Dennis Muses: You've Been Smeckledorfed!"

What David C. Pack  Eliminated Speaks So Loud We Can't Hear What He is Now Saying

 

 

 

I believe it is important to remember what Dave Pack wants you to forget.  After all, he said he'll want you to forget this stuff, that he ever said it in the first place or that he didn't mean it to mean what you thought he meant it to mean.

 

Remember he said...

 

 

"I want to make a statement about...me...now, if I became deceived, I will never tell you what I'm going to tell you now...I am telling you if I go off into strange ideas, misconduct, rebellion, you name it, don't follow me. I want to tell you that now, because if I start doing that I'm gonna try to get you to follow me! I'm gonna come to you and tell you it doesn't apply, it doesn't mean me, no, no, no, no, no, no, it's OK to follow me because ABCD and XY and Z. Do you understand what I'm saying? Listen to me now, when I tell you don't follow me if I go off into weird ideas, or if I get off into other things that are total absolutely unscriptural conduct, because if I do I'm gonna paint it with a different face and try to get you to follow me. Do you understand what I'm saying brethren? Please remember that, because I promise you that if I become deceived, I'll forget it, and I'll want you to forget it...And I hope you'll remember it well enough to quote it right back to me...But I'll tell you what, I'm not going anywhere."

 

 

Well maybe Dave Pack did not go anywhere back then, but he has since and so let's be reminded of what we must forget was ever thought about the largest,  most complex and yet simple to decode prophecy about David C. Pack and the Return of the Disfellowshipped by God under one leader (guess who?) in the Bible.

 

I admit, I am not a brethren in the RCG, but someone has to do what Dave asked or he's going to deceive us all.  He told us that.  (I love that quote).   So, if no one else is going to remember it well enough to quote it right back to Dave, I guess I will for at least future posterity in such matters. 

 

 

12)   Eliminated The readers of the Haggai prophecy announcements (this is #21) who believed them would be the most disillusioned and the biggest candidates to QUIT everything if God did not return His people to one House this year! This would work directly against what God is doing—directly opposite His overall purpose.

 

 

It is easy to see why this was eliminated from the original 24 reasons in the original Announcement 21 The Time is Now!  Dave understands at least the price of being wrong, which he was.  It remains to be seen how many are dis-illusioned, which is a good thing, because who wants to be "illusioned."  Sticking with Dave is to be "Illusioned."  And yes, it would work against the purposes of RCG

13)  Eliminated Further desolation (Hag. 1:11; 2:16-17) from God of the splinter “houses” would practically wipe out the few remaining senior leaders in them. This includes pastors and elders, all of whom are NEEDED TO CARRY OUT THE BIG WORK!


Dave wanted those senior leaders to come over to him so badly  and further delay would take them out of the picture before this could come about.  Dave must now believe that these senior men will live longer and have more time to still come over to him.  Or perhaps he has given up on this ever happening, which I am sure is the safer bet.


14) Eliminated  The onset of all future years would never come with clarity—with any certainty! Would God leave thousands who are now aware of this prophecy in such a condition? Hardly.

 

 

Oops can't say this anymore!  Dave has now stated that even more clarity is coming after the screw up in "timing."  Things never before seen are now going to be seen so that's clarity alright.  Thus, this has to go.  Obviously this years failures don't muddy the waters.  They clear them up. Just you watch.

 

15) Eliminated Next, for those who will see the value of how to pursue spiritual matters, there is this: After fervently seeking God about it, not one reason the prophecy is off this year ever emerged in the minds of even one of our 16 Headquarters ministers! I (we) have NEVER prayed about, studied over, meditated on, fasted about and counseled with other ministers regarding a subject more than this one—in fact no other subject is even close! -

 

 

And isn't this a sad one?  If we leave this one Dave's crew of 16 kiss ups look like...well...kiss ups.  Dave has now learned that everyone agreeing with you is not a sign of  truth.  It's a sign of...kissing up, probably to keep status and jobs.  Dave has also learned that just because you pray, study, meditate, fast and ask other kiss..., ministers about the topic, doesn't mean you're going to get the right answer.  "Woe be unto you when all men speak good of you" and all that.  So we have to vote no on this being on how one pursues spiritual matters ever again.

16) Eliminated Similarly, as questions emerged throughout our pursuit of truth with the many details of the prophecy, so many of these details kept coming clear as direct answers to prayer. And these were often immediate.



This one has to go because once again, Dave has learned what we all knew ourselves, that details that keep coming like clear answers to prayer are no sign of anything.  You simply end up with a very detailed mistake.


