From the Unfundamentalist Facebook page.
For those recovering from fundamentalism.
What are your thoughts?
Did the constant reminders of losing your salvation for some indiscretion that was taught in Armstrongism lead to moral reasoning and ethical behavior?
34 comments:
I just stumbled across this. Since Herb loved to use this expression, I thought it worth cutting and pasting.
4) “You just don’t get it”
This phrase is a classic maneuver in the narcissist’s playbook.
When they claim, “You just don’t get it,” they’re subtly suggesting that you lack the intelligence or insight to grasp their supposedly superior perspective.
In reality, they’re brushing off your opinion or feelings, refusing to engage in a genuine dialogue or acknowledge the validity of your viewpoint.
If you ever find yourself on the receiving end of this phrase, remember it’s merely a tactic to assert control and maintain their sense of superiority in the conversation.
This site is mentally ill.
I am curious about HWA's classic remark "You just don't get it".
When, why and how did this remark come about? Could someone shares articles or speeches on this phrase?
Yes, it led me to totally avoid my Dad's womanizing, carousing, cig. smoking, & dishonesty in business.
The WCG showed me that my Dad's resurrection judgement could be different than mine if I adhered to more healthy lifestyle.
But years later when I saw many corrupt ministers & game-playing members & scams & Meredith's lack of concern at boating tragedies & that stupid teethy grin he had presiding over LCG & I read about Terry Ratzmann & then Steve Allwine of UCG... & GTA chasing that poor nurse, I remember how ticked off Dad was at my Plain Truth mags. & how he sneered at my suit & tie each Sat. Maybe he wasn't as worthless as I once thought.
Fact is Armstrong did not get it. Not the other way around. The more one thinks on it the realization deepens just how really self indulging and uncaring this person really was. He looked upon sincere believers as dumb sheep and that he had the license to do anything he wanted (whilst in the process rewarding himself with a million dollar pay check).
I remember how ticked off Dad was at my Plain Truth mags. & how he sneered at my suit & tie each Sat. Maybe he wasn't as worthless as I once thought.>>>
parents saw right through it and it was a scam, but we in our deluded state thought we had found the one true church. Which it never was or is. We can look back respecting parents and forgiving them and 0urselves.
Title reads weird.
Evidence of this accusation?
I am curious about HWA's classic remark "You just don't get it".
did a search in the Armstrong library and could not find
This site is mentally ill. Anon
If one really thinks all who post to his site are mentally ill advisable I think for you not to visit?
I was telling people back in the late 1970s that I didn't start learning about the ethical treatment of other people until after having left the WCG.
First of all, we had a horrible double standard. Members were taught to treat people who were in the church one way, and the people who were not in another way. Non members were to be held at arms length. If they were experiencing hard times, well hey! You just don't help the people whom God is punishing, now do you? See an accident on the way to sabbath services? Check and see if the people are church members. If not, well which is more important? Being on time for sabbath services, or helping people who aren't having their chance now, and don't even know or care about the sabbath. And, never, ever give the spare change in your pocket that could have been sent into Pasadena to a "bum" who asks for some help, Anyone see a problem here? This calloused behavior towards "others" is not something you can turn off and on! If your mind is programmed to find excuses not to help needy people in "the world", you will also find excuses not to help the lesser of your brethren. And, a lot of your criteria will be based on the keeping of the law. You know the outsiders aren't keeping it, and you apply the same standard to brethren whom you consider to be slackers. Family? Water is thicker than blood in Armstrongism! You simply don't build relationships with unconverted family members. They'll get their chance and your love as you mentor to them in the Second Rez!
