Wes White writes:
I can’t believe i once thought GTA was a great speaker! Just listen to the nonsense in this clip! The old Ambassador Report once rightly labelled Ted’s preaching style as “hallucinatory braggadocio.” I don't remember ever hearing any Christian love in his messages. Just prophetic warnings that, if you don't heed my message, you will be killed or taken into slavery by the German beast power. That is, if disease and pestilence don't kill you first. (Remember the Basil Wolverton pictures of people with boils all over their bodies? And the guy with a spear thru his neck?)
Looking back, i now find Ted’s nastiness and negativity unsettling. I now find his name-calling repugnant. As i recently watched this clip, i was reminded of Joe McCarthy’s drunken rants that included half-baked accusations against “all those communists” who had supposedly infiltrated the US State Department during his time. Both practiced demagoguery.
Yes, politicians and preachers love to create boogeymen for us to hate and fear.
And the false prophecy in this clip is hilarious. Ted spoke these words in 1992 during the Clinton Presidency. In this message, he falsely claimed that America would never again win some conflict and then proudly wave the Stars and Stripes as was done in the First Gulf War.
Apparently, the evil spirit that inspired him to utter this false prophecy was not aware that the second George Bush would soon — not only defeat Saddam Hussein — but that Bush II would also topple the Iraqi dictator from power.
Finally, it is public knowledge that Ted served in the US Navy. However, after his subsequent conversion to the WCG and promotion to being one its top leaders, he presided over an organization that forbade the young men in the church to join the armed forces. While enforcing this prohibition, Ted had the audacity to preach military saber rattling and military action. You can’t have it both ways.
What was wrong with me for falling in with this group led by people with so much personal, religious, and corporate dysfunction? Call me namby-pamby, but i find more helpful teachings in Matthew 5, 6, and 7 than in Ted’s sermons.
It is clear to me that, when i read the hateful rants of Mark Armstrong today, his teachings are an almost carbon copy of his dad’s futile blusterings. Until recently, i had forgotten how messed up Ted’s messages were.
May God forgive us for supporting men like this. For those of us who claim to be Christians, it’s time for us to repudiate these twisted prophetic teachings. It’s all done for financial gain. These teachings appeal to our basic instincts. They bring out the worst in us.
Instead, let’s embrace the wonderful teachings of the Word of God — remembering that while Armstrongism’s teachings and Bible teachings would often converge, the teachings in this clip are NOT biblical. They are not of God.
Wes White has a self-funded ministry called dynamicchristianministries.org that does not ask for and does not accept donations from the public. Wes may be reached at wdwhite49@yahoo.org.
46 comments:
Ted says in his diatribe posted here , (and with great emphasis) that the QUEERS and EFFEMINATE are abominations in 1Corinthians 6:9
For interesting and telling reasons , GTA leaves off ragging on fornicators, adulterers, thieves and drunkards.
It doesn't take a genius to understand why Ted ommitted these. However, scripture does strongly condemn "those that are concerned about a speck in your friend's eye when you have a log in your own"
1Cor 6:9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals,[a] nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.
Ted had to learn the hard way that "he who lives by the sword, will die by the sword".
I never could stand sermons by GTA. He always spoke as though he knew everything and we the listeners knew absolutely nothing. He was a jackass!
The MIND behind the CULT
CGI and ICG (Garner Ted Armstrong)
Leader: The mind of a playboy at play with co-eds, stewardesses, secretaries, masseuses, etc.
Members: The non-thinking mind that was obviously Born to Lose.
“COG Evangelist Rails Against 'Queers' & 'Hippie' Bill Clinton”
That's strange that he would do that. I thought that Teddy the Dink had said that the most horrible, ghoulish, unforgivable thing one could do was to “traffic in other people's sins.”
I suppose GTA just meant that nobody was supposed to say anything about his own sins.
After GTA's own loving father HWA was finally forced to boot GTA out of the WCG openly and permanently in 1978, nobody should have listened to that babbler ever again. Anyone who wasted any more time listening to GTA after 1978 has only their own stupidity, rebelliousness, and sinfulness to blame.
