"Isn't it fantastic that if there is no purpose you have nothing to fulfill. You can just live.
But no. You want a purpose and not just a simple purpose, but a God given purpose.
It's very dangerous. People who think they have a God given purpose are doing the cruelest things on the planet. They are doing the most horrible things. And they have always been doing the most horrible things. Because when you are given a God given purpose, life here becomes less important than your purpose."
Sadguru-Stop Looking for Purpose
I couldn't help but think the how true that is when reading the previous post about the trials and tests of Samuel Kitchen as he runs around the planet seeking and fulfilling his perceived God Given Purpose. What a mess he is. The God given purpose can do that to you.
I don't recall much emphasis, if there was any at all, on having a God given purpose growing up in the Dutch Reformed Church. I never heard the phrase and knew no one striving to find it or fulfill it in that context. We just lived our lives and found meaning wherever it presented itself. That is my recollection. My parents found meaning in volunteering for the Red Cross or the State School where my brother resided. That was enough.
But when I discovered The Worldwide Church of God at 14 in a world of assassinations, racial upheaval and war in the Middle East, I became convinced my purpose was to respond to being chosen and have a good explanation as to the oft asked question once in the church, but yet unknown, "So, how did you come into the truth?"
Not only that, my God given purpose was to become a Pastor. That was my personal goal when I went to AC. However, the first student assembly there, GTA warned us all that if anyone came here "to be a minister", to get that out of your head. What!? I thought this was a seminary? (I was naive about the WCG and AC as well as the Armstrongs). I recall my thought being, "We'll see about that", but kept and pondered these things in my heart. It was kinda like being told in advanced public speaking class by the instructor/minister "No one get's an "A" in my class". Uh huh...we'll see. He was mistaken.
From then on, it was game on. My purpose was to become a King or a Priest in the Wonderful World Tomorrow. To rule over 10 cities, or 5 or just 1 if I was a lazy ass or had less than stellar enthusiasm for my God given purpose. Personally, I never cared for the idea of ruling cities. I would have more hoped for a nice log home, along a lake in the Adirondacks and basically being left alone with a few good friends in the surrounding Wonderful World Tomorrow community.
My perception of being a Priest or King was that those positions, back in Biblical and Medieval times were probably considered the premier positions as opposed to the peasant population, so that seemed like great positions to aspire to in that miserable and mundane setting the average person had to endure just to get by.
My God given purpose was also to attend the FOT with 3 services a day. Morning, afternoon and evening, at least at first, until exhaustion and illness caught up with way too many, marriages were getting a bit frayed, and the kids were beginning already to hate church. I recall thinking at 18 when I attended my first FOT at Squaw Valley, these folk are a bit too driven, but I really think it was just a way to give every hot shot HQ minister some sermon time, at the expense of everyone's attitudes, to serve not God, but ego. But that's just me.
It hadn't yet dawned on me that "Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven," (Matthew 5:19) could be taken to mean "no worries, at least I made it" :)
So for the next 30 years, I invested in my God given purpose. To preach the good news of the Kingdom of God both to inspire and motivate. Then of course, the Deity and Jesus must have gotten bored with that purpose and changed it, working a "miracle in the Church".
Now we had a different God given purpose, and I personally had better get onboard and preach it or else. The new God given purpose was to magnify his Son, honor him through new, but not new of course, Holy Days of Christmas and Easter and eschew all things in the previous God given purpose. Of course, this was all done on purpose.
I was no longer interested in the concept of the God given purpose and I thank God that I never hopped over to those insisting on the old God given purpose or those all emotionally attaching to new one, which, of course, was not new at all. It was just new to them. For me it was the reinvention of the wheel. Not interested.
From all of this, my personal conclusion in the whole matter was that the Deity and Jesus are tricksters who would have known that when I sought my original, because I was chosen, had "come into the truth" and now had my God given purpose, but it really wasn't that at all and decades on the ruse would be revealed. Being suspicious of the new God given purpose and having already experienced that the first quarter of my life, I don't find a need any more to have such lofty goals or purpose.
