Bob Thiel says of himself..."The Continuing Church of God is the "little flock" that traces its history from the Book of Acts, throughout the ages, and into the 21st Century. Would you like to learn more about the faithful remnant?"Mercy, now there's a historical and theological mess up. Have you ever wondered if Jesus and the Gospel was so convincing and real, why Jesus can't seem to get anyone to stay on course or keep a group together "in Him"?
The COGs add to themselves by subtraction from others and multiply by division over and over. It's what a virus does.
In reality, if one dare read outside the box of COG booklets they have stashed, there never was one coherent "all believe the same thing" Church of God in history. From Ebionites to Essenes and from Notzri, Nazarenes, Paulines to Marcionites it's been a shoot out over who knows Jesus, that would be CHRIST, to COGers, the best.
The NT is rife with division between all concerned and what you see today you would have seen back then. NO ONE ever believes they belong to the wrong, false or pooped out Church. No newbie is going to claim anything but exact and direct ties to the Jesus of the Bible and the Church of the NT.
Delusional of course, but to be expected.
The only thing Bob can use to excuse his break from LCG and "Continuing Church of God," is that he disagreed with them on a few points here an there AND that they would not recognize his awesomeness. Neither of which is an excuse to actually start ones own church but one that is the most often chosen method and excuse.
Bob should call himself the "No One Acknowledges My Awesomeness Church of God." That's the bottom line. He has no business disrupting the faith of yet more people and causing more confusion in religion. Bob and those like him give people who are tired of the games men play MORE reasons than ever to walk away and want to be left alone.
Anyone who gives Bob their hard earned money to promote himself and demand others filter the world through his eyes as more special and insightful than others is a fool.
What we are seeing in Bob Thiel are long held personal beliefs he has had about himself that he was hoping, over time, LCG would accept. You don't come up with this self view overnight. I can assure you that had LCG welcomed him as "prophet" and brought him into the inner sanctum, ALL disagreements could be put aside and this would not have happened. The fact is that they did not take him in, did not believe his own press and did not want to please him at the expense of probably hundreds of others who would have bolted over taking him as he wanted to be perceived, i.e. as a prophet in the Church.
Well as I told one guy told me when working at a local hospital that he was a prophet and had come to heal the sick and raise the dead.."really??? Well, unfortunately St. Francis is a NON-PROPHET Hospital and you will have to go over to Memorial Hospital which is FOR PROPHET." lol He said, "Ok, I didn't know that...I'll go there." He obviously never got my joke but I never saw him again.
Dennis
DenniscDiehl@aol.com
PS and Bob..I don't wish you well. You are perpetuating the very things that make thinking people and sincerely seeking people puke. To think much less suggest that you are more special and closer to your imaginary perfectly connected to Jesus (which no real Jesus ever thought of creating) church is simply insane.
No one had the guts to tell HWA he was arrogant and misguided along with a wasteful spender of other people's money. Those days are over. Ten Thousand people will be watching you're every move, statement and opinion about yourself and none of them will be wanting to join themselves to you.
You will be a study in delusionary, illusionary and theomanic thinking. We have Dave Pack, Gerald Flurry and Ron Weinland and now we have you.
"The eye that sees cannot see itself." I learned that several times the hard way and I suspect the Karma Fairy , who usually lives at my place, will be making a trip out West soon to play.
Those of the near couple thousand who visit this site each day and who probably belong to each and every kind of COG out there simply need to find the value in your own views and journey. Never allow others to filter your world for you through their eyes. You miss a lot of life doing that and shut yourself off to wonderful and amazing knowledge and realities you would otherwise miss by doing so.
I suppose those who act special and claim special insights and callings, who pretty quick make contributions tax deductible and endeavor to attract a following due to their awesomeness push my last button with religion.
and now it is 11:11 which always tells me I am on the right path lol...amen
16 comments:
pingpin Off Subject:
Could the editors @ theTrumpet.com be accused of "loading" their comment section? In today's (1/7)'Gun Sales' article, they have 3 questionable comments that are date/time posted from 2 days ago.
The Mormon church has prophets. I think there's room at LCG for one prophet.
It just might be the gimmick they need to stand out from the fierce competition.