GTA was a very good speaker in terms of delivery. Just as HWA had a forceful speaking style somewhat reminiscent of FDR which was well-suited to the early days when radio technology was somewhat more primitive, GTA had a more intimate style perfectly suited to the improved technology of the 1960's and beyond. He could have read the phone book and made it sound interesting. I once read that he was offered a job doing secular conservative commentary but turned it down. I don't know if that is true, but when it came to delivery he was as good as anyone on the radio. His message was another matter. At one point I sort of bought into his evolution messages such as the one about how the anglerfish could never have survived without a full-blown built-in bait organ, but years later I realized just how anti-science he was when he ridiculed the idea of Martian meteorites which had been positively identified by scientists as Martian due to traces of the Martian atmosphere which were trapped inside them. He also said that in the wonderful world tomorrow you wouldn't normally need to go anywhere but if you did you would be transported by mighty angel. "Zowie!" thought I. "I don't want to travel by angel, and won't I be a spirit being anyway so I can go anywhere I want anytime I want?" GTA was very convincing; that's how he got away with his sexual exploits for many years. You just have to learn to think a bit to counter the charms of such a character.
so why do you keep on listening to it anyway? If you don't believe what the COG's believe? Why do you spend so much energy and time on your blogposts? I mean, if you don't believe what others believe why not move on to your next level of life? rather than sneering and laughing about them not that I am a GTA fan but your actions does not make sense. Or is it ego that you want to think that you guys are better off than these stupid COGs? I say move on with your life NO2HWA and Dennis Diehl, grow some tomatoes and cucumbers and little kitties too ;) or maybe there is a deep reason behind this blogpost that you people really care?
I read on another dissident site that GTA had a gay boyfriend himself. This site claimed that Herb tried to convince him to shun the homosexuality and stick with womanizing instead. I haven't read confirmations on this on other sites though.
Since you are most likely a hit and run commenter, I will answer you anyway. You apparently have not paid much attention over the last 8 years or so to what has been posted here by Dennis or myself.
I actually don't have many negative experiences with the church and particularly with the people. The problem I have is with the liars and abusers of the brethren running many of the current COG's. These sick men have been ripping apart members lives for decades as they run one religious scam after another. Building grandiose palaces in their honor, living like rich megalomaniacs with the tithe money, destroying marriages, breaking up families due to "no contact" policies, sexually abusing children, raping female members, stalking female members, and much much more.
These legalistic degenerate pigs deserve no respect and need to be exposed. From self-appointed charlatans like Bob Thiel to the abusive jackasses like Gerald Flurry, Dave Pack and Rod Meredith/Gerald Weston. These men have run rampant in the church for far too long and they need to be exposed for the vile men that they are.
With over 5.5 million hits by COG members and ex-members over the last 8 years shows the world that there is indeed something tragicaly wrong with the Church of God. You are free to stick your head in the sand and think otherwise, but it still cannot negate the evil that is still done.
There are plenty of COG members who live deeply enriched lives by sincerely following the Bible as they see it. They treat each other with respect and care for those less fortunate., something most of their leaders refuse to do and NEVER have done.
7:51 wrote: "I read on another dissident site that GTA had a gay boyfriend himself. This site claimed that Herb tried to convince him to shun the homosexuality and stick with womanizing instead. I haven't read confirmations on this on other sites though."
There is a comment on the other GTA thread (Blast from the Past) about this very thing. Check it out.
The rants against GTA and HWA from ex-members are often less accurate and less biblical than GTA's message.
I don’t recall GTA being this extreme prior to 1975.
We must remember that there were several factors in play right after the 1992 elections. First, even in spite of the Ross Perot factor, Republicans had been shocked by the defeat of Bush I, although he had not really taken Bill Clinton sufficiently seriously, and had therefore not campaigned “as if he meant it”. This was the Republican “Camelot” which had suddenly been lost, having started with the election of Ronald Reagan, and continuing through the first Bush term. It was widely viewed as a stinging repudiation, and in the aftermath, there was a lot of hate speech directed towards the new president, the inclusionism of diversity in his cabinet and staff, and with regard to several key issues including gun control, gays in the military, and universal healthcare. Eight years later, President Clinton was seen as having been perhaps the most Republican acting Democratic president the nation had ever known. But at the time GTA made this address, in keeping with Armstrongite cliches and conditions, it must have appeared to him as if the end was imminent.
So far as usage of slurs is concerned, generally, there is an unwritten rule. Members of different groups can use the slurs on one another, but it is a major offense if people in the mainstream use them on them. In fact, in using those slurs, the likely outcome to expect would be violence, end to a once promising career, or in the very least, marginalization. GTA impudently violated this rule, and in so doing offended members of his audience, and lost credibility as any sort of serious commentator. But, Rush Limbaugh was getting away with doing the same thing at the same time, so GTA was never taken to task. This new GTA, the imitator of 1990s hate radio, was apparently very influential on his son Mark, and apparently this is the example Mark chooses to follow today.
