Get ready to feast your eyes on the worlds most incredible video by the worlds foremost authority on prophecy. Feast your eyes on the mind boggling graphics at the start and then feel you heart be warmed by "Greetings friends around the world!" Really original Bob, I must say. Be astounded by the magnificent props in the background. Marvel at the great oratory of the prophet. Be thrilled at his ability to hold a bible (closed) while he speaks. Be fascinated by the flailing arms and hands. We are humbled to just be in the presence of this prophetic gift from god!
68 comments:
He did that wrong.
It's "WELL" "greetings friend around the world".
Also, he forgot the head nod to the left and the eyebrow raise with "GREETINGS".
And, you must say "Around" like you are a Price Is Right Announcer.
Correctly spoken, you will sound like Art Gilmore did 60 years ago.
Bob's "greetingfriendsaroundtheworld" was the worst HWA ripoff ever.
However, he does look and sound just like Newhart. Bob Newhart. Here's a better clip to illustrate.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5TTA4f7Q3E
"Greetings friends around the world". SERIOUSLY?!!?!?!?!!
Hmmmmmmm, pretty weak and lame. These kinds of topics are on YOUTube by the thousands and done by financial experts that oversee billions and know what is going on.
I believe BT would have been wiser to stick with LCG and learn some humility or as Prince Charles finally had to remind HWA..."You need to know your place." Evidently HWA tried a bit too hard to get in with the Royals.
This is rather telling and I would not have thought BT to present such a non thunderous debut. I don't actually believe him to be capable of it and he is not engaging enough to attract people used to being shown good delivery with good material.
The "Greetings Friends Around the World.." was both creepy and weak, not to mention canned.
Underwhelming to say the least...
M.T.Delivery
oh my...even the comments on the video with 110 views have already been closed down....
Dave Pack has the same problem evidently
LCG has NOTHING to be concerned about...
It appears that the room is on a hill!
Thiel looks to be upright and straight, but the room has a downward slant.
The blinds are also slanting towards the right.
So which is it?? Is the room slanting or is it Thiel with a big leaning to the left?
Questions! I have so many questions!
Joe Moeller
Cody, WY
"LCG has NOTHING to be concerned about..."
I agree. Which is why they've taken a low profile on this guy and decided not to say anything publically. Bob may think he's a biblical prophet and pointed to by cath/byzantine prophecies and think he is all that and a HWA clone (HA!) but the more I see and hear this guy the more I see this is a classic case of "pay no attention to the man behind the curtain".
As far as him closing the comments of YouTube, that's completely expected. He does not allow comments on his COGWriter, and of course he won't on YouTube. I believe he's the kind of person that wants people "to listen and not argue, shut up I'm right" (not his words) without retort or argument. Even his greetings clone thing is boring. Ugh.
I found this 3-minute video on Narcissistic Personality Disorder rather interesting, especially when viewed in the light of Prophet Bob's recent behaviors and claims. Of course, such symptoms apply to many COG gurus:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFgoGtt7wu4
Gosh, I'm feelin' a little bad for picking on the new Prophet. This is terrible and really surprizes me BT would even begin with this as a topic and proof of his awesome Prophetic tendencies.
Perhaps he could promote the appropriate male, Mr. Mattson (HWA's Grand Son) to do the broadcast? Moses had his Aaron after all.
Well, solice can be taken , and I'm sure will be, in the fact that Paul had some PR problems as well.
1. His bodily presence is weak. Many of us admire men with a personal charisma that draws others to them. But this was not Paul's character. His "Charges Against Paul" continued from page 2 bodily presence was weak. His critics said he was "base" and "weak" when present (2 Cor. 10:1; 13:1).
2. He writes terrifying letters. In contrast to his bodily presence, Paul's letters were "bold" (2 Cor. 10:1). They charged that he "terrified" them with his letters, "for his letters, say they, are weighty and powerful; but his bodily presence is weak and his speech contemptible" (2 Cor. 10:10).
3. He is not a good speaker. Some found Paul's pulpit preaching lacking. They said that "his speech is contemptible" (2 Cor. 10:10) and that "he is rude in speech" (2 Cor. 13:6). Apparently, Paul's opponents were not impressed by his pulpit delivery and used that to undermine his work at Corinth.