Human nature really is a mix of good and bad. That's not just an Armstrong shibboleth. My problem with Armstrongism as a practical philosophy is that it kills, rather than enhances, those innate good parts. Parents who were raised by caregiver or empathetic type parents had those qualities killed off soon after becoming members. Administering to their children's emotional needs was unimportant. The only important thing in a WCG family was "the law". Children were punished most severely when their behavior interfered with the parents or surrounding brethren's ability to practice the tenets of Armstrongism. That's what blanket training was all about. It's natural for children to act out when they don't feel the love and security that most normal parents offer as the good qualities of their own nature. An angry household triggers anger and criminal instincts in some children, and a stifled existence of introversion in others
It's just so ridiculous that we even have to discuss this with currently practicing Armstrongites! This is one thing that should be perfectly obvious to anyone capable of breathing. I did learn much better ethics, and am very conscious about how I treat others. But it took years to get here. The problem is that HWA's church killed many of the natural emotions which spawn kind and ethical treatment. To this day, those are lost to me. Fortunately we can act out correct learned patterns, having arrived at them by logic and trial-error. But it is sooo much better not to have had the causative emotions killed by one's alleged spiritual guides in the first place. How can those who aspire to be spiritual guides do and teach such horrible things???
BB
During the 1970s and 80s, on many occasions I heard members say something like "as HWA said, people just don't get it."
It didn't take much Googling to find the following:
"The Elijah Work Continues
Carrying on the work of Herbert W. Armstrong
By Gerald Flurry • January 1993
"Near the end of his life, Mr. Armstrong said to the wcg members, “I believe most of you just don’t get it!” He felt most of the Church members were not with him spiritually."
Looking back, I think the general negativity that accompanied worldwide/ HWA message really affected people in a negative way. I know my father suffered in the way he made major life decisions because he always believed that the Great Tribulation was about to start. I remember being on church and seeing people lined up to speak to our local minister and one woman asking the local minister (I believe it was Ken Smyley) what type of hair style she should allow her son to have. It was weird because i was about 18 and had let my hair grow out a little and wouldn't let my father force me to get a haircut every 2 weeks like he had used to do.
Here is a description of someone, can you guess who it is?
Never would admit to being wrong or repent of anything.
Would manipulate others to obtain wealth.
Lived a lavish and hypocritical lifestyle.
Pretended to be a workaholic while staling ideas of others while falsely attributing these ideas to God.
Relied on others to do most of the work, always choosing the easy way out.
Was not self-sacrificing but self-grasping.
Used position and status to benefit self.
Pretended to be a spiritual giant.
Who is being described here? No, not HWA. It is Ellen G. White. This description is found on page 174 of Steve Daily’s book, Ellen G. White, A Psychobiography.
There are careers that attract a certain type of person. Narcissists are commonly found in the field of religion.
Here is a description of someone, can you guess who it is?
Never would admit to being wrong or repent of anything.
Would manipulate others to obtain wealth.
Lived a lavish and hypocritical lifestyle.
Pretended to be a workaholic while staling ideas of others while falsely attributing these ideas to God.
Relied on others to do most of the work, always choosing the easy way out.
Was not self-sacrificing but self-grasping.
Used position and status to benefit self.
Pretended to be a spiritual giant.
Who is being described here? No, not HWA. It is Ellen G. White. This description is found on page 174 of Steve Daily’s book, Ellen G. White, A Psychobiography.
There are careers that attract a certain type of person. Narcissists are commonly found in the field of religion.
How would I know? I was born into it.
It's very interesting. For many years I have said that Armstrongism at least got me into the Bible. But, I really began attending at a time when that would have been my next step anyway.
I was 12. In my life I had a strong faith in God and wanted to please Him. I prayed to Him and read children's bibles and knew the great accounts of those in the Bible. Our home encouraged prayer and ethical caring behavior. I often would talk to and try to encourage the "weird kid" and defend them from bullying.
At that time, I had already had a relationship with God. Armstrongism did not bring me to that. In fact, it was my naive love and desire to please God that allowed Armstrongism to influence me when it creeped into our family. It told me "This is the real way to please God"; well, I certainly wanted to do that. And, because our family only marginally attended mainstream church services while growing up, I only had the fine examples of those Christians in my extended family to point to when I was first being taught that only those in the Worldwide Church of God are real Christians. And, I did resist it for a time, but I was no match for adults and I began viewing myself as special and different from my classmates. And, that difference only grew as I declined playing or going to football games and other parties (which in some instances I recognize as for the better but not in most instances). I was gone for feasts and holy days and though a good student, it didn't help my grades and classmates did think it was strange.