Finally, 1992 was twenty years after the Germans were supposed to have come rolling in, and although GTA had been presiding over the Armstrong-manufactured event horizon on radio and TV, by 1992, he had to have been both battle weary and frustrated by 1) having been personally diminished and sidelined, and 2) the fact that the event somehow never seemed to get around to happening. After all, he, too, had wasted his entire adult life on his father’s false prophecy. We can surely understand his lectures taking on a more angry, biting, and acerbic tone.
Thanks for sharing this archive. This is apparently an example of how GTA developed in the years when he was no longer dominated by his father, and it appears that what we see is simply a continuation of his being his own worst enemy. Tragic.
BB
I agree.
I actually don't have many negative experiences with the church and particularly with the people. The problem I have is with the liars and abusers of the brethren running many of the current COG's. These sick men have been ripping apart members lives for decades as they run one religious scam after another. Building grandiose palaces in their honor, living like rich megalomaniacs with the tithe money, destroying marriages, breaking up families due to "no contact" policies, sexually abusing children, raping female members, stalking female members, and much much more
But over the many posts that I've read, it sure paints the whole collective 500 plus offshoots as one big sham and there is nothing sincere and truthful anymore. I don't want to be deceived let alone I can't throw everything out just because these men make bad decisions and wrong choices. Fruits. Truth is clean. And i plan to stick to my guns. But why not make posts out of FACTS ONLY and not on hearsay by disgruntled members who maybe throwing tantrums and fits because they didn't get their candies? I've read many kinds of that here.
yuk, he sure looks ugly as an old man. The truth shows in his face. He was one of those men who could probably have sex with anything or anyone, but his prey of choice was young religious virgins. To think that I listened to him for years.
8.35 PM
"But why not make posts out of facts only and not on hearsay.."
I real life, people often have partial information, hence they have to make the best decision possible, using their wisdom and life experiences to guide them. Demanding a court room level of proof in every day life is impractical. Scoundrels and swindlers would largely go undetected, as would rapists.
Typically there is a double standard in this request. Those who demand 'proof' also regard a accusation as a sentence. One standard for me, another for thee.
First time ive heard this and i agree with GTA.
Clinton and his hollywood predator friends who jet to islands to do all kinds of evil will not fair well in history.
He calls himself a "patriot." Well he did serve, so I guess we should thank him for that. Not sure that service was about his "patriotism" though.
Right now there are so many people who on the one hand would tear up the constitution, scrap democracy, and cheer for fascism, and are totally unconcerned that they're unwittingly fulfilling foreign agendas to diminish the standing of their country. Because they're single issue types. If this is what they have to mind everyone else's business, then by golly they'll turn as many blind eyes as necessary. But then they label this treason "patriotism"?
I know Ted is dead and this is old, but still, what's with the political nature of his sermon? Even if he were a patriot, what's that got to do with him, his church, or his members? It's like a first century christian being a cheerleader for Rome.
Ted just sounds like your typical radical RWNJ who just wants to tell everyone else how they have to live their lives, while crying "persecution" when told to mind their own business. Given the quantity of his own business that he didn't want anyone else minding, he really had no right to mind anyone else's business.
Patriot, my ass.
@5:21~ In high school physics class, we were assigned a black box experiment. We had to make an educated guess, based on remaining observational powers or skills, as to what was contained by a square 6” x 6” x 6” box. You could shake it, weigh it, slowly get the object to move around, and make your best guess. At the end of the period, the boxes were opened to reveal how accurate our guesses had been. This black box experiment turned out to be a metaphor for life. There is only so much we can know so long as we are human and restricted to 5 senses and approximately 70 years on the planet. There will always be those who claim to have the system down, and to know all the answers to all of the great philosophical questions, but reality is they don’t know any more than all of the rest of us.
BB
At least GTA has decent bookshelves, and as far as I can tell, none of his own works are on display.
Pat riot
I believe GTA's patriotism was firmly rooted in his belief that the USA was Israel.
Of the two factions in the church. a) Structure, culture, progress, law, foundations etc and b) freedom within law, nature, the wild,etc he represented B
2 sides of the same coin
nck
He'd probably have been all over Pizzagate.
Interesting gay rumor about GTA, Ambassador Report also had similar rumors about Herman Hoeh and Tkach! Just when you thought it couldn't get more bizarre.
Do you realize what pizzagate really is ?
@ 10:36, Rod Meredith, author of "The Plain Truth About Queer Men," may or may not have been looking at gay porn when church members saw him exiting Le Sex Shoppe in Pasadena, but he certainly did surround himself with gays when he started LCG. His biggest bankroller was known to have molested young boys, and over the years Meredith liked to employ effeminate men, some of them never married. Now, did Meredith surround himself with gays because he wanted to have clandestine relations, or did he think he would seem more masculine when surrounded by gays? That we do not know.