17) Eliminated Recall Haggai 1:13: “Then spoke Haggai the Lord’s messenger in the Lord’s message unto the people…” Haggai is the messenger to God’s people, with what is an all-important message from God. Would not God make clear in such a unique message He describes as “the Lord’s message unto His people” the correct date for action? What kind of message would it be if people did not know WHEN TO CARRY IT OUT?

 

Here we now see that Dave has learned once and for all that "A" with God does not always lead to Dave's "B".   I would think  since the people still don't know when to carry it out, the message was flawed to begin with.  It might do Dave some good to consider that the message of Haggai never  had anything to do with him, RCG or the Splinters.  He made that all up in his head and this is why there is confusion as to the "when."   "Never" is the answer to the "when".

19) Eliminated Imagine God not revealing the year the remnant is coming—but only the day and month. Vast amounts of time would have been wasted by His leaders studying and preparing for something that was not imminent. Would God put His Church in such a position?

 

 

I can imagine it now Dave.  Can you?   I'm pretty sure you even got the day and month wrong. Evidently God has put 'His Church" in this position, maybe just for fun.  Who knows?

20) Eliminated  Of interest, God revealed to me during ELUL four years ago my role as the modern Joshua.

 

Evidently not of interest at all and eliminating this may mean Dave will have to rethink his "Joshua" fantasy.  I bet the world "Elul" will never feel good again to Dave!  It also reveals that Dave now has to wonder just what God did or did not reveal to him.  I'm going with did not.

21) Eliminated Also of interest, I and The Restored Church of God learned about the New Testament remnant last ELUL (August). Let’s ask: Would timing of when we were shown the prophecy not be tied to its unique timing of fulfillment during the very next available ELUL?

 

This one violates eliminated reason 20 because Dave knew FOUR YEARS AGO he was Joshua but kept it to himself until now. He should have revealed this the very next available ELUL!   Again, evidently it's not tied to anything Dave tied it to.  So this one had to go.  Dave is going to have to stop tying the wrong knots on his sailboat which seems blown around by various winds of doctrines he makes up.

"And I hope you'll remember it well enough to quote it right back to me..."
David C. Pack

So I did...
Dennis C. Diehl

 

 

Belief In An Angry God Can Create Poor Mental Health

From REAL CLEAR SCIENCE

Belief in Angry God Associated with Poor Mental Health by Ross Pomeroy

Nahum 1:2-8 - 2 The LORD is a jealous and vengeful God; the LORD is vengeful and strong in wrath... 4 He can blast the sea and make it dry up; he can dry up all the rivers... 5 The mountains quake because of him; the hills melt away. The earth heaves before him-- the world and all who dwell in it. 6 Who can stand before his indignation? Who can confront the heat of his fury? His wrath pours out like fire; the rocks are shattered because of him... 8 With a rushing flood, he will utterly destroy her place and pursue his enemies into darkness.

John 3:16 - For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

If God exists, is he (or she, or whatever) inherently benevolent or punitive? The two Bible selections above clearly demonstrate that God can be both, but many believers cordon their perception of the Almighty into a singular view. This fundamental categorization may be more influential than one might think, as recently published research demonstrates that how a believer conceives of God could affect his or her mental health.

The findings, discerned by a team of psychologists led by Nava Silton of Marymount Manhattan College, are intriguing, especially considering that more than nine out of every ten Americans believe in some sort of God.

Analyzing a Gallup survey conducted in 2010, the researchers sought to determine how one's perception of God -- as punitive, benevolent, or indifferent -- was associated with five different psychiatric symptoms: general anxiety, social anxiety, paranoia, obsession, and compulsion.

Respondents' characterizations of God were gleaned from their opinions of how six adjectives -- absolute, critical, just, punishing, severe, or wrathful -- applied to God. A numbering system was used to gauge the degree to which the subject viewed the adjective as an accurate descriptor of God (very well = 4; somewhat well = 3, not very well = 2, etc.). In a similar fashion, respondents answered queries designed to measure the five aforementioned psychiatric symptoms.

The researchers found that belief in a punitive God was significantly associated with an increase in social anxiety, paranoia, obsession, and compulsion. Conversely, belief in a benevolent God was associated with reductions in those four symptoms. Belief in an indifferent God was not linked to any symptoms.

So does this mean that God-fearing individuals are more anxious because of their beliefs, or that individuals who believe in a loving God have less to worry about? Possibly both, say the researchers. But before we delve into that notion, let's get skeptical.

While the study benefited from a large sample size and its findings agreed with a plethora of previous research, there are a great many limitations. First and foremost, the data was self-reported, which is susceptible to invariable outside influences. Additionally, the study was cross-sectional, meaning that it cannot conclusively say whether belief in a benevolent or punitive God affected the psychiatric symptoms or vice versa. Moreover, diagnosing such symptoms via a self-reported questionnaire is certainly suboptimal.