The obsessions and compulsive behaviors one can come up with to fulfill their God given purpose are myriad and not a bit frightening. They can tear your family apart and leave you not a bit broke if one attaches oneself to, say, a Gerald Flurry, Dave Pack or others not only obsessed with their own purpose but in need of being in charge of inflicting it upon others at great cost.
The world, indeed, is full of examples of the perils and dangers in having one's own God given purpose which conflict with the God given purposes of others.
So I agree with...
" People who think they have a God given purpose are doing the cruelest things on the planet. They are doing the most horrible things. And they have always been doing the most horrible things. Because when you are given a God given purpose, life here becomes less important than your purpose."
Poor Samuel Kitchen is a really good example of a really bad view of himself and the folly of "The God Given Purpose".
"If you have balance, then you can climb. If you don't have balance, then it is better you stay on the ground. It's not safe for somebody who is not balanced to climb high. It is best you stay close to the ground. Then you should not climb"
"If you are looking for a purpose, you are seeking madness. If you find one, you are sure mad. If you think you have found a purpose in life, you for sure gone crazy. Because only insane people have purpose. Or people who have purpose are insane in many ways. "
"If you think this is your purpose (to fight for "my country") you will destroy the whole world for the nonsense you believe in"
"The purpose in life is to live"
35 comments:
"The purpose in life is to live".
For me, "The purpose in life is to live and let live". This is "The God Given Purpose". If only we had this in WCG, we would all be better off.
This article is an excellent example of Dennis Diehl's purpose in life, which is crown stealing. He's such a gentleman in his writings, so if I let anyone steal my crown, it will be Dennis Diehl.
Dennis brings up some valid points which demonstrate what I've noticed about many atheists, that their beef is not really with God, but "religion". Oh--God will get blamed, accusing Him of being a " trickster " or cruel and hateful because of hell and slavery, but that's misdirected.
It just so happens I have no interest in "religion" either. I consider it one of the foundational pillars of this world system, along with the political, economic, and social spheres. But that in no way taints the existence of a loving God and the authority of the written word. Abuse doesn't cancel out use!
Magnifying the Son is still a worthy purpose. It's the ONLY purpose!
If I were a life-counsellor instead of a technician, my advice to anyone looking for purpose would be to pick your particular innate talent which provides the most positive return, and feed that. Find an outlet where you can express it, keep learning more about it, and apply it consistently.
In so doing, you will have discovered God's purpose for you!
Some thoughts on this subject:
https://godcannotbecontained.blogspot.com/2024/10/the-purpose-of-life.html
Whatever is wrong with Proverbs 19:21 ?Many are the plans in a person's heart, but it is the Lord's purpose that prevails
A God- given purpose is to glorify God, to love God and to love others. To actively seek God and walk in his ways. What is wrong with that?
So some man called Samuel Kitchen lives an extreme odd life which is to be held up to everyone else as an excuse to throw out basic scripture? Sorry I don't agree.
God has divine sovereignty and Proverbs 19:21 clearly emphasizes the dangers of ignoring godly wisdom in the long run.
All you people who have had such good, long lives should actually be thanking my brothers and I. We were told that God had a very special purpose for us, something key to Herbie's end times, 1975 and all that. Thing is, we didn't buy into it, left the cult, and so the end didn't happen! I personally am responsible for preventing the Germans from coming and getting you all!
So, when I read all of this stuff about Sam, who did buy into it, and about Bob Thiel, Dave Pack, Ron Weinland, and all the others who actually did step up to the plate, I get a good glimpse as to how futile my own life could have been as a result of my parents' dedication to their cult! Why was it that my brothers and I had the good sense to see through it all, and these poor saps have allowed themselves to be screwed out of what could have been normal, happy lives? We didn't want to be the big Kahunas or gate keepers of Herbie's apocalypse, and I can't imagine how such a thing could appeal to anyone else of sound mind.
