Exposing the underbelly of Armstrongism in all of its wacky glory! Nothing you read here is made up. What you read here is the up to date face of Herbert W Armstrong's legacy. It's the gritty and dirty behind the scenes look at Armstrongism as you have never seen it before!
With all the new crazy self-appointed Chief Overseers, Apostles, Prophets, Pharisees, legalists, and outright liars leading various Churches of God today, it is important to hold these agents of deception accountable.
Herbert Armstrong's Tangled Web of Corrupt Leaders
This is what happens when the founder of your church was anal retentive! HWA's obsessiveness in searching everywhere for paganism has directly caused useless questions such as this, and apparently ministers feel compelled to answer them.
A better question would be are this world's national flags of any significance to ambassadors for Jesus Christ? Sunday keeping Christians consider the USA to be a Christian nation, so the flag is of great importance to them. Armstrongites hold their noses and say, "No, that's falsely so-called!"
Here we go again! The rebellious UCG ministers are attacking the church. They just cannot handle the fact that COGWA is doing a much better witness for the Gospel than they are.
The 1997 movie "Starship Troopers" is a criticism of "American nationalism/militarism" gone rogue..... a parodie of American fascist tendencies. Yet the movie is more political than religious in its iconography.
With the current Right in an unhealthy alliance with religion (with people believing the USA was founded on the bible instead of principles of "natural law/inalienable rights/self evident", the American flag can currently represent an idolatrous religious message, as Nat Socialism was a religion in its own right carrying the insignia and flags to accompany that belief system.
Oh Jeez! Not too long ago, people laid the hippie stereotype on us regulars. Now they think we're disgruntled ACOG ministers? We must be doing an effective job of exposing Armstrongism.
Not 4:46. Blaspheming now! You are indeed UCG ministry. Why didn't you go with GCI in 1995? Think your lies and deceit and bullying is godly ? Proverbs clearly teaches a deceitful man only hurts himself in the long run.
Nck, The belief that we are a Christian nation was more prevalent decades and centuries ago. That there is a current rise in nationalism and in Christianity is a good thing. There may be a slight bump in Christian nationalism which can be a bad thing, but it’s trivial compared to the benefits of a moderate nationalism and an increased Christian influence. Intuitively, I know a longer period for these two movements will be good for the U.S. and the world. We are no where near a position where there is a danger from this nationalism. Don’t you as an intuitive also surmise that?
Yet most of what you say is plsin wrong from a historical perspective.
First the influx of Italians was bound to quota since they as Catholics were considered a danger to democracy as they looked for spiritual guidance tl a Foreign Prince.
Today we see Waspism replaced by Spanish - Catholic - Temperament.
Also when one visits DC and reads the Statutes as set forth by the ones honored in the Temples tbere one cannot understand any of it without a thorough understanding of the Enlightenment and products thereof like NATURaL Law... as I hinted at by quoting Jefferson.
Non of the founders quoted the bible.
I do agree that Catholicism re Vance, Rubiio, etc are better than Communism as practiced by the Catholic Biden. Yet filtered rhrough a MAGA lense I fear Christianity is weaponized ss a political tool that moves, away from the Enlightenment Ideal the USA was founded on by its original architects.
But yeah.... In general Christian principles are so unique, so precious, so superior to any other fsith that it may wither the storms of poliitical abuse.
El problema es que these people have also embraced white nationalism, and are rejecting established science. You know, Iran was once quite the advanced and modern nation. Suddenly, they reversed centuries of progress when Ayatollah Khomeini returned from exile. I see the present times in the US as the hard-right Christian equivalent of the Islamic revolution. That's what Project 2025 is all about!
Nothing can save the US from the impending crisis surrounding the national debt. I thought the tariffs were good because the money from them was going to at least make a feeble gesture in that direction. Now, a president with a badly fallen approval rate is going to use it to send out dividend checks!
Come to think of it, I've never been to a COG service where the congregation controlled the building - not rented from others - and had a U.S. flag in it.
That may be erring on the side of caution.
But you'd better not mark Veterans/Remembrance Day at church.
