The crowd chose Barabbas, not because they loved him, but because they hated Gospel Jesus.
John 18:40
"They shouted back, "No, not him! Give us Barabbas!" Now Barabbas had taken part in an uprising."
19:15
But they shouted, “Take him away! Take him away! Crucify him!” “Shall I crucify your king?” Pilate asked. “We have no king but Caesar,”
=================
Bonus observation:
It kinda feels like when the second plane hit the South Tower or when you waited on the results of a biopsy and, well....you know....
75 comments:
Pretty good comparison. Following the crowd can get you in trouble. "How can so many people be wrong" is a common objection when it's pointed out that Sunday keeping is not of God.
Side note: Barabbas means son of the father. I guess you could say the deck was stacked against Jesus.
Yes, Dennis, you've hit the nail on the head. NOTHING about what just happened is Christian! It is a betrayal and rejection of the values which Jesus of Nazareth exemplified. It has, however, given me greater spiritual clarity and eliminated yet another illusion from my past. What happens next is completely predictable - no prophets needed!
We have no Palantír that would permit us to eavesdrop on the true currents of political power. So, we are left to flounder on with dead reckoning. This makes voting in national elections a hazardous business. I would be skeptical no matter who won the election. And voting is ultimately a prognostication. It is about a person trying to make a judgment on what a politician is going to do in the future. And there are no guides - not even past performance although people tend to repeat themselves. And after much banal cognitive dissonance reduction, we gamble.
Yet, humans are fascinated with the idea of somehow knowing the future. Some people, I found out in business school, look to Wall Street. For them, the stock market is like a secular oracle. They believe The Market discounts for all known phenomenon. But nobody’s making a killing off that principle. I think living into the future is more like a roller coaster ride. Everyone buys their ticket and boards up. Now for the ride. The roller coaster may run along pre-determined rails but nobody knows for sure what the track looks like from the vantage point of the boarding platform. The ride will be white-knuckled all the way. We may have just turned Barrabas loose.
But I am optimistic. If the President Elect is not successful by some collective standard and democracy survives, the American people have a chance to redeem themselves at the Mid-terms two years from now.
Scout
Trump is so funny and kind!
Is this a voting analogy that makes Trump into Barabbas and Kamala into Jesus? Double-fail. Barabbas was favored by more than 51% of the crowd, and Kamala is no Jesus, no matter how badly the MAGAs want to crucify her.
The analogy is the choice between a moral and peaceful person and an amoral/immoral and violent person.
Longer story but there was "Jesus(in oldest version) Bar Abbas"--son of the father a religious title. And Jesus King of the Jews.--a political title. 2 titles of one Jesus. Not 2 people. Which gets released? If you say Jesus King of the Jews you all die. "We have no king but Caesar"= The safe correct answer. Our Jesus was the religious one. Bar Abbas. You can kill the political one..
It does. The choice was not twi men but 2 titles. It was a crowd loyalty to Rome test for the crowd. They passed. Jesus titled King of the Jews died. Religious Jesus, Bar Abbas was of no concern to Rome
I see no reason to be upset about the election. The world system is what it is
(1 John 5:19) regardless who is in charge, and the mid-terms will not change that.
Since the United States is the only thing standing in the way of the elites one world order, I suspect the MAGA narrative will be upended by economic collapse or an unwanted war, forcing Trump to fall in line as he did with the covid fiasco. Both Biden and Harris have proven they are no different and are quite willing to sell the country down the drain. Either way our grandkids are screwed!
Well yes, if the splinters chose the guy who preaches 7 feasts and 3 tithes they got the wrong Jesus.
Perhaps one should note that one of the main ‘teachers’ on this blog openly denies there is an actual God. Then one of the most ‘religious’ wannabe teachers who claims to be openly homosexual in mind, agrees with the self-proclaimed atheist. Yet they are respected as they attack anyone who does not accept their warped views. Hellooooo!
There are videos from ministers on Youtube making a good case that Trump fulfills the prophecy of the AntiChrist.
On the other hand he could be viewed as Saving America from the perversions of the Democratic establishment.
He represents the Eastern Left, opposed to the Roman West. You will see Stalinist tendencies.
There's the open southern border that's allowing in criminals, gangs and the resulting spike in crime. This government is weakening the country's military by shoving the Marxist woke ideology down its throat. And reckless government spending with the resulting inflation and diminishing purchasing power for the ordinary citizen. Yet Dennis equates the Democrats with Jesus. Which is blasphemy. Yet he protests when called Dennis the spiritual menace.
What happened to the 20 Million votes???
It's difficult. I have my carton of Newports still unopened and in my hall closet with my collection of TV show dvds. At the time I went to the Rez and bought them, I figured that if Trump got reelected, life would be valueless, so I might as well enjoy what I could, and start smoking again. I didn't exactly quit because I hated smoking, I quit for better health and longevity. Living under Trump needs to be as short an experience as possible! Armstrong was bad enough. Who needs the secular equivalent of an HWA lording it over you???
But, Joe Biden saved me. As a Pennsylvania boy who went to Ambassador College specifically in California because of the Beach Boys, I always admired my Scranton homeboy Joe, and when I saw through the debate what had happened to him as a result of age, I immediately went to the health food store and got some
Creatine and some testosterone supplement and it righteously enhanced my workouts, rebuilt muscle mass, and redeepened my voice by a couple of octaves. So, now I'm going to destroy that by smoking my Newports? Maybe not!
I appreciate Scout pointing out the fact that the midterm elections will provide an excellent opportunity to restrain the president and his badly deceived cult. And unless someone frames me and makes me appear to be a Canadian illegal alien (Frostback), I needen't worry about being deported.
I had fantasized about enlisting in ANTIFA, and joining the local chapter of Black Lives Matter, but maybe not so fast there Buddy Boy. Let's just see if maybe someone has evolved into a wise elder statesman instead of an amalgam of our worst case scenarios. I mean he did seem to learn a little bit about extreme abortion rhetoric. Or, maybe the crimes for which he cannot pardon himself will catch up with him! Or if his doctors lied about his health, there could be a debillitating medical situation!
