Dave Pack: Demons Sets Me Up By Sending A Crazy Lady to Me Who Later Commits Suicide

Dave says, It is not my fault she shot herself:

Troubled Woman

Looking back, before his Rochester assignment, several ministers at the 1976 Feast of Tabernacles in Mount Pocono summoned Mr. Pack to the festival security office.

“We have a woman here who seems like she may be bothered by a spirit,” they told him. “What do you think?”

Not knowing what to do, they had sent for the young minister because of his training and experience in dealing with brethren troubled by demons. (Recall how in Newburgh, a month before the Feast, there occurred what became an instance in which Mr. Pack had cast seven demons from a man, right in his home.)

Mr. Pack looked at the woman in the security office, who was acting extremely strange. One of the pastors dismissed her bizarre behavior as “pure schizophrenia” and “a psychological problem.”

“No!” Mr. Pack said. “This woman has at least one spirit, and probably two.”

Though they disagreed on the exact nature of her problem, the ministers did agree she had no place at God’s Feast. They immediately sent her home.

Mr. Pack did not give the incident another thought, as the woman was not in the congregations he then served and the problem had been removed from the Feast.

However, on his first Sabbath in Rochester, Mr. Pack was surprised to see the same woman sitting in the congregation—the third of the three serious earlier-described problems about which the local church elder had warned him. Apparently, the previous minister had permitted her to attend services some time after the Feast. It was even more surprising when this same elder later conveyed more of the details of her history.

Mr. Pack attempted to gather all the facts and not rush to judgment, so he visited her at her home. He needed to decide whether he should inform her that she could not attend Sabbath services.

The decision was almost immediately made for him. While he was conducting the local congregation’s first Women’s Club at a nearby Holiday Inn, the still-troubled woman was there, and, during the proceedings, leapt from her chair, threw her arms in the air, and shrieked as she fell backward on the women behind her.

Surrounded by several dozen terrified ladies, Mr. Pack sternly told the woman (actually, the spirit troubling her), “In the name of Jesus Christ, hold still and be quiet.”

She immediately dropped to the floor, trembling.

“Don’t say one word,” Mr. Pack commanded. “I know who and what you are.” Thirty shaken women observed.

An ambulance was called to take her away. When the paramedics arrived, they came to recognize that the woman only responded to Mr. Pack. After they loaded her into the ambulance, they asked him if he would be willing to ride with her to the hospital. It was an unusual request, but he complied, ordering the woman not to utter another word en route, and she did not.

The scene reflected badly upon the Worldwide Church of God in the eyes of the local public. This became another reason in Mr. Pack’s thinking that people who do not belong in God’s Church must not, if possible, be permitted to ever get there in the first place.

Mr. Pack could under no circumstances permit the woman to attend any longer. Since she was vexed by demons, it would have been imprudent to continue working with her while still in the Church. She had been bothered for many years, been divisive, and had shown no signs of progress. Therefore, in accordance with Church doctrine, Mr. Pack did not permit her to attend Sabbath services, and distanced the Church and himself from her.

A year passed with no contact—yet she somehow had the idea that Mr. Pack planned to let her attend services again! That summer, after he returned from vacation, she unexpectedly telephoned him.

“Mr. Pack, while you were gone I was told by one of my friends that I would be allowed to come back to services now that you’re back from vacation.”

Naturally, the minister was confused as to what could have led her to think this. He sought to diffuse the situation.

“I’m sorry,” Mr. Pack said. “You cannot attend. Just keep studying and working with the Bible Correspondence Course at home.”

About two hours later, he received a call from one of the woman’s daughters.

“I’m curious, Mr. Pack,” she said calmly. “What did you say to my mother when she called you?”

The young pastor explained he had not spoken to the woman in almost a year, but had quietly told her she could not return to services, and asked, “Why are you calling?”

The daughter said, “Well, after hanging up the phone with you, Mr. Pack, my mother walked straight out into the backyard and shot herself in the head.”

Staggered by the news, Mr. Pack saw underscored a valuable lesson, again, never to be forgotten: Problems must be diffused immediately. What might have occurred if he had allowed this terribly disturbed woman to fellowship with the local congregation?

Sadly, some today blame Mr. Pack for the troubled woman’s death. Their “reason”? Because he did not show enough “love.”

“I knew that a demon had been involved and had tried to set me up with such a call from her out of the blue. I also remember being very angry that the previous pastor had put me in this position.

“Over the years, my enemies have done much to promote this story and two other accounts, one of which has already been described. Yet I had not the slightest involvement in any of these tragic occasions.

