Sunday, December 8, 2013

David C. Pack Struggling To Maintain Control of Restored Church of God



For the last year or so David C. Pack boldly boasted and bragged about how he was the ONLY Church of God splinter group accomplishing any work.  His narcissism got the better of him late this summer when he declared that the tens of thousands of COG members in the 700 some splinter groups would all come flocking to his church at the Feast of tabernacles.

Holes started to quickly appear in his prophecy. He regularly became the subject of much derision and mockery.  He attempted to crack down on info about his church  leaking out into the "world."  Families were broken up, wives spied upon, and children encouraged to spy on an their parents.

In spite of all of that, he dug his pit deeper and deeper as Summer turned into Fall.  When the hundreds of thousands of COG members and former members failed to come to Wadsworth along with their money, Dave went into hiding.  Which was probably a good thing.

Since the Feast Dave has been struggling with money issues, members leaving, and other tribulations that only TRUE Church of God leaders experience as martyrs for the "truth."

Here is a letter that was posted on Exit and Support about David C. Pack's current Restored Church of God issues.

RCG Experiencing Money Shortage and Loss of Membership:
December 8, 2013
There is evidently a money shortage in the Restored Church of God. The Sabbath after Thanksgiving was an ordered fast. The ministers have taken a pay cut. This is supposedly to fund new TV stations, but the land and buildings are said to be secure. Since the Feast, there has been a loss of membership. The new TV push is supposed to bring in new members, maybe because they haven't heard the false prophecy made by Dave Pack this year. --[name withheld]

40 comments:

Anonymous said...

Fantastic news! This is one COG group that I want to see fail!

Byker Bob said...

Just as the national economy is improving, this guy who has largely made his own problems, is unable to capitalize on it. He may be in for some lean times, but I don't believe this will spell the end of RCG. If a person read all of HWA's old member letters from past decades, one would believe that the "work" was always right on the verge of collapse. That is practically the business model for an ACOG. Granted, Global actually did go bust, but there were other factors involved in that.

We'd all like to see RCG evaporate, but I wouldn't be writing their epitaph just yet.

BB

DennisCDiehl said...

Fasting can't fix foolish...

Allen C. Dexter said...

Cheering news! Not good for the people directly affected by pay cuts and the like, but good overall as there is more waking up going on. However, sliding from one extreme cult to another is not progress. Happy are they who go and stay gone -- from all this insanity!

Anonymous said...

Dennis,

You wrote: "Fasting can't fix foolish..."

And God inspired Isaiah to tell those thinking fasting and prayer will magically do something this:

"Behold, ye fast for strife and debate, and to smite with the fist of wickedness: ye shall NOT fast as ye do this day, to MAKE YOUR VOICE TO BE HEARD on high." Isaiah 58:4

John

Former PCG/RCG said...

Don't underestimate the foolishness of those who are members of the COG.

Most of us have man-hopped from one group to another since the demise of the WCG.

We were brainwashed into searching for the ONE TRUE CHURCH, doing the one work....Those of us who have attempted to "wise-up" know that the COG is scattered, and God is working with individuals in various organizations.

Former PCG/RCG said...

Don't underestimate the foolishness of those who are members of the COG.

Most of us have man-hopped from one group to another since the demise of the WCG.

We were brainwashed into searching for the ONE TRUE CHURCH, doing the one work....Those of us who have attempted to "wise-up" know that the COG is scattered, and God is working with individuals in various organizations.

Head Usher said...

Even in good times media purchases for COGs is money down the toilet. It would take a marketing genius to sell staterooms on the Titanic while the lifeboats are being lowered. I hope Dave spares no expense when it comes to extra media purchases intended to invite new people to board a sinking ship.

If there were a god, this is what I would pray:

In that day of Dave Pack's fall, when the children of RCG said,
"Down with it, down unto the ground, even to the foundations!"
O thou daughter of Babylon, to thy ruin hast'ning on;
Happy he that rewardeth thee, just as thou unto us hast done.
Amen.

seekingtruth7 said...

When he calls for a fast, does he also demand that the members send in the money they saved on meals for the day?

Anonymous said...

Not surprising. It would be interesting to learn where the exiters went. Because the rationale was RCG was the only group standing up for the entire truth as it was on Jan '86. They were the only Church and the other groups were just "splinters" of the Laodicean condition.

Corky said...

