The concepts of Critical Thinking were intentionally not developed within the Church. Any questions you had? Ask the minister. Any doubts you have? Don't discuss it with anyone else - lest you sow division and discord within the Church. Ask a question to the minister like you are supposed to do when you disagree? Find yourself on the bad list - at the least an "unconverted" , to a "bad attitude", to a "rebellious spirit" - and on the shortlist to discipline, up to and including disfellowshipment. More often than not, thoughts, opinions, doubts, and questions by many were pushed way back to File 14 (Not 13 - that's garbage, but 14, the Storage Area!). If you dared share them with anyone in the Church, you ran the risk of a ratter outing you to The Minister - which is worse than if you told him yourself - nearly guaranteeing you being labeled as one "Sowing Division" and risking immediate disfellowshipment for speaking out against Church Doctrine.
This is why many believers on this blog react so strongly to posts on this blog that foster critical thinking. In the Church, we were not encouraged to use our heads and think. We were not ourselves allowed to "prove all things". We weren't confronted with hard questions - those were for the ministers to handle. We did not converse deeply and with prolonged debate (or were not supposed to anyhow) with those who thought differently than we did - whether it was a Mainstream Christian, a Street Hoodlum, a Buddhist, a New Ager, or an atheist.
Years ago, while in the Worldwide Experience, I would have reacted in the way most probably would have expected. I would have immediately blasted any contrary opinion as - well, lost. You know, shake the dirt off your feet and don't even give a contrary person (derisively labeled a "dissident") the time of day. The biggest and most important function in the Church to keep it together was the appearance and misnomer of what we called "unity", in a religion where reality shows us that we were never truly unified. We were master illusionists.
These days, in this generation of knowledge, information, history, and science, it's not only good to understand the opinions of other people - it's imperative. The approach we had of "don't look at this, throw it in the trash" these days simply fosters an attitude of ignorance. To understand how another person thinks, we have to understand what they think! And this is exactly what many who are Christians are afraid of. That deep down, they may fall victim to convincing argument and fall into what they perceive as "strong delusion".
Truth is, every part of every religion - whether it's Hinduism, Buddhism, Judaism, Muslim, or Evangelical Christianity - and yes, even Armstrongism - has a certain level of truth within. This is why all religions have massive numbers - because something clicks with somebody as true, therefore, it all must be true. This isn't so - as nobody has the "lock" on all truth as long as humanity is involved. This is why, in every sect of every religion, you will find literally hundreds and thousands of diverse opinions about how this is so and how that is so. You can be as sincere as you wish - but you can also be "sincerely wrong" - and no one has gotten it completely right. Not Herbert Armstrong, not Charles Stanley, not anyone of mortal flesh. This is why a personal relationship with a personal God is the basis of true and authentic Christianity.
It shouldn't be scary to acknowledge and to hear other opinions. Rather, we have been given a Counselor, and a Teacher - the Holy Spirit - to help us personally where we are. In prayer, as we connect with the Heavenly Dimension, we can understand - personally. And with Christ in us, and working through us, we can stand and grow in both character and in faith, in the assurance of things unseen, growing daily in the assurances of what we know to be true by Him who works in us, and through us. Without the personal Christ within us, we are only as blades of grass blown by the wind. The danger comes when, in our zeal, we, as Christians, try to convince others of what we know personally to those who try to convince us of what they know academically. We will lose every time with this approach. They will blast us and rip us to shreds using academia against personal experience. This is not the way to go.
The only thing that Christians have for proof are their fruits. The problem is that with many people who claim to be Christians, the fruits just are not there. Instead, there are the "Judgers" who condemn them. There are the "Angries" who blast them with vitriol. There are the "Pious" - the "I'm better than you's because I know the truth". There are the "Righteous Ones" who look down on anyone who believes differently than they do. And the only thing Christians have going for them - EVIDENCE of Christ - is dust in the wind, and then what is there? Absolutely nothing.
