Sunday, July 16, 2023

UCG No Longer Considers Itself The Only True Church?


 

Craig White posted this on his email list the other day:

This is what Vic Kubik wrote on Facebook:

 

>On Thursday July 13, 2023 Aaron and Michelle Dean and Bev and I were invited to the Church of God Seventh Day Conference held in Covington, Kentucky this year. About 1000 people were in attendance. We had dinner with Loren Stacy, President of the Church of God Seventh Day and his wife Karen as well as elder Mike Wallace. It was a wonderful evening reminiscing about our “recent” relationship going back 30 years when first visiting the COG7 Headquarters in Denver, CO and further back to the days when Herbert Armstrong fellowshipped with them. It was good to talk about their work in training ministers and leaders in their ARTIOS Christian College with a well-developed training curriculum. We also talked about evangelism and working with Young Adults where they have been successful. COG7 has 200,000 members worldwide. Wonderful evening. At the evening worship service I met many people with whom we’ve had contact with over the years.<

 

Meanwhile, in Oregon the pastor posted this:

 

>Greetings everyone - our local congregation is hosting a COG Fellowship Picnic on August 6th, 2023. This picnic is open to all COG members. 

 

We've often quipped that "we only see one another at weddings and funerals..." and this event is specifically designed to take some meaningful steps to change that. 

 

Formal invitations have been sent out to all COG Groups within Western Oregon and Southwest Washington, and I am sharing via Facebook to hopefully catch anyone we may have missed. We completely understand if the distance or the timing doesn't work - but we wanted to make the effort. 

 

We hope you will consider attending as we would love to meet you.

 

Please RSVP to Sabrina Koester at the details on the flyer before July 30th - so that we can account for food. Burgers are provided, but please bring a side, dessert or drink to share. She will provide the address when you RSVP.

 

Looking forward to seeing you there.

 

This post is public and shareable.<

 

Similar events are planned in Spokane and California!

 

And there I was persecuted over the decades for organising conferences with other groups; visiting other groups; presenting at other groups; editing for them; and having articles published by them!

 

So, good to see this is happening. After all, UCG does not see itself as the only true church and never has. Those ministers and members promoting that UCG is the only true church or the right church, our out of line. See the attached.

 

- Craig

Will they invite Grace Communion International folk? What about former members who live in the area?

Craig also included the following in pdf form:

UCG does not consider itself the only true church

Assembled by C. M. White Version 3.0

Here are official UCG policy/statements on the subject.

In other words, members may freely visit other Church of God groups (including Feasts), befriend them and give presentations at their services. And that without penalty, harassment or stopping members from giving sermons/sermonettes/serving in UCG. Vindictiveness is not a Christian attribute.

=============================

The UCG constitution, section 1.2.1 states:

"As defined in the Holy Scriptures, the Church is the Body of Christ and is greater and more inclusive than any corporate or associated organization established by human beings."

==============================

Section 1.4 "United Church of God Ministers Speaking to Other Groups" (Pastor's Policy Manual):

"We do not claim that all Christians are among our fellowship, neither do we claim to be the only organization through which God may be working. UCGIA desires, therefore, to promote unity and cooperation and to share our beliefs and teachings within the broader Church of God community."

Section 1.5 is guidelines for members of other CoG groups speaking in UCG.

Section 1.10 is about how the UCG does not consider itself the only group that God is working through.

===========================

The UCG Australia’s Constitution Preamble basically mirrors the above:

“The United Church of God – Australia recognises its congregations are part of the broader community of believers called in Scripture “The Church of God”.

While in clause 3.2.3 it states that UCG-A has power

“to prescribe to, become a member of and co-operate with or amalgamate with any other company or organisation, whether incorporated or not, whos objects are similar to those of the company” (company = UCG-A)

This can only mean that the UCG-A can merge with other Church of God groups which, in accordance with the UCG,aia and the Preamble, are regarded as part of the Body of Christ.