I stopped talking about God with classmates too as we would occasionally do before Armstrongism. I came to believe many of these fine classmates were just not called and could not get it. I was liked well enough with some exceptions and those exceptions were based on my not engaging socially with the class. They just didn't get it or me. It didn't have to be that way, but it was. Though having a goodly share of ability, I got depressed for a period my first year in WCG. Services were always about very heavy things. Very negative. The only hope was in a future Christ and at this time we simply had to obey and do right. I wonder whether not having that negativity and instead having the hope we have now in Christ would have made a difference for me then. No matter. I did not stay depressed, but from that time I did become a sadder but not wiser (at the time) young man. Less hope and less goals/planning. Less of a relationship with extended family who were Christian and fine people, but I could no longer see that...they were deceived.
While I won't belabor it, it was finally my exposure to the love, generosity, and hopeful strength of many fine non-COG Christians that began to wake me out of the Armstrong trance. That, and learning of Herbert Armstrong's sins and hypocrisy (true hypocrisy, not just weakness).
My relationship with the Lord (and my once neglected extended family) is much better now and I enjoy the peace we have in Christ today without having to focus my hope only on a future Christ and Kingdom. And, yes, I like many non-COG Christians recognize that Christ will come again, but we are thankful He is currently our Lord. That is the Gospel the Worlwide Church of God failed to preach.
HWA was one of the most negative people I've ever encountered. He always spoke down to his "dumb sheep". In order for them to even be dumb sheep he had to destroy their trust in all of "this world's" institutions and practices, and get them to single source their trust and obedience with him and his church.
"You just don't get it!" was one of his manipulative little sayings. It meant you were not truly part of his elitist little group and might end up in the Trib.
Only one to two percent of people could read or write in Christ's day, so calling people sheep had some merit. But today, a quarter of the population in western countries has a university degree, so calling them sheep doesn't make sense.
In my dealings with Herb's ministers, I felt that I was talking to teenagers rather than adults, plus I felt that I should be counseling them rather than them counseling me.
Don't most ministers (including COGs) preach that you CAN'T overcome sin on your own... without the power of the Holy Spirit, which Pentecost will mark?
Anon, Thursday, May 16, 2024 at 2:01:00 AM PDT, said:
"It didn't take much Googling to find the following:
"The Elijah Work Continues Carrying on the work of Herbert W. Armstrong
By Gerald Flurry • January 1993
"Near the end of his life, Mr. Armstrong said to the wcg members, “I believe most of you just don’t get it!” He felt most of the Church members were not with him spiritually."
******
During my 25 years as part of the former WCG organization I have heard HWA say the phrase: "Most of you just don’t get it," or words similar.
It was a sort of "blame and judge" others attitude; however, we know that there were people among us who strived to live a decent way of life, with somewhat of a sound mind about things relative to HWA's "milk" of knowledge about the Sabbath, the law, unclean/clean meats, Holydays, etc. Most of the prophecy, and a lot of it based on that satanic "Beast Chart" in the booklet "Who Is The Beast" was just plain junk food. Hirelings from the former WCG still preach about prophecy based on it, preach a 3rd resurrection (while the Bible is very clear about only two), another Jesus to return "very soon" to reign 1,000 years on earth and then fail due to Satan exiting some pit and stirring up the world against Jerusalem to mess it up again, but how could Satan succeed with doing such a thing is the real Jesus Christ were there? The four corners of the world will be messed up.
And where are those hirelings of the former WCG today? Scattered worldwide, all divided, seemingly without a sound mind in some cases, some thinking they are one of the two witnesses of God!
What do I think now?
When HWA said things like, "Most of you just don’t get it," he may very well have been saying it to the hirelings of the WCG. Weren't they all part of his audience too? Of course!
Didn't HWA say some were like vultures, or some other flesh-eating birds, just waiting for him to die. They thought they could do a better job than was done with him, but where are they today? I mean; those alive: not the dead ones!
They are involved in either organized confusion, or unorganized confusion.
And Flurry thinks he is continuing "the Elijah Work;" however, God completed "the Elijah Work" that He purposed in Elijah during his lifetime.
The disciples wondered and asked Jesus why some scribes said that Elijah "must come first?"
