Wednesday, June 10, 2015

PCG: Ministers Are Here To Rule Over You. When They Make A Mistake You Need To Ask Why It Might Be Your Fault



The most perfect ministry that rules upon this earth today is in the Philadelphia Church of God. (Sorry Dave Pack, with all of your impotent claims lately your ministers have no credibility.)  The ministry of the PCG has been set upon this earth by God's direct hand and your salvation is dependent upon how you listen and follow what these men tell you.  If you dare to question or resist one of Gerald's ministers then you are resiting God!  The PCG even takes it down the ranks to the point you cannot question teachers, parents, and employers. In other words if you work at the PCG cult compound you CANNOT question ANYTHING!  Above all you cannot question WHY the PCG spends hundreds of thousands of dollars so that the PCG elite children can learn Irish dance - but that's another story.

The most telling comment below is that PCG members are not to question when "mistakes" are made.  Apparently by putting it in parenthesis this lets the PCG members know that the ministry is incapable of making mistakes and that it is most likely an issue of poor attitude of the  person complaining or questioning.  It is also apparent that when a person feels a mistake has been made that it is somehow THEIR fault.

Remember that God also uses His ministers to give counsel (Ephesians 4:11-16). The ministry is there to give guidelines, to encourage and exhort, but not to make decisions for you. God wants you to learn how to make decisions.

We are judged on how we incorporate God’s instructions into our lives. We must not resist Him. By judging those in authority—employers, ministers, parents, teachers—and then deciding that since they are not perfect we don’t have to look to them for guidance, we are denying God’s authority over us.

God judges us on how we treat those under our authority and how we submit to those in authority over us. We rule and are ruled.

How do we react when “mistakes” are made? Perhaps we need to ask God what He is trying to show us about ourselves.

28 comments:

Anonymous said...

PCG,RCG and COG ministers ,in general,are prooftextting, mix n mismatch, mean what it never meant for those it was never meant for, non critically thinking bots who think read n rant is what ministry is all about. Ignorant fellows mostly. Commanding respect is an insecure demand for what will always naturally and actually elude them

Anonymous said...

Walk away, folks. Then see how powerful Flurry and his lieutenants are. Seriously, just walk away.

They are more dependent on you than you are on them. Without you, they have nothing, and are nothing.

Walk away.

Black Ops Mikey said...

Then just why did Flurry refuse to submit the WCG administration AUTHORITY?

Anonymous said...


PCG: “We rule and are ruled.”


There is very real authority in the Devil's realm, and a chain of command to pass down the satanic abuse. Here is how it works:

Satan stirs up his demons. The demons stir up Gerald. Gerald sets up his petty tyrants. The petty tyrants abuse the PCG members. The crazy PCG members abuse the children. The helpless children abuse their pets--and alcohol, to try to cope.


In a May 2, 1974 letter to Worldwide Church of God members, Herbert W. Armstrong wrote (emphasis his):

“GOD'S authority is administered in LOVE--and actually as one SERVING those under his authority for THEIR GOOD and out of loving CONCERN for them. This is the way I try to use what authority God has delegated to me, and I try to teach those under me to use it in the same manner--as a servant, not one lording it over those under him--as JESUS gave us an example. Satan DESPISES government, except as HE himself harshly and in hate employs it.”

Anonymous said...


PCG: “How do we react when 'mistakes' are made? Perhaps we need to ask God what He is trying to show us about ourselves.”


This is all so very true. Everyone should heed these deep words of wisdom.

People should take personal responsibility when mistakes get made, especially serious mistakes like joining the PCG. People really do need to ask God what He is trying to show them about their spiritual condition that they would make such a colossal blunder and do such a shameful thing.

Byker Bob said...

Ah, yes. Once again, an exercise in looking in all the wrong places. Who told you that that the PCG ministers were actually "God's" ministers? Why, the PCG ministers did! And without the witness of God to support them! Has anyone been struck by lightning? Any Down's Syndrome kids been healed? Any prophecies been fulfilled? If you reply to a PCG minister, "Blow it out your ass, Mofo (consult with your African American friends for the meaning of the word "mofo") will the earth open up to swallow you alive? I think not! Therefore, the PCG ministers are imposters, and who cares what they say, or think, or threaten?

