The Living Church of God has never been able to let go of Rod Meredith's perverse obsession with Germany. Germany has been a necessary element in their prophetic utterances. From Rod Meredith's obsession over concentration camps in the United States and Canada to his lustful desires to see Americans hung up on meathooks before they were burned alive in the crematories of the camps, the obsession over Germany has controlled the minds of those in the Living Church of God for decades.
LCG is not happy that Germany is concerned over the impact of grain supplies from Ukraine not reaching Africa.
Germany to Increase Trade with Africa: German Chancellor Olaf Scholz and President Frank-Walter Steinmeier are in Africa strengthening economic ties with Nigeria, Ghana, Tanzania, and Zambia (Deutsche Welle, October 29, 2023). In the wake of the war in Ukraine, which is greatly impacting food availability and prices in Africa, and as a counter to China’s growing influence in Africa, Germany feels it imperative to improve economic relations and trade with nations in Africa. Germany is working to reform its “Compact with Africa” as German companies look for greater economic opportunities there.
This week, Chancellor Scholz met with Nigeria’s president to also talk about regional security and global events. Nigeria’s economy is seen by many as on par with Egypt’s, and it is Africa’s most populous nation. As Chancellor Scholz meets with West African leaders, President Steinmeier will meet with East African leaders. “Steinmeier’s subsequent state visit to southern Zambia on November 1 will be the first ever by a German president.”
Such investment in global trade by Germany bears watching. Bible prophecy reveals that a German-led European “beast” power will arise at the end of the age. This entity will be a religious, military, and financial superpower that will impact the world in numerous ways. The Scriptures refer to this end-time mixture of religious and worldly power as “Babylon the great” and state that the nations of the earth will become rich by trading with her before her fall (Revelation 18). Today, Germany is on the move around the globe. Watch for Germany to grow in influence, wealth, and power in the years ahead. To gain further insight about this important nation, be sure to read or listen to Germany in Prophecy.
21 comments:
Wow, that artwork is not exactly epic. Love the "drunken" head at 3 o'clock!
The article “Germany in Prophecy” contains the following statement:
“Of all the nations and peoples of the earth, modern-day Germany best fits the characteristics and prophesied role of Assyria in the last days.”
This statement is not true because it excludes one of the most important characteristics that should establish the Germans as descendants of the ancient Assyrian nation. This important characteristic is genetic continuity. One can compare ancient symbols with modern symbols and cite the statements of historians who just happened to compare the Assyrians with Nazi Germany and none of this soft “evidence” will trump the hard genetic evidence. I might accept the statement above at least as a matter of opinion if it were asserted as a literary comparison with no biological or racial implications. But if you scan the remainder of the article "Germany in Prophecy", Germans are asserted to be the modern-day genetic descendants of the ancient Assyrian nation.
The identity of the Germans is not some arcane, Gnostic knowledge. Anthropologists know who the Germans are and where they came from. There is no vacuum of knowledge that makes it possible to put forward a bunch of Herman-Hoehish arguments without cross-examination. The Germans are haplogroups R1a and R1b for the most part. They are descended from people who originated on the steppes of Russia. They were herding people - pastoralists. The earliest occurrence of haplogroup R in an excavated burial is dated to around 24,000 BP in Siberia. Germans did not originate in the Middle East just like the British people did not originate in the Middle East. Both groups are haplogroup R pastoralists from the Steppes.
This is important. Try to understand this point if you believe in the Germany-Assyria Conspiracy Theory. The article “Germany in Prophecy” is incomplete. It cannot just assert a collection of Hoehish evidence in order to have validity and credibility. It must also refute the modern genetic evidence concerning the German people to be a comprehensive theory. And it does not do this. It does not even acknowledge this great and well-established body of scientific evidence. It treats the identity of Germany as if it is hidden, Gnostic knowledge.
Have a look at the following:
https://armstrongismlibrary.blogspot.com/2022/03/germany-plans-to-rearm-will-assyria.html
https://armstrongismlibrary.blogspot.com/2022/04/germany-plans-to-rearm-part-2-nations.html
Krischan
"Wer versteht Leute, versteht die Welt"
Does this ACOG actually know what is going on? Not only is Germanys economy in decline, so is a lot of Europes. Even the German news reports this .
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=03CxYK-5Moo&pp=ygUXR2VybWFueSBlY29ub215IGRlY2xpbmU%3D
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XiuQduCNpFE&pp=ygUXR2VybWFueSBlY29ub215IGRlY2xpbmU%3D
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=52AKjXJId4Q&pp=ygUXR2VybWFueSBlY29ub215IGRlY2xpbmU%3D
The three polar superpowers right now are, USA, China and Russia. And currently Russia and China are in alliance. The LCG don’t really care about Africa, they care about BI.
