Thursday, August 1, 2013

Aaron Dean on Dave Pack: "I feel sorry for his people as he is demanding so much from them"




Forwarded to me tonight from a Yahoo group:
  Posted By: Aaron Dean
Dave Pack appears to be using scare tactics to gain a following and grab former WCG members.  He buys web search engine spots on every other church groups name, even Lifenets and facebook pages to do what I refer to as "sheep rustling" to all familiar with HWA.  This is something HWA would never do. He then puts them down, and then says he is the true church. UCG had to buy a spot to say "This is the official UCG web site" to keep people from thinking he is it, or getting wrong information.

I feel sorry for his people as he is demanding so much from them, like asking them to borrow against their homes (and if the husband won't do it, as community property he asks the wife to borrow her half - again going against a husband is something HWA would never demand except to obey God's law. Borrowing against the family home to give to the church is not one of God's laws.  Proper respect of your husband is) and then justifying it by saying they had all things in common in Acts.  Of course that is not what Acts is about.   We had a long email exchange where he was upset with answers I gave from questions mostly from his own people, saying I was lying, but ended up justifying everything I had listed in giving answers. Obviously he felt I was keeping people from him with his claims of being so close to HWA and other issues.

Gamaliel's advice will play out on him. He does not do as Mr. Armstrong did and I pray for people who are, or will be, hurt by him.  He has a grandiose plan and needs a lot more money to complete it and many are fooled by scare tactics.

20 comments:

Douglas Becker said...

Herbert Armstrong was pure evil.

There's no sense in Aaron Dean using him as a standard for anything.

Would it not have been more appropriate to use the example of Jesus Christ as in, "Jesus Christ would neither do what you are doing nor would he ever sanction you doing it"?

What a weak moron.

Byker Bob said...

I don't agree with Aaron's theology, but I believe that if anyone has a claim to having had a close relationship with HWA, he is it, and unlike in the case of Dave Pack, Aaron's is totally verifiable by myriad witneses.

I also believe that Aaron has given a good assessment of Dave's activities, his motivations, and the damage he is doing to his people. Dave is claiming biblical authority to extort unconcionable "offerings" from his followers, and they are scared to death not to comply.

I've long suspected that PCG and RCG are horrible, toxic churches, but it seems that just in the past several weeks evidence has come out indicating that conditions are reaching critical mass.

BB

Lone said...

Hmm interesting. I agree what Dean says in reference to Gamaliel's advice. We see such wisdom proving that the REAL "fruits" and "work" of HWA has been on the whole negative and not of God.
And I find it interesting that Dean keeps referring to what HWA would or wouldn't do. Of course I understand that it's more than likely due to DP's obsessive emulating of all things HWA. But as a Christian I find it disturbing since as a Christian shouldn't you point out what Christ would or wouldn't do in any given situation? Such perpetual emphasis on HWA demonstrates how he really was a cult figure and remains so in the minds of these cults to the present day.

Douglas Becker said...

Gamaliel's advice... Gamaliel's advice...

That sure worked with Islam, didn't it?

Anonymous said...

Please remember that United asked for additional funding from the members because of the cash shortfall from the COGWA split.

The poor hirelings had to sacrifice, but the tithe slaves had to make up the difference. Once a hireling, always a hireling.

Wonder if AD has a comment about that.

Head Usher said...

What they said. Here's yet another COG diatribe that mentions HWA, law, "proper respect," and self-justification, but no Jesus.

Anonymous said...

Dave Pack is a toxic human being to others and has already poisoned himself

Anonymous said...

I have proof that DCP is begging for more of the members going as far as selling home items for their monthly church fundraisers along with their talent shows and dances as to cover up the begging.

I agree that HWA was evil and also begged for his extravagance living, but it is true that he did not try to divide any assembly as Pack is doing. I think I heard him speaking against it.

Also this:
Michael H Venish 1 month ago
Thank you Theresa, many, many members of the Church of God have been duped by David Pack to sign over their assets to his church, so that he can build an idol to himself. God's judgment on men like Him is coming, however he is too evil to see it. A member of RCG wrote to me and said "now he is asking us for money to build a "car park!"
In one of his latest sermons "The Three Shepherds" he predicts the death of three leaders of Churches of God. The man is becoming beside hinself in his vanity.

If you are a member of RCG get out and look at other ministries doing so much more with no bondage. Armstrongism is bad.

I have been blessed with YRM they were never a part of WCG, but did descend from early twenties group Sacred name ministry and they keep all the laws and statutes of old testament (that is what Christ read in the Synagogues after all and He did not come to do away with any of it, except the animal sacrifice, the circumcision and he did not open a new assembly either. We are still Israel).

Joe Moeller said...

The offering made in UCG after the COGWA split was a completely voluntary one. It was not collected in church, and there was no undue pressure about it, nor any coercion of any kind.

Using HWA as a standard or authority on behavior is a mistake. HWA is not scripture, and his words or policies carry no ultimate authority. Sola Scriptura must always be the only standard for a believer.

However, Dean is correct, Flurry and Pack have gone BEYOND HWA , as bad as his administration was, in taking things to a new cultic "HIGH".

Most of the UCG is transitioning away from its cultic WCG past. It is a process, and it will take time, but I personally am very pleased with the progress and continue movement towards health, and try to take as proactive a role in advancing such for the organization myself.

Luv,
Joe Moeller
Cody, WY

Anonymous said...