4. Paul is beside himself. (Code for nuts) Some appear to have made the charge that Paul was so caught up in what he was doing that he was a "zealot" who had lost all balance that he is "beside" himself (2 Cor. 5:13).
However,
1 Corinthians 1:27
27 But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong.
so it will all work out no matter because it always has..well sorta..well...sometimes maybe....I dunno...maybe not
THIS is the guy who has recently claimed prophetic abilities?
Many analysts and economists routinely are saying the exact same thing as Prophet Bob is! So where's the originality or God-inspired revelations here?
Is this presentation included in his boast to do more in the first 30 days than any other COG splinter group?
Come on, Bobster, you've GOT to be kidding...right?!
Perhaps we've got a case of little man syndrome going on here. And I just love the original opening, spoken with such sincerity...NOT!
Actually, Bob, the U.S. became the world's largest debtor nation in the mid to late '80's, when Ronald Reagan was in office.
Please get your basic facts straight as you try to lead the rest of us to truth, rather than relying on that incredibly unreliable source knowledge and understanding, wiki.answers, which incorrectly says it was 1973.
This isn't doing anything for your credibility!
The "Around the World" thing was a novelty in Herbert's day because worldwide telecast transmissions or programs was a huge, huge deal being how new and awesome it was. These days, with YouTube, worldwide telecasts on skype, youtube, video chats of many manners and conferences make this feat..well, ordinary. So starting it off with that statement simply makes him look silly and vain.
Come on Bob, be original. You're not Herbert. You sounded like you were on the pot reading a newspaper.
"greetingsfriendsaroundtheworld..." Ok, got that out of the way.
Bob, you might want to try those little colorful sticky flags to mark the scriptures you intend to turn to so that you won't have to waste time and distract your listeners with those lame comments you make when you can't seem to turn to the right place.
I mean, we're talking basic Spokesman Club principles 101 here.
Does this make everyone here on this forum...
INAPPROPRIATE MALES?
Joe Moeller
Cody, WY
Does this make everyone here on this forum...
INAPPROPRIATE MALES?
Joe Moeller
Cody, WY
Anonymous wrote: "The "Around the World" thing was a novelty in Herbert's day because worldwide telecast transmissions or programs was a huge, huge deal being how new and awesome it was. These days, with YouTube, worldwide telecasts on skype, youtube, video chats of many manners and conferences make this feat..well, ordinary. So starting it off with that statement simply makes him look silly and vain."
That's very true, Anon, but COGer's aren't exactly the most innovative or creative bunch around, nor do they have much of a sense of historical context, so that's why they can't seem to come up with anything more fitting to the age of the Internet. For some reason they virtually ALL still seem to want to merely parrot HWA's radio broadcast approach, which was appropriate and attention-grabbing for it's day, but now painfully obsolete in the media-savvy 21st century.
I simply cannot think that if a cosmic Deity were to TRULY raise up someone in this age to be a prophet, that such a God could inspire a better and more effective schtick than those typically used by the HWA wanna-be crowd. Apparently of all the classes taught at Ambassador College through the decades, one that obviously wasn't included was one on media creativity.
"That's very true, Anon, but COGer's aren't exactly the most innovative or creative bunch around"
Very, very true indeed! These people seem totally stuck in the mid to late 1900s. Part of me believes they want to hold on to and miss dearly "the good old days" and are desperate to revive the glory days of the WCG. That just is not going to happen. These days, you need the "dramatic pause" and some suspense music. ;)
"THIS... IS IT. And the beginning.. of the Apocalypse..... the end of the world....is....." (pause for 45 second) "to be revealed after this." (audience groans) ;)
I have to credit Bob with absolutely telling the truth. He is not a very good speaker as he noted.
Now if we could just get the words, "Nor am I really a prophet," out of his mouth, we're good to go.
Thank you for the barf bag.
Norm
Ah Bob...
1. First, the "Don't believe me, believe what you read in your Bible" line is about as threadbare as it can possibly get - please attempt to think outside the microscopic box you occupy and try something just a little bit more original.