We became accustomed to the postponement of life changing events in Satan"s WCG. So for now, I'm not going to be firing up any of my Newports until New Years Eve! Plenty of time
for shit and rumors of shit by then!
Hopefully they'll repent.
Why are they respected? Why are there sycophants supporting this blog?
Scripture teaches nothing new. So this situation has happened before.
Problematic remark "I know". Frequently used in today's culture, given a bit too freely without any depth of thought.
I don't think you do know actually. Wishful thinking and all that. Nothing more competitive than Christianity.
With one swooping thought you sweep aside and write off whole sways of individual Christians because they are 7th day Sabbath keepers...because they are not you...not doing what you want... serve no purpose to you ...except entertaining mockery...sweep the peasants aside and write them off as not knowing Jesus. Well I think that's for Jesus to decide. That's why I feel thankful Jesus is the real judge of all mankind.
There is one who speaks rashly, like a piercing sword; but the tongue of the wise brings healing.
Proverbs 12:18
BP8 1:55 PM
Yep. Like the saying goes, “The parents have sold their children’s birthright for a mess of pottage.”
Ex 23:2 states: “Thou shalt not follow a multitude to do evil” and the Judean crowd before Pilate definitely were guilty of this sin in voting to condemn an innocent man to death…just like those who vote in support of murdering innocent children in the womb at home and those who vote in support of murdering innocent children outside of the womb abroad. See it’s not a case of left versus right, but right versus wrong. Always has been always will be.
It occurs to me that hard lessons in what not to do are often the most effective in terms of long term results. I think America is about to get one hell of an enema. Another Trump term as president will leave democracy reeling, 'cept perhaps for the "faithful followers of Brother John Birch and members of the Antioch Baptist Church. who ain't even got a garage, you can call their wives!" (Hat tip to Charlie Daniels, the Uneasy Rider)
8.53pm, there's posters here trying to rob others of their eternal lives, and your hope is that they enter the kingdom by repenting. Where's the justice there?
Try reading Psalm 35 below and similar, rather than exclusively Christ's public relations, 'soft on crime,' Sermon on the mount. Christ validated David's Psalms by quoting from one of them..
Psalm 35:
4 May those who seek my life
be disgraced and put to shame;
may those who plot my ruin
be turned back in dismay.
5 May they be like chaff before the wind,
with the angel of the Lord driving them away;
6 may their path be dark and slippery,
with the angel of the Lord pursuing them.
Political elections are a festival of selfishness. The various electorates vote their self-interest. The voters want something. And the gold standard is that they want it now, and they want it perfect and they want it free. That is the way that democracy works. Altruism rarely finds a place at the table unless it is closely allied with someone’s self-interest. But it is better than self-interested autocracy.
In counterpoint, Jesus gave us the principle of "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you". Can you imagine how our immigration policy would be altered, for instance, if this principle were followed. Instead of making war on immigrants, we would make war on the great drug cartels that feed the inordinate appetite of the USA for illegal recreational drugs. Many of the people coming to our southern border are fleeing the effects, direct and indirect, of the USA inspired drug cartels. The cartels supply the demands of middle-class American kids and others at the cost of effective government for people in Central and South America. Frat boys and Sorority girls toke and this triggers, through a train of events, migrant flight to our southern border. Or maybe we would really try to get our kids from using drugs. And then we have the White Christian Nationalists (aka MAGA Christians) lined up, as if they had never cracked a Bible, behind the Deportation Policy of the Trump regime. What if some of the people on our southern border are Christian brothers involved in a migration of desperation? WWJD?
This is what happens when the followers of The Way become involved in secular politics. It just does not work. Either Christianity dominates or secularism dominates. It’s like a bear riding a bicycle. It may seem ok at first glance but it just does not seem natural on second glance.
Scout
On the bright side we don’t have to hear about how man’s government is immoral starting in a few months, and we won’t have to hear about how character in leaders matters for 4 years. Also the hand wringing about deficits will disappear from COG leader’s talk too!
Ah yes. The baby killer left wingers, or the war monger right wingers.
Living proof that Trump Derangement Syndrome TDS) is real. It should be classified as a mental illness, Loonie Lonnie. And Dennis, you equate the democratic election to the feeling of the plane hitting the second Tower on 9/11. Really!?!?
I've read a lot of excuses from the loonie left since Tuesday. But none will acknowledge that the Democrat Party selected (not elected) a bad candidate; with bad policies; with no track record of ever accomplishing anything; who had to morph herself from her past stated Marxist positions to sound moderate.
This election is a historic pollical realignment. The message is the people do not want the current orthodox to continue. And we don't want the World Economic Forum global elite garbage to continue.
Richard
Richard
Trump Derangement Syndrome is real. It 's Trumpy slang for someone who will not drink the kool-aid. It irks Trumpies to no end that there are yet a few pockets of sanity around. Like in that SciFi novel The Bodysnatchers. Your body has been snatched. The real Richard is gone and a MAGA Republican is using your body. And the MAGA Republican ruthlessly wants everyone to be snatched.
Oh no, not this American political nonsense AGAIN.
My King is Jesus of Nazareth, the Messiah, my Savior, the Son of God! Trump is NOTHING to me, he's certainly NOT my president, and NEVER will be. My allegiance is to the Kingdom of God, and my faith is in Christ. I live in a region that is claimed by the United States of America (which was formerly a semi-democratic republic). I now regret my service in the United States Army, all of the times I recited the pledge of allegiance, and my former affiliation with the Republican Party. The United States is a part of the Babylonian Beast political power of this world, and I don't want to partake of its sins. God's mark is in my forehead and in my hand.