========================

The below is from a contact of mine who knew Herbert W Armstrong. Raymond McNair and others related similarly over the years re HWA agreeing or stating that there were indeed Christians in other groups.

About 1970 after church services I walked up to Mr HWA and asked him if there were "true Christians in [the Church of God, seventh day]." He looked at me and without hesitation or second thoughts replied affirmatively that there are. It was as if: of course there ARE, and why would you even ask.” (5 April 2021)

Note how the UCG and its President cooperating like this:

https://www.churchofgodnetwork.org/congregation-map-updated-with-specific-ucg-locations/

Why? Because we do not believe that we are the only true Church and never have. Some do, contrary to UCG teaching and belief.

However some still talk in terms of UCG as "God's Church" and while it is, their connotation is that it is the only true Church. Such a shame.

The only way we can have the right ‘checks ‘n balances’ and know exactly what the UCG teaches is for the Pastoral Manual to be online. Otherwise certain ones ignore these policies and not let us know what we really teach. Like the old WCG, certain pastors were 10x stricter than policy as we found out from other pastors or when we were able to find out the truth (eg a phone call I made to Dr Hoeh’s office in the 1980s about something). Certain pastors just don’t want us to know and what to keep us in the dark as part of their control mechanism.

As some may be aware,

page2image38387136

at the Land Between the Lakes site hosted by CGI & CEM in western

Kentucky the UCG, for the 4th year, had someone go there [2019] from UCG to build bridges

with those organisations. Apparently, Chris Rowland from MMS went there several years ago

and Aaron Dean went one year for a little while. Kevin and Rachel Kenady have gone there for 3

years in a row. This is in addition to UCG cooperation at other sites or visits to other church of

God groups by members. The UCG has never been opposed to visiting other groups and those

page3image38375072

trying to implement such a policy and claim that members are not in good standing because

page3image38383184

they do, are not functioning as a UCG employee.

======================

Notice what the Intercontinental Church of God’s Constitution and Bylaws states: >ARTICLE VIII

RELATIONSHIP WITH OTHER CHURCHES, FELLOWSHIP GROUPS, OR CORPORATE BODIES: The INTERCONTINENTAL CHURCH OF GOD is an "open arms, open door" church. Therefore, it welcomes cooperation with any other church body, insofar as such body desires. The ministry of the church shall not prohibit members of the church from attending church services with any other church, Bible study or fellowship group. However, the church will not allow guest speakers from any other churches who espouse doctrines or concepts not held by the ICG, or who engage in proselyting on behalf of any other groups. The ICG specifically welcomes the ministry and membership who are Sabbath-keepers, and who recognize their need to attend the annual Holy Days of the church, including the "Feast of Tabernacles" in the Autumn.

The INTERCONTINENTAL CHURCH OF GOD welcomes close cooperation with any independently-incorporated church groups, and does not regard an independently incorporated local church as estranged, or in competition. The ICG will not seek to bring any independently-cooperating church under its corporate documents, or under its organization or church structure. As an "open arms, open door" church, the ICG hopes that any such independently-incorporated local church will freely fellowship with the ministry and membership of the ICG; that its ministers will be invited to participate in any conferences of the ministry of the ICG; that its ministers will be invited to participate in the speaking schedule at the annual Holy Days of the church, and that its members will be welcome at any regular Sabbath service or annual Holy Day of the ICG.<

http://www.intercontinentalcog.org/constitution.php#ARTICLE_VIII

page3image38379856

 

 

26 comments:

Anonymous said...

Changing doctrines is one thing. Being deceitful about it is another. "Changes, what changes?" they said. And it is certainly not Christian.

That is why most of the old WCG ministers will forever be despised by their victims. And why we don't fall for the stuff we keep getting from the orthodox churches--who also changed from Saturday to Sunday, etc, and then rewrote history to cover it up.

Anonymous said...

All of the top leadership of the UCG were the very same ministers who kicked out WCG members who disagreed with the changes. They did this as they planned in the background to start a new church. They were deceitful vermin that continued to infect the church with malicious behavior while they maintained their paychecks in WCG till they could transfer over to UCG with no income loss.

