The Lurkers Church of God--The Fall (Out) of Our Discontent
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Yesterday:
370
30 day
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Record: 838 on October 8,
2011
There is evidently no
comparison between the number of good folk who take the time to comment or
invest in the thought processes necessary to comment on the various postings
with regards to the WCG experience and all the abiding fall out, and those that
quietly lurk.
As far as I can tell, there may be a total of 20 or so
regular responders to any or all of the topics presented here, which despite the
discomfort level some provoke, are here to help those sincerely wanting to break
the ties and live in a bigger box than the one provided by the splinters and
slivers in the COG remnants. As you can see, many hundred more just
"lurk."
I understand lurking. We want to believe
something is true and yet we have a niggly feeling in our souls that all might
not be as presented. We dismiss the feeling and yet sometimes we just have to
keep up with the other points of view that sometimes seem more right.
Perhaps they must make us think.
I understand very well how "loyalty" can keep you from
being more honest or speaking up in one's church. I also understand
sitting in an audience that I am supposed to have everything in common with,
listening to everything from announcements to sermonettes and sermons and
quietly telling myself, "this is such bullshit, but maybe next week will be
something that inspires me." I've listened to the big plans of the
bigger church for preaching their gospel and thought, "that won't work," or
"Jeez, if Jesus is about to return soon, what's with building a college with a
spiffy multimillions dollar price, coming out of my pocket not
theirs? Is that not holding two opposing views in one
sentence?"
How many times were you assured that when people see
our new headquarters, they will come to the truth because they will see how God
himself plants trees and flowers, plays sports, dresses and honors the
guru! I bet not one person ever came into any church because of the
quality of the cover. Unfortunately they do come because of the seeming
truth of the contents, if they don't ever do any further homework on the
matter.
So why do people "Lurk"? These are just my
opinions, but judging from the numbers, I would bet every COG minister, Prophet,
Priest, Apostle and Witness stops in from time to time. It's just too hard
not to. I imagine a good number of FOT goers are reading this right now
:)
IMHO COGers lurk because:
They are not quite sure they are getting the whole story at Church
They have the same doubts and fears about trusting just one guy to tell them how it all is.
As a teen in the "Church my parents go to," I 'd like to know if there is something I am needing to consider before i give my life resources to such ideas.
As a minister, I ignored the problems I saw in the Armstrong's, the Tkaches and whoever to my harm and I won't ignore this guy and the unease he sometimes causes me.
I am a true believer and hate this blog and sometimes just can't help but let them know how wrong they are.
I find it difficult to let go of the experience without at least learning what went wrong and why I allowed myself to live in such a small theological world. (This is ME)
I'm mad as hell and I'm not takin' it any more!
I find comfort in knowing others think as I do as I reflect on this whole experience
I want to know what's being said but I don't want to know what's being said, but i do want to know what's being said, but I will act like I don't know what's being said because what's being said is disturbing to my status quo.
I used to be able to say whatever I wanted as a minister or member and never got called out on it but NOW I have to see what's being said about me.
I didn't know there were so many interesting other ways to see the Bible, its origins or politics and I like this place.
I don't feel so cut off from my experience even though I have lost all church friends and feel depressed when don't stay in touch
I'd like to say something or comment, but it might get back to my church.
If I do say something its not going to be anonymous, but if I do otherwise, it might get back to my church.
Lurking is my hobby
Lurking is safer than speaking up
I'm afraid of my minister, friends, Jesus, God or even Satan finding out I lurk.
I don't know why I lurk. It's a bad habit but I just can't stop doing it.
Lurking rocks! I lurk at church, work and at Wal-mart, so why not here?
I love lurking to see what the jerks, fools, buttheads and reprobates are saying now!
I feel more true and holy lurking with those that will be fuel for the Lake of Fire
Well I think we get the point. On top of that we
might ask why do most who speak up do so without letting others know who they
really are? See above I guess. Some like to snipe but never want it
known where the shot came from. Others have to have the last word I'm
sure. It's all very interesting.