“The stories propagated about my involvement are pure fiction, and all who were involved in each case understood this. Had I been responsible in even a small way for such tragedies, one could have supposed that my ministry would not have continued, or there would have been some kind of consequences. These stories from the past are included here since they are a part of my life’s story, and occupy a place in the realm of ‘urban legend.’

“As I have learned so many times, those in God’s ministry must always be prepared to ‘play the hand that you are dealt’ by the previous pastor, men who were sometimes no more converted than a stump. I did the best I could at playing cards that no incoming minister should receive. But there would be one more similar occasion, and many additional times when ‘inherited’ problems would be laid at my feet. I had been trained from early on that when these things happen you just lean harder into the wind. And I did.”

Dave Pack: Liberalism Invited Demons Into The Church..And Cat Ladies

Dave seems to find demons every place he goes.

The “Cat Lady”

Liberalized doctrine and allowing God’s standards to slide had invited strange and unbalanced people into the Church. Over time, Mr. Pack learned that people with demon problems seek to enter God’s Church when it is in a liberalized, weakened spiritual condition.

During these years, before the advent of the Internet and email, ministers primarily visited members or potential members in their homes. (Of course, this is still ideal.) The vast majority of the many thousands of visits Mr. and Mrs. Pack conducted were positive, even wonderful, experiences. Visiting either members or those desiring baptism and membership was one of the most rewarding aspects of being in the ministry. Few things can compare to seeing firsthand a person’s joy and excitement in learning the truth of God’s Word.

However, some visits could only be described as unique.

In one instance, Mr. and Mrs. Pack visited a woman who had been attending for some years. When they arrived at her house, for some reason she did not want them to come inside. The Packs stood in the driveway, in the hot July sun, speaking with the woman for quite some time.

Mr. Pack finally said, “Could we go inside and talk?”

After stalling, she reluctantly agreed, and they began to enter her home through the screened in front porch, with Mrs. Pack leading the way. But as they approached the front door, she suddenly stopped dead in her tracks.

“Come on, Shirley,” her husband urged, “go inside.”

He could not yet see what had caught her attention. Peering into a darkened room, she saw more than 60 cats—their excrement everywhere, emitting an unimaginable stench! Mr. Pack looked over her shoulder and stopped his gentle pushing from behind!

As the Packs conducted the short remainder of the visit outside, it became further evident that the “Cat Lady” exhibited bizarre behavior and was of a different spirit. Yet, the previous pastor had permitted her into the Church, and to remain there—another example of what happens when an “open door” policy is in effect.

Leaving, Mr. Pack thought about how one of the signs a person is possessed or influenced by a demon is that he lives in absolutely filthy conditions—and by choice. This was one of the first times he had seen this. Christ talked about unclean spirits for more than one reason. God’s Spirit is one of a “sound mind” (II Tim. 1:7).

The “cat lady” never returned to Church.

Dave Pack: Cincinnati..where I leaned to have the "heart of a shepherd"

Yeah right...

Mr. Pack was 27 at the time he would leave Cincinnati. Certain things had “jelled” in his mind by this time. Training under Mr. Reyer had been the catalyst.

“As I continued to visit in an environment where people could be somewhat more difficult to work with, I had to learn to ease in and out of subjects, to set the table, relax and draw out people in a soft manner, if I were to have any chance of helping them. I learned more not just to crash through the door of a subject, but rather to gently play on the edge of it, until a mind was more ready to receive help.

“Every effective minister must develop the ‘heart of a shepherd.’ Without it, all is lost. A man has no chance to effectively work with and lead people if he does not think like a loving shepherd working with sheep, and being willing to lay down his life for them (John 10:1-15). This means he must be willing to battle wolves to the death because he loves God’s people (John 21:15-17).

“He must understand that he is there to serve them and not be served, as so many men never seemed to learn. Mrs. Pack and I would actually be criticized on a few occasions because, as it was sometimes put, ‘You won’t let people do things for you.’ Of course, there were a certain very few exceptions to this, but overall it was true. We would not permit people to pick up our raw milk at the farm, or natural honey, or do our errands and shopping for us. God’s people are generally very giving, and it would have been easy to take advantage of them. They have been taught to give and to serve, and many ministers saw this and treated them as a resource for their own use.

“In the end, when you do this, you certainly get much more than you give. And believe me, I saw this happen time and again through the years. We never left an assignment where we did not feel we got more than we gave, and usually by far. In that sense, ministers reap what they sow. We surely did reap in this way.