I'm convinced that reading the bible makes people stupid. I read where Ray Comfort says that Cain married a "distant sister".

As strange as that is, Ray hasn't seen himself described in the bible yet. Maybe he hasn't read it as much as Dave Pack has...

I'll be happy when Dave is preaching the bible from the third trailer down from the office at the trailer park.

Former RCG said...

Some who leave RCG go with LCG, COGFF (Billingsley), COG in Wales, COGWA, and even UCG.

Many will stay home for a while, but then feel compelled to be with a group....Only to realize they have made another wrong turn.

Anonymous said...

Some who leave RCG go with LCG

There's one big difference between LCG and the other groups you mentioned. Practically nobody in LCG believes it is the "one true church" or even that it's a very good church at all. People know that LCG has all the family nepotistic corruption of Flurry, with much of the permissive pastoral administration of UCG. The very few who join LCG full of idealism are almost inevitably disappointed in short order, and they either hide their disappointment in hopes of advancing up the ranks, or they act on their disappointment and leave.

The result is that LCG is filled to the full with hypocrites who are busy putting on a show of unity, in order to gain whatever benefits they think they want from LCG, while privately recognizing that God has scattered His church and that when Meredith talks big talk about "the Work" he is mostly stroking his own ego.

Pack attracts idealists, chews them up, and expels them as cynics.

LCG attracts burnouts and cynics, who either learn to be sociopaths or quickly move on elsewhere.

Anonymous said...

Hey Cork: people have always been stupid because they get their information from the stupid box, believe it more or less uncritically, follow the crowd (peer pressure) like gutless lemmings, and smoke a lot of dope.

Anonymous said...

The advertising man is also leaving RCG. I noticed on his FB that he is going for an interview in CA to work in MN. So, a big cut right there. But, this man also attended AC and he might be joining another of Pack's church where he is needed and might be working on the side. mark.hall.56884761

EX RCG said...

I neglected to mention that at least two former RCG ministers have their own groups.

They have not exactly had a lot of success at drawing a lot of ex-RCG members, but maybe that is changing.

Anonymous said...

Down but not out.

I did some research and HWA's prophetic ministry took off in the 30's after he correctly predicted Mussolini would take Ethiopia.

Because of that people tuned in to him during the war years of the 1940's.

But after his prophecies dried up (21 failures I think) he had to get out of dodge to Pasadena and train a ministry under a dictatorial governmental system (I also read he delved deeply into communist thought).

The WCG began after scores of people came to his prophetic ministry after the turbulent decade of the 60's.

It has gone downhill ever since. However, if RCG can be the only group on television if problems in the world occur again----I think there will be another spike with people who are unfamiliar with the background.

I think that is now the focus on the leadership after the Haggai/Zechariah prophetic failures have poisoned RCG with splinter groups.

DennisCDiehl said...

You are being too generous with depicting RCG as the Titanic. More like a Duck Dynasty Boat going down in the bayou maybe

Anonymous said...

To see the full extent of his Madness you've gotta watch "Behind the Work" video and "Headquarters Building Update" slideshow

The PACK Titheslaves are the most beat-up and overworked in the history of Armstrongism . Garment workers in a Bangladesh Sweat-factory would have it easy by comparison.

It's amazing how much money he's beaten out of just a couple of thousand slaves!

DennisCDiehl said...

anon noted:

"Those of us who have attempted to "wise-up" know that the COG is scattered, and God is working with individuals in various organizations."

While I appreciate and understand the 'wise up' concept, I have never understood why the Omnipotent, Omniscient, Om-everything God gets stuck having to work with people in various "organizations" Can this God not speak up and clearly explain the program? Does it not say in Ephesians 4

" 4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

7 But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ."

While I personally believe for many reasons as others, Ephesians was not written by Paul in reality as it is too advanced for his time among other reasons, and was written by an established church that wanted compliance etc, there is no room in the NT for scattered workings in various abarrent organizations. At least in theory, they would all be ONE which of course is nuts, never happened in real life and is not possible where two or three are gathered together.

One seems always to have to be in charge his way, one is sentenced just to listen and do as instructed, and one gets to clean up.

The God/Jesus of the NT seems incapable of inspiring unity and one set of truths and never will be able to with humans as the middle men. There is too much profit for the middle men to make between the God concept and the masses.

People stay stuck to their seats, well unless they are gyrating in them, for many reasons and most are not related to the oneness of it all as spoken of by the author of Ephesians.