I think lurking is also a sign of the struggle most
have with being authentically themselves, no matter the belief or experience,
and belonging to an organization where they all have to speak the same thing,
which of course, has never truly happened nor is possible in reality in the
history of church. It's an illusion and of course no one ever would
believe that members 'all THINK the same thing." Sooner or later one is
confronted with "I'm sitting down on the outside Mr. Minister, but I am standing
up on the inside."
So, for all who lurk...
Authenticity is the alignment of head, mouth, heart, and feet - thinking, saying, feeling, and doing the same thing - consistently. This builds trust, and followers love leaders they can trust.
That inner voice has both gentleness and clarity. So to get to authenticity, you really keep going down to the bone, to the honesty, and the inevitability of something.
The accusation that we've lost our soul resonates with a very modern concern about authenticity.
We need to find the courage to say NO to the things and people that are not serving us if we want to rediscover ourselves and live our lives with authenticity.
I've always told people
who are at crossroads or have to make a choice or decision about something of
consequence to ask, "How does this serve me?" I realize in the WCG/COG
experience, and perhaps even as one reads the Bible, "Me" never counts and we
are all to love other's better than ourselves. I always wondered if that
is true...what are the others who are loved supposed to
do!
It always pays to ask
"How does this serve me?" If the answer is helpful to your growth
and understanding then good on ya! If it helps move you along the
path a little further or give you the courage to be yourself and finding that
just fine and ok, then good on ya! I suppose even if it makes you
feel superior to the fools who comment on this blog, good on you for now I
suppose.
The Karma Fairy also
has a habit of lurking...
:)
Can I get an "Amen"?
22 comments:
You miss out on responders because they cant get thru, especially when they need copy the word verification that often gets rejected by the system
so where's my comment?
Right there!
When I was part of WCG, I craved an interactive relationship with God, and the spiritual component which naturally accompanies that relationship. I knew that I was not receiving that, and suspected that many of the people around me in both church and Ambassador College, while they had indeed made many modifications to their behavior to conform to church doctrine and practices, might possibly not be receiving the spiritual component either.
The Spirit's gift of prophecy was clearly being faked, as prior to 1972 we had been taught three separate supposedly Bible-based mathematical equations "proving" that Jesus had to return in 1975, and then, when Jesus failed to honor HWA's guessed schedule, they suddenly switched to "Brethren, we never set dates!"
Healing in "God's True Church" was another gift which was being faked, as scores or hundreds of people were dying "in the faith" and what few healings actually did occur were either questionable, or relatively minor.
God's supposed system of "government from the top down" was revelled in both intrusively and oppressively, and did untold damage to members' spiritual development by usurping the Spirit's personalized transformation of their hearts and minds, and making this process a function of ministerial police work instead. Clearly, this was a church which either did not understand, or did not trust the Holy Spirit!
Still, I stuck around for a number of years, mainly because I thought that perhaps my parents who had handed me this religion, or other members and ministers either knew or perceived something which for some reason I did not. In fact, that underlying thought persisted and continued to nag me throughout the thirty years which I later spent as a non-believer.
Fortunately, God came crashing back into my life about five years ago, and I was led into a personal relationship with Him, this time with the spiritual component I had sought actually being present. I enjoy reading and studying my Bible, being allowed to let God lead me as opposed to being commanded as to what conclusions I must reach. I also love and look forward to prayer. All of this has placed me into a state of mind where I no longer wonder about the possibility of HWA/WCG being right. I know exactly how they have been blinded, why they are indeed a false church or deception, and why I had never received the spiritual component Christians understand must be present.
The Cliff's notes are that WCG doctrine is based upon the legalistic shadows of the Old Covenant, and does not properly treat or deal with the Holy Spirit's work in God's children. The teachings of HWA can therefore only bring new levels of emptiness into members' lives, and often depression, unChristian behavioral patterns, elitism, and suspicions about ministerial authoritarianism.
