Love just flows from the folks in Cincinnati, Ohio. Never has a Church of God had such brotherly love.
Mr. Elliott greeted the Council. He went on to mention that the home office works as a family; they encourage and help each other out. Anyone can go to anyone else at the home office for assistance, and all are pleased to assist one another.
If only that "love" extended outwards to the church members. It is not all rosy out in the land of the sheep.
He emphasized that Jesus is leading this Church to make disciples of all nations (Matthew 28:19- 20). The home office has a responsibility to serve the Church’s needs here at the home office, in the United States, and throughout the world. He expressed that being at the home office has given him a new perspective on how much is done by the home office staff. The staff is giving their all to the advancement of God’s work and they look to God daily for direction and help.
No other COG group is doing a "work" better than UCG. Woo Hoo! But, don't Woo Hoo too much... Elliott goes on to say that the church is not performing well when it comes to younger members. Did anyone know they had any?
Mr. Elliott expressed a renewed focus on young families in the Church who may feel underserved. He mentioned that the Council approved some extra focus on that demographic, which will be reflected in the upcoming Strategic Plan.
Again, we are 30 years down the road and the strategic plan still hasn't been figured out. Never mind that, though; it is important to go and visit other COG groups and strive for agape love.
One thing he did say—and this will set Samuel Kitchen's detectors off—is that when visiting other COG groups, "...the 'children' of God wish for the 'parents' to get back together." Maybe Samuel is the one to do it! But again, do not get too excited because he goes on to say it won't be happening, even after all their repenting and striving.
Mr. Elliott said he recently visited Mr. Gerald Weston and his staff at the Living Church of God offices in North Carolina. He has also recently spoken with Mr. Jim Franks at the COGWA offices. He mentioned that most of what we all do is done in triplicate, such as with offices, hall rentals, travel, and Feast sites, etc. Mr. Elliott assured everyone that while there is no desire to combine, it seems most members wish we were together. He then compared what has happened in some cases to a divorce in a family. He said such splits are painful, messy and are typically private interactions among a few leaders without members being fully aware or participating. He also mentioned that currently, the “children” of God wish for the “parents” to get back together. He said that, “it does not seem realistic at this point, so we all need to move forward, repenting and striving with agape love and respect for one another and the work we are performing for Jesus Christ.”
Then Elliott goes on to say this:
He explained that Jesus desires that God’s children all be one (John 17:20-21), and he explained that while we are not all in a single corporation, at least we all need to be one in God and Jesus Christ by having an agape mindset. Let’s all help each other in striving to do just that, please.
Really? How can they when they all believe things that are at odds with each other's groups? It's not a big COG ecumenical love fest as he thinks.
26 comments:
Gamaliel's Axiom is clearly in play, and they don't even know it!
BB
Don't think we can't see what you cowardly UCG ministers are doing here. You will praise Mr Elliott up one side and own the other, and then come here and stab him in the back.
BB, do you really expect COG folk to even know what that is? If it isn't in a booklet, magazine, or reprint article, they won't know what it is.
The only group more divided than the ACOGs seems to be the orthodox "Christianity." None of these churches have the spirit of God. If they did, there would be no division in the "Christian" church. Christ is NOT divided.
Any time someone with their palm out for money tells you "its a family", run.
If Gamaliel's Axiom were true, this would prove that Islam is God's will for mankind, as it is growing more quickly than any other religion and by the end of this century, maybe even as soon as 2050, will surpass Christianity as the world's predominant religion. Also, Gamaliel's Axiom runs fully counter to the idea of a "Gideon's Army" and the idea that the one true church will remain tiny.
No, I don't, 9:22! That is precisely why I have cited it!!! Although Acts 5:34-39 was taught to us at Ambassador College Bible Class, I would imagine that from about 1995 forward, the era of the splinters, the ACOGs would have ceased acknowledging those verses. They point out some inconvenient realities regarding the Armstrong Movement, which (pun most definitely intended) took a major dump!
The power to get out their half a gospel message was irreparably broken, and one government from the top down, allegedly "God's Government on Earth" became fragmented into impotent little splinters. Spewed from the mouth of God? I think so!
BB
We had a commenter here for a while (they might still be around) who liked to characterize it as the "disUnited Church of Godlessness" and as "ungodly people playing church".
The Churches of Greed don't get it even when it is written. They choose what Herbie sez a verse sez over what the verse sez. They don't know that what the verse sez is not what Herbie sez it sez, and that what Herbie sez it sez is not what the verse sez.