The first time BB admits there might have been an enjoyable moment for some (ladies) in wcg and you spoil the moment for the 200 plus lassies by claiming he was gay after all ..........bummer. You guys crack me up,
nck
11:49
As one really close to and distantly related to one of the founders of the illuminati I assure you that the illuminati don't do pizza for dinner.
nck
I have a feeling you're dying to tell us.
I was in the National Guard when I attended WCG, but I never let anybody in the church know that.
I would tell Wes White and anyone else like him still in the COG movement that they should consider the source when they look at other things the Armstrongs came up with or promoted. If HWA & GTA were so corrupt and lacking in integrity, how likely is it that they "restored" the "lost truths" of Christianity after 1,900 years?
We should view with suspicion anything distinctive they promoted to make themselvse look specially called. (That's my opinion, though it's not how I operated when I left Armstrongism.) There is something to be said for the longevity and consistency of historic Christianity, without novel teachings springing from nowhere, and not requiring any number of "restoration" movements. Just plain old Christianity that has been taught for 2,000 years. Jesus said the gates of hell would not prevail against the Church -- not that hell would prevail against it serially until he raises up new restoration movements or dubious apostles here and there to keep reintroducing the "Truth."
Let me say something on behalf of GTA. First, I do not support Armstrongism at all. I believe it is a pathological belief system. But there is something that should be recognized about its theology that forms the back drop to what GTA is saying.
Armstrongist espouses near universal salvation. The belief is that everyone will rise up in the 100 Year Period, the plenary resurrection, receive teaching and nearly all will repent. So when GTA takes shots at various groups he regards to be errant, he also believes at the same time that most will have ultimate salvation after being processed through the 100 Year Period.
This would not be true of an evangelical taking the same jabs. The evangelical would believe that these people are surely hell-bound. Evangelicals cherish the idea of hell and the belief that many people are going there. As Calvin asserted: Hell is copiously populated by infants not a cubit long (because people who died as infants could not confess Christ in this lifetime, hence, were lost. God created them for no other purposed than to be deposited in hell.)
The result is a difference in attitude. There is a callous, mocking element in what the evangelical would say. But for GTA, saying the same thing, there is the back-drop of ultimate near universalism.
Just saying ...
"But why not make posts out of facts only and not on hearsay.."
A large percentage of the people on here are not the slightest bit interested in facts. They prefer lies, or whatever they can use to defame and discredit whoever they don't like. They operate on the principle that if you throw enough mud some of it will stick. That's why this site has no credibility and is almost totally ineffective for converting ACOG members. It is only useful for venting frustrations, keeping up on gossip, and occasionally, steering people to more reliable sources.
GTA should have read "The Myth of German Villainy". He never did, but you can. It kills a lot of fake prophecy all to hell.
5.11 PM
There is no need to defame and discredit the ministers mentioned here since they defame and discredit themselves through their immoral behavior. This site is a consequence of their abuse of members. You are the one throwing mud at, and shooting the messengers.
Thanks 12:23, I forgot to add Meredith to the rumors revealed in Ambassador Report
A people that tells lies cannot survive and has no right to survive.
GTA was right. The right is rising in Europe.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HlP84iYwVbY
NEO
WWCG claiming near universal salvation of mankind is marketing on Herbs part (again). Christ, when questioned on this point, said otherwise. For the sake of church numbers, Herbs church (like the rest of Christianity) hid the true cost of following Christ.
4:20
nonsense
We truly believed that "people who had not heard the truth could not be convicted or judged for that fact." It is a very rational viewpoint and in accordance with legal precepts since ancient times.
No marketing involved, very rational.
And there was also this "narrow gate thing" etc
nck
Nck
I wish it was different, but the following does not sound like near universal salvation to me. Salesman Herb lied.
Matthew 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and FEW there be that find it.
Luke 13:23 Then said one unto him, Lord, are there few that be saved? And he said unto them,
Luke 13:24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.
I also remind you that Christ rebuked His generation for not repenting. It looks bad.
Matthew 12:42 The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for she came from the uttermost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon is here.
10:24
I am not so much a debater on religious topics. But I don't get Mathew 12:42 from your perspective. What does the queen of the south have to do with judging people? How would a female person from Yemen or something judge the jewish people?
That sounds wordly to me. I thought it was Gods prerogative only to judge on matters of eternal life and death. To me it sounds Jesus is just saying "damn you people for not listening" , you are condemned in this life for not liberating yourselves by listening to what I have to say. NOW!
And what about many trying to find "the pot of goodies" at the end of the rainbow? It seems few will find it while salesman Herb said only those who are called. It seems many christians spending a lifetime searching for the prize will not "find" it. So perhaps it is a gift then?
