Sunday, June 24, 2012

COGWA: Setting The Standard For Armstrongism



In between all the legalistic mumbo-jumbo and prophetic nonsense there can be found little tidbits of information on apostle Malm's blog.

Here are some comments about the worlds newest and most perfect Church of God who did everything in the most transparent way it could as it set a sterling Christian example for all the other COG's.  Cough, cough....


Joel DID try to dissaffect the French Board, and he did tour the French areas attacking UCG and encouraging them to split UCG.

COGWA people were caught and stopped at the last minute from transferring many thousands from the Philippean church to their own coffers, and Jeff Caudel is being sued for doing the same thing in NZ.


In Fact the Franks Kilough team had set up secret websites and secretly recruited elders to join their coming split for many months.


This was handled in an entirely ungodly and dishonest fashion.


And of course UCG and the other groups are just as bad in their own way.


The whole COG situation is a disaster and totally ungodly in actions and example.


God is disgusted with us and that is why the corporate groups are being spewed out of the body of Jesus Christ.

39 comments:

Anonymous said...

James Malm included himself, along with the United Association and COGWAssociation, when he wrote the following: "...The whole COG situation is a disaster and totally ungodly in actions and example.

God is disgusted with us and that is why the corporate groups are being spewed out of the body of Jesus Christ..."

And perhaps he is correct to finally admit he and his "coglet" are part of the "disaster."

Why doesn't James Malm just quote the apostle Paul when he says what he says about himself (and James has spewed out plenty of "junk food" speculations out of his own mind) and others?

2 Corinthians 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
:15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

Even Ron Weinland professed to "look so righteous," but his fruits show how much into mammon he was/is and continues to be so long as he is allowed to behave as he has.

James still believes footwashing occurs after the Passover emblems are partaken at the Passover service (to cite one example), despite the fact that 2 eyewitnesses to that last Passover of Christ prove that the footwashing occurs before the emblems, but James, in his own eyes, will see it no other way.

Then James hammers all of those who don't zealously "keep God's commandments" like "he professes to," but has James ever once read the following written to/about true Christians, sealed Firstfruits?

Romans 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

Why doesn't James Malm see that sin dwelling in himself? That he can't zealously keep God's law like he is telling the rest of us to do! He probably has never kept one single Sabbath day 100% perfect for a single 24-hour period in his entire life!

James, we do the best we can with what we have!!!!!!!!!! God will take care of things in His good time, or don't you believe that? He's got the power; we don't!

John

Anonymous said...

One other thought comes to mind:

James Malm, if you read this, how about you and evil? Evil was present with the apostle Paul, who was driven supposedly by God's Spirit dwelling within him, so how about you? Is evil present with you?

James, to make my point, it's because of verses like 20-21 that we cannot zealously keep God's law as you profess to do and tell us we must do!

This entire creation was MADE subject to vanity! How do you get around that verse (Romans 8:20)?

James, if you are a Christian, as those of United Ass. and COGWAss profess themselves to be, then here is another reason no other human being, except Christ Himself, perfectly, zealously, keeps God's commandments:

James 4:5 Do ye think that the scripture saith in vain, The spirit that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy?

James will you deny James' (no relation to you) words there and say that "spirit...that lusteth to envy" is NOT in you? Did James lie to us? Did Paul lie to us? Did Christ, for that matter, who said of Himself He could do nothing, also lie to us? And you will somehow "magically" do more? And you are not even Christ's twin brother!

Are you a Christian, a sealed Firstfruit, or not? James and Paul were.

So, yes, James, it was good to see that you included yourself in this "disaster," unless it was a dyslexic-moment and you really didn't mean it, as you call it, because we are all in the same boat...striving to do the best we can with what we have. True, perhaps some don't have as much as others. So what? James, just like United Assoc. and the Cogwassoc, you are spewing out your share of "junk food" speculations.

What do we have? 3 choices of junk food speculations to choose from? 300 choices of junk food speculations?

Junk food is junk food? It's not very nourishing, although it may look good...even taste good.

