Dennis On "What Prophet-eth a Man If He Can't Get It Right?"

What Prophet-eth a Man If He Can't Get It Right?

In my entire life, NOT ONE prophecy, which now in my mind is merely the human tendency to speculate about events as they perceive them, has "come true."   Aside from cracking the code, the Bible does not really speak of Britain, The United States, Russia or China.  Kings of the North, South, East and West are vague figures that have been named wrongly for thousands of years.  No prophet ever just came out and said "The King of the North is Larry the Great of Syria or the King of the South is Omar the Awesome of Ethiopia.  Well I am sure they actually have said that somewhere but they were wrong.

There have been hundreds if not thousands of the Two Witnesses of Revelation over the millennia, not to mention quite a few Elijah's, Elisha's and those in the spirit and power of John the Baptist.  EVERY Fundamentalist Christian Sect, Cult, Denomination and Church has spent it's years on earth reading the Bible as if it were a newspaper, living in the last days and among those who would be changed in a moment and in a twinkling of an eye at the last trump.  And they are all dead now and it is our turn.  I picture millions a hundred years from now in a world even worse than this present one printing booklets, loading ipads or downloading stuff into the chip in their heads about "the end times," and having it sent from yet another Prophet or Apostle who just knows what it's all about and what is about to happen.

Prophecy is merely speculation based on the factors one sees around them at the time they live and move and have their being.  Most other professions speculate, but religion  has to call it prophecy.  Just sounds better and more true and sure than speculation.

Before we take a look at some failed prophecies that all COGers think is not failed at all please understand that any prophecy one finds that they think is already over and done with is NOT DUAL.  Many things in the Bible are over and done with and have nothing to do with us or the times in which we find ourselves.  They are not DUAL.  Dual is what you make something when you want it to be still true and about to come around again for it's REAL fulfillment. It's simply not true.  Everything Isaiah, Jeremiah and Ezekiel said in their day was for their day.  The suffering Servant of Isaiah 53 was never Dual nor about Jesus.  It was about Isaiah who felt he was the one suffering to get the message out to Israel but that's another story.  No prophet looked hundreds and hundreds of years ahead .  If the people who were then facing what they were facing ever even thought that, they would turn away in droves because " well then, if this if for the way far ahead types, how does that help us?"-

Duality is what one does to drag into the present, ideas and stories that should have stayed rooted and grounded in the past where they were meant to be applied.

Bob Thiel, Awesome Prophet of the Still Going Church of God,  for example, is not a Prophet.  He is a speculator of religious outcomes as are all men and women who think they see themselves in the pages of the Bible.  What a slippery slope that is!  Ron Weinland nor his wife are the Two Witnesses.  Herbert Armstrong was not really the Elijah to come and GTA was not the guy dressed in filthy rags spoken of by the prophets. These were just religious folk of various and interesting persuasions.  Gerald Flurry is not really "that Prophet," and Dave Pack is not really an Apostle of the Overarching Church of the One True God/Christ.  It's all made up and it's all quite fantastic and silly.

So let's take a look at failed prophecies in the Bible and please try not to scream "It's Dual!"  or "That's out of context!"  If you are given to that, enjoy  

Isaiah 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
This is an example of Matthew making a scripture mean what it never meant which he did often. This is not a prophecy for 700 years into the future about Jesus. It was about not worrying about the Assyrians destroying them as it would be taken care of and that God was with them.  Immanuel means "God is with us,"  which is far different from Matthew's take of "God with us."  Jesus was never called Immanuel.
Isaiah 17:1 The burden of Damascus. Behold, Damascus is taken away from being a city, and it shall be a ruinous heap.
Damascus is still inhabited today with over a million people, and hardly a ruinous heap.
Isaiah 19:4-5 And the Egyptians will I give over into the hand of a cruel lord; and a fierce king shall rule over them, saith the Lord, the LORD of hosts. And the waters shall fail from the sea, and the river shall be wasted and dried up.
The river mentioned here is the Nile.  The Nile is still one of Egypt's greatest natural resource.
Isaiah 19:18 In that day shall five cities in the land of Egypt speak the language of Canaan, and swear to the LORD of hosts; one shall be called, The city of destruction.
The Canaanite language has never been spoken in Egypt, and is now an extinct.
Isaiah 52:1 Awake, awake; put on thy strength, O Zion; put on thy beautiful garments, O Jerusalem, the holy city: for henceforth there shall no more come into thee the uncircumcised and the unclean.
There are uncircumcised people living in Jerusalem even today
Ezekiel 29:10-11 Behold, therefore I am against thee, and against thy rivers, and I will make the land of Egypt utterly waste and desolate, from the tower of Syene even unto the border of Ethiopia.  No foot of man shall pass through it, nor foot of beast shall pass through it, neither shall it be inhabited forty years.

