They never seem to ask the question as to who will populate all of these planets? Even if every person who has ever lived were suddenly alive, there would still be room on this planet for them all.
Therefore, Paul says the trials and sufferings in this life are truly not worthy to be compared with the glorious future in God’s Kingdom and enjoying eternity with this great inheritance as His beloved children! Paul describes it best, “But as Scripture says: ‘No eye has seen, no ear has heard, and no mind has imagined, the things that God has prepared for those who love him’” (1 Corinthians 2:9, God’s Word Translation).
He now goes to the outer reaches of spiritual knowledge, saying: “For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing [the resurrection] of the sons of God. For the creation [or Universe] was subjected to futility [decay], not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope; because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption [or uselessness] into the glorious liberty of the children of God [who will help renew it]” (Romans 8:19-21).
As far as we know about cosmology, our solar system and the 5,830 exoplanets so far found are in need of renovation, for none is ready to be inhabited. It appears that Lucifer’s rebellion caused great havoc when he attempted to dethrone God in heaven and was cast back to the earth. As Jesus said, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven” (Luke 10:18, see also Isaiah 14:12-15).
This destruction will be repaired once God’s Kingdom arrives, which begins first by renewing the earth (Acts 3:21), and then the rest of the Universe. Romans 8:22-23 adds: “We know that everything in the universe is still in great pain now. Everything cries together in pain, like a woman who is ready to have a baby. It is the same for us who are believers. We have received God’s Spirit as the first of his gifts to us, but we also cry inside ourselves. We are waiting for the time when God will finish his great work. Then we will belong to Him completely as his children. Our bodies will be free from the power of sin” (EASY version).
61 comments:
The obvious reason to make physical planets more physically beautiful and habitable is if we are actually proto-Mormons, expecting to create more potential members of an ever-growing God Family. Otherwise, as God-Beings existing both within and without space-time, fixing physical planets is the height of pointlessness and wasted effort.
“UCG Preparing To Rehabilitate The Solar System and 5,330 Exoplanets”
Forget about the Solar System and 5,330 Exoplanets for now.
The disUnited Church of Godlessness, an International Abomination is full of unrepentant, unconverted unbelievers who are behaving very badly while playing church. They need to be rehabilitated first.
Remember, first rehabilitate all the wicked and malicious people in the UCG. Then, later, maybe, rehabilitate the Solar System and 5,330 Exoplanets.
Frankly, it seems highly unlikely that they will ever get past trying in vain to rehabilitate all the fake “christians” in the UCG.
Maybe a different Splinter Group can rehabilitate the Solar System and 5,330 Exoplanets.
5,830 exoplanets do not begin to describe the scope of the problem. These are just the planets that astrophysicists have some data about. They now think that there are more exo-planets than there are stars.
The arithmetic doesn't work. The Universe is way too large for the Unfinished Furniture Hypothesis. A few solar systems in this galaxy would give roomy accommodation to all the human beings who have ever lived. Humanity does not have enough population to settle anything more than a little corner of this galaxy and maintain a society. And there are galaxies like grains of sand.
See https://armstrongismlibrary.blogspot.com/2025/07/riders-on-earth-why-hwas-unfinished.html
Scout
Theories have never been one of the strengths of HWA and his successors. I wonder if these guys even know about the 30+ constants required to support life as we know it here on planet Earth.
It boggles my mind that all these COG splinters believe their destiny is to rule the universe when they cannot get together with each other right now.
Anonymous on Monday, September 1, 2025 at 3:15:51 PM PDT said, “It boggles my mind that all these COG splinters believe their destiny is to rule the universe when they cannot get together with each other right now.”
That is precisely WHY the so-called COG splinter people need to spread out throughout the entire universe with each person on his or her own planet. They simply cannot get together and get along with each other.
I guess it’s somewhat more exciting than sitting on a cloud and playing a harp.
This is a good example of why I believe devout COGers cannot rightly be called "Christian." It's not just a doctrinal oopsie here and there, but an entirely non-Christian hope.