Armstrongism is a defective product, which just does not work in the ways that being a disciple of Jesus Christ is described throughout the New Testament.
BB
You get an "amen" from me, Dennis.
I'm happy BB has found peace, but there's no way I'll ever see it as genuine and real. More feel good stuff as far as I'm concerned.
I believe we have honor everyone's path. We are all different. We all filter our world and our experiences differently. There is no way for one to not be who they are at any one moment in an experience. It's just how life works.
That is why I could never understand how any group could ever think they all must "speak the same thing." It is impossible. Those claim they do have simply bullied the weak minded into compliance and sent their real selves undercover.
It is both wrong and ultimately fruitless to try to do that.
@ Allen: Agreed 100%
@ Dennis: Good read, per usual. I think that in hindsight, "all one body we" was naught but a pipe dream. Then again, 500+ Splinter groups speak volumes in that area.
Dennis,
I lurk for several reasons but the major reason is that I have relatives still in a couple of these groups and I look for news about their groups.
Besides that, I enjoy the humor in this blog.
I agree with you that we each have our own path. People's stories can be amazing.
Stephen
I have nothing to do with the "word verification" That is a Google "Blogger" issue and something they created to stop spam. It even happens to me occasionally and I have to dump my cookies and then it all works.
"It even happens to me occasionally and I have to dump my cookies and then it all works."
Is that like tossing your cookies?
Well I almost tossed my cookies when I heard Herbie bellowing on Benjamin Grant Mitchell's Inside Edition story. That is a sound I never want to hear again! :-)
I generally do lurk because any time I have written a comment, it goes un-noticed so therefore it might stand to reason that what I may have to say on any topic discussion does not generate enough interest from those who do not lurk. Not feeling sorry for myself but just stating a fact.
Regarding God and our spirituality: This is something that was brought out to me by the RCG (Radio Church of God) and revised by my own studies as fitting to my life. Each of us has a personal agenda and that drives our bus. I currently am attending the CEM feast site and finding it a not unpleasant experience. Having the luxury of focusing on my life and how it is run for eight days brings with it a certain enjoyment and benefit. Hard to actually feel I am "keeping" it re: OT style. But, this is the revised edition styled to life in 2011. Right? Wrong? Only time will tell and personally there is no harm to me singing, listening to interesting concepts and seeing friends new and old. Nuff said, Adele
@ Adele: So I take it you're not tithing to this group?
Good point Adele and many are comfortable with that. I know so many, and even extended family, who attend a feast site in a beautiful location, enjoy it all and yet never go to one service! It's a mental habit.
I do miss it. I expect I'd not make it to the lobby! :)
Just sharing a current FOT family experience:
Sister, whose husband now deceased, was full time WCG minister, and nephew were going to spend half a feast this year with LCG in Cobbleskill NY. My nephew, formerly of UCG was sent a message that he could not attend until he talked to the Minister in charge of the site Mr.______ _______.
Sooooo he and my widowed COG sister decided to screw it and go see family. Nice going LCG!!!
Go ye therefore......
Anonymous said...
"I generally do lurk because any time I have written a comment, it goes un-noticed so therefore it might stand to reason that what I may have to say on any topic discussion does not generate enough interest from those who do not lurk. Not feeling sorry for myself but just stating a fact."
MY COMMENT: I don't think any comment goes un-noticed.I read every comment, even Dennis' redundancy. :-) Just kidding, Dennis. You write some good stuff.