They don't care about the church, just smearing it on here all the time. shameful and deceitful men (and the wife of one of the men). I would not want to be them when they have to stand before God and answer for what they do here.
Turning on President John Elliot now ? Or is this a fake attack? One wonders. Although Elliots phone call to Franks will not go down well with a certain element of 'COGWA haters' within UCG.
Hey BB, I had never heard of Gamaliel's Axiom before, until now. But I'm from down under and we're only just learnt to read and write lol. Had to look it up and found it most interesting. Learning never stops, unless you're stuck in Armstrongism ha ha. Cheers.
Welcome to the wonderful world of Armstrongism, a state of existence in which participants believe they aways win! As a fully accredited Armstrongite, depending on the condition of your church, you have the incredible advantage of citing either Gamaliel or Gideon to prove your church is the one and only! (what is this trip on the G's anyhow???).
Seriously, you can't continue citing Gideon to prove your validity if the small group is not getting the job done! Getting the work done is the Biblical constant. The half a gospel message must go out in power, regardless of the size of your church! What's the street buzz? That's what I wanna know! Who has even heard of you or your little pissant group???
One phenominum I observed when I attended services was that the more Pharisaic the member, the more frequently they quoted the bible and with exaggerated 'conviction'. The same was true for the ministers.
Happy Sabbath Dr. Thiel (if your are reading this).
A Mr. Elliott said, “He mentioned that most of what we all do is done in triplicate, such as with offices, hall rentals, travel, and Feast sites, etc. Mr. Elliott assured everyone that while there is no desire to combine, it seems most members wish we were together. He then compared what has happened in some cases to a divorce in a family….and he explained that while we are not all in a single corporation, at least we all need to be one in God and Jesus Christ by having an agape mindset.”
MY COMMENT – I’m not sure what the motivation is for Mr. Elliott to make these useless statements other than to acknowledge the obvious and communicate that UCG is not exclusively “God’s only Church” as HWA and RWCG use to preach. Nothing will happen as a result. Later in life after preaching exclusivity, HWA had to finally admit the dead Sardis era GOG7D was also God’s Church so I guess UCG is formally acknowledging that there are true Christian’s in the ACOGs even if they might be Laodicean. These seem to be consistent with statements Elliott was quoted as making in a recent Post here on Banned. HWA was not so kind when it came to the Splinters that occurred while he was still alive.
Elliott is saying the obvious that there is no “economies of scale” in the Splinters with everything done in triplicate as inefficient, wasted redundancy. It’s more than triplicate if other ACOGs are included beyond LCG and COGWA. As we have said many times, the ACOGS are low-wattage works. The sum of their parts do not equal the whole. They are having zero impact. Few have ever heard of them.
Elliott also inadvertently admits a truth that we all already know - that Armstrongism (or, at least this branch of Armstrongism) doesn’t listen to its own members! The elite minister assures everyone in the room that there is no desire to combine, but most of the lowly tithe-paying members “wish we were together”. Hmm!
Elliott’s divorce case example falls apart because the “Children” of the R/WCG divorce aren’t really children anymore. At best, they are adults in their early 30s if 1996 is used as the date little Joey Tkach overtly shrunk the Church and went mainstream. They have no experience of the “Glory years” of the R/WCG. Elliott would have to be referring to the middle age children ages 50+ that were old enough to remember HWA alive and remember the Glory Days when the R/WCG movement was at its peak. I am talking 10,000+ members at individual Feast of Tabernacles Festival sites.
It must be very discouraging for the remaining remnant ACOG parent members and their middle aged adult children of the R/WCG to see these low wattage works accomplishing literally nothing, and also remember back when FOT sites used to attract 8,000 - 10,000 members per site and when there were 3 Ambassador College campuses. Today, there is no scale whatsoever as Elliott appears to be pointing out. Today, a large FOT site attracts a few hundred people, and there is no Ambassador College (let alone 3 campuses).
Armstrongism displays what happens to a once successful religious movement with the wrong gospel and the wrong prophetic messages.
Richard
Elliott is saying the obvious that there is no “economies of scale” in the Splinters with everything done in triplicate as inefficient, wasted redundancy.
ACOG ministers are generally not very hard workers. If UCG, COGWA and LCG combined, they wouldn't cut their administrative work by 2/3; they would come very close to tripling the size of their administrative staff (after using the merger as an excuse to lay off a very few out-of-favor ministers and Home Office workers).