They make fun of the "beatific vision" as the reward of the saved, but then their goal is to rule this planet for a thousand years with true education, good nutrition, a fixed economy, proper health laws, and the most important thing ever: sabbathkeeping.
After their thousand-year reign on planet earth, they want to expand and explore strange new worlds, to create new life and new civilizations, to boldly go where no one has gone before.
Their hope is not to find peace and joy and fulfillment in Jesus Christ; it is to live out an empty sci-fi dream.
Thank you Scout.
The arithmetic doesn’t work…..correct.
I understand that the universe is expanding, getting larger……
We are limited finite creatures who will one day perish. That we could be God as God is God as Armstrongism espouses is simply folly. Impossible. Except that thee become as little children you will not enter the Kingdom of God.
That is a hint as to what lies ahead. We will be in astonishment at the world we are inheriting and in wonderment. Gobsmacked. That we will be goose stepping around recreating the universe and lording it over others is …..fill it in………..
We must all acknowledge our helplessness in the face of that great enemy death. We have small glimpses into what is before us, but unless we become as little children you…………….
Awesome contribution, COG Catholic! I really appreciate your very succinct perspective. Says it all in a few very meaningful words.
Hopefully the people who desperately need to will see this and get the message!
BB
I go to UCG although probably not for too much longer due to other issues. Just wanted to say how wrong you are with your synopsis. Perhaps some may believe that (I honestly have no idea), but I think many hold a different view on the resurrection, the Millennium, and what comes after. Not anything like you described or for those reasons.
I am pretty sure there will be an ambassador auditorium built on each planet.
Tank
What will these Sabbath-keepers do about the fact that most of these exoplanets don't have 24-hour days? Even as nearby as Venus, the planet's slow rotation means that the Venusian day is longer than the Venusian year, and that day is 117 Earth-days from sunset to sunrise. These poor new Armstrongist God-beings assigned to the exoplanets are going to be contending with calendar controversies that make Earth's seem tame by comparison!
UCG are doing no such thing. Blatant lie NO2HWA. Are you certain COG believe what you accuse them of ?
For scripture describes the sky being rolled up as a scroll in Isaiah 34:4, Revelation 6:14 and mentions similar cosmic imagery in other passages such as 2Peter3:10 and Matthew 24:29.
This imagery signifies a conplete cosmic upheaval and dissolution, with the sky, stars, and heavenly bodies fading and dissolving like withered leaves or shriveled figs.
Revelation 6:14 The sky was split in the middle and both sides rolled up like a scroll. The ESV has "The sky vanished".
Human minds simply cannot fathom what God has in store for the future. We cannot even grasp what lies ahead of the sky being rolled up like a scroll. But it will be good because God is good and we be amazed.
Scout:
Genuine inquiry here: What am I missing in your criticism? My understanding in Armstrongism always was that on our planets we would create people who would become God-beings, who would get planets and create people who would become God-beings, yada yada yada. The problem is not too many stars, but too few. Eventually the process would have to stop. Kind of a weird pyramid scheme.
The quote is directly out of their own publication. I did not even add any snarky commentary.
To be fair to critics, it would help with you more diligent in furnishing links. Giving the enemy a few clicks for this purpose would not be treason.
11:46 I am a UCG member, and it is in black and white print on our website.
Many UCG members don't bother with the UCG website since it's update, unless they have to. Many use UCG social media and utube output to interact with various sermons and articles including Feast of Tabernacles information. Websites have become front of house and not the heart of the church in recent years.
"He that overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be my son", Revelation 21:7.
" The spirit itself bears witnesses with our spirit that we are the children of God. And if children, then heirs, heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ ", Romans 8:16-17.
" Beloved, now are we the sons of God and it does not yet appear what we shall be. But we know that when He shall appear we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is. And every one who has THIS HOPE . . . .", 1 John 3:2-3.
Many have argued before that God is not bound by space and time. Yet we don't want to extend that same courtesy to His children. For them we must put constraints and set limits. Some say, 'the universe is TOO BIG to settle and maintain a society'???