Still, the results are quite provocative. According to the researchers, they make sense in light of the Evolutionary Threat Assessment System Theory, which states that overarching beliefs about the dangerousness of the world can influence mental well-being.

"We propose that belief in a benevolent God inhibits threat assessments about the dangerousness of the world, thereby decreasing psychiatric symptoms," the researchers write.

But they also say that the pendulum can swing to the other side as well.

"Belief in a punitive God... facilitates threat assessments that the world is dangerous and even that God poses a threat of harm, thereby increasing psychiatric symptomology."

Source: Silton NR, Flannelly KJ, Galek K, Ellison CG. "Beliefs About God and Mental Health Among American Adults." J Relig Health. 2013 Apr 10

Book by Former COG Member: Coming Out of Hell: A Journey From Chaos to Redemption

Coming Out of Hell: A Journey From Chaos to Redemption

I continue to be fascinated by the number of books that are coming out by former Armstrongites detailing their journey out of the cult.  Some go in agnostic and atheist directions, some have went into native American spirituality, some into Catholicism and Lutheranism, and others into a deeper relationship of Jesus in other branches of Christianity.

This one has been out a while, but this is the first I have heard of it.  Another one for my ever expanding collection of books about Armstrongism.  I am now at 85+ books by former members and critics.

Barnes and Noble says:

Every person on Earth experiences sin and brokenness. But even embracing a new life in Christ does not automatically resolve the pain and bitterness of past struggles and abuse. In this remarkably candid and uplifting book, psychologist David Bonnet bares his soul, using his long battle with depression and even longer involvement with a powerful cult to show how victory in Christ can transform a shattered life.

Coming Out of Hell is a gripping story of deliverance from the deception, manipulation, and shame of cultic involvement. It takes an inside look at how individuals and families in the grips of spiritual, emotional, and financial chaos can find healing by submitting these wounds to Jesus Christ and finding peace by living in His presence.

Living Church of God Death and Destruction Video Short Showcase The Same Old Bullshit

The sickness that is Armstrongism still cannot get its message across even when they try to be technologically relevant.  They still look like complete idiots.

They cant talk about Jesus, but still love the death and destruction of humanity.

Dennis Muses: "I never said that...."

 

Wonders in the Wiggle Room

The Fine Art of Altering Church History

 

 

From David C. Pack's Original , Pre August 31, 2013 Announcement 21

"The Time Is NOW!

Now comes a series of reasons Haggai’s prophecy will be fulfilled this year. They are summarized, with only a very little detail added. More could be said of each, but the descriptions given will suffice to those willing to think just a little about them. Realize there are over 30 more reasons—many of them very powerful—that I have left off the list because some will be covered later or because they would only be recognized as proofs by our Headquarters ministry (involving various miracles, some big). Readers would be largely unable to appreciate them as proofs:

1) Understanding the meaning of the prophecy, starting with Haggai 1:2, automatically carries the requirement of taking a position on it. This cannot be avoided after one learns it. Think about this. The position of the remnant is that “the time is not come” to rebuild God’s House. Are they right or wrong? God indicts their thinking, meaning they are wrong! If the prophecy is not now, the net effect would be that God agrees with the remnant’s view. Worse, so should those currently in God’s one Church because they now know the meaning of the prophecy. Think this through. One does or does not agree with the remnant. God does not—and we do not. The time is now! Let’s go further.

2) Directly related, why (or how) would God command the remnant to “Go…build the House!” (Hag. 1:8)—but not mean NOW? How could He mean some undetermined future year? Why would God tell them (twice) to “consider their ways”—but not mean that they should do this now? Try to imagine God saying, “Consider your ways, but take your time. There’s no hurry. In fact, take years to think it over—even though you have been out of My Church for 20 years! You don’t have to DO anything now.”

3) Also related, if God waited 2,500 years to reveal the prophecy’s meaning (3,000 years when various related much older Psalms are considered), is not His waiting done? Does His revealing it not signal that He has reached the time to fulfill it rather than having reached a point one, two or three years out?

4) Next, why would God wait longer? What would He wait for? The remnant is absolutely ripe for deliverance.

5) Internally, and this is no small thing, God’s Church is truly ready to expand the Work in a BIG WAY. The prophecy features this as the MAIN PURPOSE of the remnant returning! Without the prophecy’s fulfillment, this expansion would be delayed one year—or more! Why would God notify His Church of the prophecy’s existence at the very same time our staff is ready, our websites are ready, our literature is ready and even God’s college is ready for more students if the prophecy were not imminent? Why would God notify His Church if HE were not ready?