The writers of the declaration were deist. And correct, they did not quote the bible. And it's people's version of their christianity with that nationalism that gets weaponized. Galatians 3:28 solves the enigma, when practiced. But its hard for the Viveks, Kash's and the Dinesh's of the world within MAGA to cosplay.
What's this trip on UCG ministers? I left the WCG before there was any such thing as a splinter! Joe Tkach Sr. was a Preaching Elder at the time. Nothing ever made me want to attend anything started up by anyone rooted in Armstrong. I did enjoy listening to the gospel music sung at the African American church congregation across the street from AC Press though. I thought to myself that if they only let them, our own Colored Brethren could be making wonderful uplifting music like that as special music for us during sabbath services! Too bad the Armstrongs had such provincial attitudes.
nck said: "Non[e] of the [American] founders quoted the bible."
10:22 said: "The writers of the declaration...did not quote the bible."
Both statements are demonstrably false.
Political scientists Donald Lutz and Charles Hyneman conducted a landmark study published in the "American Political Science Review" (1984), analyzing over 15,000 political documents written between 1760 and 1805. They found the Bible accounted for roughly 34% of all citations—by far the most frequently referenced source in the founding era. The next most-cited author, Montesquieu, appeared only about 8% of the time.
Deuteronomy alone was the single most-cited book, surpassing any Enlightenment or classical work. Between 1760 and 1776, the Bible was quoted four times more often than Montesquieu and twelve times more often than Locke.
This data shows that biblical language, ideas, and moral reasoning deeply permeated American political discourse at the time of the founding—a reflection of a generation thoroughly steeped in the KJV Bible and its worldview.
False flag post ! What evidence is there that Herbert Armstrong said ANY flag was pagan ? He repeatedly used the American flag draped on a flag pole as branding for British Israelisim booklets and repeatedly in Plain Truth magazines ect.
Basically all the dystopian literature is based in leftist philosophy…conforming to a hopeless common mold for the population. A Christian “nationalist” philosophy is too far fetched even for dystopian literature.
Satan quoted Scripture too. The PLAIN TRUTH is that the United States is part of the same Babylonian power system that Russia, China, Great Britain, etc. are a part of - The U.S.A. was founded in sin. It is NOT God's nation, and it NEVER has been. Christians are citizens of the Kingdom of God. In this world, we are strangers and pilgrims on the earth. We don't want to be found giving our heart and allegiance to the Beast! Paul was a good citizen of Rome - he obeyed its laws, paid his taxes, and used the privileges to which it entitled him; but his allegiance was always first to Christ and his Kingdom. As Christians, none of us should want to become entangled in civilian affairs!
I hate to introduce some "yeahbuttitus" into the equation, but, I can't recall ever having seen the Stars and Stripes anywhere on the Ambassador College campus during my years there. And, I mean the regular flag. There were, as you say, pictures on the booklets, but no actual flags.
The flag was never trashed by the administration or ministry, but neither did we recite the Pledge of Allegiance at the beginning of classes each day, as we had in primary and secondary school. This was indifference, not hatred or perception of paganism. It was back in the days when members considered themselves to be Ambassadors for Christ, and not of this world. Not even the best church visionaries would have spoken of making America great again, as the official view was that we were watching the heirs to God's promises to Abraham on their final downward slide, a punishment for accepting the blessings, but not showing proper reverence or appreciation through obedience to God, specifically keeping the sabbath and avoiding robbing God by gratefully giving back His tithes instead.
We all have our own views of what may or may not be reality today. There is an abundance of well-researched material which tends to counter and shed doubt upon the rose-colored-glasses view expressed in my paragraph 2 above. However, what I described was the prevailing view throughout so-called "Golden Era" of HWA/WCG/AC.
Miller, It is foolish to say the U.S. was founded in sin, unless you are meaning a generalized milieu of sin that is present in all societies. Christian faith and expression of belief is more prevalent in the U.S. than in most any other country. That matters. Do I believe that the U.S. is God's nation? No. But, our country has prospered and I believe that has been due in part to our Christianity. It was in our churches that De Tocqueville saw the genius of our power and prosperity. As you no doubt recall he said, "America is great, because it is good." I get your point and I spend less time keeping up with politics, particularly the more sensational. But, involvement in civilian affairs is exactly what Christians should do as best they can. We are made to interact among our fellow travelers and try to make our journey better. Corrupt politics will corrupt a people. "When the king is righteous the people rejoice." corollary: The people will be happier with more righteous leaders. I think that is a good goal in this physical/spiritual life.