Is the universe too big for the angels? Is it too big for the one who knows the stars by name? Is it somehow too big for Jesus Christ because He now has a body? Is it too big for beings who will share and inherit His glorified existence, who can travel at the speed of thought and will have all the time in eternity to create? Or will the universe cease to be because it no longer serves any purpose?
Speculation on the eternity of glory to follow is plentiful here as shown by the comments. But because Scripture is silent on many things, that's all we have. One person's speculation, including Armstrong's, is as good as the next. One thing is for sure. As we now enjoy peace, joy, and fulfillment in Jesus Christ, those pleasures will carry forward into eternity. There is absolutely no reason to put limitations on them!
These types of sci-fi beliefs come from Gnosticism, but also Mormonism. Not surprisingly…
Lee Walker wrote, “My understanding in Armstrongism always was that on our planets we would create people who would become God-beings”
I only heard that idea expressed once in my lengthy time in the WCG. Ron Dart stated that resurrected Christians would go out in pairs, like Father and Son, have their populated planets and have the opportunity to die for the sins of the inhabitants as Jesus died for ours. That is not exactly the idea that you reference but it fits. In other words, an earthly plan of salvation redux for every two-person team.
I think this is simply heresy, if asserted as doctrine. In defense of Dart, he did not present this as doctrine but as a conjecture, at least when I heard it. I encountered his statement on a tape that was in the AC library in Big Sandy back in the Seventies. I never heard anything similar from the pulpit.
The idea has some serious flaws. Jesus already died for all sins. Only God is a Creator. And it raises unresolved questions. There seems to be a fixed number of angels so why not a fixed number of human beings? Is it possible that the Cosmos is a work of art rather than a habitation? Is there an objective reality or is everything subjective? No doubt there is some reason why the Cosmos is as large as it is. We don’t know how large it really is. The true purpose of the Cosmos must go well beyond our prosaic ideas. That is my criticism. HWA's Unfinished Furniture idea is way too small, infinitesimal, yet is held up as some kind of final Grand Destiny.
Imagine you are a resurrected being and you are about to start another day terra-forming planets one billion years from now. By this time, you have already terra-formed 750 million planets. Yet, this is only a tiny bit of the Cosmos. And nobody lives on the planets your terra-formed. What’s wrong with this picture?
Scout
1 Corinthians 2:9 couldn’t be clearer—what God has prepared for us in His Kingdom, the New Heavens, Earth and Jerusalem is beyond anything anyone has seen, heard or can even imagine! But apparently, that memo got lost on the way to the armchair Armstrongist theologians playing space emperors. All this sci-fi, Mormonesque chatter about eternal sex, planet-hopping and galactic real estate portfolios is pure speculative fiction—Star Wars fanfic dressed up in Bible verses. Still, you have to be impressed with those who claim to have cracked the divine destiny code and penciled themselves in as cosmic landlords before the ink on Revelation has even dried.
That's the reply of a COG member whose understanding of mainstream Christian beliefs comes from movies and cartoons. Or worse, if they just listen to Bill Watson.
You didn’t answer the question. The core of your opposition to the belief is the finite and insufficient number of humans.
“There seems to be a fixed number of angels so why not a fixed number of humans?”
That’s not an argument.
Dart’s Duo Theory, if he indeed said that, is a good illustration of the Mormon influence in this aspect of Armstrong theology. But yes, it is nonsensical. And maybe a bit arrogant. No need for an additional sacrifice. However, it does mean you had the answer to the question at hand.
“Only God is a Creator.” —
1. Humans create.
2. “GOD-beings.”
I don’t know how much of your position is based on you wanting a less concrete view of the afterlife to be true versus how much is based on you simply wanting Armstrong to be wrong. I hate the man more than you ever will, I guarantee it. But I don’t express disagreement with his expressed view of the Bible simply to be disagreeing with him. It’s actually counterproductive to the cause. Attacking him personally by taking on his “Elijah” claim, attacking sabbatarian, church history and the Succession claim… These go to breaking the cult control. There’s no need to go after most other beliefs. It causes Armstrongists to get defensive. They have a right to their beliefs, even as you have a right to yours. Unless you are as unaccepting of contrary views as they are, even if you do believe this Bible stuff, you can’t deny them salvation. Dey does bulleeves in Jeezus, remember.