Verse 7 hints at the disclaimer that the author knows this is idealistic and probably not really how it works and wasn't working back then.

Anonymous said...

"I have never understood why the Omnipotent, Omniscient, Om-everything God gets stuck having to work with people in various "organizations" Can this God not speak up and clearly explain the program?"

The problem is not the Creator, but us weak and miserable beings unable to discern between His ways and our carnal ways and wants. The Son said we would no longer worship in that mountain or Temple, but in Spirit and in truth. He is not in "organizations", but in each individual that follows His ways. He speaks loud and clear, but are we willing to hear Him? Can you hear me now? One faith, one Spirit and we are the Temple of God above. That simple! That is why "flock" and "assembly" are used. NT uses "church" which was added by men creating a bias. Like Israel, we are still living in unbelief.

"I will smite the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock shall be scattered abroad" Mat 26:31. Everything is going according to plan..Small flock in the first resurrection. Blessings to all!

Silence said...

Dennis wrote:

"You are being too generous with depicting RCG as the Titanic. More like a Duck Dynasty Boat going down in the bayou maybe"

Best analogy.

Your friendly local Jew said...

Not supposed to fast on a feast day and Sabbath is a feast day.
Some prophet *rolls eyes*

Lake of Fire Church of God said...

Dennis wrote, "You are being too generous with depicting RCG as the Titanic. More like a Duck Dynasty Boat going down in the bayou maybe".

MY COMMENT – So true! I understand the analogy is only an allegory. However, the Titanic was the premier luxury liner billed to be “the unsinkable ship” that sank on it’s maiden voyage. RCG is a cheap off spring from the mother WCG whore and therefore has been around the block a couple of times. It is most definitely sinkable!

Richard

DennisCDiehl said...

Anonymous applied the apologetic to:

Anonymous said...
"I have never understood why the Omnipotent, Omniscient, Om-everything God gets stuck having to work with people in various "organizations" Can this God not speak up and clearly explain the program?"

The problem is not the Creator, but us weak and miserable beings unable to discern between His ways and our carnal ways and wants"

Oi..sounds like the same way the Weinlands and Packs of the COG's reason when it is their failure to communicate well or accuratly. It is the fault of the people. Ron Weinland waxes on for years about literal things to come and then when they flop accuses the folk of misunderstanding and saying it was "spiiiiiiritual". Pack , of course, is never wrong but blames the folk for anyway for wanting to wait it out somewhere else. The thing is still on and the problem is not with the Prophecy, it is with the "timing."

I would still maintain that the Deity is not good at communication, leaves too much up to middlemen to sort out for the customers and lets the salesmen run free making asses out of themselves and the product.

If we are the weak and miserable, carnal and stupid, then again, I'd put that on the Deity to accept the flawed product, not get offended if no one understands what He/She wants, and drop the threats of eternal whatever not good if you don't get it.

Anonymous said...

Dennis Said: I would still maintain that the Deity is not good at communication, leaves too much up to middlemen to sort out for the customers and lets the salesmen run free making asses out of themselves and the product.

If we are the weak and miserable, carnal and stupid, then again, I'd put that on the Deity to accept the flawed product, not get offended if no one understands what He/She wants, and drop the threats of eternal whatever not good if you don't get it.
December 10, 2013 at 7:08 PM

My comment: When I see comments like this it is quite obvious that the person feels their personal views are more accurate than those of other people who are attempting to live in a world where human awareness recognizes that human life is something special. There is always the idea that human reasoning will lead to a better understanding when in reality human reasoning is limited to personal experiences.
My personal experiences have supported the belief that life has a non-material influence that that determines the quality of the life we live. We can spend our life in critical condemnation of other people or we can spend it being an example of the joy of living.
That is if we can accept the fact that it is not our responsibility to be the non-material influence in another person’s life.
This is a major flaw that contributes to the inability of those in leadership roles to bring a harmonious unity in when bringing people together for the human fellowship we desire.
A. Boocher

DennisCDiehl said...

Al...I also believe life has non physical components. I am not being critical of others but I am critical of ideas from the past being perpetuated as if they were the answers to anything. They have been proven to be inadequate if not harmful. I don't criticise the person of a Dave Pack. I try to educate about the wrong headed ideas of a Dave Pack.