6) Related to this, the buildings on our campus can very soon handle significantly more staff than we have now. This is already true without the other two buildings scheduled for completion in the late fall. However, this extra size works perfectly if the prophecy occurs this year.

7) Also related, but separate, our infrastructure is ready to receive and serve a much larger flock this fall! This includes field ministry being ready, but also other things.

8) Maturing interest from many in the world due to one year of explosive television expansion requires many more laborers in the ministry by this autumn.

9) The Restored Church of God is experiencing an AWESOME period of growth and development at this time—in the runup period just prior to the prophecy’s fulfillment. This is putting it mildly! To us, this is powerful indication that we are on the right track for this year—that God is not only pleased with His Church, but that He is helping it get ready.

10) If the prophecy did not happen this year, the remnant would remain another year (or more) undergoing ever worsening false ways. Worse off, they would have a commensurate shorter time to spiritually recover before the Tribulation. Think worse condition, less time to recover.

11) If reunification occurred next year (or any year after), those with God’s Spirit would have one more year cut off from God’s Church. This carries the potential for more to quench the Holy Spirit (I Thes. 5:19) and lose salvation.

12)   Elimintaed The readers of the Haggai prophecy announcements (this is #21) who believed them would be the most disillusioned and the biggest candidates to QUIT everything if God did not return His people to one House this year! This would work directly against what God is doing—directly opposite His overall purpose.

13)  Eliminated Further desolation (Hag. 1:11; 2:16-17) from God of the splinter “houses” would practically wipe out the few remaining senior leaders in them. This includes pastors and elders, all of whom are NEEDED TO CARRY OUT THE BIG WORK!

14) Eliminated  The onset of all future years would never come with clarity—with any certainty! Would God leave thousands who are now aware of this prophecy in such a condition? Hardly.

15) Eliminated Next, for those who will see the value of how to pursue spiritual matters, there is this: After fervently seeking God about it, not one reason the prophecy is off this year ever emerged in the minds of even one of our 16 Headquarters ministers! I (we) have NEVER prayed about, studied over, meditated on, fasted about and counseled with other ministers regarding a subject more than this one—in fact no other subject is even close!

16) Eliminated Similarly, as questions emerged throughout our pursuit of truth with the many details of the prophecy, so many of these details kept coming clear as direct answers to prayer. And these were often immediate.

17) Eliminated Recall Haggai 1:13: “Then spoke Haggai the Lord’s messenger in the Lord’s message unto the people…” Haggai is the messenger to God’s people, with what is an all-important message from God. Would not God make clear in such a unique message He describes as “the Lord’s message unto His people” the correct date for action? What kind of message would it be if people did not know WHEN TO CARRY IT OUT?

18)Now Point 12  Since the apostasy, God had not wanted the remnant back in His Church, but now He does. He would first reveal the remnant to His leader, then tell him how they would return, and finally that He meant NOW. This was the order in which these things became apparent.

19) Eliminated Imagine God not revealing the year the remnant is coming—but only the day and month. Vast amounts of time would have been wasted by His leaders studying and preparing for something that was not imminent. Would God put His Church in such a position?

20) Eliminated  Of interest, God revealed to me during ELUL four years ago my role as the modern Joshua.

21) Eliminated Also of interest, I and The Restored Church of God learned about the New Testament remnant last ELUL (August). Let’s ask: Would timing of when we were shown the prophecy not be tied to its unique timing of fulfillment during the very next available ELUL?

22) Now Point 13We might ask: does the DEVIL know the prophecy is on? For those who understand how the devil works—that he counterfeits EVERYTHING God does—a variety of counterfeit theories have recently appeared about how God is going to reunite His people. Should not the devil be expected to do this at the time it would cause the most confusion? You will soon see that most of these theories are coming from men standing on the wrong side of this prophecy.

23) Now Point 14  With God’s people split up, it is now almost impossible to do a powerful Work. (This might be the one area where the splinter leaders would agree.) God’s Church is largely stymied in working with both brethren and the world because of the confusion and deception from top leaders about where God’s Church is, who has the truth, who is carrying on after Mr. Armstrong, who is doing the true Work, etc. (Reread #22.) There is no other way to proceed than for God to remove leaders who have lulled with deceit many thousands who were blind (Rev. 3:17) to begin with.

24) Now Point 15 World conditions cry out for a big Work NOW!!!—not one or more years from now.