I sure am glad that I am not in the business of manufacturing authority! The problem with the PCG cretins is that, unlike people with real authority, they won't accept responsibility when they do verifiable damage. It is always somebody else's fault, or a bad attitude. Presumptuous people claim that they have the right to define good and bad attitudes, and who has them. They're goin' to the Lake of Fire!

BB

Anonymous said...

The former governor of Texas, Rick Perry, once concluded an on-air interview by exclaiming to his host, "Adios, mofo."

Anonymous said...

Oh, brother -- did 5:28 actually pick and choose a nicey-nice quote from Herbert Armstrong. About love, at that?

Not lording over. What a joke.

Anonymous said...

When in searching mode, it's all too often that people end up "looking in all the wrong places"!
Those places also include popular Christian TV networks like TBN and Daystar, which are full of preachers having the same disdain for people who commit the unpardonable sin of speaking criticism toward the stupid bullshit those preachers spout.
"Turning it around" to blame the one criticizing, is an old, sleazy trick.

Black Ops Mikey said...

Herbert Armstrong hated authority and couldn't wait to rebel against the leadership of the CoG7.

Anonymous said...


“PCG: Ministers Are Here To Rule Over You. When They Make A Mistake You Need To Ask Why It Might Be Your Fault.”


Ahhhh, the BLAME GAME. Fortunately for all those otherwise unfortunate PCG losers, they can all be “winners” at this game. There is plenty of blame to go around, and around, and around, in the PCG.

The PCG leader (Gerald Flurry, also known as “That Identity Thief”) edits, changes, deletes, misunderstands, warps, mangles, and perverts HWA's writings and teachings. This is Gerald's own fault for drinking too much and having a bad attitude, but he can blame the Devil for it since the demonic inspiration behind it is obvious. Unfortunately, Gerald tries to blame God for it, and claims that He was behind it all. This excuse won't fly, since Malachi's Message was actually delivered, spiritually speaking, by a mighty fallen angel, also known as the Devil. Physically speaking, it was delivered by a U.S. postman from Jules Dervaes, the original author of the material that Gerald plagiarized, which was originally called The Letter To Laodicea.

Abusive PCG leaders can say that they were just following Gerald's orders like any “good” Nazi would understand. They can claim that they were jerks because Gerald wanted them to be, and that their personalities were suited for it. And besides, the PCG members went along with it as if it were acceptable behavior, and thereby encouraged the PCG leaders to push the boundaries of all decent behavior to see how far they could go and how much they could get away with.

The PCG members read and listen to the lies and nonsense of the PCG leaders, and either do not know, or do not remember, or do not agree with, what HWA had written and taught in the past. The PCG members prefer to go along with all the so-called “NEW REVELATION” that Gerald says has “FLOODED” the PCG. While wallowing neck-deep in this sewage and trying not to drown in it, the PCG members can say that they were forbidden by the PCG leaders to read anything, or to listen to anyone, outside of the PCG.

PCG leaders forbid members to have anything to do with other people, including close family members, who were in the WCG but did not join the PCG. This is the fault of the PCG leaders. PCG members listen to and obey the PCG leaders in this matter. This is the fault of the PCG members.

The PCG leaders encourage PCG members to divorce and remarry--sometimes so the PCG leader can have someone else's wife. This is a great evil of the PCG leaders. Many PCG members fornicate, commit adultery, and want to divorce and remarry, and like to pretend that they are dumping their old mate to chase after a new one for the PCG and for God. This is a great evil of the PCG members.

PCG leaders live the life of luxury with all the tithe money and offerings and extorted cash that they receive. This is the fault of the PCG leaders, and it will be their legacy. The PCG members take God's holy tithe money and offerings and send it in to a lying false prophet to financially support his doctrinal changes and the petty tyrants that he sets up. This is the fault of the PCG members, and it will be their own unlucky legacy for all eternity.