Hey, someday, we'll be able to ask Adam and Eve about what they really ate, but it did happen after Satan got to both of them! Join "the club!"

Am I saying: "Don't keep God's law?" No, it's a way of life. If one has God's Spirit they will automatically be doing the keeping of God's law to the best that they can, depending upon God's will in their lives (Rev 2-3). God knows His sheep; He does not need to test them as you and those who follow you say. Christ knew what was "in man;" so does God the Father know that.

The question is: do you really, really, know what is "in man?"

I believe once you see what is "in you," then you won't beat the rest of us as much as you, but time will tell...

John

Anonymous said...

It looks like Paul’s advice to the Christians in his day could be applied to today.
(Gal 5:15 NIV) If you keep on biting and devouring each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other.

Douglas Becker said...

Straight to the point: They are all false prophets teaching what the dead false prophet taught.

None of them are righteous, no not one.

From such turn away.

It will take years of recovery.

Douglas Becker said...

CoGWA is a niche addiction.

Anonymous said...

While flawed teachings contribute to problems in a church they are not the primary source of problems. It is the flawed leadership that does the most damage. Doctrinal flaws have existed for centuries and still exist, but it is the serious flaws in those who have been established by others or themselves as leaders and set themselves up as god’s instrument between god and people that will create the most emotional and physical damage.
False prophets could not do damage if they could not control people. Exposing their flaws is only part of the solution. The Biblical solution is a legitimate re-education process that includes destroying the dependency on man and building a confidence in a balanced personal belief and trust in the existence the God that is the origin of life. I do not know of a workable solution that excludes God.

Steve Kisack said...

So far, I have not seen a workable solution that INCLUDES God...in myself or others. But, I still have a few years left...maybe. :-)

Douglas Becker said...

False prophets are all about controlling people. Let's see, what did Jesus say? Oh, yeah, that false prophets are ravening wolves in sheep's clothing.

It's the ravening part.

They are hungry for money and building their egos.

And it wouldn't be so bad if it were just one lone wolf, but these Armstrongists run in packs (and not just the David Pack).

Anonymous said...

DB said: False prophets are all about controlling people. Let's see, what did Jesus say? Oh, yeah, that false prophets are ravening wolves in sheep's clothing.

This is true if we were dealing with Sheep and Wolves, but we are dealing with teachable people and teacher-prophets that are sending false messages. Now if we could eliminate all the false messengers and messages the problem still would not be solved, because religious people want information regarding the purpose and future of human life. The only solution is open discussion about their beliefs without the critical condemnation of authoritarian know-it alls.

Douglas Becker said...

But as we have proved, in Armstrongism, there aren't authoritarian know-it-alls.

The authoritarians know nothing at all and we know that for sure because they are false prophets.

By branding the authoritarians as false prophets and proving the case, we've instantly eliminated all need for open discussion.

Anyway, there won't be any open discussion because these fantasy seekers can't discern between delusion and reality: They just don't have the mental capacity to engage in such high concept things, which is the reason we have to resort to pointing out that the religious leaders are (analogy) ravenous wolves -- something that many people know and understand because it is too difficult for many to understand the concept of narcissists, sociopaths, psychopaths who behave in a manner that is immoral, unethical, illegal and sometimes fattening.

Anonymous said...

They just don't have the mental capacity to engage in such high concept things...

And why is that Douglas? Are they sub-human?

Douglas Becker said...

They've been turned into zombies (another imperfect analogy). If you don't believe and have seen the false prophet Ronald Weinland blog site -- noting the PKGers still have not left the Church of God, Inc (the official legal title under which Weinland operates), then there isn't anything which will help bridge the gap of understanding.

No, they're not subhuman.

It's the psychopaths whose brainwaves Dr. Robert Hare studied which showed the psychopaths aren't human -- at least their brainwaves indicate that they are not.

People are not wolves or sheep.

People are wolves and sheep.

From a certain point of view.