Luckily he pauses short of naming the USA as the Beast Power, which is SDA philosophy and remains in the Armstrongist fold with... "Who are the modern Romans?"
Great point Miller & Lonnie, ACOGs make the United States and Britain to be some sort of "israelite darling" lamb nation or something. That it's going to go through captivity again, and again, punished by the assyrians. Like its some kind of underdog thing. This is a nation that wasn't founded the Hebrew Calendar with Holy Days, it wasn't founded on a clean meat dietary understanding, neither was it founded on keeping the seventh day as the sabbath. It's part of that system of the world like all the other kingdoms of the world that rise and fall.
Thank you 9:24 for your very interesting contribution.
Even if I would agree with the sociological aspects of the argument posed.... It fails to understand Masonry, the Temples in DC with hiumans in them the entire grid of the seat of government and basic understanding of, natural law and the philosophical underpinnings of the Enlightenment of that Shining City on the Hill.
Yet.... Society at large was full of Protestant Ethic innits business Ooeration.... ss the editor of the Constitution felt compelled to write his own bible... 😁😁
Miller Jones/Lonnie C Hendrix, Wednesday, November 12, 2025 at 5:19:58 AM PST, wrote:
"Satan quoted Scripture too. The PLAIN TRUTH is that the United States is part of the same Babylonian power system that Russia, China, Great Britain, etc. are a part of - The U.S.A. was founded in sin. It is NOT God's nation, and it NEVER has been. Christians are citizens of the Kingdom of God. In this world, we are strangers and pilgrims on the earth. We don't want to be found giving our heart and allegiance to the Beast! Paul was a good citizen of Rome - he obeyed its laws, paid his taxes, and used the privileges to which it entitled him; but his allegiance was always first to Christ and his Kingdom. As Christians, none of us should want to become entangled in civilian affairs!" ****** To be specific, you say that: "...Christians are citizens of the Kingdom of God..."
How do you figure that out?
The Kingdom of God has yet to be established on earth some time after Satan, who yes quoted scripture too, exits the pit.
However, a Doug Winnail and other hirelings, all seemingly driven by "another spirit," of the former WCG organization with their versions of "another gospel" are still anticipating, hoping, wishing even that their "another Jesus" will return "very soon," especially before anymore of them take a dirt-nap, to establish a Mickey Mouse Millennium on earth. Time is telling...
Lonnie, perhaps you meant that Paul, one of many "good" citizens of Rome, actually considered that Christians are: "...ambassadors for Christ,..." (2 Cor 5:20)?
But, time will tell...
Oh, and that Beast? How would one give one's heart and allegiance to the Beast?
6 heads, per Rev 17:7-10, of the Beast have already been fulfilled. The 7th head won't exist until after Satan exits the pit (Rev 20:1-3, 7-8). What happened in between those 2 heads (#6 and #7)? What happened to that Beast? Do any of those remaining hirelings, still alive, of the former WCG really know much of anything worthwhile about that Beast you mentioned.
Are more booklets needed to be printed about principalities (Eph 6:12) and distributed? And, if yes, then why?
Do we still live in a “world held hostage/captive?” It appears that we all may be, to one degree or another, still entangled in civilian affairs,” but…
Dr. Condoleeza Rice used to say that the USA was born with a couple of birth defects. In this, she was acknowledging slavery of Blacks, and the virtual genocide perpetrated against Native Americans (who were mistakenly called "Indians" from the Columbus invasion forward into the 1970s)
Make no mistake about it, the USA has also done many, many good things around the world. But it is not a theocracy presided over by Jesus Christ. Many religions base participants ' ideal behavior on acknowledging sins snd shortcomings, apologizing and correcting them to whatever extent is possible. Doing that on a national basis is not being antipatriotic! It is trying to become the best version of ourselves and our country!
28 comments:
But what if you carve a flag?