Now, as for Richard and the other hypocrites who have commented here, you blaspheme the Holy Spirit by rejecting the only power that can save you or the country you currently inhabit. You call the people who are Christ's disciples deranged, fools, loony, and mentally ill, while you blindly support a very corrupt man of little conviction and no morality. You call people Marxists, but you label them as such only because they disagree with you. Have you even ever read any of the writings of Marx and Engel? Have you ever studied Soviet history? Are you even familiar with Mao Zedong's story? As far as I know, Harris supports private property, inheritance, and capitalism. Sure, it is accurate to characterize her as very left of center on the American political scale, but a communist? REALLY? You strain at a gnat and swallow a camel, and you bear false witness without even batting an eye!
You are just like your father, the Devil! You quote Scripture to condemn abortion and those women who seek one, while screaming about your right to own a gun (the modern equivalent of those swords that will be beaten into plowshares one day). You condemn abortion but won't lift a finger to help poor women care for their children and scream about deficit spending, especially related to social programs. You support legislation that prevents a woman who has been raped or is the victim of incest from ending her pregnancy. What about women who desperately want to have children and have problems achieving that goal? What about your so-called brothers and sisters in Christ who cite Scripture and claim that life begins when we take our first breath? You want everyone to be guided by the dictates of your conscience, not their own! Hypocrites! Devoid of the fruits of the Spirit - kindness, empathy, mercy, forgiveness, and patience!
Well I think Richard your point has just been proven correct by 1:29’s tds reply lol
So, what? We're just supposed to ignore all of the horrible outrageous things that Donald Trump actually said he is going to do???
Reality is the second half of the Tribulation starts on Inauguration day. And, that's not derangement syndrome, it's unfortunately going to be a very bad and painful national enema.!!! And, no, spell check did not correct "enigma", I actually meant "enema".
This election isn’t anything more than people taking out their economic angst on the incumbent party. Guaranteed the reds will do something to piss normal people off and get spanked in the midterms. You might have left Armstrongism, but you obviously never left off following bullshitters that have all the answers.
Re the right to own a gun the American Founding Fathers who established a Christian Constitutional Republic enshrined the Second Amendment for a righteous reason. We don't live in a utopia and never will until the Messiah returns. Thus, it's incumbent for every individual to have the right (if s/he so chooses) to own and use a gun for self-defense.
Re abortion it is murder plain and simple. And if a woman falls pregnant after rape or incest it's not the innocent unborn child that deserves the death penalty, but the guilty offender. Further, those who use Scripture to defend the murder of unborn children twist it to their own condemnation (see https://americanvision.org/posts/planned-parenthood-and-pagans-use-bible-to-support-abortion/).
Re labeling those on the left as Marxist-Leninists it's because they're following the agenda of Atheistic Communism whether they know it or not. And we've been warned and witnessed their tactics in the West for decades now as they instigate conflict everywhere to escalate trouble between Christians and non-Christians; men and women; rich and poor; whites and non-whites; parents and children; etc. So every dissatisfaction must grow into a resentment, every resentment into an argument, every argument into a fight, every fight into a riot, every riot into a war, and ultimately every war ends in devastation. The goal is to destroy Christian civil society never a compromise, never settlement, only conflict.
I can understand taking out economic angst, but this line of thought will end up becoming a portal for all the really evil stuff Trump has been talking about inflicting. And if the voters think the inflation from the Covid episode was bad, wait til they get a load of the tariffs!
Plain and simple, 10:31. You've been brainwashed, as evidenced by your first dizen words. The founding fathers were deists. Also, Rush Limbaugh was the main proponent of the no compromising with liberals idea. Prior to him, compromise was one of the mainstays of our governance. He woke up and radicalized what had been the so-called "silent majority". And then, Trump wrested the Republican party away from the educated middle and upper classes, and adapted it to the blue collar set. It's why we are witnessing such ignorance and hearing so many conspiracy theories. There's been a shift.
"... I suspect the MAGA narrative will be upended by economic collapse or an unwanted war, '''
Never underestimate the Rothschilds and their invisible empire. (we all know that Satan is pulling their strings)
Just for fun, next time you talk with a Harris supporter ask them to tell you why they voted for Harris without using these 3 words: Trump, Woman, Minority. I've done this a couple of times and I would caution you to stay a little over an arm's length away from them during the process.
8:13 AM There were no new wars under Trump's first administration. He trashed the Bush legacy in the South Carolina Primary debate with Jeb Bush saying Iraq was a huge mistake. Remember when Democrats said there were no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq? They were right. Remember when Dick Cheney and Haliburton were considered evil? His war hawk daughter Liz Chaney campaigned with Harris. We now have wars in Ukraine and Israel where there were no before Biden. Please explain who the war monger is.
We've been dealt a bad, bad blow by stupid voters, some really nasty shit. But the bottom line is that we're going to need to reassess and adjust, to figure out a way to live and prosper in spite of it all. For some, it will be more difficult than others.
The biggest challenge is that we are all affected by whatever happens to the greater system in which we live. As in the case of a tornado, earth quake, or disease epidemic, these are things about which there is very little we can do. Whether a hit comes to the greater economic system, the social system, or the bubble or insulation our nation provides against the rest of the world, even if we live responsibly on a personal level, we will take the same hit as everyone else. Those who are in the ACOGs will most likely be exploited and deprived to a greater extent by their own group leaders in reaction to negative changes which could come about.
Partial solutions lie in the fact that there are always things which each of us can do, and share, steps which we can take. Situation? Desperate, but not completely hopeless.
BB
515
You are correct. The Rothchilds could pull the plug on our 35 trillion dollar debt whenever they choose, and they will when God's timetable permits.
Nov. 8 1:29:06 LOL! Thanks for the good laugh. It's hard to take your comment seriously. You realize MAGA means "Make America Great Again". What is wrong with that phrase? You don't want America to be great? Are you a US citizen, and if so why don't you want America to be great? Do you hate you the USA? And you do realize that the term "Make America Great Again" did not originate with President Trump. Both Presidents Ronald Reagan and Bill Clinton used the term before him.