2. Second, and this is extremely foundational: in order for folks to believe what they read in their Bibles, you're FIRST going to have to do the hard work of clearly demonstrating that the Bible indeed IS the infallible, inerrant Word of God. Mere ASSERTIONS to that effect, no matter how confidently spoken, just won't cut it anymore in the more educated, sophisticated information age you've presumably been called to reach. You simply must face the fact that your new prophetic ministry is taking place in an increasingly more secular age, where many folks just won't gullibly accept that huge assumption without question, as the vast majority of people did in the 1930's when HWA started broadcasting.
3. Thirdly, and of MOST crucial importance, you're going to have to clearly demonstrate the existence of your invisible Deity that supposedly inspired that Bible in the first place, one of many gods proposed in the long history of man. You just can't carelessly and lazily ASSUME your listeners are going to give you a free pass on this one like they would have in more simpler, intellectually naive times.
So Bob, it seems you've got quite a bit of work cut out for you in your new endeavor. If you can sequentially follow those steps, especially 2 and 3, and do them convincingly without violating widely accepted standards of basic logic or demonstrable facts of science and history in your arguments and claims, I guarantee you will have audiences flocking to hear you. Why? Because it has NEVER been done in the entire history of Christianity, either the historical mainstream version of it, or your special COG variety.
We anxiously await your spirit-inspired response in the coming weeks and months ahead.
Thiel is a total disappointment and not worth my time.
While people like Bob Thiel and all the COGs try their best to work their way to salvation, Jesus already had forgiven all of our sins some 2,000 years ago. All one has to do is believe and accept the free gift of forgiveness to obtain salvation. Meanwhile, people like Bob will keep going round in circles with the old covenant while missing the real point of the one and only true Gospel and the new covenant. I wish they were honest and admit to following the old covenant, and stop pretending they follow the new one. One can’t follow both at the same time. One wonders if Satan has gained control of such people or they are just too dumb to understand the truth. I truly believe all Satan has to do to win over people to his side is to convince people they have to obey the Mosaic Law to be saved. The COGs are so confused, as badly as other lost groups, such as the Mormons and the JWs.
This is such a stupid video. 0 out of 10. He does not even understand what the US government is trying to do and he dares to ignorantly criticize them.
He pompously says, our leaders don't understand the true problems. He whines that the US government is devaluing the US currency by increased spending and this will somehow cause hyperinflation.
(I resent how he brings up random examples of hyperinflation and just pretends that these are relevant to the current US situation. He spends no time trying to understand what actually happened in those instances but just tosses these ideas in order to scare potential recruits into his COG personality cult. It demonstrates laziness in his discussion of this topic.)
No, Bob. You don't even understand what they are trying to do.
It is called Keynesianism, named after the economist John Maynard Keynes. He should do some research on that before mindlessly condemning what US leaders are trying to do.
That is what Keynesianism advocates: government cuts spending in times of growth, government increase spending during times of ecominic contraction.
What does this false prophet want the US government to do? Stop spending? As the Great Depression proved that is exactly the worst thing a government can do during a recession, because it insures that there is even less money flowing around in the economy, and therefore there will be less spending in the private sector, therefore more people will be laid off and will be unable to productively contribute to the economy and the economy will be harmed because the government did not spend more money during the crisis.
Some object, But this will cause even more debt. That problem should not be the main focus of attention until the economy recovers. Cutting government spending during an economic slow down (austerity) is exactly the worse thing you can do and only makes the recession worse. That is what Greece, Ireland, Spain and other Eurozone countries are doing now and this is why they are only throwing themselves deeper into financial turmoil.
The false prophet gives absolutely no indication that he even understands that this is what the US government is trying to do. His message in this video is a complete and total failure.
"His message in this video is a complete and total failure."
As is reverting to 1970s hymnsings.
I've seen enough melancholy sparrows and lonely pelicans, and owls in some old wasteland who is mourning and mute. The guards may maintain a useless watch, but that watch is more useful then Thiel's sermons.
Just wrote my thoughts regarding Bob Thiel's video.
http://livingarmstrongism.blogspot.com/2013/01/review-of-bob-thiels-second-youtube.html
Not only is Bob Thiel a bad speaker, he is also very confusing.