“When it came to really understanding the heart of a shepherd, Cincinnati was truly the turning point. I learned much there of ‘being all things to all people to gain the more.’”

Dave Pack: Jim Reyer Made Me Who I Am Today

Now we know why Dave is so screwed up.  Jim Reyer has to be one of the more despised ministers the church had.  His name consistently pops up when members talk about abusive COG ministers. After Reyer wrecked havoc in Ohio he was eventually brought to Pasadena where he continued his hardcore antics. One memorable comment he made to an Imperial student who had a baby out of wedlock, was that the baby was going to be thrown into the lake of fire due to her sin.

“Jim Reyer understood human nature like few I have known. He also had extraordinary discernment of people’s attitudes. He used to talk about ‘hitting into human nature’ through sermons and Church Bible studies. This man understood that certain kinds of more direct messages about vanity, jealousy, resentment, envy, pride, and so forth, would bring feelings to the surface in the congregation that might otherwise stay hidden. He felt it was his duty to speak fairly bluntly on a regular basis.

“This is perhaps where Mr. Reyer showed his greatest courage as a minister. He absolutely never feared in sermons to say what the people needed to hear in lieu of what they may have wanted to hear. In this regard, he had people who would die for him—and others who wanted him to die.

“Mr. Armstrong very much understood you have to speak to human nature—and when you do, plenty of it can surface in the congregation. It did periodically come out in Cincinnati, that’s for sure. The pastor on the other side of town could not have been more opposite in style—nothing but encouraging messages, ever—hence some of the tension I mentioned. I tried to learn what I could about how to avoid meddling in strife that belonged to others.

“Mr. Reyer was very similar to my father. I am convinced that God sent me to work under him so that I would receive what would almost be a ‘second witness’ to my father’s example. Just 26 when I arrived, with Mr. Reyer in his early 40s, he confirmed in my training and understanding how leadership is always willing to take a stand in difficult moments, no matter the personal price one might have to pay.”

Dave Pack finds demons in Cincinnati

More tales from the dark side:

The Spirit World

Mr. Pack experienced in Cincinnati the first installment of what would be another unique training opportunity that most young ministers seldom faced: confronting the frightening reality of the spirit world and demonic possession.

One day while visiting with Mr. Reyer, the pastor was leading a counseling session with a married woman, whose four young daughters were playing quietly in a nearby room.

At a certain moment in the visit, Mr. Reyer saw something strange in the look on her face. His assistant, inexperienced in such matters, listened intently, not discerning anything out of the ordinary.

Suddenly, the pastor looked the woman in the eyes and declared, “You’re a spirit, aren’t you? You are a foul, unclean spirit!”

Her demeanor changed instantly—she snarled at the men like a wild dog bearing its fangs, her 10 fingernails literally raised and pointing toward Mr. Reyer.

He said, “We have to leave right now. We need to go home and fast about this.”

Mr. Pack left the house in disbelief.

The pastor called Mr. Frank McCrady, the minister from Chicago who had trained him years earlier. This man was generally recognized among the ministry as the one with the most years of experience and most discernment with people troubled by demons. From these two trained and experienced men, Mr. Pack learned firsthand about dealing with the spirit world, lessons and experience that would be important training for his later ministry.

Several days after their encounter, Mr. Reyer and Mr. Pack met with the troubled husband and wife in the living room of the Packs’ home on the north side of Cincinnati. Just before Mr. Reyer commanded the spirit to stop troubling the woman, she began a high-pitched shriek that Mr. Pack described as “a screaming hawk diving on prey.”

Moments later, she shot up from her chair and seized her husband, locking her fingers around his throat in a death grip while taking him to the floor. Mr. Reyer grabbed one of her arms and Mr. Pack the other. At 6’3,” the pastor was a powerful man. Both he and the younger minister were in top physical condition—yet they struggled with the small woman.

While pulling the woman off her husband, Mr. Reyer had commanded, “In the name of Jesus Christ, come out!”

The evil spirit obeyed Christ’s authority immediately, and departed from the woman—and only then were these two strong men able to now easily lift her fingers from her husband’s throat.

She immediately dropped to the carpet as if dead. The men stared as she slowly started to move. As Mr. Reyer lifted her up, she said, “Oh, thank you so much.”

“How long has that spirit been in you?” he asked.

“Since I was seven years old.”

Mr. Pack stood amazed at the event he had just witnessed. This was a ministry-changing experience. The reality of the power and evil of the spirit world was forever seared into his mind. This training would be needed in the future.