I hear you 10:41, but I am avoiding prophesying how trump will bungle things. He slung a whole heap of slop saying what he was going to do during the campaign. Main thing is that he is immoral, intellectually lazy , and has a chaotic scattershot approach. He will be his own worst enemy once again. It just takes a little time. Maybe the second time around some Americans will learn their lesson.
Almost on par with asking a trump supporter who pays for his proposed tariffs
Those three words are "anti-dogwhistles" for the MAGA cultie white nationalists, 5:25. You might say they are the entire reason for MAGA's existence!
You are so right, 8:15! Imagine the poor guy who voted for Trump because he lost his good paying factory job, and the Covid era funny money that was printed up to inject liquidity into the economy ended up causing inflation instead and killed what was left of his financial security. Are the 1%er wealth creators going to beneficently absorb the new tariffs rather than pass them on to consumers? Hell no! The tariffs will set off a new round of inflation!
Loonie Lonnie,
My King is Jesus of Nazareth, the Messiah, my Savior, the Son of God too so I am glad we have that common belief. And thank you for your service in the United States army as we remember our Veterans on Monday – although you state you now regret your service and regret reciting the pledge of allegiance. It appears you now hate your country. Since you do not want to partake in “the Babylonian Beast political power … and its sins”, have you canceled any veterans benefits you may be receiving, or is that your own hypocrisy? Hate your country but love its benefits?
Your denial of President Trump as “not your President and NEVER will be” made me laugh. Now you are the one who sounds like the Extremist. I accepted Joe Biden as my President in 2020. And yet, you dared to initiate a smear attack on me here on Banned. You were gaslit by a Joe Biden speech who made such a claim a couple of years ago implying 74 million voters were caught in extremism. I didn’t hear that same claim by Biden when he spoke to the nation a few days ago about the election's outcome. I would never smear or attack someone I didn’t even know as you did. I defended myself against your false witness. And then you claim defending myself (against your false accusations and smear) is an example of my extremism. That is rich, Loonie Lonnie! Pot meet Kettle!
I am confused! So, let me understand you. Are you saying if VP Harris had been elected, then you would love your country and it would no longer be part of the Babylon beast power? Did you vote? If you didn’t vote, then you sound more like an Armstrongite. Herbert Armstrong taught we were not to vote in elections. Armstrong taught that Satan is the God of this world (Rev12:9). So, if you didn’t vote, and you agree that the Babylon Beast power is part of Satan’s world, then you and Herbert Armstrong seem to be in full agreement.
I don’t need to study Karl Marx. I know what Marxism is. I am a financial weenie and studied Finance and accounting, and MBA. Marxism came up from time to time in the Universities I attended. I did have to do Karl Marx searches on Google a couple times before the election to verify her prior positions (before morphing herself) were indeed Marxist. Harris admitted to keeping her core values though. As Bernie Sanders also admitted, she was saying what she needed to say to get elected. Hmm!
One Marxist proposal she made after her selection (not election) I will cite as an example. Karl Marx said, “A heavy or progressive or graduated income tax is necessary for the proper development of Communism”. Even after morphing herself to fool the public, Harris proposed the radical taxing of unrealized capital gains. What is the difference between Dave Pack’s Common (Communist) doctrine and Harris’s proposal to tax unrealized capital gains which would have forced asset holders to liquidate their assets in order to pay the tax on the unrealized gain? Wouldn’t Dave Pack love to enforce a tithe on the unrealized capital gains of his followers’ home values? Dave Pack and VP Harris have much in “common” consistent with the aforementioned Karl Marx quote. Of course, picking Tampon Tim, the self-proclaimed “knucklehead” with his fascination with Communist China didn’t help her case either. The World Economic Forum’s (WEF) Klaus Schwab famously said, “By 2029, you will own nothing and you will be happy”.
You arrogantly claim by implication to be the judge of who “blasphemes the Holy Spirit by rejecting the only power that can save you or the country you currently inhabit”. Very cavalier of you but not surprising. Since you’re the judge, I will ask what do you say to Christians who prayed to God for God’s will to be done in this election? That was my prayer. What do you say to Christians who prayed for President Trump’s safety and saw a divine intervention miracle in Butler, Pa.?
Lastly, I realize you have had “daddy issues” that factor into your Loonie Lonnie perspective. Trump Derangement Syndrome is a mental health issue, and I hope you get some help.
Richard
Kudos to Dennis! He did title his Post, "Stirring the Pot". Mission accomplished Dennis!
Richard
The strange thing is that Trump does not represent the Babylonian Beast. His faction opposes it. He is part of the Eastern/communist/Israeli/Russian faction, which is prophesied to overthrow Babylon. The Democrats represent the European establishment. You haven't noticed? Trump is with the Zionist Elders Of Zion, who are historically enemies of Rome.
Calling his group right-wing is ignorant. They are "right-wing" Leftists. That's the trick.
Richard,
Many people claim Jesus as their Savior and King, and then proceed to not follow his teachings or produce the fruits of the Holy Spirit. If you really were of Christ, you would do his works.
I do not hate the United States - I just don't love it anymore. Like my recovery from Armstrongism, I have reached this conclusion over a long period of time (as several posts over the last couple of years attest to). BEFORE the election, I wrote this post: https://godcannotbecontained.blogspot.com/2024/09/pledges-oaths-and-service-to-nations-of.html Indeed, after my exit from the Worldwide Church (1985), I had noticed that the position of the Church on a Christian's participation in politics was not consistent with their commentary on it. I had always been very patriotic; but after I started voting and had joined the U.S. Army to defend our country, the dissonance in my own views began to come into sharper focus.
In short, I realized that the American brand of patriotism was idolatrous - that it was the modern manifestation of the same old worship of the state, its military prowess, and its leadership that had been practiced by the Assyrians, Babylonians, Greeks, Persians, and Romans. In time, I came to understand that the United States was NOT a good nation - that we had NEVER experienced a golden age of righteousness - that we were just as flawed as all of the other human attempts at self-governance that had ever been tried.