This is what happens when the founder of your church was anal retentive! HWA's obsessiveness in searching everywhere for paganism has directly caused useless questions such as this, and apparently ministers feel compelled to answer them.
A better question would be are this world's national flags of any significance to ambassadors for Jesus Christ? Sunday keeping Christians consider the USA to be a Christian nation, so the flag is of great importance to them. Armstrongites hold their noses and say, "No, that's falsely so-called!"
Anything can become an idol. https://godcannotbecontained.blogspot.com/2024/09/pledges-oaths-and-service-to-nations-of.html
So they're not Jehovah's Witnesses. The flag has been a big problem with them for decades.
Here we go again! The rebellious UCG ministers are attacking the church. They just cannot handle the fact that COGWA is doing a much better witness for the Gospel than they are.
Why do those odd clouds have the face of Satan in them? More proof, you are all demon-influenced!
The 1997 movie "Starship Troopers" is a criticism of "American nationalism/militarism" gone rogue..... a parodie of American fascist tendencies. Yet the movie is more political than religious in its iconography.
With the current Right in an unhealthy alliance with religion (with people believing the USA was founded on the bible instead of principles of "natural law/inalienable rights/self evident", the American flag can currently represent an idolatrous religious message, as Nat Socialism was a religion in its own right carrying the insignia and flags to accompany that belief system.
Nck
Oh Jeez! Not too long ago, people laid the hippie stereotype on us regulars. Now they think we're disgruntled ACOG ministers? We must be doing an effective job of exposing Armstrongism.
Not 4:46. Blaspheming now! You are indeed UCG ministry. Why didn't you go with GCI in 1995? Think your lies and deceit and bullying is godly ? Proverbs clearly teaches a deceitful man only hurts himself in the long run.
Guess i’m not psychotic enough to see Satan’s face or any face in those clouds. Look it up.
Nck,
The belief that we are a Christian nation was more prevalent decades and centuries ago. That there is a current rise in nationalism and in Christianity is a good thing. There may be a slight bump in Christian nationalism which can be a bad thing, but it’s trivial compared to the benefits of a moderate nationalism and an increased Christian influence.
Intuitively, I know a longer period for these two movements will be good for the U.S. and the world. We are no where near a position where there is a danger from this nationalism.
Don’t you as an intuitive also surmise that?
5:41
I agree that Christianity is a good thing.
Yet most of what you say is plsin wrong from a historical perspective.
First the influx of Italians was bound to quota since they as Catholics were considered a danger to democracy as they looked for spiritual guidance tl a Foreign Prince.
Today we see Waspism replaced by Spanish - Catholic - Temperament.
Also when one visits DC and reads the Statutes as set forth by the ones honored in the Temples tbere one cannot understand any of it without a thorough understanding of the Enlightenment and products thereof like NATURaL Law... as I hinted at by quoting Jefferson.
Non of the founders quoted the bible.
I do agree that Catholicism re Vance, Rubiio, etc are better than Communism as practiced by the Catholic Biden. Yet filtered rhrough a MAGA lense I fear Christianity is weaponized ss a political tool that moves, away from the Enlightenment Ideal the USA was founded on by its original architects.
But yeah.... In general Christian principles are so unique, so precious, so superior to any other fsith that it may wither the storms of poliitical abuse.
Nck
El problema es que these people have also embraced white nationalism, and are rejecting established science. You know, Iran was once quite the advanced and modern nation. Suddenly, they reversed centuries of progress when Ayatollah Khomeini returned from exile. I see the present times in the US as the hard-right Christian equivalent of the Islamic revolution. That's what Project 2025 is all about!
Nothing can save the US from the impending crisis surrounding the national debt. I thought the tariffs were good because the money from them was going to at least make a feeble gesture in that direction. Now, a president with a badly fallen approval rate is going to use it to send out dividend checks!
Come to think of it, I've never been to a COG service where the congregation controlled the building - not rented from others - and had a U.S. flag in it.
That may be erring on the side of caution.
But you'd better not mark Veterans/Remembrance Day at church.
The writers of the declaration were deist. And correct, they did not quote the bible. And it's people's version of their christianity with that nationalism that gets weaponized. Galatians 3:28 solves the enigma, when practiced. But its hard for the Viveks, Kash's and the Dinesh's of the world within MAGA to cosplay.