In his message it sounds like he think the US should put silver back in its coins and to not do so is somehow 'sinful'.
But I can't be sure that's what he is saying. He might just be demonstrating what certain Biblical verses he mentions are talking about.
But if that is the case I wonder why he bothers to mention that at all, because we don't use precious metals to back up our currency anymore. Because there was not enough gold, and too much money to back it with, so something else had to be used.
No evil turning away from the truth or anything, we just needed a new way to back money because the old way was not working.
Redfox is right. The "lecture" is confusing and disjointed and I can't imagine anyone being drawn to this rather weak presentation. One can see the old stereotypical WCG one liners and perspective. He must have had a laptop in front of him as he searched for notes and reminders. Very distracting as he looked at the laptop and not the intended audience. You have to convince the audience you are talking to them by looking at them.
Bob is zealous but not wise and he would do well to stick to writing and to NOT go into podcasting . He doesn't have the presense, flow or content for it and "Get close to Jesus and pray 'thy Kingdom come," is just not going to do it in this day and age of convince me.
It was painful, but I sat through it, and I must wholeheartedly concur with Redfox712.
BT obviously has no training in finance or economics, has no idea what it takes to successfully manage a national currency, has no clue what currency represents, and is simply rehashing decades-old mantras while taking scriptures out of context to back up this exhibition of his ignorance. As if the bible had anything useful to offer on the subject...
We all recognize that BT is not saying anything new. What he's got to say is as tired and cliched as any of the other ignorant, misguided, or just plain wrong talking points rehashed ad infinitum a thousand times over by HWA and all his other wannabe imitators. BT is a johnny-come-lately at the back of a very long line to get into a very long party that has already begun to wrap up. BT might as well be going into the buggy-whip business.
IMHO BT is saying that quantitative easing is "sin." In fact, just about everything anyone else ever does is sin, while guys like BT always hold themselves above reproach, even if it takes crock of lies and no end of backward rationalization to justify themselves.
Someone like BT, if put in a position where he had to actually make something function, something like a national currency, something important, something which other people relied upon, he would be totally inadequate to the task, because even if he were intellectually capable (which I'm not saying he is) he would be completely hamstrung by all the theoretical strictures which god-haunted people are always bound up in. He would be constantly trying to figure out which dial and levers were off limits because of this reading of this scripture or that reading of that scripture. He would never be able to make any decision in good conscience and would be totally unable to pay attention to whether a particular plan would offer a workable solution to a particular problem in practice.
Real life is messy, but the religious mind is incapacitated by the belief that such messyness is of the "devil" and so the brain quickly becomes overwhelmed and crippled by having to run too many scripts at once. People who attempt to bring religion into the realm where real life is lived are destined for extinction because they can't handle reality. The zealot is the one who gets eaten by the lion while researching his bible to figure out if it's a sin to run away when he's afraid. (He already knows it's a sin to kill, so shooting it is out.) When competent people go to work, they put their religion on the shelf next to Mother Goose. They instinctively know that the bible with it's neat little theories on how the ideal life ought to be lived has no place in the non-ideal, messy world.
BT doesn't. He's just another victim of the old lie that the bible contains every answer to every problem that a human being has ever or will ever run into, which is a huge load of cacamamie bullshit. Poor BT, he's a not-ready-for-prime-time-player isn't he? In every sense of the word.
Anonymous opined: "While people like Bob Thiel and all the COGs try their best to work their way to salvation, Jesus already had forgiven all of our sins some 2,000 years ago. All one has to do is believe and accept the free gift of forgiveness to obtain salvation."
Anon, there's a boatload of unexamined and careless assumptions in your statement. You just jump in with your "Jesus died for your sins" not realizing that the modern culture you address doesn't for the most part accept the underlying assumptions which you lazily accept as beyond question and indisputable. This was the exact point I tried to direct at Prophet Bob's comments - and why you fundie's are so ineffective in addressing a modern-day audience. This is the 21st century, not the Middle Ages. Why don't you try answering serious questions that are currently weighing on people's minds today, rather than throwing your tired old slogans and standard bromides at concerns that were relevant decades and even centuries ago?