The evidence of Christ - the only thing that shows who we are - and what we are - are the fruits of the Spirit. Gentleness. Love. Mercy. Self Control. Patience. Kindness. Meekness. Joy. This evidence is the only thing that is needed, and the only answer. It is the mind and the emotion of God in action. And as it is said in the Love Chapter - and in a song we all knew or know - we can talk in megaphones, as sounding brass and banging cymbals - but if we do not show genuine love in our actions, conversations and discussions with people of all belief spectrums - than our beliefs and our faith is as useless as bronze age encyclopedias. Because all of the knowledge in the world, and all of the knowledge of our universe, and science, and realms, and realities, and angels, and demons, and animals - and even, as scripture says, height and depth and all things physical - cannot compare to the power of one act of love and kindness. This - love and kindness - is more powerful than all of the knowledge in all of the internet.
At the end of the day, The only thing that matters is exactly what scripture says - faith expressing itself in love. (Galatians 5:6) It's the most powerful force and witness in the Universe. Everything else withers, but love stands strong. This is why, and how, we can make it and show Christ in this age of incredible knowledge and understanding. Because there is an abundance of truth in today's knowledge. Yet, there is unbelievable power in love. And that is the narrow road to the narrow gate that is often missed, and few are those who find it.
submitted by SHT
submitted by SHT
18 comments:
In my experience as member/pastor the administration types and those in the subject to ego expression positions of authority did not understand the difference between Doing and Being.
Perhaps the "Oh how love I thy law, IT is ever with me, it is my meditation all the days of my life" got way too much in the way of the final conclusions voiced in I Cor 13.
I have to say that as a pastor, the topics of controversy were always over how to DO or not Do something. How to keep the Sabbath. (John Ritenbaugh gave his infamous 20 plus weeks sermons in Greenville, and everywhere on HOW to keep the Sabbath). I can't imagine such detail and majoring in the minors but it was so. I would not have stayed in my seat for such nonsense member or pastor.
My first headbutting with a member when in my 20's was over HOW to keep the Passover and if not that, then it got to be WHEN. All useless waste of time and emotion in hindsight. The man was endeavoring to split the church over it all and I Cor 13 was not something he wanted to hear. He wanted to DO it right, his way, and it ended up with me having to call the police to church to calm him down.
Lots of examples but I'll spare us. WCG was all doing and the concerns over doing it right. Right time, right way, right attitude, right meaning, right everything which simply is no way to be "helpers of anyone's joy" I always thought one reason so many of the founding minister types were that way were due to many of them coming right out of World War2 and as a response to whatever that experience did to them personally. Anyone would trade WW2 for the WWTomorrow. But there were God's laws to obey, prophecy to understand, and doing it all correctly. Somewhere in all that, BEING was lost or never even considered.
BEING, to me at least, is that simple recognition that the greatest of all that to "get" is to love, respect, encourage, promote and hand hold if necessary along the way in life. To be more present in one's actual life in their faith and not lost in the unchangeable past or unknowable future. WCG did both in excess ever mindful of DOING it all right, which they argued about endlessly throughout the church and from the pulpit, as well as behind the scenes. Refresher Programs for the ministry were an experience to behold. Hardly refreshing and simply a reminder to do it right according to the top dogs.
Con't
I Corinthians 13 was not high on the sermon list. Too "Protestant" and not enough DO. It is a treatise on BEING. How should one BE as a Christian? I had to memorize the chapter in the Second Grade in my Dutch Reformed past and, in my world or pastoring, was what came first to mind in being a minister helping real people in their real lives no matter what else they felt they had to DO. Most failed to BE it because the DO part was too far ingrained by WCG in the members. BEING was simply too False Churchy and emotionally based.
There were any number who thought they had the right tongue of both men and angels but truly just clanging cymbal types in hindsight.
Some had the rather fake and overblown "gift of prophecy" and the ability, in their minds to fathom all mysteries and knowledge, which they didn't, but were also not known for their gift of love
Never met one who gave all to the poor or their bodies to be burned but maybe doing 3T right took care of that and no one wanted to burn their bodies at this time in history.