Any unity they wish to claim back was lost during those times and by their later actions when they caused COGWA to break off. Deceitful men that are NOT led by the Holy Spirit or Christ. Since they deny both, what more can we expect?

Anonymous said...

This is a small step. The big one will finally arrive when they publicly admit that none of them is the "true" church. Oh, wait. Somebody already did that, and there was mass rebellion!

Anonymous said...

I am quite sure that serpent Gerald Weston and sinning Duggie Winnail of LCG would never come to liking their members to visit with other COGs and visit our cousins and siblings in the Lord. Any number of times when a group of former WCG'ers link up from whatever COG we are now in, say for a nice enjoyable dinner or a nice summer picnic, Weston has taken his version of a behind the scenes temper tantrum out on the members. Well, these self-appointed ministers have no say whatsoever in trying to restrict where we visit. Especially since we all knew each other in the first place and we are not divided by what we believe, but we have been divided by these various ministers themselves. I wish my LCG brethren would wake up and see things clearly, and understand that our ministers do not and should not rule over us. We are God's begotten children, not property of ministers who take themselves way too seriously. Talk about party or partisan spirit. PCG and RCG are the same as LCG, but LCG is more insidious abou tit because you have to become involed with us before you find out what our ministers are up to. So fellow LCG'ers, when you want to link up and visit and fellowship with friends from other churches, and maybe even make some new ones, feel free to do so. Do not be afraid of Weston and his bunch. Pray for them maybe, but do not let their annoyance influence how you handle this stuff. As with all these types of ministers, don't forget, if they're not at your throat they are at your feet.

Anonymous said...

They are corrupt individuals who only care about their titles and their paychecks. While they claim liberty their actions over the years show otherwise. This organization like the other splinters care not about the younger generation.

Tonto said...

"NO LONGER" ???

It never did declare itself as the only corporate "True Church"

Anonymous said...

Anonymous at 1:24 PM said...“All of the top leadership of the UCG were the very same ministers who kicked out WCG members who disagreed with the changes. They did this as they planned in the background to start a new church.”

Nothing has changed. The UCG “ministers” still welcome in and support unrepentant, unconverted unbelievers who behave very badly, while at the same time kicking out the true believers for them. Same old story.

Anonymous said...

“UCG does not consider itself the only true church”

Well, neither do I consider UCG to be the only true church.

In fact, I am not sure if UCG is even part of the true church.

Even if UCG ever was part of the true church, it might have been left behind in 2010 when COGWA split off. The godless, wicked, and deceitful UCG people might have been left behind to deceive their own selves into thinking that they are part of the true church.

Truth said...

It seems that the statement by Jesus "you will know them by their fruits", is so hard to get through some people's thick skulls. Of course there are other Christians in other churches, and for that matter, there are probably many who are not even in a physical church. God does not dwell in temples made by the hand of men. He requires that we worship him in spirit and in truth. The last time I checked, the spirit, nor the truth were subject to confinement in someone's box.

Anonymous said...

UCG absolutely DID think they were preserving the one true remnant and were the one true church. Otherwise, they could have just gone and joined up with Meredith or Flurry and any of the other crazy idiots out there. They imagined themselves as preserving the truth once delivered that the Worldwide Church of God had so freely abandoned. What they were actually doing was that they just sought to maintain the status quo they enjoyed in WCG. Preserving truth never was a real goal of theirs.

Feastgoer said...

UCG has gone back and forth on this over the years.

As I recall, even Aaron Dean was corrected about 20 years ago for getting too close to other COGs.

But groups have shared some small Feast sites in recent years. I can think of one at Kentucky Lake which had UCG, COGWA and CGI members.

Anonymous said...

For their many faults, claiming to be The One True Church was never one of them.

Anonymous said...

When COGWA split off several UCG ministers said this was a rebellion against the true church and encourage members to not join them. So, yes, the UCG has taught the one true church belief.

Anonymous said...