In summary, the PCG leaders lie, do evil, and have wrong attitudes. They are simply bad.

In summary, the PCG members listen to lies, go along with evil, and actually support it all with real cash, and thereby show their own wrong attitudes. They are simply bad.

Obviously, the only logical conclusion is that the the PCG leaders and the PCG members are all in this together and are all guilty of mutually reinforcing each other's ignorance and wickedness.

Anonymous said...

"The ministry is there to give guidelines, to encourage and exhort, but not to make decisions for you. God wants you to learn how to make decisions."

"The ministry is there to give guidelines,..."

On who's authority? Your's? God's? the fruits of the tree applies here.

"...to encourage and exhort,"

more like to discourage and extort!

"...but not to make decisions for you."

likely presuppositions:
["because we don't like our sheeple to have choices"]
["WE alone WILL make all the decisions for you around HERE!"]
["WE are infallable!"]
["you MUST agree, that is the only choice you HAVE!"]
["if you happen to disagree, WE will DECIDE for YOU to leave!"]

"God wants you to learn how to make decisions."

I think that Jesus Christ decided to demonstrate to humanity that what is most important for us is to decide to learn to obey the laws of God that we can't break. Effectively deciding which are man's laws from God's laws will always bring forth a greater harvest of undeniable fruit.

"We rule and are ruled."

You're ruler is broken! Maybe you broke it when YOU(Fearaled Slurry) decided to measure the temple!

"How do we react when “mistakes” are made? Perhaps we need to ask God what He is trying to show us about ourselves."

Ask God for who is to blame!? Yeah...that will teach 'em! Just keep scapegoating you're way to divinity! This is stupid! God's universe demonstrated this to me. The best option is to learn how to go about getting it right. No blame games are necessary.

LOL...BB said "manufacturing authority"

manufacturing authority ≡ the story of man's religions

hit-and-run

Anonymous said...

"The ministry is there to give guidelines, to encourage and exhort, but not to make decisions for you. God wants you to learn how to make decisions."

"The ministry is there to give guidelines,..."

On who's authority? Your's? God's? the fruits of the tree applies here.

"...to encourage and exhort,"

more like to discourage and extort!

"...but not to make decisions for you."

likely presuppositions:
["because we don't like our sheeple to have choices"]
["WE alone WILL make all the decisions for you around HERE!"]
["WE are infallable!"]
["you MUST agree, that is the only choice you HAVE!"]
["if you happen to disagree, WE will DECIDE for YOU to leave!"]

"God wants you to learn how to make decisions."

I think that Jesus Christ decided to demonstrate to humanity that what is most important for us is to decide to learn to obey the laws of God that we can't break. Effectively deciding which are man's laws from God's laws will always bring forth a greater harvest of undeniable fruit.

"We rule and are ruled."

You're ruler is broken! Maybe you broke it when YOU(Fearaled Slurry) decided to measure the temple!

"How do we react when “mistakes” are made? Perhaps we need to ask God what He is trying to show us about ourselves."

Ask God for who is to blame!? Yeah...that will teach 'em! Just keep scapegoating you're way to divinity! This is stupid! God's universe demonstrated this to me. The best option is to learn how to go about getting it right. No blame games are necessary.

LOL...BB said "manufacturing authority"

manufacturing authority ≡ the story of man's religions

hit-and-run

Anonymous said...

To Anonymous 5:51,

I get what you're saying and agree for the most part, but what about the poor kids born into this cult who have NO reasoning/critical thinking skills as a result? It was not their choice to be brainwashed from birth. Some of them just know that they are miserable, life is horribly stressful and they suffer from extreme anxiety and depression, but don't know why. Some of them want to leave it all, but don't know how exactly to do that. As they start to question and rebel, the church puts its hand tighter and tighter around their necks through threats and intimidation until, sadly, some may see death as the only way out. Those kids are the ones who are the real victims of this sick, sick cult. It was NOT a choice for them.

Anonymous said...

P.S. to the comment above. Does anyone know how recently these comments were made by PCG and through what medium/source?

Anonymous said...