(Yes, I have gone after their eschewance of Civic Duty, in part because most of them will probably vote my way, but also because that practice more than most psychologically holds them to the cult. But if a given Armstrongist honestly believes the traditional approach, and does so while cursing Herbie the Pervy, I’ll still be happy.)
I have heard Ron Dart say something similar in a sermon, I forget the sermon title but it wasn't the 70s, but what i heard he did not mean it as doctrine but as one of his 'Dartisims' were he was thinking out loud, he would say things to spark thinking, imagination and thinking outside the box.
But I also had personal dealings with Dart and he remarked to me on a different subject 'Not everything i've said is correct looking back'.
Correct 7:12 They act as if they were the Apostle John and taken the eschatological pen from him to canonize more.
They haven't been persecuted like the people in the bible (ie. prison like Paul or John on patmos, or John the baptist), they don't receive visions or dreams, and aren't correspondent with an angel. (as of yet if ever).
1 Corinthians 2 goes on to say….
“these things God has revealed to us through the Spirit. For the Spirit searches everything, even the depths of God.”
1 Corinthians 2:10 ESV
This is all about what God has done through Jesus… plucking scriptures out of context is always trouble.
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Terms and Conditions may apply salvation is not guaranteed but subject to character approval.
Lee Walker wrote, "You didn’t answer the question. The core of your opposition to the belief is the finite and insufficient number of humans."
What is the question you want me to answer?
Scout
@Lee Walker- I’m new here and have been interested in what your beliefs are since from what I could tell it seems like you still believe and follow the Bible (albeit have different views or maybe I’m completely wrong). Are these the things you disagree with when it comes to Armstrongism? Or is there more and this is just a short list?“Elijah” claim, attacking sabbatarian, church history and the Succession claim… These go to breaking the cult control.”
I’m not a huge fan of Armstrong either but believe he had his role just like how God used others in the Bible that weren’t necessarily great people (King Darius, Nebuchadnezzar). Interesting that you’re not a fan of the Sabbath.. that one seems very difficult to get around when you take an honest view of the Bible. Anyways, I assume there are more things you disagree with and the above is just a sample. Could you please enlighten me?
In the event that we find a planet that not only has life but intelligent life, how would that be explained by the UCG? If that life looks nothing like us and more like the animals that crawl or trot around this planet wouldn't that tend to validate an explanation that contradicts the creation story.
You’re trying to reason things out physically and not spiritually. Everyone’s focus with the Kingdom and beyond is on the physical, but that isn’t where God wants it to be, is it? We are physical creatures with only a small access to the spiritual. We just have no idea what it’ll be like to be spiritual beings and that’s okay to me.
The COG Catholic, Monday, September 1, 2025 at 5:03:05 PM PDT, wrote:
[[[This is a good example of why I believe devout COGers cannot rightly be called "Christian." It's not just a doctrinal oopsie here and there, but an entirely non-Christian hope.
They make fun of the "beatific vision" as the reward of the saved, but then their goal is to rule this planet for a thousand years with true education, good nutrition, a fixed economy, proper health laws, and the most important thing ever: sabbathkeeping.
After their thousand-year reign on planet earth, they want to expand and explore strange new worlds, to create new life and new civilizations, to boldly go where no one has gone before.
Their hope is not to find peace and joy and fulfillment in Jesus Christ; it is to live out an empty sci-fi dream.]]]
******
Or, we may think their (COGers’) m/t sci-fi dream is more like the hope in a Mickey Mouse Millennium, after all, they cannot prove that their "another Jesus" lands on planet earth "very soon" after meeting His Bride in the clouds, and then reign on earth 1,000 years with perhaps their “organized confusion,” but...