Why within the internet researchers say this about the modern day Assyrians?
“ The contiguous territory that forms the traditional Assyrian homeland contains southern and southeastern Turkey, northwestern Iran, northern Iraq, and northeastern Syria”
See when it’s their BI doctrine, they like to use things like parts of the name to justify where people ended up like Dan/ Danube river.
But when it’s places like Syria, they don’t use that same logic to determine Assyria.
I thought SANTA CLAUS was the "King of the North" !
Anon 6:39:00 AM PST
The article ‘German in prophecy’ contains the following statement:
‘Of all the nations and peoples of the earth, modern day Germany best fits the characteristics and prophesied role of Assyria in the last days’.
I have no doubt scholars and historians would be reeling at this irrationality and intellectual sloppiness. The above statement would have them running for the hills and have them in wonder at its authorship and their disconnect from reality and sanity. And this is precisely why this movement, Armstrongism is heading towards extinction. The shear incompetence and intellectual sloppiness of what passes as ‘truth’ in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary is astounding.
6:39 writes:
“The article ‘German in prophecy’ contains the following statement:
‘Of all the nations and peoples of the earth, modern day Germany best fits the characteristics and prophesied role of Assyria in the last days’.
“I have no doubt scholars and historians would be reeling at this irrationality and intellectual sloppiness. The above statement would have them running for the hills and have them in wonder at its authorship and their disconnect from reality and sanity.
Part 1
John Oswalt sees some likeness between Assyria and Nazi Germany; see below, I have taken these quotes from the NIVAC instead of his two volume in the NICOT.
Oswalt earned his B.A. at Taylor University. He further earned a B.D. and Th.M. from Asbury Theological Seminary and a M.A. and Ph.D. from Brandeis University...
Dr. Oswalt has been the distinguished professor of Old Testament at Asbury Theological Seminary for many years. Dr. Oswalt was president of Asbury College from 1983 to 1986.
He is the author of 11 books, most notable of which is the two-volume commentary on the book of Isaiah in the New International Commentary of the Old Testament. His most recent book is The Holy One of Israel: Studies in the Book of Isaiah, released in 2014. He has also written numerous articles that have appeared in Bible encyclopedias, scholarly journals and popular religious periodicals.
Typology: Assyria and Nazi Germany
Isa 8:7 Now therefore, behold, the Lord bringeth up upon them the waters of the river, strong and many, even the king of Assyria [Tiglath-pilser III?], and all his glory:...
Isa 8:8 And he [Sennacherib] shall pass through Judah; he shall overflow and go over, he shall reach even to the neck;...
Da 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
"The use of the Euphrates as the metaphor here is very satisfying for two reasons. Assyria came from across the Euphrates; it was a mighty river compared to anything the Israelites had seen in their territory; its floods are swift and devastating. So was Assyria. Like Germany in 1939 and 1940, the Assyrians seemed almost superhuman. They could strike anywhere, it seemed, with speed and power. The majesty of these massive armies must have been stunning in itself" (John N. Oswalt, The Book of Isaiah - Chapters 1-39, NICOT, p.227)
Whether the prophecy of Isa 8:7-8 was a two-part fulfilment (i.e., telescopic), first by Tiglath-pilser and later by Sennacherib; or a single fulfilment by Sennacherib, depending on how the people's reaction and time frame in verse 6 is to be understood, Ahaz's 'alliance' with Assyria would turn out disastrous for his son Hezekiah.
"But such rejoicing will be short lived. Although God's help seems like nothing but a spring while Assyria looks like a great river, that river can quickly "overflow its ... banks," and the edges ("channels") of its floodwaters will reach to the farthest corners of the land. Of course, this is exactly what happened some thirty years later when the Assyrian king Sennacherib came against Judah (Isa. 36-37). Any alliance with Assyria was like an alliance with Nazi Germany. They were simply waiting for the day when they could take you too, as Stalin learned to his chagrin in 1941" (John N. Oswalt, Isaiah, NIVAC, p.150).
Isa 10:6 I will send him against an hypocritical nation, and against the people of my wrath will I give him a charge, to take the spoil, and to take the prey, and to tread them down like the mire of the streets
Isa 10:7 Howbeit he meaneth not so, neither doth his heart think so; but it is in his heart to destroy and cut off nations not a few.
"Any nation that attempts to put itself in the place of God cannot survive...