Ah, there's nothing like the suspicious point of view from an anonymous poster in a drive by....

Anonymous said...

DB I really feel sorry for you (honestly) your view of people made in the image of God is unrealistic and you are out of touch with reality. Actually it is representative of a true Armstrongite. The leadership was the autocrats that graduated for God’s college and those poor people in the local congregations were not intelligent enough to manage their own affairs.

I am fully aware of the fact that people are still involved in those questionable fellowships, but I also recognize that there is a social need being filled that you cannot possibly understand. It isn’t about money, doctrine, or even authority. It is about a thing called “love”. This is not a sexual attraction it is about respect toward God and man.

Granted it is wrongly directed, but I can guarantee that those who are attracted to groups such as those have been made to feel they are important and comments such as you made will only drive the wedge deeper since there no evidence of concern for their feelings. I doubt a psychologist would be able make much progress toward helping them break their relationship with those organizations by pointing out how bad the relationship with such an organization is unless he could show them the he really cared for them and had a solution that would give them a greater love.

I am not supporting groups such as those; in fact I have looked for alternatives in my effort to help people find something I feel would be an alternative. In a few incidences I have been successful, but so far all of the options are like going from the frying pan into the fire. It may take more time than I have yet to live.
I hope there is no offence, but this is my perspective of things.
My name is not important so you can refer to me as Mr. Nobody

Anonymous said...

"The Biblical solution is a legitimate re-education process that includes destroying the dependency on man and building a confidence in a balanced personal belief and trust in the existence the God that is the origin of life."


Will never happen. Who is going to do the re-educating? The majority of individual believers aren't going to educate themselves-this is exactly why there are "priests" in almost every religion that has existed, and always will be.
The average believer inherently believes that he or she is incapable of fully understanding the mysteries of their religion. If the religion is based on oral traditions, with no codified body of literature, the believer has no choice but to depend on "priests" If there is some body of work, it is usually complex and contradictory (Bible, Koran, etc) and the believer, even if committed to self-education, rarely ends up with a straight answer.
So in the end, they will have to rely on others. And given that the Bible itself does place some importance on the use of priests and "ministers," there will always be a legitimate (in the eyes of the believers) need for one person to teach another person. Since every person is corruptible- the presence of the Holy Spirit doesn't seem to have any affect on corruptibility- a religion will always have corrupt leadership. The best a religion can do is set up a system of checks and balances to prevent corrupt people from having control over other believers.

Of course, the most simple and guaranteed solution to prevent religious abuse is to stop believing in imaginary beings. In this case, a person will never experience emotional, financial, or physical abuse from religious leaders. Its the Final Solution. Of course, some people can't see any point in existence without believing that there is some deity up there taking a special interest in their every day lives (I find plenty of reasons to enjoy existence), and in that case the best thing to do would be to limit contact with other believers. Stay home with the Bible.

Paul R.

Anonymous said...

Paul R. said:
The Biblical solution is a legitimate re-education process that includes destroying the dependency on man and building a confidence in a balanced personal belief and trust in the existence the God that is the origin of life."
Will never happen. Who is going to do the re-educating?

You are right Paul. The whole history of Christianity has struggled with this problem from the very beginning. The only hope given is in the belief that Christ will return to establish such a government. If that is a fantasy; as Paul said we are to be greatly pitied, but it is the hope that keeps Christianity alive and well. Of course there are those who believe we will go to Heaven to a better life. In the mean time we could try to live a life of love toward God and neighbor; we might like it.

Anonymous said...

"there is a social need being filled that you cannot possibly understand...those who are attracted to groups such as those have been made to feel they are important..."

In other words, Armstrongites are weak people who are attracted by their need to feel important. All it costs is 20-30% of your income plus 1/7 of your time (minimum). Mind you, this is not for a cure, it is for ongoing management of the symptoms. COGs want people to continue to be weak and continue to feel unimportant. They do not want these people to be cured or to get better, they just want to keep them enslaved to their system, so that the money keeps coming in.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said:
In other words, Armstrongites are weak people who are attracted by their need to feel important. All it costs is 20-30% of your income plus 1/7 of your time (minimum). Mind you, this is not for a cure, it is for ongoing management of the symptoms. COGs want people to continue to be weak and continue to feel unimportant. They do not want these people to be cured or to get better, they just want to keep them enslaved to their system, so that the money keeps coming in.