Time will tell...
John
Perhaps we cross that bridge if it ever happens? Don’t think it’ll happen so really no need for any of us to waste our time on that for now.
“ What am I missing in your criticism?”
Question is how you can claim there were too few people, when reproduction on other planets answers that question. The closest you come is that “why not” statement. I guess the truth is that I gave you too much credit not to do a strawman argument. I thought maybe I had completely forgotten some thing in the 25 years I’ve been out. But no, it’s just you making up something. I won’t make that mistake again.
PP:
My personal beliefs aren’t really the issue.* Most of my strictly biblical discussions here are in my mind little more than what people think when they discuss Star Trek lore. They are discussions in a set context or universe.
My point about Sabbatarian church history (pardon the errant comma before) relates to ordinational succession and the Armstrongist “True Church” claim. And thus, to the “Elijah” claim. It all goes to what holds members from going to other churches, not part of the Armstrong faith tradition. It’s not about the Sabbath institution in the Bible itself. Challenging that, in my view, would be like saying the Prime Directive does not guide Starfleet (at least officially). Please understand this distinction.
Before, I posted this link for you to look at. I never heard back from you on that (if you did reply, my apologies for missing it). It does explain the whole fallacy behind the “True Church” claim that Armstrong and his ministers have used to hold members to that faith tradition.
https://catsgunsandnationalsecurity.blogspot.com/2025/03/reference-to-followers-of-armstrongism.html?m=1
In simplest terms, they cannot trace their organizational succession back to the original apostles by all-sabbatarian lineage. And by biblical precedent, that sets their claim aside. It is all explained there.
I don’t care what you believe religiously. I go into that feeling in that writeup. I simply do not want people falling for the fallacy, and feeling bound to that general theology.
* My personal view is that nothing can be trusted as “Divine Word” unless God Himself is it to you directly and personally. It’s like the “Best Evidence” rule in law: You don’t use a deposition when the witness himself is available. And God can be available anywhere at any time. If he chooses not to do so, that is his business. But I will not trust as divine command a self-professed messenger.
Lee Walker 7:15
If you read the article I wrote about this topic, you will see that I raise the possibility that human reproduction will continue. I also raise the possibility that the Cosmos is already occupied. Further, these possibilities are just that. They are speculative.
Even if one could come up with a really elegant solution, it is pretty meaningless. The Cosmos is moving towards entropy. Eventually, it will lapse into disorganization. Based on present trends, the Cosmos will end. So, I am not worried about it.
As cited earlier, the article I wrote is at:
See https://armstrongismlibrary.blogspot.com/2025/07/riders-on-earth-why-hwas-unfinished.html
Scout
And the article is 12:56?
Yes, I did read that. That contributed to my conclusion that your prime objection here is a disingenuous strawman. I was wrong to give you the benefit of the doubt before. I will make every effort not to make that mistake again.
The Armstrongists’ view on this has not been well represented so I am going to say something on their behalf. I have observed that the idea of the Cosmos is a showstopper for Armstrongists. They believe that human reproduction will stop. And there are not now enough people to make a dent in populating the Cosmos. The arithmetic is overwhelming.
Someone who is well-versed in Armstrongist theology (circa 1975) would not find my observation to be an issue. They believed that the present physical Cosmos would be destroyed (2 Peter 3:10). It will then be replaced by the New Earth and New Heavens which would not be physical but composed of spirit. Hence, there will never be entropy, and the spiritual Cosmos would be eternal and would never incline toward disorganization. The New Creation could then also be right-sized. It will be made an appropriate dwelling place for the children of God without any overage. It will be perfect in all of its dimensions. The present Cosmos is only a seed that foreshadows the efficient New Cosmos.
This is a coherent viewpoint with a Biblical hook in 2 Peter. It has as much traction as any of the many other speculations. My criticism would be that if it is true, then HWA's Unfinished Furniture theory surely does not hold. God will create the final polished and complete Cosmos of spirit composition. There is also a timing issue with respect to the Armstrongist interpretation of eschatology. They see the Day of the Lord as the cataclysmic transition period between the present age and the Millennium. 2 Peter refers to the dissolution of the present Cosmos as taking place on the Day of the Lord. So, the Armstrongist view on the timing of the dissolution does not comport with Revelation if we think of Peter’s statement as literal and not allegorical.