Part 2
[an] example in the lifetime of many of us that must not be overlooked... is Nazi Germany. The parallel to what Isaiah is talking about here is startling enough that many do not like to bring it up. By the fact is that the Holocaust may well be seen as a modern parallel to the Exile. Then, as now, a mighty power set itself to destroy the people of God. In the case of Assyria and Babylon, they were allowed to succeed to the extent they did only because God permitted it as a source of discipline and punishment for the unbelief of those people. May this perhaps be the case with Nazi Germany? Yet if Germany was a tool in the hand of God, it certainly did not see itself as such. Like Babylon and Assyria, it saw itself as supreme in itself, with the power and therefore the right to destroy whomever it wished. But like Assyria and Babylon, Germany was terribly destroyed and God's Jewish people not only survive but prospered. No nation can set itself up as superior to god and survive" (John N. Oswalt, Isaiah, NIVAC, p.181).
"With the possible exception of the Huns, or the wild hordes of Tamerlane, there has probably never existed, in the history of the world, a power so purely and solely destructive, so utterly devoid of the slightest desire to make any real contribution to the welfare of the human race, as Assyria. But the Huns and the hordes of Tamerlane were untaught savages. In the case of Assyria you have A HIGHLY ORGANIZED AND CIVILIZED PEOPLE, SKILLED TO AN ASTOUNDING DEGREE IN THE ARTS... If you can imagine a man with no small amount of learning, with all the externals of civilization, with a fine taste in certain aspects of art, and a tremendous aptitude for organization and discipline, and then imagine such a man imbued with the ruthless spirit of a Red Indian brave and an absolute delight in witnessing the most ghastly forms of human suffering, you will have a fairly accurate conception of the ordinary Assyrian... the outside, a splendid specimen of highly developed humanity the inside a mere ravening tiger" (James Baikie, Lands and Peoples of the Bible, (New York: MacMillian Company, 1923), p.97).
"Other regimes had perpetrated mass murder... Even more people were murdered for political reasons in Stalin's Soviet Union; and many aspects of life and death in the Nazi concentration camps - especially the vile sadism of the lower ranks - clearly had their analogues in the Gulag. More people would perish as a result Mao's tyranny in China. Yet there was something qualitatively different about the Nazis' war against the Jews and the other unfortunate minorities they considered to be 'unworthy of life'. IT WAS THE FACT THAT IT WAS CARRIED OUT BY SUCH A WELL-EDUCATED PEOPLE, THE PRODUCTS OF WHAT HAD BEEN, AT LEAST UNTIL 1933, ONE OF THE MOST ADVANCED EDUCATIONAL SYSTEMS IN THE WORLD. It was the fact that it was perpetrated under the leadership of a man who had come to power by primarily democratic means. The Nazi death machine worked economically, scientifically and euphemistically. In a word, it was very, very modern... The overwhelming impression is of professionals turned into psychopaths..." (Niall Ferguson, The War of the Worlds, (New York: The Penguin Press, 2006), pp.508-09).
As aside: “Rereading history books and the testimony of those who experienced the transition from the Taisho democracy of the 1920s to the militarism of the 1930s, I marvel at how quickly a society with give-and-take politics, a strong labour movement, active and contentious writers and intellectuals, and an urban populace with a jazzy pop culture could be transformed into a nation in armour” (Frank Gibney, Reinventing Japan...Again, Foreign Policy, Summer 2000, p.80).
Anon 4:32:00 + 4:31:00
John Oswald is quire correct in comparing the ancient Assyrians and their barbarism and savagery with the German nation under National Socialism i:e the Nazism.
It is a warning to us all that devilish evil can arise from the most culturally successful and prosperous and democratic nation states of all time. Many others do indeed in the horror they inflicted on their fellow humans, easily meet the savage criteria of Nazi Germany and the Assyrians. Pol Pot’s Cambodia for example. North Korea past and present, the hell of the red terror in Ethiopia in the 1970s and 80s.
The list is endless.
That however does not affirm Germanys ancient roots sprang from Assyria.
It is rather far fetched to suggest so. And a simple historical search reveals surprising results which point away from this astonishing claim from the Armstrong movement.
National Socialism, Fascism have their roots in the far left, and with its sister communism, represent two incarnations of the same coin of totalitarianism. The death camps of Nazi Germany and the Soviet gulag were entirely products of the same totalitarian structures. Nazism and communism are closely related, abet historical competitors who used the same ‘products’ to dominate their respective populations.