Head Usher's above comments are right on:
* "simply rehashing decades-old mantras"
* "What he's got to say is as tired and cliched as any of the other ignorant, misguided, or just plain wrong talking points rehashed ad infinitum a thousand times over by HWA and all his other wannabe imitators."
* "People who attempt to bring religion into the realm where real life is lived are destined for extinction because they can't handle reality."
* "When competent people go to work, they put their religion on the shelf next to Mother Goose. They instinctively know that the bible with it's neat little theories on how the ideal life ought to be lived has no place in the non-ideal, messy world."
Head Usher, your foundational comments strike at the very core of concepts I've been thinking about lately, mainly having to do with religion's simplistic, black & white, neatly tied little easy Bronze Age answers to what we instinctively realize are far more nuanced and complex issues of modern life.
Also, I find it interesting when COG gurus (or wanna-be prophets like Thiel) address the nation's economic woes (like Scott Ashley of UCG recently did) as if they knew anything about financial management, considering their groups are in very serious economic decline, some on the edge of total collapse, and often the epitome of poor management and stewardship. Note Robin Webber's and Dennis Luker's recent letter pleading for special offerings to be sent to their home office.
Seriously, the most talented Hollywood comedy writers couldn't come up with the kind of zany situations brought to use daily by the utterly incompetent COG splinter groups.
No one on either side - Christian or Agnostic/Atheist will ever be able to prove their side of the story to the other because neither have lived each other's life. One of the Anon people asked:
"rather than throwing your tired old slogans and standard bromides at concerns that were relevant decades and even centuries ago?"
The assumption is that those bromides and concerns are not relevant now, and were relevant decades and centuries ago because of modern day culture. The reality is, such concerns are relevant to those people who are absolutely convinced that Christ, and Christianity, are real, as proven ONLY by personal experience. There will be absolutely no way that the Christian will ever be able to prove their personal experiences (i.e. answered prayer, direction of life, miracles, etc.) to those who have not experienced the experiences, simply because the other has not experienced them. These proofs will never be believed by the one the believer is trying to convince. Therefore, the one that states that the bromides and concerns are not relevant today will never believe the one who does, and the modern-culture advocate will probably accuse the one who does believe as being mentally ill. The one who is a believer will claim complete sanity, and will claim that the personal experiences are the direct result of belief in what the other calls antiquated beliefs. Neither can, or will, win an argument, it is a fued that cannot be won in this context, both believe differently, so in my opinion... believe what you believe, don't be afraid of what you believe, but leave it at that as nobody is going to win or convince the other, and trying to is futile
"Note Robin Webber's and Dennis Luker's recent letter pleading for special offerings to be sent to their home office."
Pleading for offerings in the COG's historically is NOT a sign of poor financial management. In fact, the management may be superb. In a lot of cases, it is trying to raise the bar on an already successful financial page. Many times Herbert Armstrong's income was doing superbly, yet there were always claims of "running out of money" and "CRISIS" and we need money "NOW" coming from HWA. What was given was never enough and what was high could always go higher. Historically, it's always been a case of "We NEVER have enough, we can grab more, no matter the cost." I'm not saying that's what Robin and Dennis are doing. I'm saying this is historically what the COG's, especially the old WCG, like to do - strain every cent no matter the cost, enough is never, ever enough.
Bob, congratulations on starting your new church. I hope you take a lot of Meredith's people with you, cut his work in half, and then stagnate like all other new COGs. This is a positive development. You are more honest and sincere than Rod and company. Thanks for exposing their lies, how they told you that you were a prophet and now how they deny it. You are more humble than Meredith who thinks he can become an apostle, on his own authority, whenever he says so. At least you based your presumed new office on what other people said about you, not your own opinion alone.
Regarding the latest HWA-spinoff wannabe 'prophet' Bob, someone wrote, I believe he's the kind of person that wants people "to listen and not argue, shut up I'm right"
Absolutely!
It's like a mental illness that they have, which makes them think their singly or doubly Holy Spirit inspired "understandings" put them above other people and beyond reproach.