Then, Jesus answered and said unto His disciples: "...Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things." Matthew 17:10
Jesus elaborated further to His disciples, whom He knew "weren't getting it," by saying: "...That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them."
Was Jesus' reply sufficient? Apparently, it was because the disciples understood what G Flurry still does not understand today:
Matthew 17:13 "Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist."
Case closed!
But G Flurry said that HWA "...felt most of the Church members were not with him spiritually..."
No, it is G Flurry that feels that way, and agrees with that judge/blame attitude. And guess what?
G Flurry still doesn't get it with his statement of: "The Elijah Work Continues Carrying on the work of Herbert W. Armstrong."
Whatever work God did with/through HWA is done, over. HWA is dead. Joe Tkach Sr. was his replacement and promised to walk in the footsteps of HWA; Joe did that and walked backwards in those footsteps...back into Protestantism, lukewarmness, etc. like a laodicean leader would.
G Flurry still cannot identify who the beast is, and virtually all of his prophecies are false. What moral reasoning and ethical behavior is evident in any of what has been done in G Flurry's life and man-made organization?
Time will tell...
John
At least to me, whenever Armstrong said "some of you just don't get it" I actually felt that I did get it. Though caught up in Armstrongism, there was the feeling and belief which I had before Armstrongism and I never felt removed from God. And while I was a true Armstrong believer, for some reason I had fleeting thoughts that something was off with Armstrong himself and that maybe he was one that didn't get it. Hearing Armstrong say this, I would wonder, "why don't some get it?" "Are you (HWA) not teaching it well, and if not, then maybe you aren't inspired?" "Can you define what isn't being gotten?"
Later, I learned more about HWA, and maybe that helps explain why I occasionally perceived something was off with HWA. But, generally I believed what he said.
All this to say that HWA's "You're just not getting it" may well have begun my seeing Armstrongism for what it was. I mean, if as he said "half of you aren't getting it", then something serious is wrong with "The Church" such that it diminished my respect for the Church and I began to reason that the people in the Church obviously have flaws and may be false Christians. But based on what? It seemed Armstrong's reasoning was nebulous and it was given as a pronouncement, and I required more explanation than that. Pronouncements began to not fly with me, I questioned that if this pronouncement can't be explained and justified then maybe other pronouncements couldn't be. Maybe an obviously troubled Church having up to half that "didn't get it" was no more correct than other churches.
But, I stayed for far too long nevertheless.
I believe the simple truth understood that one is "born right the first time", can avoid all the musts and shoulds, overcoming and becoming "perfect like your heavenly father is perfect" (or "mature"...whatever) and associated stress and failures to do so that go with the expectations.
Dennis,
If you believe "that one is "born right the first time", you obviously haven't met my sister and brother-in-law.
Anon, Thursday, May 16, 2024 at 11:30:00 PM PDT, said:
"...At least to me, whenever Armstrong said "some of you just don't get it" I actually felt that I did get it...And while I was a true Armstrong believer, for some reason I had fleeting thoughts...Later, I learned more about HWA, and maybe that helps explain why I occasionally perceived something was off with HWA. But, generally I believed what he said..."
******
One thing HWA often said was: "Don't believe me; believe your Bible."
Now, Anon, did you believe those words spoken by HWA? Prove all things; keep the good, we were told. The Bible, when the mis-translations are removed, and we have a pure language in that time specified as "the eighth day," we may come to understand a Book that is going to last forever, but time will tell. Will the Bible be a "Forever Book?" Time will tell, but parts of it, as most of us know, are messed up by the satanic translators.
You wrote: "...But, I stayed for far too long nevertheless..."
Perhaps you didn't stay too long. We were all virtually scattered at one time or another. Is Revelation 3 coming to pass as God so foretold? Time will tell.
Dennis, Friday, May 17, 2024 at 6:56:00 AM PDT, wrote: "...I believe the simple truth understood that one is "born right the first time"..."
That was an interesting thought. I might say: "One who has been born will live again."
We've all sinned. We've all earned the wages of death, which has been appointed once for each of us. What's the problem? We're all learning about good and evil, and learning to hate evil. I didn't say to hate people, or even to hate Satan.
