Dennis On: "What If...."

What If...?

What if it was ok if all the members or ministers in any COG didn't all speak the same thing?

What if gentleness, goodness, meekness, kindness and longsuffering was taught and displayed more than the unknowable meanderings of prophecy?

What if the minister had a servant personality instead of a Plantation Owner mentality?

What if "give as you are able," was all one ever heard from the Pastor or the Church Organization?

What if the lowest priority of a Church was a building program?

What if you could look your Pastor in the eye and tell him "that was the most far fetched view of scripture I have ever heard?"

What if the Pastor laughed at himself when he gave such sermons and was called out on it?

What if some of the membership really had a more balanced view of scripture than the minister?

What if it was not permitted for the Pastor to use the words "soon," "in our lifetime," "gun lap," or "soon coming...."  in any sermon?

What if a member could tell the Pastor he'd take his advice under advisement ?

What if you were able to make your own decisions about living your life even though the Pastor felt the decisions he makes in his life are more correct?

What if you messed up and had a Pastor who could freely admit "I messed up too," and had a good laugh together?

What if members gave up on the idea of becoming "perfect or mature as God is perfect," and just did the best they could under the circumstances?

What if it was ok to get to church or the Festivals as best you could without fear of being a slackard?

What if it didn't matter what Adam, Abraham, David, Solomon, the Prophets, or any real or imagined character in the Old Testament did or didn't do thousands of years ago?

What if a COG Organization did not have to spend so much energy and time trying to convince others they were the one true Church?

What if numbers and statistics didn't matter and were proof of nothing?

What if the leadership of Grace Community International apologized for reckless theological games and realized the damage and doubt brought to the minds of tens of thousands was more than the sweetness brought to the hundreds left over.

What if "I am sincerely sorry for the pain caused," and "I was wrong," were ok concepts for the minister to utter from time to time.

What if advertisers of religious perspectives did not have to scream in red print at you from the pages of the Journal?

What if any minister who declared himself a Prophet, Apostle, Watcher or Witness , out of the blue and without due process and proof was bounced out on his ass or asked to get some counseling?

What if a member could freely sit through a sermon and be ok with telling themselves this particular sermon is boring, crazy, weird or egocentric and probably not true as presented.

What if a member could utter the words, "Please don't tell me, us, my family, my wife, my kids what to do or how to be."

What if you had a minister that said, "I have come to see that things are not exactly as I always thought them to be..."

What if you had a minister who understood the background, context, origins, intent and story behind the scriptures?

What if science was not "falsely so called." 

What if all the COGs could say, "Let's face it, we have allowed some pretty weird personalities to tell us what to do and how to be and perhaps have not understood the Bible as it was intended to be understood."

What if everyone understood the Bible is not inerrant or perfect and you really can't be 100% God and 100% Man in any way anyone can imagine.

What if we all laughed at those who sound and act like they understand the above concept evolved over hundreds of years to plug the holes in other questions raised over time.

What if the COGs understood the concept you can never make a scripture mean what it never meant.

What if pious conviction with marginal information was not how a COG wanted to present it's views?

What if you didn't "send it in," or wouldn't "send it in" until or unless you were confident it would not be misused, wasted or stashed away by the Pastor?

What if everyone roared with laughter when the Pastor wanted to build another college or House for God knowing how big the Universe is?

What if the words, "I was wrong,"  "I didn't know,"  "I have no background in that,"  "I see the problem,"  "I know I tend to be...",  "I have made (and list them) mistakes in my life,"  "I am sorry...",  "I apologize",   "What do you think we should do..?",  "I don't know the answer to that..."

What if perfect love actually cast out fear and like Rodney King, we could all wonder why we can't get along?

What if all the COGs never again allowed ONE Minister, Pastor or Self Appointed human being to tell them how it all is as if they really knew?

What if...

1 Corinthians 13

 ¹ If I speak in the tongues^[a] of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. ² If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. ³ If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast,^[b] but do not have love, I gain nothing.

 ⁴ Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. ⁵ It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. ⁶ Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. ⁷ It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

 ⁸ Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. ⁹ For we know in part and we prophesy in part, ¹⁰ but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears. ¹¹ When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me. ¹² For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

 ¹³ And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.