And, by the way, you are welcome! It's been our pleasure to thwart the whole bogus movement!
Dennis cited, “"The purpose in life is to live"
What you wrote supports the idea that the concept of “life with a purpose” can be misunderstood and abused. Not, rather, that life with a purpose is irrational. I believe that the cases of abuse that you cite are valid. But you cannot live without little purposes and, if you are sentient, big purposes. When you get up in the morning, one of your purposes is to find something to eat. That is not bad, if you don’t eat a lot of saturated fat for breakfast, but life sustaining. This could be classed as a little purpose.
On the big purpose side, there is one that binds us all together. It is a matter of how God created us. We are seekers of The Good (I capitalize the word because I mean the great, noble Good as a philosophical concept). We do not want a wretched life. We want a life that is marked by Good. And to choose The Bad is irrational and maybe insane.
Sometimes we do not know what The Good is. The followers of Jesus seek The Good. And Jesus has described for us, in case our environment distorted our view, what Good is. Adolf Hitler consigned millions of Jews to annihilation. But in principle, he was seeking The Good. He oddly thought the Jews were the arch-enemies of the German people. Seeking Good was not his problem. His problem is that he did not know what Good was. Even those who are evil seek what they think is The Good. I was mistreated by people in the WCG but I am sure they did not think what they were doing was bad. They thought what they were doing was Good because they did not understand what Good was. I have mistreated others in the same way.
Even in the essay that you have written, you are engaged in Good-seeking. You believe that it is Good to try to live a life without any big defined purposes. So, you have defined for yourself a purpose and are now engaged in seeking it just like a stockbroker on Wall Street going after the dollar. You can criticize and evaluate purpose-seeking but you can’t get away from it.
Taking a theological turn, there is a popular infernalist idea in mainstream Christianity that people may choose or purpose to go to Hell. I first ran into this idea in my last days as an Armstrongist in the writings of C.S. Lewis. He felt that the doors to Hell were locked from the inside. This softens the idea of Hell by making it seem like the inmates have chosen their condition and could get out if they wanted to, q.v., The Great Divorce. The idea was initially appealing when viewed in contrast with traditional notions of Hell. But I believe, from reading counterpoint views from other theologians, that this idea is inane. Nobody in their right mind chooses Hell as being something Good. And if someone is not in their right mind, no merciful God would hold them accountable and toss them into the fire. Our views and understanding of what is The Good come from our life experiences and surroundings. It is no less an indoctrination then what would happen to us in a religious cult. I believe people must understand Good in order to reject it. This implies that there is something further for people who die nonbelievers.
Scout
The thing is, HWA cast a broad net. How many others were told similar things by their parents and had the common sense to walk away from this happy horseshit? We only see the types who took it seriously, are suffering great frustration, and will no doubt die without seeing any sort of validation.
As a human being in the ecosystem of planet Earth, your purpose is to convert biomass into fecal matter. Everything else is an optional detail, however wonderful it may be,
I support Herbert W. Armstrong 100%
I support Herbert W. Armstrong 100%
You pay 4th tithe through 10th tithe? Wow!
I agree.
Anonymous
This article is an excellent example of Dennis Diehl's purpose in life, which is crown stealing. He's such a gentleman in his writings, so if I let anyone steal my crown, it will be Dennis Diehl.
====================
If your crown is subject to theft by anyone else, then I would suspect your faith and personal beliefs are fragile and shaken in the face of better information or alternative explanations that might be more credible.
Dennis,
In this business, semantics rules. The Pulpits feed little idea pellets to the Pews and the Pews barely need to swallow to ingest the fodder. So, “crown-stealing” is a sound-bite. But like all things semantic, this sound-bite does not exist in isolation. It has context. It has nuance. For example, if someone tried to save a heretic from heresy, the heretic could easily and naively regard this attempted rescue as “crown-stealing” if context and nuance are ignored.