Rod should have donned the Apostle mantle and then appointed BT as Prophet
Yes, it certainly looks like they're pre-loading comments on the PCG website.
It's 6:01 AM on the West Coast, just trying to keep them honest. lol
I've been a regular reader of Bob's blog for many many years. He actually has some good info there, if you know how to recognize it.
Unfortunately it's littered with pro LCG stuff and his own reasonings that can trip up the newbies.
I feel sorry for him actually. I suspect that he really does want to do what's right, he just doesn't quite know what "right" is.
I don't suggest anyone get involved with him, however. Some of the things he thinks are required for salvation are really out there in left field, not biblical at all. Like so many in the COGs, he appears to worship HWA, he just doesn't realize it.
Well, I suggest we try to understand what can lead a person to accept the patently false and unsubstantiated beliefs that Bob Thiel and many others actually accept as being true.
Maybe we can start with a basic familiarity with how our human brains develop beliefs in the first place. This book might be a good place to start:
http://www.amazon.com/Believing-Brain-Conspiracies---How-Construct-Reinforce/dp/1250008808/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1357590463&sr=1-1&keywords=the+believing+brain
Thiel just wrote:
"After responding to something he emailed me Friday, I just received an email from Dr. Winnail that contained various comments, some of which are other than accurate. But I felt that perhaps some may wish to see the following excerpts from the email he wrote to me today. Dr. Winnail wrote about himself and the other two LCG Charlotte-based evangelists:
"When we made comments to you that “you may be a prophet” (and that could include some point in the future) that was to be kind to you and also acknowledge that God can use anyone He chooses when he chooses to use them...If God chooses to use your or anyone else in the capacity of a prophet, that is His decision and that will become obvious... ""
So Winnail says they DID, and Meredith says they DIDN'T. ("and I can assure you that I have never thought you might be a prophet!"), and Winnail and Meredith both said they were trying to be "kind" and to "encourage" him. Well, LCG people, you did exactly that. Bob goes on to state how many others were encouraged how he was encouraged to think of himself as a prophet. I tend to believe Winnail, and Thiel, not so much Meredith, and I think it was LCG who got him to think he is a prophet, I think Thiel believed them, and when called on it, Thiel gets the boot slammed on his face. I fully believe it is LCG who got him into this mess with their "encouragement" and I fully believe they are the ones who have made him think he is a prophet. Not that Thiel is without excuse, he just seems to have "drank the kool-aid" and believed a lie because of who it came from.
Bob says also, just now:
"Those who look at the "Bob Thiel prophetic chronology" on this page should be able to see that the statements to me were more than in general. How many others in LCG were told so often something to the effect that “God might consider you to be a prophet,” “You have an in-depth understanding {of prophetic matters}—you could be a prophet,” and “We all (the three Charlotte evangelists) think you might be a prophet.” Others may ask why the LCG Charlotte evangelists encouraged me to consider that God may consider me to be a prophet as this is not historically been a standard COG practice? And also what I really did (ask them to correct errors, etc.) that led to their letters of improper accusation? "
Bob LISTENED to them. Bob trusted these people because of their high COG position and LISTENED to them. If Bob is correct here, and I have no reason to believe he isn't, Bob took EVERYTHING he says he was allegedly told here as absolute truth. Bob even says it was Meredith HIMSELF who brought the "prophet" matter up WAY back in 2008. According to Bob, they pumped him up and they induced him, apparently repeatedly, to think of himself as a prophet. I believe that Bob's saying in a nutshell, "Its all their fault, they told me I was, and they kept telling me and telling me, they're COG ministers, even the presiding evangelist, so I believed them and acted on it, and when I did, they stomp on my face and tell me to get out!"
Others have written on this board alleging that Meredith has a history of saying one thing and denying it later. Winnail says allegedly by Thiel that they DID say he may be a prophet. These men are what Thiel has viewed as actual ministers of God and I'm sure believes since they were ministers that they were speaking from Christ's mouth to him. That's what we all would have thought back in the day. Bob, for 4 years, developed this kind of pride and ego because the ministry encouraged and promoted it. I think that instead of promoting humility and teaching the truth, they promoted pride and fed him lies. Why? I don't think they wanted to offend him and thus lose tithes and offerings. Those ministers I believe said all those things and weren't serious about it, and they are JUST as responsible IMHO for EVERYTHING Theil is now. I think it appears to me that LCG has created a False Prophet, In my opinion - and, We're seeing the destruction Armstrongism does in full view all over again to those who put their faith in it.