"Please remember that United asked for additional funding from the members because of the cash shortfall from the COGWA split.
The poor hirelings had to sacrifice, but the tithe slaves had to make up the difference. Once a hireling, always a hireling.
Wonder if AD has a comment about that."


I doubt that Dean's "comment" would be anything other than the sound of crickets chirping.

A comment with integrity would be that the top dogs of the UCG were acknowledging the problem of the huge split by those dogs taking a substantial pay cut.

But, those top UCG dogs want the sheeple to take a cut, instead- the UCG's dogs want the sheeple to send in more cash.

After all, the UCG's top dogs (wolves) believe they are entitled to continue with the cash cow culture as they have been , and have their sheeple pay for them to do so.

Corky said...

What would HWA do?

Heh heh - don't you wish you could undo what HWA did do?

I wonder who ended up with HWA's 24k gold dinnerware...

Byker Bob said...

Back in 1844, the short story "Rappaccini's Daughter." was published. This was mandatory reading in every self-respecting high school and university literature class, so it is something with which everyone should be familiar.

Recently, it was revealed to me through my own imagination (ACOG ministers get their revelations in the same fashion) that this was not a short story at all. In fact it is an end times prophecy which directly speaks to the so-called Restored Church of God!

Giacomo Rappaccini, the scientist devoted to poisons, is the ante type to Davey Pack. Rappaccini's poisonous garden is a metaphor for the Restored Church of God, and his daughter is analogous to the RCG members. The tragedy at the end of the story typifies the many bad things which affect the lives of all those whom the RCG touches.

BB

Joe Moeller said...

Anon above:

You are incorrect about pay cuts for the ministry in UCG. They had mileage reimbursement cut, health care benefit cuts, do not receive 401k benefit, and have not had any kind of raise for many, many years. At 3% annual inflation per year , this is actually, a pay cut when you do not get cost of living adjustment.

Ministers in the UCG do not receive excessive pay, nor do the upper echelon ministers either. I know several window cleaners who make more per year than nearly all the ministry does.

It cannot be said that there is anyone living an excessive lifestyle in UCG because of their salary. All positions, including home office staff ones, are all underpaid relative to the marketplace for similar jobs. The UCG ministry is stretched thin and these guys really do bust their ass and are working long hours. Their compensation is on par with Baptist ministers, or SDA ministers.

HWA and WCG compensation in the past, is a whole different issue. This was financial abuse, and ridiculous. No justification whatsoever coming from me for what was a ludicrous self inurement and financial abuse of the body of Christ back in the "glory years"

Luv,
Joe Moeller
Cody, WY

Anonymous said...

Sumeone luvs the UCG, LOL!

Anonymous said...

Yeah, "luv" would be putting it mildly.

Joe has been using relativistic arguments to attempt to convince all of us here for some time now that UCG somehow doesn't count as an Armstrong cult anymore, and that it's somehow become a "good" "church" in absolute terms. Fat chance.

While he's right that UCG isn't as bad as Pack, Flurry, or Weinland, comparing UCG to those COGs is like comparing hemlock to cyanide, ricin, and batrachotoxin. Sure, hemlock may the least potent among them, but that still doesn't make it not a deadly poison. Just because there are relatively worse "churches" out there neither rectifies UCG's standing as a toxic cult, nor does it make UCG a "good" "church" in absolute terms. It makes it a toxic cult.

Caveat Emptor. Let the member beware.

Lone said...

Anon 8:27 said: "I agree that HWA was evil...but it is true that he did not try to divide any assembly as Pack is doing..."

But, isn't it true of the man that he DID divide congregations like the one he was in with COG (7th day) prior to him setting up WCG?? Even though the other COG ministers were trying to calm the situation and work with him going so far to respect his alternative beliefs on BI and Jewish feasts as long as he didn't teach about them as a COG (7th day) minister, but he refused. I think John Kiesz's testimony in this regard shows some of the real character of the man www.exitsupportnetwork/mike_ep/exam/kiesz.htm

Former PCG, RCG, & UCG said...

I'm sorry to say that most of the "ministers" in UCG are nothing but hirelings. They have so many heretical teachings that are easy to prove wrong if people would just read their Bibles. They may not have a leader like Pack or Flurry at the helm, but they have their own serious problems.

Former PCG, RCG, & UCG said...

I'm sorry to say that most of the "ministers" in UCG are nothing but hirelings. They have so many heretical teachings that are easy to prove wrong if people would just read their Bibles. They may not have a leader like Pack or Flurry at the helm, but they have their own serious problems.

Lurker said...

You're right, Joe. UCG folks are totally open minded, spiritually healthy and Christ-centered. They would never, for instance, call someone a heathen for rejecting Armstrongism.

Oh wait. They did. It was my parents and it happened three weeks ago. I guess the fact that they answered my letter at all is progress, right?

Byker Bob said...

Hey, Cork. One of my former classmates who was always noted for his appreciation for art and classical music quietly acquired some of that goldware, and I suspect that other similar individuals did likewise. I never travelled in such circles, always being the consummate rock and roll outlaw who appreciated abstract art, but I was told by a mutual friend that this individual was motivated by his appreciation for art rather than any kind of HWA idolatry. Had the goldware been Art Deco, or perhaps the creation of Salvador Dali, or Andy Warhol, I might have been interested myself. There is a chrome hood ornament from a '39 Pontiac on my mantle over the fireplace as I type this.

BB