...was really true in the COGs or on the planet?

Whew......now that's back on track!

 

Amen.....

Dennis C
DenniscDiehl@aol.com

Neville Stevens: Cyrus the Great Was A Demon....

I am sure you have all heard about Cyrus, the great Persian ruler.  There were actually three of them:
Cyrus 1, Cyrus the Great and Cyrus the Younger.  You can read about them here: Cyrus I, Cyrus the Great, and Cyrus the Younger.

So what do they have to do with Armstrongism?  Well, I thought you would never ask!  It seems the resident Australian couch potato called Neville Stevens, is blabbering on about Cyrus being the spirit ruler of the demonic realm.  Neville claims Cyrus is a demon who now has great regret that he rebelled with Lucifer several years ago.

All that can be said with certainty is that the Book of Malachi was written some time after Ezra and Nehemiah were commissioned by Cyrus, the ruler of the Medes and Persians, to rebuild the Temple in Jerusalem.  Cyrus actually came to power as a Mede.  The Medes lived in the region where Ninevah was their capital.  We know this region today as the homeland of the Kurds.  So the Kurds are the Medes of old.  (You’ll recall that the Prophet Jonah was sent to Ninevah with a message, and the people there repented).  But there is something else of interest relating to these people; these are also the descendants of the Assyrians – the vast empire which conquered the northern Ten Tribes of Israel.  Just to confirm that this ‘Cyrus’ did reign over the ancient Assyrians, Ezra refers to him as the KING OF ASSYRIA: Ezra 6:22 “For seven days they celebrated with joy the Feast of Unleavened Bread, because the LORD had filled them with joy by changing the attitude of the KING OF ASSYRIA, so that he assisted them in the work on the house of God, the God of Israel.”  We won’t get into a long discourse about the identity of this ‘Cyrus’, but he wasn’t human!  He is a spirit ruler of the demonic realm, and one of the few who has haunting regrets about joining Satan in his rebellion against God long ago – after which they were exiled to earth.  God actually calls Cyrus a servant, because he does his best to make amends for his behaviour in the past.  Nevertheless, accolades for Cyrus are not warranted other than to say he’s a cut above the rest of the spirit world and he is willing to cooperate with the Great God.

Neville Stevens is the spiritual deviate from Australia that had has small group of weirdo's try and take over the alt.w.w.wcg newsgroup several years ago.  These are mentally disturbed individuals who proudly boasted that they would be given swords at the return of Jesus so they could kill all who oppose Jesus and who oppose Neville.  You can still read their weird ramblings on the alt newsgroup.

Doesn't this guy with his dirty t-shirt just make you want to join up and follow him?  

All that's missing is his can of Foster's.

Some have popped up over the years claiming that the Nevillites were not violent people because Neville is a meek man.

Here is what Neville says will be happening when Jesus returns.  Notice what the  people he claims are the true followers of God will be doing:

There’s also a subtle warning in this for those who like to judge God’s servants as transgressors.  These self-righteous creatures have chosen to ignore the Law and the Prophets, but feel fully justified in accusing the servants of God of being transgressors.  Sin is the transgression of the Law, so it’s perfectly obvious who the real transgressors are!  The servants of God will be armed in accordance with Christ’s instructions, and they will take the Kingdom by force!  So now is a good time for Christians to modify their views, particularly the Churches of God to whom the Book of Revelation is addressed (Rev 22:16).  If they don’t, then others will be brought in, and they will be thrown out!  Then there will be much gnashing of teeth! 

Oddly enough, they’ve already started dying like flies, and their followers have the gall to send me notification of their deaths!  Why would I care?