Although my majors were history and political science in college, I began to realize that America was becoming hyper-partisan after the Bush-Gore election (I had voted for Bush). Then, after Obama was elected, it was off the charts. Moreover, when Trump was elected the first time, I was stunned that my fellow citizens could choose such a man to be president. I wasn't fond of Hilary Clinton either, but Trump made her look like a saint by comparison. Fast forward to 2024, for the first time in my adult life, I was becoming so disillusioned with the political climate and process that I decided to underscore the inappropriateness of Christian ministers preaching politics from the pulpit. I did not post any yard signs or contribute money. I did vote for Harris/Walz, but I had already decided that that would be my last participation in this political system.
Yes, you apparently do need to study Marx and his Communist Manifesto, because the characterization of Democrats as communists is ABSURD! Yes, a progressive income tax was certainly one of the provisions of their manifesto, but free public education was also one of them. How many Republicans support free public education? Private property, inheritance, and a capitalist style market economy are almost universally supported by both American political parties.
As for my relationship with my father, it was really no one's business! Even so, my public statements on that score have been forthright and transparent. As for evaluating the mental fitness of our public personas, I am happy to leave that in the hands of our readers.
There are a few specifics which very much concern me. One of them is the goals and statements contained in project 2025. Trump attempted to walk this back, but it is a paper which was compiled by Trump insiders who do have a close relationship with him.
Second is the very adversarial relationship which he fomented with our post-World War II allies during his first term in office. It was very disrespectful, and caused many of them to wonder if there would be the same level of commitment to their national security which all other presidents had given throughout their terms in office.
Third is the spectre of trade wars and tariffs. If he follows through on these, it will not only damage international relationships, but will also cause prices to rise on so many of the goods which all American households consume. These tariffs, if enacted, are therefore defacto inflation.
Also, during his first term in office, Donald Trump was president for those who agreed with him. He made no secret of the fact that he was punishing blue states in dealing with some emergencies.
He does not like to be held accountable to truth. In his mind, truth is what he tells you it is, and it usually has no relationship with the facts easily available through honest fact checking. I saw in him a return to the types of politicians and leaders whom Tom Laughlin was depicted as fighting in the Billy Jack movies. Trump represents a resurgence of mentalities which were defeated back in the 1960s and '70s. "Tin soldiers and Nixon coming. Four dead in Ohio!"
Further, how does one add to the national debt? The one to which Republicans often point is uncontrolled government spending of money which we don't have. But providing tax cuts, when there is no way to replace the revenue lost as a result of those tax cuts does what??? It also increases the national debt. Supply-side economics, practiced since the Reagan era, benefits the wealthy, and is supposed to "trickle down" to the middle and lower classes. Yet our recent history has been the growing disparity between the moneyed class, and the vast middle class consumers once created by Keynsian economics.
One or more of these problem areas is guaranteed to affect each and every one of us. We are all going to need to find creative ways to remain happy and prosperous. Note: I haven't even gotten into racial or social issues. That's a whole 'nother can of worms!
BB
I'd just bet that a sizable percentage of the voters never went deeper than the commercials for the information that informed their votes.
Thank you, Byker Bob, for injecting some clear-eyed sanity back into the conversation. I am so sick of, and disillusioned with, politics. Yes, all of the things that you listed are concerning for the future of the U.S. I'm glad that you also mentioned race and social issues. The Trump agenda does represent a rejection of the progress which had been made on those fronts. I would also add a deliberate and systematic attack on so many of our institutions: the justice system, intelligence community, diplomatic community/State Department, Environmental Protection Agency, Department of Education, Department of the Interior, Federal Reserve, a free press, etc.
Alas, all of that is above my pay grade and has nothing to do with my obligations/responsibilities as a Christian. I will continue to try to help my friends, family, loved ones, and community; and I will find happiness and fulfillment in those pursuits. I have faith that God will eventually fix the rest. Moreover, in this forum, I will continue to insist that secular politics is inappropriate from the pulpit or among the larger community of Christians. We are citizens, first and foremost, of the Kingdom of Heaven.
BB 846
You make valid points but you are also making HWA'S case that man is totally incapable of governing himself. Of course HWA, by following the same ways, proved himself unfit to govern the church.
The one thing I like about Trump is that which Rush initially brought out, that he is not the typical polished politician. The professional politicians (Obama, Biden, the Clinton's) are smooth, make empty promises, lie through their teeth, pretend that they care, and do it all with a big smile. Like Governor John Dutton said, "the recipe for success is to blame and complain". Kamala was very good at that.
Trump is what he is, a businessman, bully, crass, gruff, and in a strange way, the difference is appealing and refreshing. He resonates with a lot of people, and as an outsider is not welcomed by the establishment. This reminds me of an old farmer in the church who sold his farm and moved to Pasadena and bought a house on Waverly Drive. He was told by the brass he shouldn't do that, he was living too high and setting a bad example. He did it anyway.
The further along we get into man's rule it is becoming more evident that we are doomed without the hope of true and righteous leadership, the Lord Jesus Christ. Happiness is believing, not being an atheist!
5:18:54 THEY ARE STILL COUNTING VOTES in some states. President Trump officially surpassed his 2020 vote total, which supports his claim that he improved with each election. Contrasted with Presidents Obama and Biden (through Harris as his surrogate), they both garnered fewer votes as incumbents running for second terms. The gap between Trump and Harris, however, has dwindled to about 14 million votes. Democrat donors are outraged as Harris spent $1 Billion in 3 months and her campaign is left with $ 20+ million in debt, assured to go up as the bills keep rolling in.