Just how likely is it that Prophet Bob will consider that he may be wrong about stuff...when he refuses to even let other people comment?
Norm
Not likely.
No, announcements following UCG's request for the special offering pretty much admitted that money wasn't managed as it should have been after the UCG-COGWA split.
Anonymous wrote: "Neither can, or will, win an argument, it is a fued that cannot be won in this context, both believe differently, so in my opinion... believe what you believe, don't be afraid of what you believe, but leave it at that as nobody is going to win or convince the other, and trying to is futile."
But, Anon, surely you're not suggesting that just because someone believes this, that or the other belief, that therefore it's just as good as another belief that CAN be demonstrated and backed up with evidence.
The subjective beliefs of Christians as to healings and miracles, to cite just one example, have been studied (at healing spectacles, etc.) and shown to be false virtually all of the time upon closer investigation, by virtue of the fact that the folks claiming healing died the following week of the illness that supposedly was healed, or upon further medical investigation were found to not have a serious illness in the first place, etc. A lot of work has been done in this area, and it doesn't bode well for the groundless assertions of believers.
Personal subjective delusion does not constitute evidence. Now, if you want to belief it actually does, go ahead, live in your fantasy world, but don't expect the rest of us to buy it.
anon noted:
"Personal subjective delusion does not constitute evidence. Now, if you want to belief it actually does, go ahead, live in your fantasy world, but don't expect the rest of us to buy it."
Beliefs are just that..beliefs. They may resemble truth or they may just be beliefs mistaken at the moment for truth. I suppose no one separates their at the moment beliefs with not being true as well but of course, that can be a wrong assumption.
Bob Thiel believes he is a prophet. It is just that..his belief. From the perspective of others it simply is not true or truth but Bob will have to come that conclusion and then he will change his beliefs about himself. Of course, that has about as much a chance of happening as Ron Weinland giving up his self view or Dave Pack his.
Gerald Waterhouse believed HWA would live to the Second Coming blah blah...He told me he'd believe he was dead after three days and three nights!... lol..well, now they are both dead, I believe...lol. What a world.
A couple more presentations like the last and I believe Bob's followers will also believe he is not a prophet and a few more after that Bob might believe it himself.
What a world is exactly right.
Even in COG land the beliefs are as varied as the different colors in the rainbow. Because of the divergence of beliefs we have on Earth, right now, I think it's TWO Apostles (Pack And Flurry), Three Prophets (Weinland, Flurry and Theil), One who is the "leader of God's Church on Earth" (Meredith), one who claims to be "God's Church" many times in literature (United), and many small groups who believe for one reason or another seem to think in my opinion that they got it right and everyone else has it wrong. (E.W. King I believe is his name, among many many many others). All of these people offshoots of one who thought he had it right and everyone else is wrong (H. Armstrong) and he himself a lone ranger amongst many other fringe seventh day believers), and all of them lone rangers against all who claim to be Christian (Baptists, Protestants, Catholics, Lutherans, Methodists, JW's, Mormons, Pentecostals, etc, etc etc.) All of THIS just 1/3 of the world's major religions. (Christianity, Judaism, and Islam). And that in itself a small part of the broad spectrum of beliefs (Religious vs. Atheism/Agnostic/etc.)
For anyone to believe anyone has it EXACTLY right is proposterous and ridiculous. It's better to just concentrate on loving people central to your conviction then embracing the arrogance of self-righteousness and religious judgementalism. At the end, one way or the other, there are two options: There's a reality on the other side, or not.
This dude doesn't even have a globe on his desk. Ppphht. Amateur.
Paul Ray
Bob's rather underwhelming performance reminds me of a video William Dankenbring once had out on YouTube. Both couldn't be more amateurish...nor utterly unrelated and irrelevant to the present world we live in. As others have pointed out above, all these HWA wanna-be's seem to live in an insular world of their own. Really strange, yet not entirely unpredictable considering their spiritual roots.
The reason they recycle HWA's methods is because to them, the old glory days of the WWCG was like Camelot. It was the zenith of what in their minds constituted the best method to go about doing God's Work, and all the trappings that go with it. It is almost as if the trappings was the Work- the opulent lifestyle, the TV program, the rich halls and university buildings, etc.