The rest speaks for itself:
4 Love is PATIENT, love is KIND. It does not envy, it DOES NOT BOAST (DAVE), it is NOT PROUD.
5 It does not DISHONOR OTHERS, it is not SELF-SEEKING, it is not EASILY ANGERED, it KEEPS NO RECORDS OF WRONGS.
6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth.
7 It always PROTECTS, always TRUSTS, always HOPES, always PERCERVERES.
8 Love NEVER fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away.
9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part,
10 but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears.
11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me. (I personally and in hindsight believe WCG never got this far and the splinters certainly haven't.)
12 For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.
13 And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love."
If Paul wrote this (Not my favorite guy as most will realize) and it was not inserted or redacted into the text, then he changed remarkably by the end of his life. He was not these positive traits throughout most of his writings especially in Galatians which is pure Paul. But perhaps his recognition that only his time was short and not all time was changed him. Perhaps he came to admit he was mistaken on many things, the shortness of time, the advice to not marry, his rancor towards those that did not see as he saw etc and grew up.
Something one can only dream about for the characters we see today masquerading as "reputed pillars" as Paul like to call his colleagues in Jerusalem.
And too...
I appreciate SHT's contributions based on his own experience in WCG. It's been a trip for all of us, member and minister. Some do the experience better than others and we all have had our experience of being stuck in place until something moves us on and out of that stuckness.
I could not be here n life, where I feel content and appreciative for lessons learned and where I personally find myself, without the WCG experience. I am not so naïve as to think I would have personally had a much different experience had I been a pastor in another denomination. That's just me. Ever inquisitive and never content with a static and out of date belief system. Growing in Grace and Knowledge was not something WCG/HWA and those still stuck in it all were either good at or knew how to do without getting dismembered or bring chaos to the organization. Grace and Knowledge came from on high and was not for the member to determine for themselves. Group think was controlled from on high as well but we see that in the NT too.
At any rate, I appreciate the positive views and lessons learned SHT shares and just wished to acknowledge that
Doing vs. Being
AND MAY I ADD...
It is not as important WHAT you are doing, but WHY are you doing it!
SHT, that is one of the strongest most forthright conclusions that you have written. I can honestly admit to not conceptualizing even in the slightest sense, what were/are the actual requirements for entering in the narrow gate for far too many years.
That you have written to this problem before, which I believe was/is probably the greatest problem in the COG construct is quite insightful. The COG defined that the way to enter the narrow gate was through obedience. Obedience to a man, obedience to men, obedience to a theology, obedience to a conceived structure on a day or days, obedience to tradition, obedience to punctuality, obedience to dress or other standards etc.
When Joe Tkach Sr. came to head the WCG he asked a question in one of his sermons. From my perspective at the time, being in almost if not perfect obedience to all things WCG, what question could be asked that hasn't already been asked or covered that would in any way change what I or we were doing. Joe Tkach asked the question; how many of you have just raced past someone broke down on the side of the road so you can make it to Sabbath services 30 minutes before it starts? That was a very convicting question for me to hear since I had done that numerous times because of course I was a Spokesmans Club member and the requirement was all members had to have themselves and their families present in services 30 minutes before start time.
Critical thinking 101 comes into the mind fast and furious when having to answer such a question considering circumstances. Because at the heart of that question, and the many other questions that have been asked in the COG realm is; which obedience do you follow? A very important consideration considering the correct answer leads to life and the wrong answer leads to destruction.
SHT, you have subtlety become the 21st century HWA. Herbert Armstrong had the two trees and you have the two obedience's. Both messages are very similar in that life or death are the outcome depending on what choice one makes. HWA had the right theme to pound into the church on a regular basis, unfortunately the outcome of life could only be achieved by filtering ones self through a strict governmental theological process.
The straight and narrow gate is achieved by obedience and that by the two great loves as you have written.