Byker Bob
I am worried about the same issues that you list. The problem is that over 50 percent of the American electorate has other priorities. I believe many of these people are in near panic that the USA is going to cease to be a White European nation around mid-Century. The demographics are unassailable and in a nation of "one person, one vote" all is lost. So the people seguing towards panic are looking for something other than a constitutional democracy. And if a political candidate is seen as an advocate of White European ascendancy, that commitment forgives all sins. The inordinate concern about this issue makes your list cancellable if it associated with a presidential candidate of color. The White Europeans in the USA will never permit the election of a person of color to the presidency again by whatever means they can effect this prohibition, policy be cursed. You have raised multiple significant issues but this nation is a one issue nation – the ascendancy of minorities and the dilution of White European influence. Economics, foreign policy, fiscal policy, health care, etc. are all red herrings. For the Harris campaign to talk to these issues is of no electoral value. Over half of White America already knew where Trump stood on the salient issue and liked his stance.
Let me add, I believe we do have a serious problem with our nation because it is divided racially. It is a problem that will lead to the deconstruction of this nation. But I don’t know what to do about it. Trump offers a specific solution beginning with his immigration policy. The platitude is that “we all need to get along” - has never worked. We don't have the spiritual chops for it.
Scout
I've gone through half a dozen scenarios myself, Scout, and they all devolve into a lot of blood letting. I don't believe the global community will allow the USA to execute a plan involving ethnic cleansing, How does one prevent it? Capitulation usually requires massive force, destruction, and bloodshed.
Have you seen the real red and blue map, based on the ways in which individual counties voted rather than states? Not a heck of a lot of blue left even in majority blue states when it's analyzed that way.
BB
Byker Bob,
Great to read your comment. You were one of the pioneers back in the mid-1990s of internet discussions about our WCG experience.
There are counter responses to each of your concerns, but I won’t elaborate here other than to provide a very short response on two of your concerns: 1) under both past Republican and Democrat administrations, our NATO allies weren’t paying their financial contributions. When elected in 2016, Trump made them pay-up (and it is my understanding that Biden has let them lapse again). Once our NATO allies paid up in Trump’s first term, any other discussion about NATO by Trump seemed to disappear. Trump is a businessman; 2) Trump uses tariffs as a negotiation bargaining chip. If negotiations fail and he has to follow through on imposing the tariff, the price implication here in US markets (which you point out) would move companies to produce the foreign tariffed products here in the USA stimulating our economy with job growth.
I left Armstrongism in 1976 to the shunning and the estrangement of my entire family who remained. My awareness of the political process began to blossom in the 1970s. Herbert Armstrong taught us that this is not God’s world and we were not to vote. It took me decades to completely rid myself of many of the false teachings of R/WCG, but “not voting” was one of the early ones that I dropped quickly. I figured I should be allowed to “pick my poison” so to speak. Policies, not personalities, matter. Elections have consequences and I couldn’t understand why I should not vote in my own self-interest. I registered Independent. When George HW Bush ran for President in 1988, he promised “Read my lips: No new taxes”. After Bush was elected, he compromised with Congress and signed into law new increases in several taxes. Why would I vote for someone who lied to me on a “bread and butter” issue such as taxation. His “Read my lips” promise came back to bite him. In 1992, I joined 19 million other voters who voted for Independent Ross Perot. As I stated earlier, I am a finance and accounting, MBA weenie. I am also a businessperson. Ross Perot, a businessman, made the most sense to me in 1992 and someone who I could identify with. I voted in my own self- interest contrary to my Armstrong upbringing.
There was never any discussion in R/WCG in the 1960s and 1970s about time extending in this world 50-60 years into the future. It was always “time is short. Send more money to HQ”. However, public policies do matter particularly as time moved on from the 1972/1975 in prophecy failure. Mundane things like municipal bond issues affect me. I should vote on them. Economic, social and political issues affect us all and we should vote on them. They even affect the R/WCG. My understanding from my family that remained in the R/WCG is that WCG revenues peaked in the robust Reagan economy.
If this is not God’s world, then would God really mind if I picked my own poison on issues that affect me particularly since his son Jesus has not returned as expected in 1975 – lifetime ago?
Richard
Lonnie, Richard, Scout, and members of the Anonymi, thanks for the nicely measured comments and the compliments as well. I am still trying to process this whole thing myself. We've all got hangovers from Armstrongism, and since our minds were opened to the possibilities of Apocalypse, and conditioned to entertain conspiracy theories as "proofs", these ghosts from the past can remain as background factors in the present as we react to and interpret events around us.
Whatever happens as a result of the elections largely depends on what version of Donald Trump we get. One of his styles is that of a "shock jock". That is the persona which has come out in the past usually immediately following his conversations with Steve Bannon, or Nick Fuentes. But he also has an extreme need to be loved, or at least admired. Sometimes during a second term, a president becomes concerned with his legacy. It's possible that that, coupled with the education he invariably received from his two impeachments, all the court cases, and 1-1/2 assassination attempts may have tempered some of his long-held mindsets. Or, the opposite! If his behavior truly is pathological, as alleged, then no such education will have taken place. It has also become quite obvious that, cognitively speaking, he is not what he was four years ago. We can't really guess how these factors will affect his presidential style this time around. We'll need to monitor that as it all all unfolds on a daily basis.
Because of the ways in which he navigated his way around tradition, and got past many of our charter checks and balances during his first term, it's easy to assume worst case scenario. This is especially true since there has been talk of modifying the Constitution, firing knowledgeable, experienced and efficient long term government employees (whom he blankets with the term "deep state"), and restructuring branches of government so that the Federal Reserve (as an example) is directly under presidential supervision. We should also be worried about continued balance and objectivity on the Supreme Court.
I've given up on climate change. That's already on autopilot like a runaway thermonuclear meltdown. A pity that there is no longer a damned thing we can do about it. However, fairness with which he addresses the increasing number of disasters caused by it should concern all of us. And, he probably will actually use the military to quell riots.
Someone once said "worst case never happens". (That's NOT an HWA quote!). At this point, I'm just hoping that whatever happens is "less bad" than what we would expect. We're all good trouble shooters here, and have some important experience that our tenure in Armstrongism forced us to accumulate, so I believe we should be better equipped to deal with any negative fallout than John Q. Citizen. Best thing, we stick around, and we keep talking! And by that, I mean we continue to get past the boiler plate cliches!