I will not belabor the point, but I think there is a lack in understanding of the psychology of this religion. These people do not see their sacrifices of time and money in the same light as some may. They believe it is a service for God and what He is doing. Remember they believe they are God’s people and their leaders are chosen by God (whether the leaders believe this is debatable) and they are all important. It is an upside down situation. Instead of seeing God’s love for them in the fact that they are the work of God (not doing the work of God) they are in some way fulfilling an obligation to God for loving for them. The Grace principle is suppose to correct this, but it has not been explained well enough or correct enough to help many who have been a part of the legalistic system built by HWA. I am not sure this helps explain some of my comments, but main point is that we may be trying to fix a problem that they do not see as a problem.

I did not intend this to be such a controversial issue, but some of the things brought out about those attracting peoples attention are things that Christianity dealt with before they solidified into the orthodox Roman church.
Maybe we can put it to bed. Unless someone sees a dangerously glowing problem in some of the things posted.

Assistant Deacon said...

"God is disgusted with us..."

I'm sure God is relieved Malm cleared that up for him.

Anonymous said...

Not to belabor the point either, but I think most of us here have done sufficient decades of slavitude in the "legalistic system" originally built by HWA to completely and totally understand the psychology of WCG and its many clones. You obviously don't know who you're talking to.

The point I feel you're asking to be belabored is that it is WRONG to enslave people, no matter what the means used to do it. Even if the slaves remain duped and bedazzled and can't seem to figure out what is really going on, it's still WRONG and EVIL! I know this is a difficult point to grasp for some. Who gives a rat's ass about god's love, the grace principle, or calcified orthodoxy? The fact is, the leaders are con artists and the members are being enslaved by them, which is CONTRARY to their best interest. It is in the member's best interests to be taught how to be strong and how to become people who actually have some importance, not kept weak for the financial benefit of others. Who cares what light the slaves may see things in? What is really in their best interest is not changed by the lighting! Spin it however you want to, the whole thing is still WRONG! All people who are willing to be honest with themselves can know for sure which is the right light to see all these things in and which is the wrong light, because, check it out, god is NOWHERE to be %&#@!ng found! QED

DennisCDiehl said...

A few posts back an "anonymous" said, referring to Ron Weinland,

"For some reason I find this incredibly disturbing.'

He was referring to Ron's obvious choice of less than stellar men to work close to him so that they don't seem to catch on to what Ron was really doing.

I think that explains the major shift and seeing even more just how wrong the ministries of all these men are. I have been somewhat "depressed" and anxious all week and I believe it is tied to Ron's conviction and then seeing how he simply would not mention it in his next sermon. The man is either made of steel or in a denial so huge when it hits him the danger level will ratchet up a few more notches for all concerned.

I have spoken of this in many other places, but to the point. I know how sincere I was as pastor in the WCG congregations I was in. I believed what I saw in the Bible as relevant to today and the times we lived in. Sabbath and Holydays made more sense to me than Easter and Christmas etc. I had been Presbyterian so did not consider myself sheltered from the other perspectives of what the NT says and what the Gospel of it was.

The Weinland thing has reignited my anger at myself perhaps for being so stupid but just like a teen who goes off to fight in Vietnam only to find it was not for the reasons given him, being so gullible. I guess that's why goovernments draft kids and not experienced adults. You can be pumped up on "the truth", and fight or inspire and not see what the governments are really saying and doing.

My personal recovery (do you ever?) from my poor choices or naive ones has been difficult. It has been very costly and emotionally debilitating. I assume I did not invent that reaction. There are some, such as a Weinland or Pack who have ice in their veins and live in a whole different world of thinking and understanding (not a compliment)

At any rate, when anon said , "For some reason I find this incredibly disturbing." it struck a note with me and I appreciate that someone else could vocalize what seems to have been reignited in my regrets.