Herbert, Roderick & Flurry have shoveled out SO many krapp articles over the decades that take just everyday events in Germany and then tried to force square pegs into round holes to show that is going to fulfil their prophecy. So far they all are batting a thousand...ALL WRONG!!!!
As I recall, much was made of the German Slavs in East Germany and Prussia when the reunification of Germany occurred. I think the ACOGs just let that little tidbit float over everyone's heads. No way are Slavs Assyrian!
Is there any way to know if the very sensible postings from anon 5:31, anon 4:32 & anon 4:31 came from a COG person? Or if the person(s) could anonymously share here which particular COG they personally prefer or are active in?
Such valuable lessons they offered here, could shed light on the puzzling teeter-totter volleyball game we visitors to this Banned/HWA site grapple with...of which side has more truth : the anti-HWA folk, or the pro-HWA folk?
Part 1, 4:31
The Assyrians might be compared to the Nazis, Stalinist and other militaristic and absolutist movements. While this comparison would have some ideological merit, it does not prove that the Germans are genetic descendents of the ancient Assyrians. This is what Anonymous 12:55 is asserting.
Some other interesting micro-facts:
- The ancient Assyrians did not even look like modern Europeans. They had extremely curly, dark hair and beards. They depict themselves as all having dark hair - as Middle Eastern people would. You can look at their wall carvings of themselves in archaeology books. I wondered if the coloring in books on archaeology was accurate. I recall that I discovered that some of the pigment survived on the wall carvings so that modern renderings could be made. But I cannot vouch for the degree of accuracy.
- Adolf Hitler was y chromosome haplogroup E. This is a North African haplogroup. We might draw a more appropriate paraellel between the ancient Egyptians under Pharaoh and Germany under Hitler.
- The Germans tend to be y chromosome haplogroup R1b in the west, like the Brits and other Northwest Europeans. They tend to be haplogroup R1b in the east, like the Slavs. So why were the Germans so different from the surrounding nations back in the time of WW2? The OT states that different nations are ruled by different spirits. Perhaps, this is the source of the difference - not a simple racial connection.
- Literary comparisons can make the Germans, in one period of their history, like the Assyrians but it does not make them the descendents of the Assyrians. Irwin Shaw wrote a novel called "The Young Lions" that dealt with the rise of Nazi Germany and WW2. In the beginning of the book he cites Nahum and gets the title from a passage there. In the realm of Hoehish historical interpretation, we might attach great significance to Shaw's equating the Germans to the Assyrians. But, alas, it is just literature and not anthropology. To think it meaningful is to use fantasy to support fantasy.
- Has it ever occurred to anyone that the Armstrongist view of the Assyrians has a strong racist element to it? The view trades in the stereotype of the militaristic, cruel German.
- There are a group of people in the Middle East that are identified as the modern descendants of the Assyrians. They are a diverse lot genetically. The data I have seen indicates that the ancient Assyrians were haplogroup J. This comports with the clans of Noah genealogy in Genesis 10 which lists Ashur. All those people had to be the same haplogroup. They all had Noah's haplogroup.
- In the book of Jonah, the Assyrians repent and are forgiven by God. Jonah got angry. The book indicates that God has mercy on other people besides Israel, even the much hated Assyrian enemies of Israel. God is not the God of just Israel but of all people. And he cares about the Gentiles. This characterizes God much differnetly than what he is in the books of the Deuteronomic History.
Krischan
Yes, Assyrian official art... I joke that its obsessed with projecting machismo. Big curly and very long beards, haughty expressions, heroic poses. In scenes of mixed peoples, the Assyrians are usually taller and physically more built than the foreigners. Now this isnt totally unique in art from around the world by any means (everyone wants to be the "golden" people), but it is distinctive.
Now, if you asked me just on the strength of that who their art most resembles, I wouldnt pick Germany.
Modern Assyrians
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tCDZCBBryZY&pp=ygUUbW9kZXJuIGRheSBhc3N5cmlhbnM%3D
What if the Assyrian comes from some place else like in one of those Middle East countries instead.?
Micah 5:5 And this One shall be peace. When the Assyrian comes into our land, And when he treads in our palaces,
Then we will raise against him Seven shepherds and eight princely men.
The princely men or princes are associated with the leaders of Arabia.
"Has it ever occurred to anyone that the Armstrongist view of the Assyrians has a strong racist element to it? The view trades in the stereotype of the militaristic, cruel German."
It sure does!!!
John 7:24 Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment.”
The Way of Jesus is so much better!!!!
I mean many kinds of atrocities have occurred down through history, Such As Belgium's Leopold II killing about 10 million people from the Congo. He's just as bad as Hitler.