Human consciousness is a mystery. My hope is that it continues in some way and is not connected to obedience and compliance to some idea that must be accepted upon pain of eternal punishment or punishing.

I do realize that my contribution to this is probably reaching it's natural conclusion and moving on myself may be the most helpful to my own spirit and consciousness. I feel I may be communicating with the wrong folk these days on the wrong topics so will be winding it down for others to take up as they wish

Anonymous said...

"Actually, it probably is not very important to YOU to know whether my persecutors are right or wrong, when they call me dirty names, hurl epithets, resort to innuendo, impute sinister motives, strive to discredit, attempt character assassination. What is important to YOU is whether what you read in The PLAIN TRUTH really IS the truth — whether what you hear over The WORLD TOMORROW broadcast is true — not whether I, as an individual, am true or false."

From: "What is the Definition of a False Prophet?" The Plain Truth.. Personal from the Editor.. May, 1966..Got it from Herbert W Armstrong TV ARCHIVES FB page.

Now, Dennis, is it God above who is to blame for not catching the falsehood of these statements? We are constantly warned in the word to not follow another gospel or men which prophesy falsely, or rule with a fist, etc. One thing I find in common with these sects is that their church writings are placed above the word and no one has time to read the bible for themselves and do like the Bereans who "received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so".

Anonymous said...

"I feel I may be communicating with the wrong folk these days on the wrong topics...."

Dennis, did you make this remark because it seems as if the atheists among us are the ones most tenaciously buying into the ideas you present here, and making them their own?

Anonymous said...

You know, on Armstrongism-centered forums, I think the Berean analogy should fall under "Godwin's Law Adjusted For Armstrongism".

Head Usher said...

"Now, Dennis, is it God above who is to blame for not catching the falsehood of these statements?"

I don't think Yahweh's negligence is any more to blame for this kind of smoke that Herbert spent his life blowing than Spiderman's negligence is to blame for real life crimes in New York City you see on the news. How can an imaginary character in a fictional book be blamed for stuff that happens in real life? Does it matter that much whether you spend your time studying ancient mythology, church literature, or comic books? Of the three, I find church literature on the whole is the least entertaining of the three. Just my $0.02.

Former RCG said...

Funny analogy. One of the first sermons I heard with RCG was comparing the apostasy to the sinking titanic with the RCG being the Carpathia saving the survivors.

Britain W. Stevenson said...

Anonymous said...

Not surprising. It would be interesting to learn where the exiters went. Because the rationale was RCG was the only group standing up for the entire truth as it was on Jan '86. They were the only Church and the other groups were just "splinters" of the Laodicean condition.
December 9, 2013 at 9:21 AM -

Yes, I am curious also because Gerald Flurry >THAT PROPHET< always said that HIS CHURCH was the TRUE CHURCH because the PCG was the only ones that went to court to fight for Herbert W. Armstrong's books and booklets(in which they have now taken out pages and added to...namely his infamous, divinely inspired,but not completely divinely inspired), "Mystery of the Ages".

This same man, Gerald Flurry, whom accused the Worldwide Church of God and it's leader, Joseph Tkach of removing and adding to HWA's "Mystery of the Ages"
Yes, I use to believe the PCG was THE ONE AND ONLY TRUE CHURCH. But thanks to BRIAN DAVIS, a Regional Director in the Philadelphia Church of God, whom finally mentally abused and accused me so much and disfellowshipped me for the second time, (but the first didn't count as it was "secretly" done by BRIAN DAVIS so I was called up by the PCG attorney and told I was NOT disfellowshipped), and until I got on these sites and read some very interesting facts!

Anonymous said...

Head usher said: Does it matter that much whether you spend your time studying ancient mythology, church literature, or comic books? Of the three, I find church literature on the whole is the least entertaining of the three. Just my $0.02.

My comment: Religion is not about entertainment. It is about living a wholesome life that includes faith, hope, and selfless love. This selfless love is a genuine concern for human life and the development of a divine character that is indestructible and an important part of the ordered universe.
Religion is (or should be) about belief, confidence, and trust that our life has a purpose that is greater than this physical existence.
Whether the bible is fact or fiction it has played an important role in human development and will continue to serve this purpose for those who have the right motives.
A. Boocher

Retired Prof said...

Head Usher says: " How can an imaginary character in a fictional book be blamed for stuff that happens in real life?"

I get your point about placing blame for factual events on fictional characters, and it's a good one.