I, of course, have a theory.
Scout
Anon, Tuesday, September 2, 2025 at 4:47:13 PM PDT, wrote:
"In the event that we find a planet that not only has life but intelligent life, how would that be explained by the UCG? If that life looks nothing like us and more like the animals that crawl or trot around this planet wouldn't that tend to validate an explanation that contradicts the creation story."
******
I don't know how you would find such a planet, but what is the problem with this created earth, which has been made habitable for mankind?
Scout's speculation that there will be "...the possibility that human reproduction will continue...," is not speculation, but will be reality after that 1,000 years and that little/short time/season, after Satan and his angels are killed, after that second resurrection occurs (there will be no 3rd resurr).
For example, former king of Israel, David, will be resurrected in flesh/blood and bone via that 2nd resurrection. Yes, Job will come up in the flesh (Job 19:26) also. Oh, also so will Isaiah (Isaiah 26:19) live again in the flesh.
Human reproduction again, during David's time?
Why would God, or anybody, need to create more human beings, when the spirits of former human beings returned to God, that God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob, when He can just resurrect them with the capacity to continue to "do their thing!:" replenish this earth?
Ezekiel 37:24 "And David my servant [shall be] king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them.
:25 And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, [even] they, and their children, and their children s children for ever: and my servant David [shall be] their prince for ever."
Will God do what He said, and not, and will it be for ever?
Time will tell...Anon, Tuesday, September 2, 2025 at 4:47:13 PM PDT, wrote:
"In the event that we find a planet that not only has life but intelligent life, how would that be explained by the UCG? If that life looks nothing like us and more like the animals that crawl or trot around this planet wouldn't that tend to validate an explanation that contradicts the creation story."
******
I don't know how you would find such a planet, but what is the problem with this created earth, which has been made habitable for mankind?
Scout's speculation that there will be "...the possibility that human reproduction will continue...," is not speculation, but will be reality after that 1,000 years and that little/short time/season, after Satan and his angels are killed, after that second resurrection occurs (there will be no 3rd resurr).
For example, former king of Israel, David, will be resurrected in flesh/blood and bone via that 2nd resurrection. Yes, Job will come up in the flesh (Job 19:26) also. Oh, also so will Isaiah (Isaiah 26:19) live again in the flesh.
Human reproduction again, during David's time?
Why would God, or anybody, need to create more human beings, when the spirits of former human beings returned to God, that God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob, when He can just resurrect them with the capacity to continue to "do their thing!:" replenish this earth?
Ezekiel 37:24 "And David my servant [shall be] king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them.
:25 And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, [even] they, and their children, and their children s children for ever: and my servant David [shall be] their prince for ever."
Will God do what He said or not, and will it be for ever, especially with those children’s children?
Time will tell...
John
John
The latest science actually shows the universe is not moving towards entropy as you suggest. It is ever expanding at a rate exceeding the speed of light (which until previous the speed of light was thought to be the maximum speed anything could travel). We have no idea how the universe operates and that’s becoming clearer by the day. So no one has no idea of the universe is moving towards entropy. Actually evidence shows the opposite which most scientists don’t know how to interpret.
Lee,
What is the strawman? I think Scout is clear, and from what I've seen Scout doesn't need strawmen to make his arguments.
I apologize for the confusion caused by the duplication of words, and made one type, in my post above, and it should have resulted in the following verbiage.
Anon, Tuesday, September 2, 2025 at 4:47:13 PM PDT, wrote:
"In the event that we find a planet that not only has life but intelligent life, how would that be explained by the UCG? If that life looks nothing like us and more like the animals that crawl or trot around this planet wouldn't that tend to validate an explanation that contradicts the creation story."