What's this trip on UCG ministers? I left the WCG before there was any such thing as a splinter! Joe Tkach Sr. was a Preaching Elder at the time. Nothing ever made me want to attend anything started up by anyone rooted in Armstrong. I did enjoy listening to the gospel music sung at the African American church congregation across the street from AC Press though. I thought to myself that if they only let them, our own Colored Brethren could be making wonderful uplifting music like that as special music for us during sabbath services! Too bad the Armstrongs had such provincial attitudes.
nck said: "Non[e] of the [American] founders quoted the bible."
10:22 said: "The writers of the declaration...did not quote the bible."
Both statements are demonstrably false.
Political scientists Donald Lutz and Charles Hyneman conducted a landmark study published in the "American Political Science Review" (1984), analyzing over 15,000 political documents written between 1760 and 1805. They found the Bible accounted for roughly 34% of all citations—by far the most frequently referenced source in the founding era. The next most-cited author, Montesquieu, appeared only about 8% of the time.
Deuteronomy alone was the single most-cited book, surpassing any Enlightenment or classical work. Between 1760 and 1776, the Bible was quoted four times more often than Montesquieu and twelve times more often than Locke.
This data shows that biblical language, ideas, and moral reasoning deeply permeated American political discourse at the time of the founding—a reflection of a generation thoroughly steeped in the KJV Bible and its worldview.
False flag post ! What evidence is there that Herbert Armstrong said ANY flag was pagan ? He repeatedly used the American flag draped on a flag pole as branding for British Israelisim booklets and repeatedly in Plain Truth magazines ect.
Same old arrangements same ole song. And sadly what I saw in a splinter is the same attitude in its core.
Basically all the dystopian literature is based in leftist philosophy…conforming to a hopeless common mold for the population. A Christian “nationalist” philosophy is too far fetched even for dystopian literature.
Satan quoted Scripture too. The PLAIN TRUTH is that the United States is part of the same Babylonian power system that Russia, China, Great Britain, etc. are a part of - The U.S.A. was founded in sin. It is NOT God's nation, and it NEVER has been. Christians are citizens of the Kingdom of God. In this world, we are strangers and pilgrims on the earth. We don't want to be found giving our heart and allegiance to the Beast! Paul was a good citizen of Rome - he obeyed its laws, paid his taxes, and used the privileges to which it entitled him; but his allegiance was always first to Christ and his Kingdom. As Christians, none of us should want to become entangled in civilian affairs!
I hate to introduce some "yeahbuttitus" into the equation, but, I can't recall ever having seen the Stars and Stripes anywhere on the Ambassador College campus during my years there. And, I mean the regular flag. There were, as you say, pictures on the booklets, but no actual flags.
The flag was never trashed by the administration or ministry, but neither did we recite the Pledge of Allegiance at the beginning of classes each day, as we had in primary and secondary school. This was indifference, not hatred or perception of paganism. It was back in the days when members considered themselves to be Ambassadors for Christ, and not of this world. Not even the best church visionaries would have spoken of making America great again, as the official view was that we were watching the heirs to God's promises to Abraham on their final downward slide, a punishment for accepting the blessings, but not showing proper reverence or appreciation through obedience to God, specifically keeping the sabbath and avoiding robbing God by gratefully giving back His tithes instead.
We all have our own views of what may or may not be reality today. There is an abundance of well-researched material which tends to counter and shed doubt upon the rose-colored-glasses view expressed in my paragraph 2 above. However, what I described was the prevailing view throughout so-called "Golden Era" of HWA/WCG/AC.
BB
Miller,
It is foolish to say the U.S. was founded in sin, unless you are meaning a generalized milieu of sin that is present in all societies. Christian faith and expression of belief is more prevalent in the U.S. than in most any other country. That matters. Do I believe that the U.S. is God's nation? No.
But, our country has prospered and I believe that has been due in part to our Christianity.
It was in our churches that De Tocqueville saw the genius of our power and prosperity. As you no doubt recall he said, "America is great, because it is good."
I get your point and I spend less time keeping up with politics, particularly the more sensational. But, involvement in civilian affairs is exactly what Christians should do as best they can. We are made to interact among our fellow travelers and try to make our journey better. Corrupt politics will corrupt a people.