Dawkins posits the meme as a unit of meaning that undergoes mutation and natural selection as if it were an organism. While I am skeptical of this, I know that the crown-stealing bit does not rise to the organismic level. Once spoken, it lies in a state of torpor for us to read and re-read. Its pre-emptive presence seems to preclude augustly the notion that the speaker should justify what this sound-bite means and why it is applicable to anything. Its brevity seems to make it forceful and, therefore, unchallengeable. Its quasi-scriptural rendering seems to make it profound.
A good one, among the comments in this same post, is “I support Herbert W. Armstrong 100%.” The author of this statement does not understand that he needs to unpack this assertion if it is to be convincing. Very likely, he belongs to a derivative denomination of Armstrongism which years ago departed from HWA’s teaching. But, in this denomination, this little sound-bite probably resounds between the Pulpit and the Pews no matter how meaningless. The statement takes on a privileged, unexamined life. In that realm, torpor is power.
Scout
Personally, I had thought this blog entry would receive much more commentary. But, I can also see where it might stimulate some thoughts which readers of certain persuasions would prefer to keep private.
Are all the COGlodytes back from their party yet???
Well, BP-8, most teachers of religion (even if they differentiate by saying that theirs is not "religion", but "truth") tend to equate their package directly with God. In fact, they actually become quite urinated off if an atheist attempts to correct them on this point. One would think that atheists, being of higher intellect, would see through the whole false dichotomy, but in their minds, the choice they have is to blame a being they consider to be nonexistent, or to go along with their religious opponents' conceptualizations by equating God with religion in their assignment of blame.
Hope that helps.
Dennis, Revelation 3:11 states "let no one steal your crown." Why is this written unless it's a possibility? This would not be possible if every Christian is constantly strong and never stumbles, but where's reality? Perfect human beings don't exist. Crown stealers know this. My first minister approached me on three different occasions hinting that I did something wrong. I couldn't defend myself self since no specific sin/crime was mentioned. He then proceeded to verbally bash me. After the third time, the holy spirit put the words "fall by the wayside and I'II stop hurting you" to explain his motives. This minister has been mentioned more than once on this blog.
The Bible's warning against crown stealing is there for good reason.
Dear splitoffs, don't let Herbert take your crown.
If "fall by the wayside and I'll stop hurting you" was the motive then you should have reported this modern day Diotrephes.
Anon, Wednesday, October 23, 2024 at 12:13:14 PM PDT, wrote:
"...Dennis, Revelation 3:11 states "let no one steal your crown." Why is this written unless it's a possibility? This would not be possible if every Christian is constantly strong and never stumbles, but where's reality? Perfect human beings don't exist. Crown stealers know this. My first minister approached me on three different occasions hinting that I did something wrong. I couldn't defend myself self since no specific sin/crime was mentioned. He then proceeded to verbally bash me. After the third time, the holy spirit put the words "fall by the wayside and I'II stop hurting you" to explain his motives. This minister has been mentioned more than once on this blog.
The Bible's warning against crown stealing is there for good reason..."
******
Anon, what is that "good reason?" We know that once one is sealed (Jesus Christ was sealed John 6:27) by God's Spirit one is sealed (Eph 1:13-14) until the day of redemption (Eph 4:30). What's the "good reason," then?
Your quoting Revelation 3:11 to Dennis (and Dennis will steal nobody's crown) reminds me of the following words:
Deut 30:15 "See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil;
16 In that I command thee this day to love the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the LORD thy God shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it.
17 But if thine heart turn away, so that thou wilt not hear, but shalt be drawn away, and worship other gods, and serve them;
18 I denounce unto you this day, that ye shall surely perish, [and that] ye shall not prolong [your] days upon the land, whither thou passest over Jordan to go to possess it.
19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, [that] I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:"
Well, why is this written unless it's a possibility?