Logic would tell you, and I've been saying this for years, that the one true church would be an emerging super blessed one that grew in numbers, would be full of agape love, attracted media attention and street buzz, and had healings regularly occurring, and prophecies fulfilled. We have not seen this, so obviously none of the splinter groups has the right combo. (and it isn't math!)

When HWA died, it became immediately apparent that he didn't have the right combo! How did we know this??? His prophecies not only failed in 1973-75, but also the next year, and "every three to five years" thereafter. Granted, he didn't get stupid like David C. Pack, and proclaim every other day that Jesus was going to return tomorrow, but he did blame the brethren whose responsibility it was his alone to prepare, for not being ready, and therefore Jesus delaying His return.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous at 6:14 PM said...“UCG absolutely DID think they were preserving the one true remnant and were the one true church. Otherwise, they could have just gone and joined up with Meredith or Flurry and any of the other crazy idiots out there.”

Even if you are NOT the one and only true church, and even if you are NOT even a part of the true church, you still do NOT want to go with something as satanic as Gerald Flurry's PCG cult.

Anonymous said...

How do you know Tonto ? Are you a spokesperson for UCG ?

Anonymous said...

As Satanic as the PCG is, at least they got the heck out of the blatantly hypocritical and lying WCG sooner than the UCG compromosiers did.

Anonymous said...

If you claim to follow the true God, you cannot condemn others for claiming to be the true church. Neither claim can be proven.

Anonymous said...

Ok, so they're borrowing a page from the CGI playbook. Let the confusion begin.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous at 5:15 AM said...“As Satanic as the PCG is, at least they got the heck out of the blatantly hypocritical and lying WCG sooner than the UCG compromosiers did.”

Some people who did not agree with the Devil's apostate Joseph W. Tkach, Sr. nevertheless did get fooled into worshipping Satan's false prophet Gerald Flurry.

It was actually much better to stay with the Worldwide Church of God until the Great Apostasy of January 1995 rather than leave earlier to go with a satanic fraud like Gerald Flurry and his satanic imposter cult called the PCG.

Anonymous said...

Out of the FRYING PAN and into the FIRE

Some people did not agree with the massive doctrinal changes of the Devil's apostate Joseph W. Tkach, Sr., who in the Great Apostasy of January 1995 openly threw out of the Worldwide Church of God virtually everything that Herbert W. Armstrong had taught up to the time of his death in January 1986.

Nevertheless, many of these same people did get fooled into worshipping Satan's false prophet Gerald Flurry and going along with his own massive heresies that edited, changed, deleted, added to, and totally perverted Herbert W. Armstrong's major teachings. Under cover of the great confusion caused by the Devil's apostate Tkach throwing out everything that HWA had taught, Satan's false prophet Flurry was able to slip in his own massive doctrinal changes while deceitfully claiming to be holding fast to everything that HWA had taught.

From suppressing the preaching of the true gospel, to raging away against those who would not help him to do that, to wrecking families, to worshipping That Identity Thief and false prophet Gerald Flurry rather than Jesus, to going along with sexual immorality, PCG cult members will seemingly go along with just about anything now. They fled from Joseph W. Tkach, Sr. and the WCG in the past, but now fear that Gerald Flurry will kick them out of his own little satanic imposter cult and totally cut them off from their fake “friends” and even close family members in the PCG if they question anything at all that Gerald is doing.

Anonymous said...

“UCG No Longer Considers Itself The Only True Church?”

Maybe the One True Church is a very small group and UCG ain't in it.

Lake of Fire Church of God said...

Craig White Posted: "“About 1970 after church services I walked up to Mr HWA and asked him if there were "true Christians in [the Church of God, seventh day]." He looked at me and without hesitation or second thoughts replied affirmatively that there are. It was as if: of course they ARE, and why would you even ask.”