Never in its long history has Egypt ever been uninhabited for forty years.

Amos 9:15 And I will plant them upon their land, and they shall no more be pulled up out of their land which I have given them, saith the LORD thy God.

Many times, Jews have been pulled up out of their land.  The ownership of their land is still being fought for.

Jonah 3:4 And Jonah began to enter into the city a day's journey, and he cried, and said, Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown.
Nineveh was never overthrown.  Why?  Because God changed his mind in verse 3:10, despite what Malachi 3:6, Numbers 23:19 and Ezekiel 24:14 says about God never changing his mind.  You will find in the Bible that when God, "changes his mind," it is always because what was said to be wasn't and we needed an out.
Matthew 2:23 And he came and dwelt in a city called Nazareth: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophets, He shall be called a Nazarene.
Nowhere in the Old Testament is such a prophecy found, so how could such a one be fulfilled?
Matthew 12:5 Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless?
There is no passage in the Old Testament that can be attributed to what Jesus is saying here.
Matthew 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
Jesus states that all the signs marking the end of the world in Matthew 24 would be fulfilled before his generation ended.  That generation ended 2000 years ago, and the world has not come to an end, neither have all those signs been fulfilled. And "this generation" means THAT generation.
Matthew 26:64 Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

Jesus tells the high priest that he would see his second coming.  The high priest is long dead, and Jesus hasn't returned yet.
 
Resist the idea that these are dual.  "Ok, they didn't happen yet!" is not the way to go on these scriptures.  They are not about the times to come.  When Jesus told people they would see the Son of Man or that those who pierced him as in Revelation would see him he meant very soon and NOT after thousands of years when they were resurrected.

Add to this what every Church of God Bible reader should know, that being  the FACT that the Apostle Paul really did predict Jesus would come soon and shortly and didn't, which makes him not so good at predictions either.  

Paul really did say "WE who are ALIVE and remain,....."   Paul really did say "WE shall be changed" and "We shall not all die, but we all shall be changed,"   Anyone can see the progressive hope turned to disappointment in the early Church who never looked thousands of years into the future for one second.  Does Bob Thiel predict thousands of years into the future as if we'd care about such times long after we die?  No...of course not.  Prophecy is for the times the prophet lives in and to give hope, well founded or not, to those who hear him THEN not now!
Whoever and whenever Revelation was written, it was NOT for the distant future and it is not DUAL.  When the author wrote chapter 12: 1-4 about the woman clothed in the sun with the moon under her feet about to give birth and the dragon waiting to devour the child, go run an astronomy program of September 7, 69 AD where the constellation Virgo the Virgin, bathed in the days sunlight, the moon under her feet , legs open towards the horizon with the Serpent of the constellation Ophucus waiting and you'll see how "as above so below" works when prophets look up at the night sky of THEIR times.  It's what people do to explain their crazy world in which THEY live, not the one in which we live way in the future. 

Reading the Old and New Testaments as one would read a Newspaper is a BIG mistake.  The Prophets weren't really writing to us 2700 years ago and the Apostle Paul or John did not mean US.  The books weren't written yesterday to be downloaded today.  Most if not all these sincere men and women were wrong in what they thought they saw for themselves and had not intention of being dual about it.  And please don't think "Well, God didn't tell them it was Dual."   I know you will.

Living in the world and on this planet can be both wondrous and very dangerous.  It always has been.  We all think we would like to know "what's going to happen," both to the world and ourselves mostly.  World conditions at anytime in history can be seen as being at an end.  When millions and millions died of the Black Plague, would they not see "prophecy coming alive!"?  When Rome fell or the Pope showed up, would many not see that as "prophecy coming alive!"?  Of course.  Every Pope is the last Pope and all deviants from the norm  of politics and religion are antichrists.  


What does it hurt to filter one's world through "prophecy" right or wrong?  It hurts you because it often postpones facing reality. How many in the faith believe  that they won't actually die and then have to face the fact that they will die as have all before them?  All flesh is grass. No exceptions.
 It can make you give resources you don't have to people who don't use them well or make a living off you.  It can sucker you in to a career you wish you'd never had. It can blind one to the joy of life or make your kids wish they had other parents.  It can suck out your confidence and crush hope because it can take you down the wrong path or put you on the wrong train even if you think it is on the right track.

For me, and only me probably amongst the COG crowd, life is to be lived in the only time you actually have...now.  It is not easy and the prophecy bug bites deep into the human need to know even if they don't really know.  The past is only in our heads and tends to torment us endlessly if we don't let go of the baggage and the future simply is not here.  When it arrives it will just be another moment in the now to deal with and then a past memory. 