The mindset of a Weinland, Pack or Meredith is disturbing and I wish I had never heard of WCG, which of course is now impossible as it has been most of my story in life.

There must be some reason for all this distress and regret...

Mish-Mash said...

Hey Dennis,
I agree with you, I wish my parents never heard of WCG and thusly myself. I find now that I have lost all of my passion for any religion at all. I still want to believe in God, but I don't want to have anything to do with any church/synagogue. I've checked out other churces and they are all the same. Some of them try to do things for the community, which is nice, but they all want your money to do it. I know a church needs money to run, and I guess some people feel that they get their monies worth with thei emotions pumped up by the spiritual cheerleading. I doubt I will ever be emotionally fullfilled by the spiritual gymnastics of any preacher ever again. If God can still be found, I think He is on the outside of all these churches and sure isn't impressed by all the silliness.

Anonymous said...

Thanks Dennis,
I am glad to see some common sense in this thread. I believe your expierences have a higher purpose than anyone can understand.

Douglas Becker said...

DB I really feel sorry for you (honestly)

What asinine arrogance exhibiting such shallow contempt.

People addicted to Armstrongism are incapable of understanding narcissism, sociopaths and psychopaths because they choose not to. They have no capability in their own arrogance to see that they are pathetic losers who need to come out of their addiction. They believe that Revelation 18:4 applies to everyone else and not to them. I experienced that for awhile and so have most of those here.

The lack of understanding will persist until the recognition of just how deluded we've been in following huckster lying con men. Until then, nada -- wallowing in the shallow end of the gene pool.

And just so you know, it isn't mental illness: Read the "People of the Lie" -- some people are just plain evil.

As for the CoGWA, my one visit to them last year showed me that the top leadership is willing to stand in front of the congregation and flat out lie to them (no, the Waldensians never kept the Sabbath, Larry, but you knew that). The leaders of all the Armstrongist splinters are liars -- by definition, since Armstrongism is rooted solely in British Israelism, a lie of the first order of magnitutude.

So all you addicted in Armstrongism can feel fat, dumb and happy as being rich and increased in goods and needing nothing, even if your particular cult leader is a convicted felon. And the rest? They can feel validated in their arrogance that THEY are not part of a false church of God like the duped lower cattle of some other group.

Think again bucko.

As for feeling disturbed, one only need look at "The Lucifer Effect" by Dr. Phillip Zimbardo in the recounting of the erstwhile guard trying to win over the prisoner years after the experiment. Not much excuse for the abuse. The guard was not a bad person, was he? He wanted to know and pressed the prisoner he abused to say that he would have done the same thing if he were a guard. The answer: "I don't know". That wasn't the point. The point is that the guard did evil things.

If I had been allowed to go to Ambassador College and become a minister, would I have taught crap, act as a conduit for abuse and misuse of people and their money and then complain when I didn't get the promised severance package? I don't know. Maybe, just maybe, I would have gone postal once I learned the lies and the question would be moot as I waited for sentencing to prison for 2nd degree. Who can know? I can suspect.

I guess you just have to discern where the evil things come from.

Anonymous said...

On June 24, 2012 12:57 PM, "Mr. Nobody" wrote some very ignorant comments, of the stupid, 'horses-ass' variety.

"Mr. Nobody" wrote, "...those poor people in the local congregations were not intelligent enough to manage their own affairs."

Ah, wonderful!
Again, "Mr. Nobody" comes on with the old "Blame the victims!", cult apologist mentality.

"Mr. Nobody" wrote, "I can guarantee that those who are attracted to groups such as those have been made to feel they are important and comments such as you made will only drive the wedge deeper since there no evidence of concern for their feelings."

OH, NOES!!!
"Mr. Nobody" is here to tell us, once again,..... that criticizing Assmaster HWA is actually HURTING all those victims of HWA!!!