MY COMMENT - During the 1950s as the Radio Church of God was expanding and adding new stations in the USA. the Radio COG could not keep up with the growth and pump out Ambassador College graduates fast enough. So, Herbert Armstrong allowed his new converts to attend the Church of God, Seventh Day in cities and in areas where they had congregations but where Radio Church had no congregations. So Armstrong thought back in the 1950s that COG7D was part of God's true church even back then.

Armstrong also reciprocated this practice in the 1960s. When my family joined the R/WCG in the 1960s, there were a small handful of COG7D members attending my local Washington D.C. R/WCG congregation. They traveled from eastern West Virginia to Washington, D.C because when the Washington D.C. R/WCG congregation was created, it was closer for them than traveling to Salem, WV were the COG7D had a congregation (prior to R/WCG Washington D.C congregation creation, Baltimore Maryland and Richmond Virginia was a church circuit Pastored by Richard Plache).

One sidebar observation in retrospect: when Church of God, Seventh Day splintered into two groups - the Stansberry, Missouri and the Salem, Vest Virginia groups -Herbert Armstrong was named by the Salem group as one of their ministers. The two COG7D groups eventually re-united about a decade later something almost unheard of among the Armstrong COG splinters. I speculate and wonder if the Salem group recognizing Armstrong as one of its ministers is why decades later in the 1960s Armstrong would allow these West Virginia COG7D members to attend R/WCG in Washington, D.C.

As we all know, Herbert Armstrong labeled the Church of God, Seventh Day as the "dead Sardis era" through much of his ministry. With 200,000 members worldwide today. it's hard to accept HWA's characterization of COG7D as Sardis. However, Armstrong never said there weren't true Christians in COG7D.

Richard

Anonymous said...

Herbert W. Armstrong taught that the Church of God (Seventh Day) was a true era -- the Sardis era -- of the true church that did the work of God for a while, but that it was pretty dead with only a couple thousand people in the USA by the time HWA came on the scene to start the Worldwide Church of God -- the Philadelphia era of the church -- and restore about 18 major teachings that had been lost. Most people who have ever even heard of the COG(7D) probably heard of it from HWA and the WCG.

The COG(7D) still is pretty dead, with only about 5,000+ people in the USA, but likes to pretend it is alive by making up stories of how it supposedly has up to 200,000, or 300,000, or maybe even 400,000 people, somewhere around the world. I remember hearing about someone saying that the COG(7D) never did a work of its own. It just went to Seventh-Day Adventist camp meetings and put its little tracts under the windshield wipers of the cars there.

Anonymous said...

Aaron Dean seemed oblivious to how the 'other COGs' perceive him.

Anonymous said...

Sardis

Rev 3:1 “To the angel of the church in Sardis write: These are the words of him who holds the seven spirits of God and the seven stars. I know your deeds; you have a reputation of being alive, but you are dead.
Rev 3:2 Wake up! Strengthen what remains and is about to die, for I have not found your deeds complete in the sight of my God.

“The only ‘good’ she has is a good reputation, for which there is no basis. Christ’s verdict on her is devastatingly brief: in name she is alive, in fact she is dead.

“Let us make no mistake about Sardis. She is not what the world would call a dead church. Perhaps even by her sister churches she is considered “live”. Indeed, since Christ tells her to ‘wake up’, and warns her that his coming to judge her will be quite unexpected, it seems she is not aware of her real spiritual state. All regard her as a flourishing church, active, successful church - all except Christ. Her works do not in fact measure up to the standard he expects; not one of them has been ‘completed’ (verse 2, NEB). If he threatens not to confess her before God, the reason is that in spite of all her activities she is not in fact confessing him (verse 5; Mt 10:32)

“Failure to complete? Failure to confess? None would be more surprised than she herself...” (Michael Wilcock, The Message of Revelation, p.52).

“ “A name,” that is, a reputation. Sardis was famed among the churches for spiritual vitality; yet He who sees not as man seeth, pronounces her dead;... Laodicea deceived herself as to her state (v 17); but she is not mentioned as having a high name among the churches, as Sardis...” (A.R. Fausset, Revelation, JFB, Vol. 3, Pt.2, p.667).