At the same time we need to remember that human beings pass on culture (advice from our forebears about how to play the hand nature has dealt us) by means of stories. The way characters in those stories behave teach the young how to conduct their lives--how to strive for success and deal with failure. These stories grade in currency from gossip to history to legend to myth, all of which are made up of mixtures of fact and fiction in varying proportions. Fiction includes not only stories told for entertainment that nobody except a child could believe (like Santa), but also lies and delusions that some adults accept for reality.

All of these stories help shape human behavior. If that behavior is harmful, blame for the harm is hard to assign unless it stems from a lie and the liar can be identified. But what about a deluded person who has hallucinations and tells apocalyptic stories that lead people to squander their goods? Is there an insanity defense?

Then in the case of legend and myth: Who was to blame for the Viking slave-taking raids in Ireland justified by Norse battle-legends and the Valhalla myth that framed them? Nobody can point to an individual liar or lunatic. From afar we believe that blaming Thor, Freya, Odin, and Loki for those battles and/or their outcomes is childish. Maybe not so for the people involved. They were emulating their peers and historical ancestors, who seemed, as depicted in the stories, to fit naturally into the whole system, from gossip to myth.

This same need to feel like an integral part of a cosmic system must animate zealots in all religions--people who get fooled by stories into harming themselves and others.


Head Usher said...

You're absolutely right Retired Prof.

The gods and heros of the past, such as Yahweh and Moses, Zeus and Herakles, or Odin and Beowulf are not just fiction, they are also aspirational. They are intended to communicate the morals, values and beliefs to which good citizens are to aspire. If a society's aspirational heros demonstrate the values of defending your people against marauding raiders and fostering agriculture, such as Scyld Scefing then this is what will be understood to constitute moral behavior. If a society's aspirational heros demonstrate the values of conquering foreign tribes and putting their men, women, and children to the sword, like Joshua—or General William Tecumseh Sherman—then this is what will be understood to constitute acceptable moral behavior instead. What has xianity taught us constitutes acceptable moral behavior?

In olden days they had stories that, besides being entertaining, were intended to communicate morals, values, and beliefs. In the 20th century, we gained new mediums we began to use to tell stories intended to do the same thing. We call them T.V. shows, movies, and comic books. "With great power comes great responsibility." Who are our comic book heroes if not exemplars of the cultural values to which good citizens of our modern society are to aspire?

If you think about, this is also the purpose of our political leaders. The U.S. President is elected more for his ability to play the part of a figure who can be seen to exemplify the values of our culture than for anything else. This is why it's a problem when the president is seen being shamed for adultery or acting like an embarrassing fool in front of the leaders of other nations. These are not the values to which we have aspired. When this happens, it forces us to question what we want to believe about our nation, our values, and ourselves. It could be argued that the visible failures of political leaders are more harmful to the health of a nation than almost anything else, because it teaches us all to fail.

Retired Prof said...

Amen, Head Usher.

Richard said...

It's not like RCG isn't trying to get new members. After coming to sites like this one, RCG banner ads seem to dominate other secular websites I visit. Is this a matter of brainwashed cookies?

One big question is left unanswered by this fasting day. Did the man who's probably most responsible for the decline in membership admit he was wrong - and repent?

You know, Mr. Pack...

Anonymous said...

I like what you say Dennis.

"Human consciousness is a mystery. My hope is that it continues in some way and is not connected to obedience and compliance to some idea that must be accepted upon pain of eternal punishment or punishing."

I think that abut sums up what I feel too.

I like a lot of what you say also, because you are still open to ideas.

Anonymous said...

DD’s comment: “Human consciousness is a mystery. My hope is that it continues in some way and is not connected to obedience and compliance to some idea that must be accepted upon pain of eternal punishment or punishing.”

AB Comment: I believe the acceptance of obedience and compliance is grossly misunderstood along with the pain of eternal punishment. It seems to me that human nature in lacking in the knowledge and wisdom that is associated with what can only be defined as the spiritual realm that is associated with God. It is the failure in ability to live in a harmonious unity with a perfect spiritual order that threatens our existence. This is the message that brings grace into the picture. There is nothing in the scriptures that indicates that the physical body (or anything physical) maintains an eternal existence.

I realize this is too big a subject to address in these blog entries, but I feel we need to recognize the possibility of the existence of spiritual influence.
A. Boocher