God is working out a long-range plan to save all Israel, all humanity, and subsequently destroy Satan and his angels. Did HWA tell us to believe that? No. He didn't know; he understand a different plan.
All who are born experience crying, tears, pain, sorrow, eventually death, but then what?
Believe what HWA said? Or, believe what the Bible said? Well, to be specific let's just look at what Jeremiah said?
"Heal me, O LORD, and I shall be healed; save me, and I shall be saved: for thou [art] my praise." Jeremiah 17:14
Which LORD is that? The Word? Jesus Christ? No, and no.
Luke 20:37 "Now that the dead are raised, even Moses shewed at the bush, when he calleth the Lord the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.
:38 For he is not a God of the dead, but of the living: for all live unto him."
That is the One we know as God, The God, God the Father, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob!
Oh, and He has a Son, that HWA taught was the "God of the Old Testament," but he didn't know that was an error. HWA taught what he understood.
"The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus;..." Acts 3:13
Who do you believe? HWA? Armstrongism? The Bible?
To be continued…
John
Continuing…
Each of us has had the opportunity to learn about spiritual milk, junk food and strong meat to one degree or another. After 25 years I left the WCG organization in 1995. Was that too early or late? Did it matter to the LORD? Is the LORD aware of what's happening on this earth since the days of the Garden of Eden? Did you stay too long, or just the right amount? What's a bottom line?
I would say that those sealed firstfruits that compose God's Church being built over the past approximately 2,000 years have been "born right the first time," or perhaps better to say they were begotten at the right time. It's God's Church. It wasn't the WCG organization, as you very well know. Were their names already written in the Lamb's Book of Life? God knows. Is God great enough that He might also know every other human being too, but He must continue working His Plan. God wants a big family. Does He really have unconditional love for each of us. Time will tell.
I believe the Bible says: "One who has been born will live again."
And if that is true, then will that LORD of Luke 20, the God of the living, eventually, in accordance with His (not HWA's) perfect Plan of "good news" really heal and save every human being as Jeremiah 17:14 in the Bible said? Is it possible that people prayers for “good news” may eventually be answered, not in accordance with our wills, but in accordance with His Will being done, and for each man/woman in his/her own order as God has so chosen?
Time will tell...
John
"One thing HWA often said was: "Don't believe me; believe your Bible."
Many Christian denominations say that as well. However, "believe your bible" is often code for believing the bible as interpreted by that group. In the case of HWA, he says that when talking to outsiders or prospective members, but once in the church, the new member is expected to blindly believe their minister. This bait-and-switch is the outer/inner face that's common in all cults.
I have a problem with "born right the first time." Some time ago, decades ago, I found myself taking serious introspection. I had identified some seriously defective personal traits which had been with me long term. I wanted to pinpoint where they came from, and to get rid of them, or improve upon them, which ever was possible. Some of them, I could definitely lay at the feet of Herbert W. Armstrong and his church. However, that didn't go deep enough to suit me, because to be honest, it's really quite superficial to blame all of our problems on the cult. Besides, not only did I find that there were some leftovers, I also realized that I had also picked up a couple of really good traits from the old WCG, such as my work ethic, the way I manage money, and a sort of ascetic, gladiatorial attitude.when faced with difficult situations.
As I went deeper and deeper into the past, I traced some of my undesirable attributes to people I knew and admired in school and in the neighborhood, and at even younger ages, to somewhat flamboyant family members who left deep impressions. But, my work was not done yet. There were traits, drives, emotions which, if memory serves correctly, were already alive and accounted for in my earliest memories. I had to reconcile myself to the fact that I was by no means tabula rasa at birth. There was a basic, flawed framework which filtered my entire outlook and my way of dealing with life. These were not due to experiences. They were always there. They were the nature with which I was born.