To this day, all sin, all continue to die. Who choose life? And only Jesus Christ has been the only One made perfect, still died b/c He was murdered, but was resurrected to eternal life, and lives to this day; that is forever!
Earlier God had already told Moses that the people were not going to choose life, even though it was later recommeded they do so. Where's that proof? Go back one chapter, and read the reason why the people would not, could not, choose life:
"Yet the LORD hath not given you an heart to perceive, and eyes to see, and ears to hear, unto this day." Deut 29:4
Good news: God is a Giver.
Good news: John 6:44 and John 12:32 are absolutely true and spoken from the mouth of the Son of that God of Abraham Laughter and Israel!
What means it?
God the Father is going to give eternal life by the power of His Spirit through His Son (I Cor 8:6) via the first and second resurrections; there will be no need for a 3rd resurrection (Unless you believe like a Doug Winnail and most other hirelings who fled from the former WCG).
Which resurrection will you be a part of?
Time will tell...
John
The "Rhetorical Jesus" said: “God has given you a purpose on this earth. Are you fulfilling yours, or putting it off?”
Now if Doug Winnail were to answer, by one of his repetetive memos to his followers, he may well answer with preaching or writing this:
"Yes, I am! Be like me! Begin to fulfill yours like I am doing it. Stop putting it off! How many times do I need to remind you, you people, you followers, you, you, you...you! Follow me!"
Now, we know that Doug, like his fellow hirelings (e.g. Pack, Franks, Flurry, Weinland, Shabi, Kubik, Hulme, et. al) of that former WCG organization, really thinks he is fulfilling his real purpose, but is he really? Are they really?
Time will tell...
John
P.S. Now, might God be fulfilling something (Isaiah 14:26; Acts 15:18; Eph 1:11; Heb 4:3, 2 Tim 1:9, etc.)else? Time is telling!
Regarding crown stealing:
https://godcannotbecontained.blogspot.com/2024/10/is-someone-trying-to-steal-your-crown.html
Lonnie, some point/s from your links rather than your links exclusively would be appreciated.
Well, at least "FLIPPER" had a "porpoise driven life"!
Well, I am Flipper when it comes to HWA and the Worldwide Church of Satan and it's splinters! I flip them all off!
Does everyone here realize that within 10 days the USA will turn into a Theocracy ruled from the Ambassador Auditorium.
You need to be in the know.
Nck
No, nck! People have finally realized that the Germans are not coming! Therefore, we have to become them ourselves! Within ten days, the advent of the Fourth Reich!
P.S. Some second thoughts....
The "Rhetorical Jesus" said: “God has given you a purpose on this earth. Are you fulfilling yours, or putting it off?”
Now if Doug Winnail were to answer, by one of his repetitive memos to his followers, he may well answer with preaching or writing this:
"Yes, I am! Be like me! Begin to fulfill yours like I am doing it. Stop putting it off! How many times do I need to remind you, you people, you followers, you, you, you...you! Follow me!"
Now, we know that Doug, like his fellow hirelings (e.g. Pack, Franks, Flurry, Weinland, Shabi, Kubik, Hulme, et. al) of that former WCG organization, really thinks he is fulfilling his real purpose, but is he really? Are they really?
Time will tell...
John
P.S. Now, might God be fulfilling something (Isaiah 14:26; Acts 15:18; Eph 1:11; Heb 4:3, 2 Tim 1:9, etc.)else? Time is telling!
Oct 26....Pastor Che says hi... L.....
Nck
My aunt in Miami wrote the scripts for The Rifleman, Gentle Ben and Flipper. She worked for Ivan Tors Studio in the day.
Nck, is that a joke or have you missed taking your meds?
Can I still get one of his T-shirts, nck?
The with great majority winning Trump will give the evangelicals everything what they want.
Pastor Che is in the front ranks of this movement.
I have never joked here.
Nck
Read the True Believer by Eric Hoffer to understand how this works. Excellent read.
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