"The ministry is there to give guidelines, to encourage and exhort, but not to make decisions for you. God wants you to learn how to make decisions."

"The ministry is there to give guidelines,..."

On who's authority? Your's? God's? the fruits of the tree applies here.

"...to encourage and exhort,"

more like to discourage and extort!

"...but not to make decisions for you."

likely presuppositions:
["because we don't like our sheeple to have choices"]
["WE alone WILL make all the decisions for you around HERE!"]
["WE are infallable!"]
["you MUST agree, that is the only choice you HAVE!"]
["if you happen to disagree, WE will DECIDE for YOU to leave!"]

"God wants you to learn how to make decisions."

I think that Jesus Christ decided to demonstrate to humanity that what is most important for us is to decide to learn to obey the laws of God that we can't break. Effectively deciding which are man's laws from God's laws will always bring forth a greater harvest of undeniable fruit.

"We rule and are ruled."

You're ruler is broken! Maybe you broke it when YOU(Fearaled Slurry) decided to measure the temple!

"How do we react when “mistakes” are made? Perhaps we need to ask God what He is trying to show us about ourselves."

Ask God for who is to blame!? Yeah...that will teach 'em! Just keep scapegoating you're way to divinity! This is stupid! God's universe demonstrated this to me. The best option is to learn how to go about getting it right. No blame games are necessary.

LOL...BB said "manufacturing authority"

manufacturing authority ≡ the story of man's religions

hit-and-run

Ivan Chesnokov said...

Anon at 7:31

I was one such child. Born into the WCG and followed my dad in to the PCG much later. Once I came out of the church I finally had the chance to be on the outside looking in but even to this day it still hurts to have people come up to me and say "well those are decisions you made in the past so you're screwed out of (love, career, success, stable family life) because you decided to stay there. While yes, I feel that there is a certain amount of guilt that lies on the shoulders of those who are being fed that info - they can't help the fact that during the first 18 years of their lives they were fed nothing but that type of life and so for many of them - it's all they know, it's all they have and to leave that behind is a monumental undertaking that comes not only with disappointing your family in the church, but leaves you on the outside with very little support to lean on. Luckily I had quite a few close friends and a few family members who were supportive in my time of transition. I just wish more people understood just how difficult it is but all too often all I hear is hate, hate hate from former members of the COGs. If there is anything you should have held on to if you really did listen - it's that you should take compassion on others. What a shame.

Brian said...

There is a lot of anger from those who have left the COGs - and from some still attending the COGs. But, I would say that most of it is not directed towards the other members/attendees. Many have gone what you have gone through and are justifiably angry towards the COG leadership, but also people have regrets as well and this comes out as anger (at least for a while). Give it time - there are many on this blog who will listen and can help you also.

Anonymous said...

"If there is anything you should have held on to...."

There isn't. Move on, 12:35. You think nobody here understands "just how difficult it is?" For crying out loud, we all had our lives turned upside-down by the Armstrong movement and we all struggled with freeing ourselves from it. We've walked the path you're on and the best advice I can give is to stop wallowing in self-pity and move on. And rid yourself of the notion that former members like us deserve some of the blame. Leave that on the shoulders of the Armstrongs, the Flurrys, and all the other self-styled messengers of God who perpetrated an inherently abusive system.

Anonymous said...

Ivan Chesnokov at 12:35...

It's exactly the people like you that I was referring to when I posted my comment at 7:31. Do you recall what specific moment/event made you look at things differently enough to clear your head of the COG/PCG indoctrination? I'd think it would be nearly impossible to escape that mindset when your own parents are so deeply involved in the cult, and it would require a level of inner strength and critical thinking that, unfortunately, most raised in the cult from birth don't have. You're proof that it can happen obviously, and I very much admire your courage. We personally are experiencing something similar in our own family, but a family member who desperately wants out still struggles with the fears and threats placed on them by the "church" and its "leadership". I am just curious as to what helped you to see things clearly and make that transition, if you (or others) don't mind sharing.

Anonymous said...