 If you want to wallow in the filth on his web site you can find a lot of posts talking about his followers being agents of God with their swords as they kill all who oppose God .  Zion Ministry

Van Robison on "Men Who Would Be Pastors"

Men Who Would Be Pastors

That those who assume leadership in the world of churches stand in the place of God is more than ridiculous.  No doubt many enter into the pastor type of occupation with complete sincerity and without ulterior motives, but not all. In the story in the book of Acts about Ananias and Sapphira, we read that God supposedly struck this man and his wife down dead at the feet of Peter.  Christians reading a story like this would have a sense of FEAR that pastors and church leaders are not to be taken for granted.    I take the position that this story has two possibilities and neither have anything to do with God (God was not responsible,  nor was the Holy Spirit).  First, it could be pure fiction and it never happened.  Second, if these two people really did drop dead at the feet of Peter, then they were poisoned or killed by some human being with ulterior motives.

The Roman Catholic Church traces its origin (falsely) to Peter and is there some kind of connection with this account of a man and his wife dropping dead at the feet of "Pope Peter", to intentionally create FEAR of religious rulers in the minds of their subjects?  The "sin" of Ananias and Sapphira was that they supposedly lied about $money, which is a rather amazing reason to kill someone.  God did not even strike down dead on the spot those who  crucified Jesus Christ, which was exponentially a far greater issue than anything Ananias and Sapphira ever did.

For splinter group church goers who live in FEAR of their church leaders and rulers, here is a major contradiction.  In Luke 9:54-56, we read that two of the disciples of Jesus wanted to call down fire out of heaven and consume some folks they had issues with, to which Jesus rebuked them saying "The Son-of-Man is NOT come to destroy men's lives, BUT TO SAVE them."  So then if indeed God is the author of the deaths of Ananias and Sapphira, then the contradiction to what Jesus taught is not only confusing, but leaves one in grave doubt about the validity of such contradictions.  Aside from that how could Jesus teach "love your neighbor as you love yourself", "do unto others as you would have them do unto you", "love your enemies", "blessed are the peacemakers" and so forth and then defy His own teachings?  Were Ananias and Sapphira an exception to the rule?

We begin to see what is called "the Bible" unravel when it is examined much more closely than is ever done from the pulpits of churches.  In the Old Testament there is a story during the time of Moses and also attributed to God, that God supposedly opened up the ground and swallowed Korah, and others with him (including women and children), because Korah voiced opinions contrary to Moses.  This is yet another story designed to instill the FEAR of religious and secular rulers into the minds of common people.  If Jesus Christ was indeed God of the Old Testament as so many Bible apologists proclaim, how then is Jesus Christ the same yesterday, today and forever?  I am more than confident that there is a great deal in what is called the Bible, that has to do with causing common people to live in lifelong fear of the rulers of men.  Pastors love to quote passages such as "you dare not touch God's anointed", which causes people to fear.

Fear of rulers of men is as old as dirt.  We read in the Bible "fear not" and we read "fear God" and we read "there is no fear in perfect love."  So which is it?  As a parent do you want your children to live in fear of your being their parent, or would you prefer that they live knowing that you love them unconditionally?  In Romans 13 we read that "rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil and so obey the rulers" and that has to be pure fraud.  History is proof that rulers of men have slaughtered the good and the innocent by the millions, since the beginning of time.  Some rulers have even murdered their own family members in their insanity and murdered countless others in their insatiable lust for power, control and wealth.  The wars of rulers of men never cease to destroy not only those involved in military, but "collateral damage" (civilians, including women, children and babies).  The Old Testament is full of it and so is real life since the beginning of time and the human sacrifices in endless and perpetual wars never cease.  For Romans 13 to state that rulers are "not a terror" to good works, but to the evil, is nothing short of ludicrous.  Jesus Christ was nothing but GOOD and if the rulers of men are "not" a terror to good works, how then was Christ crucified?  Yet another major contradiction in the so called Bible and there are many.

Should members of the splinter groups of the "churches of God" ever study the Bible for themselves, without being told what it is suppose to mean from their leaders, who stand in pulpits, they would have a rude awakening. Pastors, elders, or whatever title men love to attach to their names, does not make them all knowing, all right, all infallible, all inerrant or to be feared.  And yet, it is because of certain verses in the Bible, that many who go to church live a life in fear of "pastors."  Strange indeed that we read that Jesus came to SET THE CAPTIVES FREE, and yet the church world has taken many captive.  In fact Jesus demolished man-made religion as defined in Matthew 23.  No church organization pays attention to such details.


Van Robison