There will always be a certain percentage of the general population who need extreme structure, a sense of belonging, and for others to do their thinking for them. I believe that if the members of the ACOGs had not encountered Armstrongism at a critical point in their lives, they would most likely have found and embraced something very similar. The good news, is that a certain percentage will outgrow their need for that structure, and will eventually be onward and upward to the next level. Hopefully, any damage incurred along the way will not be too extreme, and will simply become part of the learning process. This is partially possible because families are no longer being broken up due to extreme interpretation of D & R, for the most part medical attention is permitted, and by this point in the continuing saga of failed prophecies, members know to make better long-term life decisions rather than blowing off their education and careers. At least, that’s how it seems from many of the reports we hear. Probably not all of this is true in the extreme groups such as RCG and PCG, but those two groups appear to be dying off at a faster rate than the others.
BB
"Christianity in the Worldwide Church of God was relatively simple and actually contained in three simple words: Obey Your Minister. Regardless of how many may challenge this supposition, there's really no other way around it."
I had a totally different experience in WCG. It seems that it really depended on where you were and who your minister was! I never felt that I had to obey my minister and he certainly didn't teach that, but I have heard the horror stories....actually, many horror stories!!
3.38 PM
How many different ministers did you have?
"how many of you have just raced past someone broke down on the side of the road so you can make it to Sabbath services 30 minutes before it starts?"
So, I had to stop and risk my family's life (who knows if the dude is a serial killer) just because someone broke down along side of the interstate? That's a far cry from what Jesus was teaching in the parable of the Good Samaritan. In that parable the man was beaten and left half dead, his tire wasn't flat in the middle of the day.
Of course, especially if it's at two in the morning, one should call the police if they have a cell phone and report the broken down vehicle, or go to the nearest service station.
If it's an accident that you just witnessed it is a Christians duty to stop and see if they can help. But to stop just because someone has broken down is asking for trouble.
I never was able to fully buy into the belief in the WCG that any proclaimed Christians outside the organization were fake Christians. It shows how little value the WCG and the current COGs place on faith and love. The WCG ridiculed the "love,love,love" preached in churches outside the WCG. The WCG belittled faith in other Christians as having no value as they would dismiss it as "worked up" or "though sincere, sincerely wrong".
Many sermons taught how easy it will be for the Jews in the Millenium as they have everything right "except Christ" and that they will accept Him in the Millenium. The non-WCG Christians on the other hand, were said to be stubborn and rebellious for not observing the Sabbath and Holy Days. But, they'll learn and will recall how there was that family down the block that went to church on Saturday. -- That I suppose is letting your light shine.
It's just such a weird religion: Christians in the Millenium will learn how important the Holy Days are as it shows God's plan though this plan will be primarily complete once in the Millenium. These are the kind of things that matter to the COGs. To them, the narrow gate is for law keepers (yes, kinda overstated), not a lot of focus on those that let Christ live in them to produce fruits of the Spirit and all that other blah blah blah.
According to the COGs, it seems that the missing ingredients in the lives of Christians is keeping sabbaths and understanding end-time events. The COGs aren't and won't be keeping the law as commanded, but Christ's question for our consideration is not "will they be keeping the law"; it is "will I find faith?"
The COGs are so obviously wrong, but to mention it any more simply feels like beating a dead horse.
True 7:04
Safety first!
I guess Joey never stopped for anyone and supposed everyone was like him.
Guilty by association.
HWA took many people for a ride.( pun intended but referring to the investor Japanese helping millions of people)
Joey was just a common thief.
Nck
Thank you everyone for your insights.
Dennis said:
"But perhaps his recognition that only his time was short and not all time was changed him."
Paul had, It seems, A Personal Revelation from a Personal Relationship with a Personal God.
Time WAS Short. His time.
Time IS Short... for each of us.
Will Jesus return in our lifetimes? For Christians, YES - at the very end. We in the COG's never taught or believed that the death of Jesus had any impact on anything. Yet scripture says, in John 11:17-26: (TLV):
"17 So when Yeshua arrived, He discovered that Lazarus had been in the tomb already for four days. 18 Bethany was less than two miles[b] from Jerusalem, 19 and many of the Judeans had come to Martha and Miriam to console them about their brother.
20 When Martha heard that Yeshua was coming, she went out to meet Him; but Miriam sat in the house. 21 Martha said to Yeshua, “Master, if You had been here, my brother wouldn’t have died! 22 But I know, even now, that whatever You may ask of God, He will give You.”