"When the king is righteous the people rejoice."
corollary: The people will be happier with more righteous leaders.
I think that is a good goal in this physical/spiritual life.
Amen to Miller........
Luckily he pauses short of naming the USA as the Beast Power, which is SDA philosophy and remains in the Armstrongist fold with... "Who are the modern Romans?"
😁😁
Nck
Great point Miller & Lonnie, ACOGs make the United States and Britain to be some sort of "israelite darling" lamb nation or something. That it's going to go through captivity again, and again, punished by the assyrians. Like its some kind of underdog thing. This is a nation that wasn't founded the Hebrew Calendar with Holy Days, it wasn't founded on a clean meat dietary understanding, neither was it founded on keeping the seventh day as the sabbath. It's part of that system of the world like all the other kingdoms of the world that rise and fall.
Thank you 9:24 for your very interesting contribution.
Even if I would agree with the sociological aspects of the argument posed.... It fails to understand Masonry, the Temples in DC with hiumans in them the entire grid of the seat of government and basic understanding of, natural law and the philosophical underpinnings of the Enlightenment of that Shining City on the Hill.
Yet.... Society at large was full of Protestant Ethic innits business Ooeration.... ss the editor of the Constitution felt compelled to write his own bible...
😁😁
Anyway. Interesting quotation, thank you.
Nck
Miller Jones/Lonnie C Hendrix, Wednesday, November 12, 2025 at 5:19:58 AM PST, wrote:
"Satan quoted Scripture too. The PLAIN TRUTH is that the United States is part of the same Babylonian power system that Russia, China, Great Britain, etc. are a part of - The U.S.A. was founded in sin. It is NOT God's nation, and it NEVER has been. Christians are citizens of the Kingdom of God. In this world, we are strangers and pilgrims on the earth. We don't want to be found giving our heart and allegiance to the Beast! Paul was a good citizen of Rome - he obeyed its laws, paid his taxes, and used the privileges to which it entitled him; but his allegiance was always first to Christ and his Kingdom. As Christians, none of us should want to become entangled in civilian affairs!"
******
To be specific, you say that: "...Christians are citizens of the Kingdom of God..."
How do you figure that out?
The Kingdom of God has yet to be established on earth some time after Satan, who yes quoted scripture too, exits the pit.
However, a Doug Winnail and other hirelings, all seemingly driven by "another spirit," of the former WCG organization with their versions of "another gospel" are still anticipating, hoping, wishing even that their "another Jesus" will return "very soon," especially before anymore of them take a dirt-nap, to establish a Mickey Mouse Millennium on earth. Time is telling...
Lonnie, perhaps you meant that Paul, one of many "good" citizens of Rome, actually considered that Christians are: "...ambassadors for Christ,..." (2 Cor 5:20)?
But, time will tell...
Oh, and that Beast? How would one give one's heart and allegiance to the Beast?
6 heads, per Rev 17:7-10, of the Beast have already been fulfilled. The 7th head won't exist until after Satan exits the pit (Rev 20:1-3, 7-8). What happened in between those 2 heads (#6 and #7)? What happened to that Beast? Do any of those remaining hirelings, still alive, of the former WCG really know much of anything worthwhile about that Beast you mentioned.
Are more booklets needed to be printed about principalities (Eph 6:12) and distributed? And, if yes, then why?
Do we still live in a “world held hostage/captive?” It appears that we all may be, to one degree or another, still entangled in civilian affairs,” but…
Time will tell...
John
Dr. Condoleeza Rice used to say that the USA was born with a couple of birth defects. In this, she was acknowledging slavery of Blacks, and the virtual genocide perpetrated against Native Americans (who were mistakenly called "Indians" from the Columbus invasion forward into the 1970s)
Make no mistake about it, the USA has also done many, many good things around the world. But it is not a theocracy presided over by Jesus Christ. Many religions base participants ' ideal behavior on acknowledging sins snd shortcomings, apologizing and correcting them to whatever extent is possible. Doing that on a national basis is not being antipatriotic! It is trying to become the best version of ourselves and our country!
BB
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