******
I don't know how you would find such a planet, but what is the problem with this created earth, which has been made habitable for mankind?
Scout's speculation that there will be "...the possibility that human reproduction will continue...," is not speculation, but will be reality after that 1,000 years and that little/short time/season, after Satan and his angels are killed, after that second resurrection occurs (there will be no 3rd resurr).
For example, former king of Israel, David, will be resurrected in flesh/blood and bone via that 2nd resurrection. Yes, Job will come up in the flesh (Job 19:26) also. Oh, also so will Isaiah (Isaiah 26:19) live again in the flesh.
Human reproduction again, during David's time?
Why would God, or anybody, need to create more human beings, when the spirits of former human beings returned to God, that God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob, when He can just resurrect them with the capacity to continue to "do their thing!:" replenish this earth?
Ezekiel 37:24 "And David my servant [shall be] king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them.
:25 And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, [even] they, and their children, and their children s children for ever: and my servant David [shall be] their prince for ever."
Will God do what He said or not, and will it be for ever, especially with those children’s children?
Time will tell...
John
Not what I was taught.
And since you did not present this particular claim after being asked twice what your basis was for contending against what I was taught, I . If you can produce letters, articles, videos, or personal attestations from people willing to identify themselves verifying your claim, I will consider that.
Search: https://www.hwalibrary.com/
Previous message garbled.
To clarify from memory: Scout, you need to produce evidence of your claim of Armstrongist doctrine is an accurate rendering, even as it contradicts your claim of the Unfinished Furniture doctrine being the Armstrongist teaching.
I find it quite possible, given your past disingenuous strawman practices, that you are simply doing so again.
In any case, frankly, even taking it what you said is accurate, it does not preclude what you try to preclude. You overreached, and you got caught.
By the way, reality cannot be subjective. Reality by definition is objective.
Btw, Scout, I do congratulate you on using — finally — a Google account to verify at least that your posts are yours. Even if you changed your name to “Anonymous ‘ “! Lol Now you need to remember to use it consistently.
And then eventually, you can be a big boy, and actually put down your name.
Apologies for the errant first response.
I have had enough of this constant bicking about using ‘Anonymous’ to post with. Some here need to do so out of necessity and others don’t. Google allows this. I'm going to delete any comment that bitches about this from this point on. It's like a bunch 3 grade school girls whining to teacher
Lee Walker 11:35
I found two articles in which HWA stated that only the surface of the earth would be destroyed but our existing earth would be renewed. The third article by HWA said the earth would be destroyed. At that point, I quite looking. It has become a little silly.
You wrote, "By the way, reality cannot be subjective. Reality by definition is objective."
You just don't get it.
Bye.
Scout
Earl, Scout has falsely asserted that Armstrongism teaches that human reproduction will not occur basically after Revelation 20. This is simply not the case, and he even admits it at times. He then uses that false assertion as a supposed silver bullet against the “Unfinished Furniture” analogy. Calling that a “strawman” is being charitable. It is patent dishonesty.
You found two articles that don’t say what you are claiming, and you very loosely characterize a third article that again does not say what you are claiming. (The issue is reproductive life being put on OTHER planets, not Earth. That you would even offer those alleged examples — without links — is bizarre.) It makes sense that you would stop looking. You can’t really find what does not exist.
Armstrong was objectively demonstrable to be, figuratively, a piece of horse dung. There is no need to use false representations of his doctrine, and thus give his cult followers cause to reject legitimate criticism.
You are wrong. I do get it. You simply make things up.
Here here!đź‘Ź
Should the above post be allowed? Is only one side allowed to express their opinion on this?
Asking for a friend.
Still waiting for the statment to say which article on UCG website.
Lee,
I also recall that the teaching was that there would be no human reproduction after Rev. 20. There might have been some speculation on this by ministers and members alike. Even as a teen, I speculated on it, but thought it really doesn't matter. It doesn't take any high level of creativity to think that as a "spirit being" maybe we could create new life on another planet. It was all just speculation. Though quite creative, I grew weary of speculation on things I could not test as it is based on figuring out Something (God) Who holds all the cards and can play them however He will.