To the commenter on 6/13/2015 at 4:38PM:

I am not Ivan, but like Ivan I was born into the cult. I really wanted to do the right thing as a kid; I loved my parents and I tried my best to live my life according to what I was taught because I trusted them completely. That was a huge mistake but as a kid it's impossible to know better. So I drank the Kool-Aid with vigor as a result.

I didn't leave until I was around 30 years old. Despite growing up under a father who prized ignorance and mocked critical thinking and education, I still had an inquisitive mind and occasionally worked up the courage to ask questions of the elders or ministers in my area. Most of the time they couldn't really answer them, and I think at some unconscious level I always knew things didn't always square with the official story.

My exit from the cult was years in the making. It's not like there was a single incident where the light bulb went on, but here are some of the key factors that enabled my exit:

- My job required me to move to a location that was far away from any local congregation. Thus I could not attend regularly, and by putting some distance between myself and the propaganda it allowed my critical thinking skills to be kindled. One of the realizations I had during this period was that if the bible was truly the inspired word of God then it could not possibly contain a single error; the presence of an error meant either God was not the all-powerful sky buddy I had been taught he was as a kid; or else it meant God really enjoyed sowing confusion and tormenting his creations. There are quite a few errors in the bible (just ask Dennis Diehl!! he's great at articulating them) and so it didn't take long for me to realize everything I had ever been taught was a load of garbage. Coming to accept that, however, took a long time.....

- I read a book by Robert Cialdini called "Influence: The Psychology of Persuasion". It's about social psychology, and he even references how cults use it to manipulate members. VERY good read.

- A young adolescent in my local congregation was molested by an elder. The church went to great lengths to cover it up, all the way to the top (this was UCG, specifically Richard Pinelli and others now part of COGWA). They even sent a letter to the victim threatening disfellowship if the victim went to law enforcement about the matter. I read the letter so I knew what was in it.

- A terrible natural disaster struck an international area I had once visited and many thousands of people died horrible, horrible deaths as a result. A few weeks later I heard a sermon by a UCG minister (again no longer with UCG but now with COGWA) about it where he said in so many words those people deserved to die because they were not part of the church. He was very clear about it. I just could not accept this position any longer. Especially after meeting some of the people who were probably killed in that disaster. The ones I knew were some of the most generous and loving people I'd ever known....contrasted with church leadership who seemed to revel in abusing the membership at every opportunity.

Everyone's experiences are unique. But these are some of mine. And like I said they are all entangled in thousands of other experiences that led me to where I'm at today. I hope this helps.

Ivan Chesnokov said...

Anon at 6:10, I'm glad that you think all people are the same and we'll all react the exact same way you do. Great way to showcase just how much more tolerant and understanding you've been since you've exited the COG group. You say that we should leave all the blame on other peoples shoulders when in any other instance in life you're left with the decisions you've made regardless of who swindled you or made you do them. Quit trying to absolve yourself of personal responsibility otherwise you run the risk of doing to yourself in "the world" what you accuse those in the COG's of doing right now. They may be in the group still but they are still human beings and many of them are still confused and fearful as you say. Point in case: Quit all the hate and angst - you might add a few years onto your short life.

to the Anon at: 4:38

To keep things rather brief the beginning of it was an instance probably somewhere about 6 or 7 years ago. I had gotten into a situation where i was found to be at fault for something that many of the ministers and HQ people have either been through, done and or were still doing. Needless to say I was put out for a time (suspended) and left to wait helplessly by the phone for the phone call to come back. However, during that time I sat at work contemplating exactly why the rules applied to me but not to the ministry or some (not all) of the HQ people. However, my thought process was cut short but not stunted as I came back into the church.

After a series of Jobs and experiences I slowly but surely picked up on more and more confusion and inconsistencies which, when I tried to bring them up were always answered with:

"well the church isn't perfect,"

"The Government of God is only administered perfectly from Jesus Christ up,"

"You have to remember that your obedience to the altar (read ministry) is a test and you're being judged on how you do that now, regardless of weather it's prefect or not."