BB
BP8: Exposure to business executives throughout my career has taught me that for the most part, they are just as likely to lie, cheat, and backstab as the politicians, often even worse. And, believe me, I can be just as crass as the next guy, but I feel that the office of president requires a certain amount of dignity, particularly for his dealings on the international scene. There is a certain code amongst world leaders, and if an outsider is lacking in that area, prospective peers dismiss him. You won't find me complimenting HWA for much of anything at all, but he did indeed know how to address and blend with people in the upper echelons of leadership.
Also, I really feel that for the most part, we in the USA have enjoyed predominantly good governance. There have been hiccups, big ones from time to time, and injustices, but overall, we are able to live much better lives than those in countries with criminal leaders (oops, maybe that's a somewhat dated opinion), What bothers me currently, is that following the murder of George Floyd, it felt as if America was finally becoming open to some long ignored realities. Now it appears as if an entirely different set of changes is on the way.
BB 424
I get what you are saying. There's no doubt that business man Trump is as corrupt as any politician, but the difference is the way he is perceived by the common man. Remember Dave Chappelle's skit on Trump being an honest man because of his admission that he lawfully uses a rigged system to his advantage? That admission would be fatal to any politician.
We all know that business people are self serving and that's not held against them, but politicians are supposed to be serving US, NOT THEMSELVES, and getting rich in the process.
Concerning America, realities are ignored and changes are coming, but that's all by design, being the product of social conditioning and engineering. Scripture predicts: "in the last days perilous times shall come", 2 Tim.3:1. I for one am not looking forward to it.
" Prior to him, compromise was one of the mainstays of our governance."
Compromise is just loosing in increments. The Left comes up with some crazy idea, the Right opposes it, so the Left says "lets compromise". That way they get a little of what they want. Then they come back again with the same lunacy and want to compromise again...and again, and again...until their crazy objective is realized.
That is a large part of why this country is in the mess it is.
If you are right, you don't compromise.
Byker Bob 10:08
I did see the map showing the red shift by county. The election was about White Nationalism versus a Coalition Society. I believe we are in the prelude to a civil war. I think ultimately the White Nationlists will win. The cost will be that we will have a autocratic government instead of a representative democracy. And Big Brother will be much more robust than Orwell ever imagined.
Scout
Loonie Lonnie,
It doesn’t surprise me that someone who could be so easily dogwhistled, and launched a smear attack against someone he doesn’t even know, who haughtily sets himself up as a judge, would also render God’s judgment for him as to who is converted and who is not. You set up your judgment predicated by saying, “Many people claim Jesus as their Savior and King, and then proceed to not follow his teachings or produce the fruits of the Holy Spirit”. I agree with you there. But then you cast your judgmental conclusion based on your predicate by saying, “If you really were of Christ, you would do his works”. I know you think that was a pretty clever linkage, but you aren't fooling anyone but yourself. But I'll play along...
How do you know Judge Loonie Lonnie, that I don’t do his works? Do you know me personally? Do you know my heart and my mind? I would never be so stupid to make the judgments that you have made on anyone. I certainly don’t make any predicated judgments on you or how you vote as you did with me. Have you ever read Matthew 7:1-5? Of course, in your mind those verses couldn’t be referring to you, could they?
So Almighty Loonie Lonnie God, you state to me “if you really were of Christ, you would do his works”. What works would Almighty Loonie Lonnie God have me to do? Oh, but wait! I thought we were saved by grace. Not by works! Which one is it? Are you a double-minded person who can’t decide between grace and works? When you say works, you’re sounding more like Herbert Armstrong.
I’ll take it one step further. Herbert Armstrong made some mighty claims including being God’s representative here on earth. You claim in a previous comment to me in this Post, “God's mark is in my forehead and in my hand”. What’s the difference between HWA’s claim and your claim? Little Bobby Thiel whines and claims he’s a prophet and you claim, “God's mark is in my forehead and in my hand’. Again, what’s the difference between little Bobby Thiel’s claim and your claim? I realize you have a very high opinion of yourself, but how do you know God's mark is in your forehead and in your hand?
You remind me of Romans 1:22, “Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools”.
I hope the mental health services you need do help you, and help you deal with the daddy issues YOU made public here on Banned. Your God complex and thinking that you are the Judge of someone else’s conversion should be addressed also by your mental health resources.
Richard
Ummm, George Floyd was not murdered.
I find it interesting that every ethnic group is allowed, even encouraged, to have their own country, and live amongst their own kind, except white people. I'm sure this post will be branded as "racist", but doing so will prove my point. Pay attention to the world stage and apply a little critical thinking. The truth can be very uncomfortable at times. (you are probably assuming that I am white, but that isn't necessarily the case, which doubly proves my point)
Richard,
Let it go! I'm tired of living rent free in your head. Your obsession with dissing me is unhealthy! If you disagree with me on something, just say so. You do not have to make it personal.
As for your status as a Christian, are you familiar with these teachings of Jesus Christ?
If you are even angry with someone, you are subject to judgment! If you call someone an idiot, you are in danger of being brought before the court. And if you curse someone, you are in danger of the fires of hell. (Matthew 5:22)
Do to others whatever you would like them to do to you. This is the essence of all that is taught in the law and the prophets. (Matthew 7:12)
Yet, you have repeatedly referred to me as "looney" Lonnie and suggested that I am mentally unstable. What conclusions are we to draw from that about the status of your Christianity? If I have ever offended you in any way, I APOLOGIZE - I'm sorry! It was never my intention to get under your skin or provoke such a relentless campaign of animosity. If I have ever responded in kind, I apologize! I am human, and our first impulse is often to defend or counterattack (which is NOT a Christian impulse).