I honestly believe that there are people we could probably describe as having been born right the first time. Empaths, sense of fairness, consistent without being obsessive, no proclivities towards destructive habits, strong intelligence, a desire to make the world a better place. Ones who defend the helpless. The laws of probability suggest that there must be people who have higher percentages of these good traits. We know that most societal ills are created by a small percentage of the general population who have mostly bad traits, so we can also intuit that the "good" people who give back and present solutions would be a similar small percentage, and that most of the rest of us would fall somewhere in between. All philosophies, all religions, and the legal, psychiatric, educational systems, and charities, have been created and devoted to getting mankind up to speed, to elevate us to be better versions of ourselves, thus also elevating society at large, one person at a time.
So, no. I don't believe I was born right the first time. But, my mind is my favorite toy, and I'm still working on things.
BB
Anon, Friday, May 17, 2024 at 10:55:00 PM PDT, said:
[[..."One thing HWA often said was: "Don't believe me; believe your Bible."
Many Christian denominations say that as well. However, "believe your bible" is often code for believing the bible as interpreted by that group. In the case of HWA, he says that when talking to outsiders or prospective members, but once in the church, the new member is expected to blindly believe their minister. This bait-and-switch is the outer/inner face that's common in all cults.]]
******
Anon, if you were Satan, god of this present evil world, how would you do it? Bait and switch! Didn't it work in the Garden of Eden?
Nevertheless, HWA still often repeated himself saying: "Don't believe me; believe your Bible." Why didn't you/we do that?
Did you/we get caught up in relying on hirelings, organizations professing to be "of God," and booklets, and perhaps, knowingly or ignorantly, putting a man/men on some pedestal(s)?
Join the club. I got caught up in some of that too, and one may "repent" of that and continue on and strive to "believe your Bible," which is full of interesting, helpful, examples that the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob (Acts 3:13) preserved for us to learn from, and maybe not fall into some traps, snares (2 Tim 2:26) all about us.
How could something like bait and switch catch us up? Perhaps another spirit, like some third party, may have entered the picture. James did tell fellow Christians the following about another spirit that would "bug" them:
"...The spirit that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy?" James 4:5
That spirit has nothing to do with God's Spirit, but apparently it is strong enough to overcome, and overwhelm, "very good" (Gen 1:31) human nature. It did with Adam and Eve, and it doesn't matter whether one is deceived or not. Why do you think God preserved such examples in the Bible?
Do ye think that the scripture, James 4:5, was saith in vain? Time will tell.
Paul told us about: "...the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:" Eph 2:2
And haven't we all been disobedient? Was there a cause? We don't wrestle flesh and blood; the real enemies are spiritual (Eph 6:12) we've been told, but who believes it?
People shouldn't be putting other people on a pedestal for any reason. There is an example recorded for our admonition, well, actually numerous examples, but the one coming to my mind at this time is that golden calf incident. Where was the real problem? Making a metal calf? Looking to Moses? Go back and read about it in Exodus 32.
The ancient Israelites made a covenant with God, which basically said that God was to be Number 1 above any and all things, but the people had their minds on other things as shown in verse 1 of Exodus 32.
"And when the people saw that Moses delayed to come down out of the mount, the people gathered themselves together unto Aaron, and said unto him, Up, make us gods, which shall go before us; for [as for] this Moses, the man that brought us up out of the land of Egypt, we wot not what is become of him."
Note that the focus was virtually on a man, Moses, and themSELVES. Where was God in that picture, or in that equation? Nowhere. Might a "third party," among other things, have been involved.
That already was idolatry, as the Israelites broke the covenant: the first commandment. Were they all stupid? No, it's an example. Without God's Spirit one just can't do it. Moses later clarified that to the Israelites with the words in Deuteronomy 29:4.
"Yet the LORD hath not given you an heart to perceive, and eyes to see, and ears to hear, unto this day."
Those words are just as true today, aren't they?
Now, FWIIW, with those ancient Israelites it was God that made the covenant with the people, and that covenant will not fail, but...
Time will tell...
John
In my comment written on Saturday, May 18, 2024 at 5:04:00 PM PDT, I said the following:
"...Now, FWIIW, with those ancient Israelites it was God that made the covenant with the people, and that covenant will not fail, but...
Time will tell..."
******
I left out the word "later," and that sentence should have said:
"...Now, FWIIW, with those ancient Israelites it was God that later made the covenant with the people, and that covenant will not fail, but...