"Mr. Nobody" wrote,
"I am fully aware of the fact that people are still involved in those questionable fellowships, but I also recognize that there is a social need being filled that you cannot possibly understand."

"Mr. Nobody", Are you really so stupid that you think that anyone here doesn't understand that there's a social need being filled by the kooky splinters of HWA's kooky asinine church???

Anonymous said...

'"For some reason I find this incredibly disturbing.'

He was referring to Ron's obvious choice of less than stellar men to work close to him so that they don't seem to catch on to what Ron was really doing."'

Actually I was referring to those COG leaders who go to all this trouble to run a scam- they don't believe in god at all, and everything they do is carefully calculated to bring in money, including parroting HWA. It's all sales tactics.

Paul R.

Filipino UCG Scammers said...

I personally know the so-called 'pastor'/'elder' who left UCG Philippines for COGWA and took all the provincial funds including the paltry tithes of the poverty-stricken brethren which he systematically flew in to collect and then flew right back home monthly. These funds regularly resided in his personal bank account. When one deacon asked how the funds were being distributed, he said, 'I won't tell you.'

According to those who know locally, when the remaining UCG district Pastor went to this man's house to retrieve the UCG funds, he would not answer the door.

But he did manage to spend thousands of what he took on he and his wife to quickly fly to the US COGWA planning meeting.

His other habits included literally taking all the second tithes of the regional brethren when they first arrived at FOT, leaving them with nothing but lodging and mediocre meals, and putting the brethren up to asking visiting westerners for financial assistance which he also 'handled,' keeping the vast bulk of it in his personal family use.

He heard he still does this in COGWA year by year, and the regional director thinks nothing of it.

The 'ministers' in the Philippines have vast compounds and their brethren have less than nothing.

The 'Ambassador experience' continues...

UCG Filipino Scammers said...

Oh yes, I did hear that a sum of generous American donations from a FOT given for the brethren in Leyte wound up being used for the 'pastor's son-in-law's computer cafe.

Actually, I can't say much more because of the danger it might create...and I am dead serious about that.

Allen C. Dexter said...

I've long realized that we live in a basically "mafia world." Banking is a mafia. The US congress operates like a mafia. Big corporations are basically mafias. Etc. Etc.

The only diffference is the contrived legalities that make one mafia OK but the original organization is called "organized crime."

HWA was a don. All of his successors operate as dons, and I mean all. Some are smarter and a little more benevolent than others, but threaten them in any way, and all bets are off as to how far they could and might go. They are all ruthless in protecting the "family."

We really haven't progressed very far from our primate ancestors. If you want to be a "silver back," you have to be ruthless.

DennisCDiehl said...

Douglas said:

"If I had been allowed to go to Ambassador College and become a minister, would I have taught crap, act as a conduit for abuse and misuse of people and their money and then complain when I didn't get the promised severance package?"

I don't know what your problem is Doug, but I get tired of your veiled bullshit. I have read your wisecracks directed towards me as the one who defends my minister friends and such that you post on more obscure sites. You aren't all that able to cover your wisecracks in a general way.

You're personal and obvious repetative bitterness would suck anyone's brains out. If one is going to have an experience I'd rather process it as I have than as you do.

If you have something to direct towards me, want to know what may or may not have been in my heart or even how I feel about mistakes made out of either ignorance of my youth or thinking it was not a mistake, just ask me.

But keep your passive aggressive bullshit directed at me to yourself. You have your story and I have mine. Don't try to tell me about my story and I'll stay out of yours.

Anonymous said...

"If I had been allowed to go to Ambassador College and become a minister, would I have taught crap, act as a conduit for abuse and misuse of people and their money and then complain when I didn't get the promised severance package?"

Chill out Dennis. When I read Douglas' comment, your name didn't come to my mind at all. I know this might be hard for you to accept tonight, but life isn't always all about you.