Another big thing was about a year or two ago I remember the wife of David Privatski (a good friend of mine) had died, of course I heard about it through the grape vine via text before the church had told anyone (two weeks later for us field congregations. Now, when I first heard the news, I was of course saddened, no one wants to hear about someone else dying and on top of that I was told at the time that "she had just died in her sleep." Which, thinking about it at the time didn't make much sense but I went with it because I don't have a PhD and I also didn't have any information telling me otherwise.

Once the truth came out the whole deal with Janet's parents and the Anti-Ainxiety (or depression?) medication and all that I took a step back and it was like a wall of 10+ years of questions hit me like a freight train - if the church had told us a lie about that then what else would they lie about?

I struggled with this for many months until I finally called it quits due to that fact and numerous other extra-biblical things I never agreed with but didn't have sufficient biblical knowledge to counter argue properly. (extra biblical requirements for marriage, baptism, excommunication, interracial marriage,). I hope this answers your question Anon.

Things are truly coming to light now that I have been on the outside looking in but for the most part I just try and put it behind me.

Anonymous said...

To Anonymous 8:58 a.m. and Ivan Chesnokov:

Thank you for your responses to my question about what helped you to see things more clearly. Both responses are truly helpful as we try to process the mindsets of family and acquaintances in this "church". It sounds as if both of you retained some subconscious ability to think critically, and then had some "luck" added in which allowed you to reflect on your own without the constant supervision of the cult (i.e. a distant job and a suspension). As we deal with those under the mind control of PCG, I understand just how much courage it required for both of you to leave, especially if your parents remain in the church. I don't blame you one bit for feeling angry for what you had to endure, and the years of your life sacrificed to this cult. It's particularly tragic for those who didn't choose this life for themselves, but instead were born into it. I don't understand why no one has, as yet, filed a class-action lawsuit on behalf of the children/survivors. Even as you recover and move on, how do you ever get your childhood/teen years back? I wish both of you the very best in your recoveries and your lives.

Ivan Chesnokov said...

Anon @ 8:00pm

Thanks for your inquisitiveness. If anything. talking about it helps but to be completely honest (and I can't speak for others) I don't feel as if I "lost" anything from my childhood/teen/twenties by being in the church. The way I look at it is that it was just a different life, that being said I never experienced any of the far extremes that you sometimes hear about the PCG (wife dying from depression due to cutoff from family etc.). However, I did experience some "abuse" (i.e. just people trying to rule over you etc.) but I feel as if a majority of exiters on here who complain are just far to freaking sensitive! Just get over yourself - you got fooled so what? Move on with your life, what's worrying about it and obsessing over it going to accomplish in the long run?

I don't hold one bit of resentment towards anyone in that church for any reason. They're doing what they want and I'm doing what I want - our lives just don't coincide with one another and that'll have to be the end of it until someone's mind changes, and who am I to try and change their beliefs?

Recovery was quite simple, I told my family and they told the ministry and that was that. I was done - sure, some tears were had, some mild angst and anger from the frustration of the situation but the next day things were normal - I moved on and just kept taking things day by day.

Anyway, that's pretty much it. Sure some bad things happened but when don't bad things happen in this world? I don't want to spend the rest of my life hating on one group of people just because I spent part of my life believing something that turned out to be false.

Anonymous said...

To Anon @ 8:00PM,

I am Anon @ 8:58AM. Unlike Ivan, I lost the best years of my life. The cult -- and my parents -- robbed me of my childhood. I've never been able to adjust to life in the 'real' world, in spite of much counseling and therapy. 30 years of unspeakable abuse isn't just brushed aside in a few hours, and I suspect one day Ivan might see there was more harm done to him than he now realizes. Maybe. I don't know his story, so I suppose it's possible he could have never drunk the Kool-Aid and had wonderful parents who never bought into all the BS....but the odds of that are pretty slim. Still, it is possible I suppose.

And I should point out that by "harm" that includes many things beyond just abuse. It can be very subtle. So subtle the effects are not realized until after many years and much distance has passed to where a more objective view can be had.