It's not as if these guys couldn't come up with a better, more efficient, more modern approach to the Work- they could- there simply is no reason to when the Work itself is defined by the old days of WWCG. Keep in mind, the goal isn't to convert so much as perpetuate the machine.
This is why Bob will soon be shown as seated behind a desk, and will later start some sort of correspondence course (if he hasn't already) and "college."
Paul Ray
Psychologically speaking.
It is probably very painful for the ultra-strong Armstrong adherents to see everything they believed - and through tithes paid for - gone.
Where there once was so much. So many activities, grandiose buildings, HUGE conventions, Sabbath services of 200 to 600 per week, friends, and most of all, SECURITY - all of that is but a memory. Deep inside, they have a hope, since no one else has been able to do it, I am sure they hope that they are the ones God will use to "bring it all back".
The senses were overloaded for them back in the day, and nothing can compare for them to the "glory days". It is saddening for their Feasts to be so small, their congregations to be so tiny, their friends so few. For them, this is beyond painful to see. For those like Bob, I think, there is a hope that in their lifetime they can have back what they believe Tkach shattered.
"Where there once was so much"
I always felt sorry for GTA in the end, giving sermons in seedy motels followed by potluck. He pretended that he was, like a wandering knight in service to a dead king, doing his duty no matter that he know slept in haylofts when he once feasted at the king's table in the castle. He was like Khan in Star Trek.."I was a prince among men.."
I also think that these men believe that if they do resurrect the same conditions that existed in the heyday of the WWCG, they will be really doing God's Work- God will be pleased. If they have no college, no big HQ building, then the Work is substandard and lacking.
Anyone want to pitch in to buy Bob T a globe for his video office? A green bankers lamp? A podium with a faux ancient Bible? He needs to polish it up, and quick.
Paul Ray
Maybe those wanting to bring back the glory days of Armstrongism should hold "ghost dances" and try ti find a white buffalo.
All Thiel has to do is put a nice blue curtain and a tall plant like what was on World Tomorrow over his door. Then his studio would look professional. The Globe would be the icing on the cake.
--AND GREETINGS FRIENDS AROUND THE WARD--
>>For those like Bob, I think, there is a hope that in their lifetime they can have back what they believe Tkach shattered. <<
Absolutely right! Do they ever.
Meredith has this booklet called Fourteen Signs Announcing Christ's Return, and number eight is 'The Gospel of the Kingdom is Preached to All Nations'.
In it he essentially boasts that LCG will grow exponentially in impact and have its message heard all over the world.
"“Then they will deliver you up to tribulation” (v. 9). The coming Great Tribulation will affect the Church as well as national Israel. “And [they will] kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake.” This verse is quite significant because it says, in effect, that God’s true Church and Work will be known by all nations. People will not hate it unless they know about it, will they?...
This Gospel is good news, but it contains a warning. Every nation on earth, not just a few, will hear about this as a “witness,” not to convert them, but as a testimony of God’s future intentions."
What madness. As far as I can tell LCG has not significantly increased its impact upon the world at all since I read this booklet way back in 2000-1.
Yet another false prophecy brought to you by Roderick C. Meredith.
The obvious answer we all would take note of in verifying COG's claims would be simple - it would be a re-united Church of God among the remaining COG's. Where all of the COG's reunite as one as solidarity that they are "God's One True Church". IF that were to happen, which of course it will not, that would be a sign of some sort of mass unification. The reason why it certainly will not happen is a true reflection of the nature of COG's. Power, and Division. A massive reuniting of the COG's CANNOT happen, repeat CANNOT happen, because there is absolutely no spirit of unity within the COG's. Just competing, power hungry, self-serving organisms with a decades long history of splitting that then have the gall and audacity to run around each and all proclaiming how God is with them - when the only thing that is with them is everything God is NOT. Yet because of their blind deceit and belief, they all run around proclaiming they are God's One True Church without seeing the destruction that has been happening in the Churches of God in complete denial. Thiel's actions to start his own church is a delusion that he has what it takes to bring back Philadelphia Era to power. He does not. There was no Philadelphia Era when Worldwide was in power, and there isn't now in the few in Thiel's virtual congregation. The reality is something they can't see, and I honestly don't think they could handle the truth if they wanted to. I think it would be too much to accept and the truth is way easier to ignore and the traditions too comfortable to separate from. Sadly, they've accepted division as normal, and everything that is not of God as God's. As the movie says "They cannot handle the truth". So sad.