No prophecy uttered by any WCG/COG or Fundamentalist Christian in my life has ever been correct.  As far as I can tell, this holds true back through the last 3000 years.  100% of all Prophets so far have been 100% wrong 100% of the time. 

Over the hill, just around the corner, very soon, 3,5,10, 15 and certainly no more than 20, gun laps (have we not run out of bullets by now?), shortly and the hour now is simply aren't true to date .  

You know who is no prophet. You know who is no Witness nor is you know who.  You know who is not "that Prophet" and you know who is not really a gifted Apostle of the last days.   And like it or not, the scoffers spoken of in the Book of Peter were right.  They weren't evil.  Their motives weren't wicked.  They weren't being mean or faithless.  They just noticed and began to notice that what they had been told all their lives by the prophets and Apostles simply was not coming to pass.  They simply were ahead of their time and saying things that others were only thinking....and they were right. 

Life itself can be  a Non-Prophet experience if you have eyes to see how badly they predict the who, what, when, where , why and how of the unknowable future. 

Dennis
DenniscDiehl@aol.com 

Prophet Bob Thiel Calls LCG Evangelists Liars

Prophet Thiel is burning bridges faster that imaginable.  Instead of making clean break and keeping his mouth shut, he is going out of his way to discredit LCG evangelists in order to make himself look good in his potential new members sight.

Prophet Thiel cannot get over the fact that LCG does NOT consider him a prophet. It's turned into a "he said, he said" game now. LCG denies specifically calling him a prophet and Thiel claims they specifically called him one.

Prophet Thiel writes today about Doug Winnail, calling him and other LCG evangelists out as liars.  In spite of this LCG still continues to pussy foot around with prophet Thiel.  Prophet Thiel is already stealing members away from LCG, causing division and upset among the brethren, and speaking out against LCG leadership.

01/07/13 p.m. After responding to something he emailed me Friday, I just received an email from Dr. Winnail that contained various comments, some of which are other than accurate. But I felt that perhaps some may wish to see the following excerpts from the email he wrote to me today. Dr. Winnail wrote about himself and the other two LCG Charlotte-based evangelists:

When we made comments to you  that “you may be a prophet” (and that could include some point in the future) that was to be kind to you and also acknowledge that God can use anyone He chooses when he chooses to use them...If God chooses to use your or anyone else in the capacity of a prophet, that is His decision and that will become obvious...
Time will tell if your claims are valid…so let’s leave it at that.

Those who look at the "Bob Thiel prophetic chronology" on this page should be able to see that the statements to me were more than in general. How many others in LCG were told so often something to the effect that “God might consider you to be a prophet,” “You have an in-depth understanding {of prophetic matters}—you could be a prophet,” and “We all (the three Charlotte evangelists) think you might be a prophet.” Others may ask why the LCG Charlotte evangelists encouraged me to consider that God may consider me to be a prophet as this is not historically been a standard COG practice? And also what I really did (ask them to correct errors, etc.) that led to their letters of improper accusation?
Furthermore, it should be recalled that it was Dr. Meredith himself who first brought this prophet matter up with a telephone call to me in October 2008. It was not like I had ever asked him about that prior to this.

Notice also that Dr. Winnail wrote today that all the Charlotte evangelists were trying to basically encourage my prophetic writings and leanings. And by the time they made “We all (the three Charlotte evangelists) think you might be a prophet” comment in August/September 2012, they all knew about the anointing for a double-portion of God's Spirit by Gaylyn Bonjour on 12/15/2011 and also had a decent idea of how I viewed it.

Hopefully, for those who have believed the misinformation that the three Charlotte evangelists never thought that I might and/or may be a prophet will realize that in fact, they all did. And perhaps one day they will all do so again.

Dennis on Bob Thiel and the "No One Acknowledges My Awesomeness Church of God"

Bob Thiel says of himself...

"The Continuing Church of God is the "little flock" that traces its history from the Book of Acts, throughout the ages, and into the 21st Century. Would you like to learn more about the faithful remnant?"

Mercy, now there's a historical and theological mess up. Have you ever wondered if Jesus and the Gospel was so convincing and real, why Jesus can't seem to get anyone to stay on course or keep a group together "in Him"?

The COGs add to themselves by subtraction from others and multiply by division over and over. It's what a virus does.

In reality, if one dare read outside the box of COG booklets they have stashed, there never was one coherent "all believe the same thing" Church of God in history. From Ebionites to Essenes and from Notzri, Nazarenes, Paulines to Marcionites it's been a shoot out over who knows Jesus, that would be CHRIST, to COGers, the best.