I know many who did many manager courses but only a few should be worthy to really lead a small company. It is not the education one "sought" that will make a good manager or steward. It is the combination of many things and qualities that qualifies the true seeker for anything. Although many today are bestowed with blessings while standing on the shoulders of other giants. This would be impossible for the attainment of eternal life granted by that or him who can and I doubt it some queen of the south enabling that through her judgement, although she might have taste.
nck
Nck
Christ and the Queen of the south is condemning their generation for not repenting, not for 'not listening.'
Matthew 11:21 Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works, which were done in you, had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes.
That the condemning is for not repenting is plain in the following:
Luke_11:32 The men of Nineve shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here.
Christ expected His generation to repent then, not just in the future. The parable of the sower shows that it is past history that strongly influences whether people truly repent and succeed. Looking at the body of evidence, sadly I don't see salvation being near universal.
11:08
Thank you anonymous 11:08 for your perspective. Again I am not a religious debater.
I don't know about the timing of scripture you are quoting.
I'm not sure if "at the time of speaking" jesus was already CHRIST.
In Roman law you cannot give what you donot have. NEMO PLUS principle.
Was Jesus in any position to declare eternal life or eternal death BEFORE his death and sacrifice???
Perhaps he expected repentance of the jews, but knew eternal life was unattainable for men before his sacrifice.
Just like WCG NEVER EVER believed that people would come to church through the world tomorrow broadcast. The broadcast was regarded as a WITNESS, while people in the church would have been CALLED by God directly. WE did not expect people to repent THROUGH the world tomorrow broadcast or the pt magazine.
These are important principles.
To whmo was jesus speaking, what was he saying and by what authority was he to speak about eternal life and death before his sacrifice. Your interpretation sounds like Prince Charles signing laws into effect, which would be ridiculous as it is the Queens prerogative, but it could also be my bible illiteracy on this topic that hampers this exchange of ideas.
nck
Nck
Christ pointed out that Abraham, Isaac, Jacob as well as Moses, Elijah, David etc will be in the first resurrection. These all died before his sacrifice and death. God is not pinned down and controlled by the lawyers with their 'but who is my brother' manipulation. Christ told his generation to repent for the kingdom is at hand. He criticized the pharisees for not entering the kingdom like the repented harlots and publicans. This was before the holy spirit was offered to his generation. So even with a water baptism, people can repent and build the virtues which will qualify them for eternal life when they are eventually offered the holy spirit.
This is self evident in everyday church experience. People who didn't do their homework and left high school at the earliest age, are the least successful Christians, since patterns repeat. Those who worked long and hard are those who are the most successful in their Christian walk. This is a generality of course.
So the church witness is not some fluffy academic exercise. It is giving people the opportunity to start qualifying for eternal life here and now.
8:16
I do agree with what you say at 8:16. In the sense that it sounds rational.
I'm just being precise and exact on who is speaking and what authority at the time of speaking this person(a) has been attributed with on what topic.
Again you say "Christ". But he did not carry that title at the time of "pointing out."
I do agree however, since someone who "points things out" is a TEACHER. But a teacher of law is not qualified to hand out the goodies that are the prerogative of the King.
So yes yahweh might have bestowed "first resurection' on said persons, but Jesus is just pointing that out. He is NOT judging, he is teaching.
I love how you injunct that HWA was not a succesful Christian, as if education has anything to do with being a Christian. I mean the interrogators at the inquisition were Doctors of Law.
I do completely agree with your last two sentences. Witnessing is giving people opportunities indeed. And certainly more than just an obligatory waste of money and time. However wise and great the contents of that witnessing it is not up to man to give what they do not posess or take what is not theirs to take. For instance eternal life.
I think I am now leaving the realm of an idle chat. Therefore I should now shut up or study the subject better in order not to jeopardize my own personal salvation.
nck
Nck
I did use the qualification of working 'long and hard' because there are many people who have excellent academic qualification, but they did not struggle and acquire character in the process. Which is why your example, and others such as Nazis with PhDs who were in charge of concentration camps. Our deceased Rod Meridith is another example of a morally challenged PhD.
10:49
I understand. Academics are only part of character building. I'm aware of officer training standards.
I'm afraid I have to doubt the phd standard of ac as much as I am willing to defend that institution for other purpose.
I was discussing the gift of grace in addition (or as crown) to the character building.
An Iranian mullah just explained it to me 15 minutes ago. He said: "We should not think that climbing a mountain takes us closer to God. If God wants it so, he will find us."
I liked that concept. I am a climber.
Nck
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