I repeat: There are many more reasons for a 2013 fulfillment, with a few of a personal nature—and others involving God moving miraculously to reveal crucial things at certain times within an extraordinarily complex prophecy that involves hundreds of verses. I have not included all of these reasons because others would likely not accept them as legitimate. They are, however, on MY much longer list (now 56 total). And these reasons stand on bedrock in the eyes of ALL our Headquarters ministers.


From David C. Packs Updated, Altered, Erased and Redacted New Announcement 21 Post August 31, 2013

"The Time Is Imminent!

Now comes a series of reasons the fulfillment of Haggai’s prophecy cannot be far off. They are summarized, with only a very little detail added. More could be said of each, but the descriptions given will suffice to those willing to think just a little about them:

1) Understanding the meaning of the prophecy, starting with Haggai 1:2, automatically carries the requirement of taking a position on it. This cannot be avoided after one learns it. Think about this. The position of the remnant is that “the time is not come” to rebuild God’s House. Are they right or wrong? God indicts their thinking, meaning they are wrong! If the prophecy is not soon, the net effect would be that God agrees with the remnant’s view. Worse, so should those currently in God’s one Church because they now know the meaning of the prophecy. Think this through. One does or does not agree with the remnant. God does not—and we do not. Let’s go further.

2) Directly related, why (or how) would God command the remnant to “Go…build the House!” (Hag. 1:8)—but somehow mean many years from now? Why would God tell them (twice) to “consider their ways”—but not mean that they should do this now? Try to imagine God saying, “Consider your ways, but take your time. There’s no hurry. In fact, take years to think it over—even though you have been out of My Church for 20 years! You don’t have to DO anything now.”

3) Also related, if God waited 2,500 years to reveal the prophecy’s meaning (3,000 years when various related much older Psalms are considered), is not His waiting done? Does His revealing it not signal that He has reached the time to fulfill it rather than having reached a point one, two or three years out?

4) Next, why would God wait longer? What would He wait for? The remnant is ripe for deliverance.

5) Internally, and this is no small thing, God’s Church is truly ready to expand the Work in a BIG WAY. The prophecy features this as the MAIN PURPOSE of the remnant returning!

6) Related to this, the buildings on our campus can very soon handle significantly more staff than we have now. This is already true without the other two buildings scheduled for completion in the late fall.

7) Also related, but separate, our infrastructure is ready to receive and serve a much larger flock! This includes field ministry being ready, but also other things.

8) Maturing interest from many in the world due to one year of explosive television expansion requires many more laborers in the ministry in the near future.

9) The Restored Church of God is experiencing an AWESOME period of growth and development at this time—in the runup period just prior to the prophecy’s fulfillment. This is putting it mildly! To us, this is powerful indication that we are on the right track—that God is not only pleased with His Church, but that He is helping it get ready.

10) For each year that passes before the prophecy’s fulfillment, the remnant would remain another year (or more) undergoing ever worsening false ways. Worse off, they would have a commensurate shorter time to spiritually recover before the Tribulation. Think worse condition, less time to recover.

11) Altered Similarly, those with God’s Spirit would have one more year cut off from God’s Church. This carries the potential for more to quench the Holy Spirit (I Thes. 5:19) and lose salvation.

12) Was Point 18 in old Since the apostasy, God had not wanted the remnant back in His Church, but now He does. He would first reveal the remnant to His leader, then tell him how they would return, and finally that He meant soon. This was the order in which these things became apparent.

13) Formerly point 22 We might ask: does the DEVIL know the prophecy is on in the near term? For those who understand how the devil works—that he counterfeits EVERYTHING God does—a variety of counterfeit theories have recently appeared about how God is going to reunite His people. Should not the devil be expected to do this at the time it would cause the most confusion? You will soon see that most of these theories are coming from men standing on the wrong side of this prophecy.

14) Was point 23 With God’s people split up, it is now almost impossible to do a powerful Work. (This might be the one area where the splinter leaders would agree.) God’s Church is largely stymied in working with both brethren and the world because of the confusion and deception from top leaders about where God’s Church is, who has the truth, who is carrying on after Mr. Armstrong, who is doing the true Work, etc. (Reread #22.) There is no other way to proceed than for God to remove leaders who have lulled with deceit many thousands who were blind (Rev. 3:17) to begin with.

15) Was point 24 World conditions cry out for a big Work NOW!!!—not years from now.

Some summary review. Since the prophecy has been revealed, brethren have new knowledge. They know God disagrees with the remnant’s decision that it is not yet time to come together and build His House. With knowledge comes responsibility (Jms. 4:17; Heb. 10:26).

Could not agree more and now that we know the simple complex Haggai Prophecy did not come to pass as presented, the responsible thing to do is apologize.