The NT is rife with division between all concerned and what you see today you would have seen back then. NO ONE ever believes they belong to the wrong, false or pooped out Church. No newbie is going to claim anything but exact and direct ties to the Jesus of the Bible and the Church of the NT.
Delusional of course, but to be expected.

The only thing Bob can use to excuse his break from LCG and "Continuing Church of God," is that he disagreed with them on a few points here an there AND that they would not recognize his awesomeness. Neither of which is an excuse to actually start ones own church but one that is the most often chosen method and excuse.

Bob should call himself the "No One Acknowledges My Awesomeness Church of God." That's the bottom line. He has no business disrupting the faith of yet more people and causing more confusion in religion. Bob and those like him give people who are tired of the games men play MORE reasons than ever to walk away and want to be left alone.

Anyone who gives Bob their hard earned money to promote himself and demand others filter the world through his eyes as more special and insightful than others is a fool.

What we are seeing in Bob Thiel are long held personal beliefs he has had about himself that he was hoping, over time, LCG would accept. You don't come up with this self view overnight. I can assure you that had LCG welcomed him as "prophet" and brought him into the inner sanctum, ALL disagreements could be put aside and this would not have happened. The fact is that they did not take him in, did not believe his own press and did not want to please him at the expense of probably hundreds of others who would have bolted over taking him as he wanted to be perceived, i.e. as a prophet in the Church.

Well as I told one guy told me when working at a local hospital that he was a prophet and had come to heal the sick and raise the dead.."really??? Well, unfortunately St. Francis is a NON-PROPHET Hospital and you will have to go over to Memorial Hospital which is FOR PROPHET." lol He said, "Ok, I didn't know that...I'll go there." He obviously never got my joke but I never saw him again.

Dennis
DenniscDiehl@aol.com 

PS and Bob..I don't wish you well. You are perpetuating the very things that make thinking people and sincerely seeking people puke. To think much less suggest that you are more special and closer to your imaginary perfectly connected to Jesus (which no real Jesus ever thought of creating) church is simply insane.

No one had the guts to tell HWA he was arrogant and misguided along with a wasteful spender of other people's money. Those days are over. Ten Thousand people will be watching you're every move, statement and opinion about yourself and none of them will be wanting to join themselves to you.

You will be a study in delusionary, illusionary and theomanic thinking. We have Dave Pack, Gerald Flurry and Ron Weinland and now we have you.

"The eye that sees cannot see itself." I learned that several times the hard way and I suspect the Karma Fairy , who usually lives at my place, will be making a trip out West soon to play.

Those of the near couple thousand who visit this site each day and who probably belong to each and every kind of COG out there simply need to find the value in your own views and journey. Never allow others to filter your world for you through their eyes. You miss a lot of life doing that and shut yourself off to wonderful and amazing knowledge and realities you would otherwise miss by doing so.

I suppose those who act special and claim special insights and callings, who pretty quick make contributions tax deductible and endeavor to attract a following due to their awesomeness push my last button with religion.

and now it is 11:11 which always tells me I am on the right path lol...amen

Hope For Sinners If GTA Would Be Resurrected And Repents

The mind of Armstrongites still fascinates me.  How anyone can logically come up with these blatant absurdities is beyond me.  The fact that Armstrongites believe this bull is frightening!

Church Government was one of the main themes HWA taught. Even sending Gerald Waterhouse worldwide for many years to emphasize the importance of this doctrine. The importance is not just for now. It is a necessary lesson to learn for when we are powerful beings in the Kingdom of God. We won't be doing 'our thing'. We will be obedient to our husband Christ, through the chain of authority he establishes.

That is the lesson Laodiceans haven't yet learnt. That is probably why bringing back GTA to reconcile with his father to acknowledge his superior God-given authority for all the Church to see, is important.

All Philadelphia and repentant Laodiceans resurrected immortal are likely to be working under HWA who trained them,  in the Millennium.

Imagine the impact on the Church if they saw a resurrected HWA  measuring the groups there are now.
Imagine the hope for sinners if a resurrected GTA repented and did powerful things because of it.
The world remembers them. Their return would stop the world in its tracks and make everyone sit up and take notice, especially the church which has for the most part discarded the teachings of Herbert Armstrong and devalued his position.
He would be uniquely qualified to 'measure' as Zerubbabel is told to do.

All of this revolves around HWA being resurrected first.  Then GTA will be resurrected so he can reconcile with HWA.  Then the two will join forces and restore the Church of God to it's rightful state in the universe and then become the Two Witnesses.

Most of the world does not remember them, they have no idea who they even were! They have made no impact and most assuredly the hundreds of splinter groups today are not making any impact either!