I believe that we are saved by grace through our faith in who Christ was and what he accomplished for us. Moreover, if we have received Christ and the Holy Spirit, we will be living our lives in accordance with his example and teachings - it is the evidence that we have been saved by him. I have NEVER claimed to be a god. I believe that EVERYONE who follows Jesus Christ and eschews the evils of this world has God's mark in their foreheads and hands. I am NOT unique in this regard.
Finally, I am willing to forgive everything that you have said about me. The ball is in your court. I leave it in your power to end this hostility or allow it to continue.
Lonnie
Monday, November 11, 2024 at 1:00:00 PM PST,
There are a number of problems with your assertion. More often than not, "white" people are themselves a compilation of different ethnicities. For instance, even in ancient times, Great Britain was made up of Celts, Picts, and Saxons. Most of the "white" folks in the U.S. are a combination of Celtic, Anglo-Saxon, German, French, and/or Italian. There is also a strong Hungarian and Slavic thread running through some parts of this country. Likewise, there is a sizable part of "white" America that has Mexican and/or African ancestral roots. Finally, there is the matter of the native inhabitants of the U.S., Australia, New Zealand, and South Africa. Yes, the truth is uncomfortable and inconvenient at times.
Uh, tomato, tomotto. But, he surely didn't die of natural causes. If the cop had listened when he said he couldn't breathe, he'd still be alive.
I hate to say it, Scout, but wouldn't the Catholic Church and Europe almost be compelled to intervene in such a civil war??? I can almost visualize huge numbers of MAGA slaves for sale. Probably fetch top dollar in Germany!
Is there such a thing as Loonie Lonnie Derangement Syndrome?
This is a tough one, but in the coming weeks, I'm going to be purposefully searching for positives. At one time, it looked as if AIDS was going to be the new Bubonic Plague. 9/11 seemed to change everything. The great recession could very well have gone into a depression. People even had the long wave economic cycles of Nikolai Kondratiev to support the idea that a major depression was long overdue. And the most recent fears were set off by Covid 19. When these events were at their zenith, the future appeared to be grim. Something happened to pull us back from the edge.
Fear has become almost an industry in and of itself. And, it's such a negative emotion that drains the soul. Leaders use it because it is a very effective tool of manipulation. I'd like to think that somehow, I (we) can extract from life just enough of what we need to soldier on. Until the next existential threat. Life cycles are like a roller coaster. If you are looking for a constant it's that there will always ups and downs. Roller coasters, after all, exist because people get off on fear!
BB
Monday, November 11, 2024 at 1:00:41 PM PST might have a point. Look at what is happening to Britain, Ireland, Scandinavia, along with what Biden has tried to do here is the US of A. No doubt Trump will be vilified for undoing it.
Lonnie,
Fair Enough!
I believe coincidences can be “incidences” from God. Ironically, when I was writing my earlier comment to you on Saturday, November 9, I was also watching a news commentary as I was multi-tasking. The news commentary coincidence was showing the various clips of what I will call the gaslighting Joe Biden had done in the past about President Trump and his supporters. When I saw the clip of Joe Biden saying Trump supporters were caught in extremism (all 74 million of us I guess), the light bulb in my mind went off and I said to myself, "Oh, that must be where Lonnie got his extremism accusation of me". (Whether it actually is, I don't know). But it explained to me why when I stated my policy beliefs to you and kept asking you which one of my beliefs made me an "extremist", I could never get an answer from you. I honestly wanted to know from YOU which one of my beliefs made me an “extremist” in YOUR mind. When you wouldn’t answer, I concluded it must be because I support President Trump.
We have been called “deplorables”, “extremism” and, most recently ”garbage”. In reality, most of us are law abiding, taxpaying citizens who love our country and our concerned about our Country’s direction. Some of us operate businesses serving customers. I vote for “policies” over personalities.
I would never let anyone live “rent free in my head”. The price has been paid.
Apology accepted, and I extend the same back to you and ask you to forgive me as well. Forgiveness is an essential part of our Christian faith (Luke 6:37 among other scriptures). That means this matter between us is now closed and forgotten - as if it never happened.
Going forward, I wish you success, health and prosperity. Perhaps if our paths cross in God’s Kingdom, we can both drink a beer (if possible) and have a good belly laugh over how insignificant our exchanges were compared to all of eternity.
All the best,
Richard
Anonymous 4:05
I hate this new way for doing comments. The responses are buried within the stream like raisins in an oatmeal cookie and you are liable to never see this but here goes.
All I have is calculated speculation. I believe there will be a Civil War in North America. Not an ideological war but a shooting war with blood on the ground. And the White Nationalists will win but will in the process become an autocracy patterned after what you would read in Orwell's 1984. So, I expect North America to become a Fascist state before the end of the century. It may conquer Canada. But it will be a poweful nation that is a menace to other nations. I can only see the Catholic Church and Europe intervening only if North America becomes exceedingly weak as a result of internal strife. Then I would expect Europe and China to essentially come in with "peace-keeping missions." But that is a way long shot.
The mistake that Armstrongists make is that they believe that the USA is Israel and God will punish the USA and then restore it to a grand state. They expect the agency of this punishment will be the United States of Europe led by Germany.
But the USA is just another Gentile Nation. It had a brief interlude with representative democracy but that era is ending. The Bible characterizes Gentile Nations as wild beasts, q.v. Daniel. In fact, the Hebrew word Goyim can refer to a "troop of animals." The USA is a part of the great Gentile complex of nations called Babylon. It is so routine that it is not even called out by name even though it is the greatest Gentile Nation to ever exist. That is the Biblical view of the USA. The USA can become a fascist state just like Germany did last century. The Gentiles were viewed in the OT like the Orcs of the Tolkien Legendarium. Jesus changed that.
Scout
Scout:
"I hate this new way for doing comments. The responses are buried within the stream like raisins in an oatmeal cookie and you are liable to never see this but here goes."
To get around this and drop comments to the bottom of list, do not hit reply. That then embeds the comment wherever the original question was. The only thing this requires is that you need to copy and paste from the original post what you are responding to - like the old way worked.
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