* factsanddetails.com/world/cat56/sub402/entry-6041.html:
The Assyrians are regarded as the first true hair stylists. Their prowess at cutting, curling, dying and layering hair was admired by other civilizations on the Middle East. Hair and beards were oiled, tinted and perfumed. The long hair of women and the long beards of men were cut in symmetrical geometrical shapes and curling by slaves with curl bars (fire-hearted iron bars).
The Sumerians and Assyrians as well as Egyptians, Cretans, Persians and Greeks all wore wigs. In Assyria, hairstyles often defined status, occupation and income level. During important proceeding high-raking Assyrian women sometimes donned fake beards to show they commanded the same authority as men. Queen Hatshepsut, one of the few female pharaohs of Egypt, did the same thing.
* blog.sciencemuseum.org.uk:
We only have to look at paintings and carvings from the ancient world to see that having curls was a fashion that crossed many cultures. Babylonian and Assyrian men dyed their hair and square beards black, then crimped and curled them with basic curling irons.
[“Born a natural blonde [with blue-eyes], Elvis Presley began dying his hair black from a very early age...” (Elvis’ Obsession With Having Jet-Black Hair, lassiccountrymusic.com)].
* myhairdressers.com:
Assyrian kings and nobility around 1500 BC liked curly hair. To achieve the look, they had their hair curled with iron bars heated in a fire, starting a trend that lasts today – albeit a little more safely...
Lice were a major problem during the Enlightenment, so men would shave their heads and wear wigs instead.
In the 18th Century the predominant style was for the wig to be as white as possible. If you were poor, this meant adding copious amounts of flour to the wig. The rich would use a combination of starch and pleasant smelling oils such as lavender.
Lloyd Lewellyn-Jones, "King and Court in Ancient Persia 559 to 331 BCE, 2013, pp.58-59:
“Their can be little doubt that Achaemenid kings and courtiers wore wigs and false hair pieces and their images at Persepolis and other palace sites certainly suggest that false tresses could be plaited into natural hair and beards...
“In the ancient world, hair and beards were highly significant and were surrounded by rituals and symbolical undertones... [My note: Did curls have their own symbolically significance].
“Egyptian pharoah’s had an age-old tradition of wearing carefully dressed wigs and neo-Assyrian monarchs took extreme care with the plaiting, braiding, and ringletting of their hair and beards into elaborate coiffures (see Madhloom 1970: 83-89; and images in Dayagi-Mendes 1989:66-7; Bahrani 2002) and it was the fashion which was whole-heartedly adopted by the Achaemenid rulers, who carefully had themselves depicted in the artworks with every curl and wave of hair clearly delineated. In reality, the hair and the beard were carefully dressed by skilled hairdressers, who twisted the curls into shape and fixed them into position by the use of perfumed oil, which helped control the hair, in addition to keeping it shiny and fragrant...
“A full, well set, fragranced beard was a sign of manhood and a source of pride for Persian men. It was the ornament of their machismo. In Near Eastern cultures the beard was symbolically loaded... Not surprisingly then, given the close association between the beard and physical power and martial ability, the Great King was depicted with the most impressive beard of all; it far outstripped his courtiers in terms of length, fulness, and elaboration and it clearly demarcated him as the Empire’s alpha male...”.
Compare also: “A periwig had to have curls or at least waves. By the 1670's the style favoured was long rows of corkscrew curls... At some point it became fashionable to powder it more white... (thisisversaillesmadame.blogspot.com/2017/02/the-periwig.html).
Perhaps, like Elvis, Sennacherib dyed his hair black.
I also think that if we're going to locate "the ancient Assyrians" based on such vague similarities as "they once had a brutal war culture", you could easily make the case that pretty much any nation in the world is "Assyria".
Well, that might be the first time I ever saw Elvis Presley and Sennacherib in the same sentence!
"We only have to look at paintings and carvings from the ancient world to see that having curls was a fashion that crossed many cultures. Babylonian and Assyrian men dyed their hair and square beards black, then crimped and curled them with basic curling irons."
Well, err, people in the Middle East already have curly, dark hair. Why would they have to affect this? I think the point is that you think the Assyrians were really light pigmented Germans and used cosmetic methods to look that way they depicted themselves on ancient wall carvings. While this is the kind of sleight of hand that Hoeh would have used back in the 1950s, it doesn't fly now. We have the analysis of ancient genomes that can inform us more accurately. The Assyrians were haplogroup J and looked like other Middle Eastern, unmixed members of that haplogroup.
Krischan
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