I agree with the above. LCG isn't really thinking it would get out of hand so probably said things that could be encouraging to BT. Since BT seems to desperately want real prophet recognition, it spirals out of control eventually when a smile and pat on the back don't work anymore
The basic aspect of this is that COGdom is all a scam, a cruel joke. Thiel should find some other way to self-aggrandize, like maybe through holistic medicine, vitamins, or yoga. It's much less frustrating than trying to get recognized as a prophet.
Bad meltdown!
BB
Bad meltdown is an understatement.
I don't really believe this is anything genuinely new. In days past in the Worldwide Church of God, this sort of thing happened to those who aspired to become something of themselves within the church. Many would pass Spokesman's Club, Graduate Club, give sermonettes, lead songs, and be encouraged to think they were on their way to ordination as a Deacon or Elder, to eventually become a preaching elder. Somewhere along the lines, many of them were passed up by the young 22 year old college graduate who just got sent into the "Field" by Ministerial Services, and the other guy who was encouraged with hopeful gratifications was stopped cold in his tracks. If he questioned it, or objected, or called out the minister, he was stripped of all public service duties and sent back as a "Regular Member" ... or worse, suspended or disfellowshipped. The only difference here is the rank - THIS dude Thiel wanted to be acknowleded with a rank higher than *GULP* Evangelist. Of course, we all know this could NEVER happen in COG land. Thiel didn't get it. Now he does, and this is the result. COG history has NEVER had anyone with such "delusions of grandeur" EVER be accepted with a rank higher then the leader of the group, it hasn't happen, it will never happen. Let's see if in Thiel's Church someone declares he is an APOSTLE (higher then a mere prophet) and see how fast he is given the mark.
"In days past in the Worldwide Church of God, this sort of thing happened to those who aspired to become something of themselves within the church."
Indeed. It seems to be a common facet of any such mass movement. They appeal to "the weak and the base" and then give them some sign of greatness that is easy to aspire to (like manufacturing bullshit)--and then they're surprised to find some competition among the laity, and...well...competition must be dealt with in a decisive fashion.
I don't see this as a meltdown, but as a case of incredulity. Bob still can't come to grips with the fact that in the COG's, if you aren't a minister, you are nothing. Forget your education (however questionable), or your biblical knowledge (ditto), or the public awareness that you bring to the organization that you belong to (COGwriter), if you are not an ordained minister of a COG, then you are "little people." If you step out of your britches, you will be put in your place. Bob forgot his place, is all.
Paul Ray
has anyone ever investigated "Dr." Winnail's credintals?
what exactly is his doctorate in?
does it have anything to do with theology? or does he just like to be called "Dr." because it intimidates others?
could there be some Dr. jealousy going on here between the 2 Drs?
Dr. Winnail's doctorate is in Biology which as far as I can tell he has never used or worked much in. He taught it at AC but frankly, HS was more difficult and educational. It's legit, it is just not in theology.
While very sincere I think, I never found him to be a good teacher or speaker for that matter. For a man that is well eduated, it is fascinating how the mind of a PHd can get stuck at the level of Sunday School Theology and never look outside that box
Anonymous, just because someone is intelligent doesn't mean they can't fall for religious delusions. There is a guy - whose name I've forgotten - with a doctorate from Harvard who is a youth earth creationist, and the delusions don't get much deeper than that claptrap. An intelligent mind can often find or make up good reasons why he/she believes blatant lunacy quicker and with more articulateness than those of average mental power.
Dennis, you can't judge Bob by what you witnessed in the WCG with other people. Those other people were not Bob. It almost sounds like you're working for Meredith. LCG leaders lied to Bob. They told him he was a prophet then denied it just to make him look like a crackpot. Bob was not hallucinating and just "imagined" he was told those things. He was tricked. He was a threat and they got rid of him.
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