23 Yeshua said to her, “Your brother will rise again.”
24 Martha said to Him, “I know, he will rise again in the resurrection on the last day.”
25 Yeshua said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life! Whoever believes in Me, even if he dies, shall live. 26 And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?”"
A question for all who adhere to COG theology to seriously ask themselves.
Good passage and question, SHT.
Abraham believed and his faith was counted as righteousness. Upon Abraham believing that God would do what He said, God entered a covenant with Abraham without any other stipulations on Abraham. Believing was all that was required of Abraham.
What about simply believing is uncomfortable for the COGs? Belief in a Creator and Savior necessarily changes you.
2:06 Oh how soon they forget.
Gen 26:5 - Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.
2:06 Because the english word belief and how it's used is a far cry from the Greek word that's translated belief. Especially in the book of Hebrews where the Greek word unbelief literally means a stubborn refusal to obey. Obedience is required by God, disobedience is the reason that Jesus had to die in the first place. Salvation has nothing to do with obedience but it has a lot to do with disobedience.
Not forgotten, but it was Abraham's belief that precipitated the covenant the Lord made with him as Gen. 15 points out. He believed God and it was counted as righteousness to him. Abram prepared the animals to finalize the covenant, but God put a sleep about him and it was only the Lord (or His representative) that passed between the sacrificed animal parts, signifying this is a promise that does not now depend on Abram. Abram's faith in God was all that was necessary. And to be clear, it isn't real if it doesn't change you.
I grant you, I don't know exactly which statutes and laws Abraham followed, but it was Abraham's belief that created His desire to obey God.
He had moved away from idols when the Lord called him out of Ur of the Chaldees. He did everything to belong to God. He left family and friends, he left his idols and likely moon god beliefs. He submitted to the new circumcision law at the time of the covenant, and later he reckoned to even break natural law by killing his son if God so chose.
Belief/faith in God was what precipitated the covenant. I'm sure you rightly mention this verse to show that Abraham was a law keeper and that the law had been given from creation. It is an argument and one of the very few, but it does not mention the laws and statutes, so speculation would be required, but whichever statues and law referred to it seems tertiary to God's voice, charge, and commands. Abram believed and desired to please God - that seems the more vigorous portion of his service to God.
Funny how it says that Abraham obeyed "my" voice, "my" charge, "my" commandments, "my" statutes, and "my" laws and when dealing with Israel, "because of transgressions", said, Exo 19:5 - Now therefore, if ye will obey "my" voice indeed, and keep "my" covenant, and, Exo 16:28 - And the LORD said unto Moses, How long refuse ye to keep "my" commandments and "my" laws? That everyone thinks it's merely speculation that those laws are the very least the same ones that made up the Ten Commandments. Belief is just as important as obedience, why it's almost always portrayed as one or the other is beyond me.
You’re right that belief and obedience go together. Belief does change us and if the Holy Spirit is leading us to know truth then there will be some things we do out of understanding rather than thinking “I must obey”. Yet there are plenty of times I do things to obey.
It seems too often people think that obedience means keeping the sabbath; that while we still sin and don’t act in the ways God commissioned us somehow loosely observing the sabbath makes us obedient. Somehow we were led to believe that just believing the sabbath should be kept made us obedient. I believe Christ’s sacrifice covers all our sins whether one incorrectly believes the sabbath is not required or places too much emphasis and in fact has raised the sabbath to the idol level as most cogs have done. I say this because the cogs believe that the sabbath makes them right with God and the lack of sabbath keeping makes other Christians fake. That is idolizing the sabbath. But, that forgiveness requires recognizing you are outside of obedience and the COGs may well have a harder time about that.
But getting back to Abraham’s obedience, he seems to be unaware of some things in the law or 10 commandments: adultery, marrying close relations as he and Isaac and jacob did, murder seemed a little differently viewed to - as wrong but not against a statute/law, no mention of sabbath keeping, yet much detail given in the new law of circumcision which Abraham obeyed as a sign he was God’s.
Abraham obeyed, but it doesn’t look to be the same laws and statutes given at Sinai.
Post a Comment