"Regarding God and our spirituality: This is something that was brought out to me by the RCG (Radio Church of God) and revised by my own studies as fitting to my life. Each of us has a personal agenda and that drives our bus. I currently am attending the CEM feast site and finding it a not unpleasant experience. Having the luxury of focusing on my life and how it is run for eight days brings with it a certain enjoyment and benefit. Hard to actually feel I am "keeping" it re: OT style. But, this is the revised edition styled to life in 2011. Right? Wrong? Only time will tell and personally there is no harm to me singing, listening to interesting concepts and seeing friends new and old. Nuff said, Adele"
MY COMMENT: So, you feel that keeping the feast is necessary and pleasing to god, or just to make you feel good about yourself? How are you keeping it New Testament style as opposed to Old Testament style? Wow! I have a lot of questions about the "harm" issue, but I don't want to overwhelm you.
Some people are outspoken. Some are not. "Lurking" just doesn't appeal to me.
If I hid behind a fictitious title and wouldn't reveal my real name, with no reason like being threatened with death or harm, I'd feel cowardly. I'm not ashamed of my stance on any topic. If I'm shown to be mistaken, I will own and admit it. That's the only way to grow.
Rod Meredith's big push on opening night was "submission to God's government." Of course, by this Rod means, "Submission to me. I am God's government on earth. You must submit to me as you would submit to God." RCM is too afraid to state his true meaning so boldly, so he couches it in politically palatable terms.
Rod Meredith's other unbiblical tirade on opening night was yet again slamming all the other churches of God. By doing so, he causes division in the body of Christ and sows discord among brethren. According to Proverbs 6 then, God hates Rod Meredith. Why does Rod do this? Because the more he can turn his LCG people against the rest of the body of Christ, the more secure his position and power is.
Anonymous said...
"Rod Meredith's big push on opening night was "submission to God's government." Of course, by this Rod means, "Submission to me. I am God's government on earth. You must submit to me as you would submit to God." RCM is too afraid to state his true meaning so boldly, so he couches it in politically palatable terms."
MY COMMENT: He knows it won't be long until his clock will stop. He wants to make sure that everyone follows his successor, probably his son.
Anonymous said...
"Rod Meredith's other unbiblical tirade on opening night was yet again slamming all the other churches of God. By doing so, he causes division in the body of Christ and sows discord among brethren. According to Proverbs 6 then, God hates Rod Meredith. Why does Rod do this? Because the more he can turn his LCG people against the rest of the body of Christ, the more secure his position and power is."
MY COMMENT: I think division is already a done deal in the "churches of god". If I was a betting person, I would bet when Rod finally croaks, there will be yet another division.
Ohh, wow, comments to my post - unprecedented. Thanks to all who commented. Just empowers me somehow....
Okay, first Jace:
Don't tithe, don't work. But, have certainly supported the efforts. At CEM, they do not take up offerings for the "work" but rather to support the yearly FoT instead. I contribute to both efforts.
Second, Steve:
Hmm, a little edge Steve to your comments, but well, okay I deal with that.
The question you asked about keeping FoT 'necessary and pleasing to God' - well, jury is out on necessary. Would it please God to know that I care enough to spend eight days sitting and listening - well, if I were God, that would make me pleased. If the days are not to be kept now, and I still did it with others, would God think that a bad thing? I don't think 'bad' would come to mind but rather confused. However, in my situation there is no 'harm' to this and I send nor share no 'harm' to others in my participating. If someone would be harmed, that is bad.
As to how the FoT is observed now: Obvious: hotels and no animal sacrifices, among other things.
The thought and theory behind the continued teaching that the days picture a world with peace is one I embrace because it is something needed for us all. No one doesn't want to be happy. People want no harm done to them or others. I cannot deny it is appealing to me. Plus, it is just plain enjoyable to hear lovely music, gain insight and be friendly.
You most likely could 'overwhelm' me so you better not talk about what you mean by 'harm' - probably couldn't take it from you, Steve.
Pleasant days, Adele
bunlaPeople want no harm done to them or others.
What I've noticed is that most Armstrongists have a raging hard-on about wanting harm to come to those who believe differently than them.
It gives them a twisted sense of peace.
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