Time will tell..."
In other words, the people made that first covenant with God, and it failed as evidenced by the goings-on with the golden calf incident.
Later, after the tabernacle was placed outside of the Israelite camp (Exodus 33:7) another covenant was made, but God did not let the people make it that time, because they would only fail again. God made it, and God cannot fail with that covenant.
To elaborate on this covenant, but to save me some typing time, I will share part of a transcript of Part 2 of The Covenants given in late 1996 and it is relative to Exodus 34:
"...Well, we come to something very interesting now in verse 10 that a lot of times we read over and this is God speaking.
10 “And he said, Behold, I make a covenant…”
I make a covenant: not the people! This isn’t the people to God. Now, God is going to make a covenant. He said: behold, I make a covenant…
“…before all thy people I will do marvels, such as have not been done in all the earth, nor in any nation: and all the people among which thou art shall see the work of the LORD: for it is a terrible thing that I will do with thee.”
It’s going to be a mighty thing too. So, right here in this scripture, this is something different! This is a covenant that God is going to make with Israel: not that Israel made with Him and that’s different.
We saw what happened when the other people made this covenant with God. They broke it immediately. He gave them the Ten Commandments and what’s the first thing they did? They broke the first Commandment: “Don’t have any other gods!” He said, “Don’t bow down to them” and what did they do? They bowed down to them and they certainly were taking God’s name in vain. They certainly did. They were saying: “Oh yes! We’re God’s people,” but they were living a different way and probably for the situation they did it on the Sabbath and they broke another one. If you want to go through the whole thing they probably broke all of the Ten Commandments right there! We know they were partying big time!
So, the first chance a human being really has that made a covenant with God to do the Commandments, they broke it immediately! So, God says now, and this is very important to remember. He says: “I AM GOING TO MAKE A COVENANT with you.”
Now, it’s on His Word! Now, this is what He is going to do and we find, and we know, that He kept His part of the bargain. He always does! He always does..."
Okay, that's all I wanted to add to explain a later covenant that was made by God to the people.
John
John,
Do you believe HWA was inspired by God? Do you believe the WCG was being used by God? By your responses, it seems you do. That is a bit of a surprise to me.
Anon, Monday, May 20, 2024 at 11:24:00 AM PDT, said:
"...John,
Do you believe HWA was inspired by God? Do you believe the WCG was being used by God? By your responses, it seems you do. That is a bit of a surprise to me..."
******
My answer to both of your questions is yes, and yes; however, the former WCG was an organization, and I believe that a portion of God's Church, which is an organism, was embedded within that former WCG. Today, virtually everyone has been scattered, such that that last era of God's Church is addressed to: "And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans..." It's like addressed to individuals, as if scattered and not together like one body, one similiar mind, one way of thinking. The previous 6 eras are addressed like as follows: "Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus (or, e.g. Sardis, Philadelphia, etc.) write;..."
I learned from HWA some spiritual milk, and lots of junk food in the form of prophecies. Who inspired the milk? The unfulfilled prophecies: like the "very soon" coming of Jesus Christ to return to earth and reign for 1,000 years. You can probably think of other examples.
Think about it another way.
Do you believe King David was inspired by God?
I do, but was he always inspired by God? No. I suspect he was inspired by something else when he numbered Israel, when he committed adultery with Bathsheba, and did that premeditation of Uriah.
Prove all things, and keep the good. The only perfect human being used and inspired by God was Jesus Christ. All of the rest of us have been flawed to one degree or another, but thankfully, God is working out His perfect Plan of Salvation such that the following words of Titus will be fulfilled in accordance with God's Will being done:
"In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;" Titus 1:2
I believe both HWA and Joe Tkach Sr both were inspired by God as servants of God, but with two different jobs/missions to complete.
Will HWA, Joe Tkach Sr, you and I be resurrected to receive eternal life?
Time will tell...
John
The best comment HWA ever made was "A clumsy bridegroom may not know where to find it". If you've read and remember everything HWA wrote you'll know where that one came from.
The best comment HWA ever made was "A clumsy bridegroom may not know where to find it". If you've read and remember everything HWA wrote you'll know where that one comes from.
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