Douglas makes a VERY valid point. I can think of a half-dozen or MORE ministers, right off the top of my head, who are guilty of everything he said.....right down to the part about complaining they didn't get a severance after willfully accepting for years a paycheck funded through means they knew were not 100% honorable. If you play in a mudpuddle you are bound to get dirty.

Douglas has every right to say what he has said. Is he sometimes over the top? Sure, but that's his way of dealing with the experience.

While I often enjoy reading what you write, and indeed you have written a lot, I find your defense of the ministry to be pollyannish at best. Were there a few honest and sincere ministers? Yes. However most of the ones I met definitely were NOT, and I met a lot of them. They were little psychopathic monsters with big egos. And even the honest and sincere ones helped propagate both an ideology and a culture that brought immense harm upon those who were unfortunate enough to buy into it.

Anonymous said...

Anon Said:
Were there a few honest and sincere ministers? Yes. However most of the ones I met definitely were NOT, and I met a lot of them.

One of the problems that will always exist in these internet “Gossip mills” is the people who set themselves up as judge and jury making decisions before all of the facts are in. Another problem is the use of “generalities” based on personal opinions. Experience has taught me that making judgments regarding the character of others is subject to the limited facts of the one judging. The teachings attributed to Jesus the Christ in Mat 7:1-2 NASB is; "Do not judge lest you be judged. For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you.” This would a good standard for responding in some of the “Gossip Mill” comments. Of course this is just a personal opinion.
Mr. Nobody

Anonymous said...

"One of the problems that will always exist in these internet “Gossip mills” is the people who set themselves up as judge and jury making decisions before all of the facts are in."

Anonymous wasn't judging, or making generalizations; he said that the majority of the ministers he personally met were psychopaths.

Paul R.

Andrew said...

There's always someone who criticizes someone for drawing a conclusion based upon years of experience, long afterwards, saying that they're "judging" others, and doing it "before all the facts are in." Really? And at what point are all the facts ever in? Never. Of course.

What you're really saying is, don't judge, don't discern, don't draw any conclusions, don't have any gut feelings about anything, and if you ever do, for heaven's sake, don't say it out loud. First of all, that's impossible, second, you don't particularly have a right to tell people what to think, or to forbid them from telling the truth. Who exactly are you setting yourself up as? A minister?

Finally, if you believe this is an internet "gossip mill" what are you doing here?

Assistant Deacon said...

One of the problems with things written by many COGers is the "tendency" they have to unnecessarily put things in "quotes," such as "Gossip mills" and "generalities."

"Rod Meredith" still does it all the time. HWA "started" it, and it drives me "bonkers" to this day.

Anonymous said...

Andrew said:
“Finally, if you believe this is an internet "gossip mill" what are you doing here?”

Lets be realistic how else would describe the information presented in this type of forum? What difference is there between this than all the chatter the goes on in local congregations of WCG?
Why do I look at these sites? What is presented is part of my life’s story. I will make a comment regarding who I am as a response to another caustic remark.
Mr. Nobody

DennisCDiehl said...

I apologize for getting cranky. The old pain body was hungry. That's not the authentic me. :)

Retired Prof said...

Good on you for apologizing, Dennis.

Obviously Douglas Becker is suffering more from the wounds of Armstrongism than most of us.

Douglas, take heart. Okay if I do a little parable?

When I was a little boy, I fell down with a glass bottle and cut my wrist. It severed an artery and a nerve. My mother stopped the bleeding with a pressure bandage, but the nerve injury left my wrist and the base of my thumb all tingly. After about fifty years, I could stand to wear a watch on that wrist.

The scar is still there. It will never go away. It is not troublesome, really; in fact, it has become part of my character. My wrist wouldn't look right without the scar.

Fred Smith said...

A wise man once pointed to the Moon but the idiot only looked at his finger...

In like manner:
HWA pointed to God and a large body of idiots only looked at his finger.

I looked past HWA and saw God.

I thank both HWA (if I could) and I thank God!

Assistant Deacon said...

Fred, men who go around pointing at the moon are rather suspect.

Wait -- good parable, then.