Most of what Elliott says is useless. Have you read any of his weekly member letters? It's been a long time since I've seen someone use so many words to say so little.
" Thumbs up " ...
Everybody here knows I'm a rock n roller from way back, and that I use use musical analogies and metaphors. They've always been about life, at least for me. For our generation, it was always the sound track for life, so they loom as powerful. Plus, the Armstrongs always repudiated that genre of music because it was a greater phenomenon than them!
We've all heard stories of "getting the band back together". Members of once hugely popular bands that broke up years ago realize that their fans want to see and hear the music played live one more time, they see the factors and differences that seemed so important when they broke the band up as no longer being insurmountable, and although some of the members have already gone to rock n roll heaven, they hook up with some other pros and put it all back together. I'm thinking of Thin Lizzy and "One Night in Dublin, A Tribute to Phil Lynott". Check out "The Cowboy Song" , it's on You Tube. The Irish, doin' it!
Now, here's the thing. Thin Lizzy was and is a thing! A real thing! But, the most stalwart of the COGlodytes would hold their noses and dismiss them just as quickly as they do the Antenicene Fathers. And this is only one exemplary band, others could certainly be cited. What do they know, that would-be Armstrongite leaders do not? Could it be that these ACOG leaders know deep down that Armstrongism has always been "Milli Vanilli"? A manufactured, and fake band that was exposed, stripped of its awards and lost its wealth and became infamous rather than infamous? No more airplay?
The fact that the R/WCG and its splinters were not and are not the real thing is perfectly illustrated by the fact that they do not, and never will "put the band back together." If God were behind them, wouldn't He be "unhardening" their hearts? Inspiring those with power to shed their differences and bad feelings, and reunite to play the music with power once again? The late HWA and the late GTA used to proclaim, as they begged for our financial resources, that a dying nation, a dying world desperately needed the message they preached! There are many who look around them and conclude that what they see today is exponentially worse than anything unfolded during the time and date stamped heyday of Armstrongism. The fact that Armstrongism was never what it was advertised as being is evident from the fact that the splinters cannot get it back together to get their message out!
BB
7:47, the problem isn't quoting the Bible too much, it's not quoting it enough and applying it.
We're not getting anywhere by muttering our own opinions and paraphrases, rewordings and rephrasings all the time. You see this above where they "assure everyone there's no desire to combine (no desire to combine? How is that reassuring?)" or "it's not realistic (meaning that someone is unfaithful) for us to get back together" or "we can be all one in God and Christ even if we are separately organized". Lots of carnality here.
Meanwhile Christ's prayer is that we be one, and have a desire and will to be one. And, no, you're not one with God or Christ if you are divided from your brethren. Yet you can be one with God wherever you are if you believe and obey Him, but you're not one in Christ if you consciously separate from your brethren.
The elders could do it but, as many have noted, they can't agree on either spiritual or admin matters because of greed, doubts, faithlessness, idolatry, vanity, double-mindedness, distrust, love of money, fear of suffering loss, etc. etc. etc.. Disagreeing itself is a sin (Rom 1:31, covenant-breakers is asunthetos which means disagreeing) They won't tell you that of course because they don't want you to judge them or take away your tithes. But they WILL judge you for YOUR flaws and question YOUR morality and dedication.
It's amazing how all these groups can agree on stuff like the BI doctrine, but they can't agree to join back together. I'm the leader, , no I'm the leader, no i'm the leader, no no no, I AM THE LEADER!
Only a fool would pay heed to Gamaliel's do-nothing "axiom".
I am of Paul. I am of Apollos. Are ye not carnal?
I am of orthodoxy. I am of HWA. I am of Pack. I am not of any of them. I am of Jesus. Are ye not carnal?
And yet, It has been preserved in the Bible, 11:31! As is II Tim. 3:16-17. Don't you think that when God inspired Gamaliel (Paul's early teacher) to say that, He knew that man would not heed, and would try to alter the event or fulfillment, ie case in point,, but God would bring it to pass in spite of whatever Herculian efforts were made to the contrary?
I take your comment just as seriously as I do the comments some folks around here use in an attempt to break Deuteronomy 18:15-22. The fate and future of Armstrongism and the ACOGs has become obvious, just as have the work of their false prophets. Of course you could tune into the latest from Parousia-forecaster David C. Pack! That is your right and privilege.
Yes! Current ACOG status tracks well with what God did to the Tower of Babel construction project, 11:09. N'est ce pas?
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