At AC, I never heard a teaching of continued human reproduction from any lectern (that i remember). I do remember many many sermons saying that there will not be male or female (certainly as spirit beings) but never did they then go and teach that there would be human reproduction of physical beings.
This was in the 80's which is after Scout left however.
From Lesson 22 of the AC Bullsh…, ur, Bible Correspondence Course:
(Referencing Romans 8) “What else are we going to do? God, first of all, is Creator. Those who become the Sons of God will also be creators! The Scriptures indicate we shall impart LIFE to billions of dead planets, as life has been imparted to this earth. We shall create, as the Father directs and instructs. Planets will be turned into beautiful, productive, life-sustaining worlds. We shall continue to create and rule throughout all eternity!”
Link here, because when I claim to find some thing in a collection of writings, I try to point people directly to where it is: https://www.hwalibrary.com/cgi-bin/get/hwa.cgi?action=getbstudy&InfoID=1316268955&page=5&return=Study32
So Armstrong taught that LIFE would be created by other God-Beings and put on these planets. So, to us your logic, “why not” lifeforms being potential God-Beings? “[A]s life has been imparted to this earth.”
I will yield to you a possibility that they would not be strictly speaking “human.” Perhaps “image of God” does indeed, have a more spiritual meaning. Thus it could be little green men on Mars. Vulcans on Vulcan (they would love 3 John 2). Kryptonians on a planet named after the element with atomic number 36. Maybe even Wookiees planet in the galaxy “far far away.” Or even Ovions on a planet called Carillon. (But don’t get me started on the whole Battlestar Galactica Kobol/Mormons in space thing.)
Indeed, it seems kind of a letdown to be made God of a planet, but have nobody to worship Me as such. Kind of like a general with no army to command, a minister with no congregation to fleece, or a blog commenter with no writings to cite to back up his claims that such a fleecer precluded life after the God kind.
Just a thought.
Here's your link:
https://www.ucg.org/members/united-news/united-news-september-october-2025/co-heirs-christ-coming-world-tomorrow
Nothing like a good search engine...
Anon, Thursday, September 4, 2025 at 8:28:37 AM PDT, wrote:
"Lee,
I also recall that the teaching was that there would be no human reproduction after Rev. 20. There might have been some speculation on this by ministers and members alike...
...At AC, I never heard a teaching of continued human reproduction from any lectern (that i remember). I do remember many many sermons saying that there will not be male or female (certainly as spirit beings) but never did they then go and teach that there would be human reproduction of physical beings..."
******
Anon, after that 1,000 years, and that little/short time/season, after Satan and his angels are killed, and then after that second resurrection occurs (there will be no 3rd resurr), human reproduction will be a reality.
You also wrote: “…Something (God) Who holds all the cards and can play them however He will…”
Perhaps God has inspired some information to help explain what’s ahead, especially after that 2nd resurrection occurs, when God’s Kingdom will be established on earth:
For example, former king of Israel, David, will be resurrected in flesh/blood and bone via that 2nd resurrection. Yes, Job will come up in the flesh (Job 19:26) also. Oh, also so will Isaiah (Isaiah 26:19) live again in the flesh. None of them come up in the first resurrection; God planned for them to come up later.
Human reproduction again, during David's time?
Why would God, or anybody, need to create more human beings, when the spirits of former human beings returned to God, that God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob, when He can just resurrect them with the capacity to continue to "do their thing:" replenish this earth?
Ezekiel 37:24 "And David my servant [shall be] king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them.”
That yielding to God is going to be somewhat different from what’s happening in this world today under the control of the god of this present evil world and other principalities, but there’s more!
:25 And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, [even] they, and their children, and their children s children for ever: and my servant David [shall be] their prince for ever."
Will God do what He said or not, and will it be for ever, especially with those children’s children?
Time will tell…
John
My apologies. “Anonymous” comment at 11:08 AM with Lesson 22 snippet above was from me.
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