It galls me to no end when I read the kind of heartless, narcissistic garbage uttered above by Ivan: "you people are just too sensitive, get over yourself, move on with you life, stop obsessing" blah blah blah. Walk a mile in my shoes and only then do you get permission to accuse me of these things. You Ivan no nothing about the depth of the scars in my psyche, nothing about the hurt and pain nor how that affected me. You say you have no significant lasting effects? Good for you, it means you are a psychopath and are incapable of feeling. Disagree, do you? You shouldn't, as I have just applied the same kind of logic that you use to judge all of us still suffering and stuck in our pain.

I've had tons of therapy and done so many things to better myself and try to move forward. There are few things I long for more than this. And while I can say I've made some progress the results don't go far enough. I am in my 40's, still single and unable to connect with women and have few friends. This is in spite of trying over and over and over again to assimilate into normal society. I have no contact with my family, and while that's not good, it is definitely better than letting those toxins into my life. I'm on a path that will end in suicide if there is not a radical shift in the next few years.

This is what growing up in Armstrongism does to a child.

Anonymous said...

Anon at 5:16 - Please cry some more. Also, I'm sure your experience is exactly like everyone else. Way to try and lambaste Ivan for being a psychopath because he had a different experience and then in the same paragraph make another logical fallacy right back at him. AMH You people... lol

Anonymous said...

To Anonymous at 2:13, Anonymous at 5:16, and Ivan,

Each of you are an example of how different individuals respond differently to the abuses suffered in the cult known as PCG. Those I know who have either exited or reluctantly remain in this group, one is very much like Ivan and seems to be moving on fairly well in spite of the trauma/anxieties suffered in this group (just very relieved and happy to be OUT!), another is experiencing much loneliness and anxiety, and the third is in a VERY bad way like 5:16. It seems fairly certain #3 will eventually exit, but by what means we do not know (walking away OR by our greatest fear - death/suicide).

Anonymous 5:16's feelings are very valid, and should be thoughtfully and compassionately considered. We don't know what his particular circumstances are, but I'm willing to bet he does not have the same family/friend/social network that Ivan and Anonymous 2:13 have. Personally, I'm amazed that Ivan was able to simply walk away, as that's not been our experience AT ALL!

Ivan, are you allowed continued contact with your family that remains in the church? If so, HOW???? Is your family "higher up" in the church hierarchy? I say this because you mention David Privratsky being a "good friend" and my limited understanding is that his family is pretty high up in the hierarchy. Do they make exceptions for the more "elite" families?

Anonymous 5:16 - Please hang in there!!! You've come so far. Please do NOT give up! To give up now is to give this cult the ultimate power over you and your life. Regardless of how you're feeling at any given moment, please remember there are good people and things in this world, and there ARE people who care about you. There's someone for everyone, and when you least expect it, someone special may walk into your life. You've already proven yourself to have greater strength, thinking skills, and initiative than most in this group (or in society as a whole), so don't sell yourself short. There are people out there who need EXACTLY what you have to offer. I'll definitely be cheering for you from the sidelines...

Ivan Chesnokov said...

Anon @ 7:43

To answer your qeustions:

>I'm amazed that Ivan was able to simply walk away

I wasn't, the ministry has tried to contact me on several occasions despite me telling them that I didn't want to have religious conversations with them as I am not "equipped" to debate them on the finer points of Armstrong. Much of my family has tried to do the same.

>Are you allowed continued contact with your family that remains in the church

For the time being, I have only limited contact with them but it's no where near what it was when I was still in the church. However, I feel as if that will come to an end some day, It's not all that strange to hear that some families can still keep in contact with their "laodicean" children, however, it is rare. Perhaps my case is just an odd one.

>Is your family "higher up" in the church hierarchy?

No. Everyone is regular lay members.

>David Privatski was a good friend.

Yes, he was/is. However, I don't see how his family was any higher up than anyone else. I believe this parents were Deacon/Deaconess? and volunteered regularly at PYC camps? I wasn't very familiar with his parents, just him and his brothers.

>Do they make exceptions for more 'elite" families.

I don't believe that is the case. It seems to be on a more case by case basis IMHO.