Anonymous observed: "The reality is something they can't see, and I honestly don't think they could handle the truth if they wanted to. I think it would be too much to accept and the truth is way easier to ignore and the traditions too comfortable to separate from."
I think much of the reality-denying dynamic so prevalent in the COG's has to do with their mental habit which involves the highly selective use of evidence, which social scientists and psychologists refer to as confirmation bias. The COG (in all it's many splinters) claims adherence to a presumably God-given ideology which asserts that it allows members to understand reality better than other system. So with this as an absolute anchor for them, when overwhelming facts, evidence and events come along that counters their many claims, they simply sweep aside such counter evidence, and act as if it doesn't exist, or that it's a "tool of the Satan", etc., etc. They've been taught to do this for so long that now they really can't properly distinguish between fact and fable, between reality and wishful thinking. I've really come to see something about COG religion that I didn't perceive when I was deeply entrenched in it: it's a religion based on slogans - and there seems to be a slogan they can recite for each and every possible situation they encounter. But asserting slogans repeatedly until one is blue in the face doesn't make them true, nor does it alter the nature of objective reality with which all humans have to deal with. The result: as organizations they are growing weaker and weaker each year, despite their leaders empty boasts that "The Work is growing phenomenally and thundering forth the Gospel message as never before..." In fact I've noted that the louder and more frequent they issue boasts to the contrary, the weaker and less effective they become.
It just seems to me that the most effective thing they could individually and collectively do is humbly acknowledge and openly admit - as many here who comment on this website have had to do - that we all were, for various reasons probably unique to each one of us, bamboozled by the sensationalistic claims of HWA and that the vast majority of those claims through time have proven to have been completely wrong.
But I'm afraid for many it's just far easier to continue down the dead-end path of denying factual realities and keep stubbornly adhering to wishful thinking instead.
“Most men would kill the truth if truth would kill their religion.” Lemuel K. Washburn
I would really like to know what is going in 'the mind of Mrs. Thiel - is she a true believer in her husband's recent self-proclaimed ascent to prophethood, or deep down is she wondering "Oh dear, Bobby is really losing it this time around!"
Speculation - she is indeed a typical COG wife, Bob is probably the complete Head of Household - and I doubt, if COG history may be correct, and of course I don't know for sure, if she has much of a say on anything. The COG's are the one religious group that still is archaic with the role of women in life.
So with that, I'd take a guess that her mind is, well, probably thinking that God is leading Bob and she is quietly observing and probably just keeping her feelings to herself while quietly supporting her husband.
correction: IF she is indeed a typical COG wife.
Speculation - she is indeed a typical COG wife, Bob is probably the complete Head of Household - and I doubt, if COG history may be correct, and of course I don't know for sure, if she has much of a say on anything.
I wouldn't be so sure. There are many top ACOG leaders who are or were pretty much run by their wives.
Even HWA, it is said, was largely doing Loma's bidding for most of her married life. Notice how WCG changed so drastically after her death, when her influence wasn't running HWA any longer.
Look at Denny Luker; his wife is clearly the pants-wearer in that union.
PCG exiters consistently report that Barbara Flurry was the brains of the Flurry union, as well as its heart. She likely fueled her husband's crazier impulses, as in COGland the way for a woman to become important is to have an important husband.
This is also true in GCG/LCG, where Eve McNair could get whatever she wanted from her husband Raymond. Even now in LCG, it seems that the top LCG evangelists are basically run by their wives.
So, don't underestimate the power of a COG woman who wants to become important through the agency of her COG husband. I would say it's highly likely that Mrs. Thiel is her husband's Number One fan, groupie, enabler and encourager.
Yes, that's why I said IF she was a typical COG wife. :)
"This is also true in GCG/LCG, where Eve McNair could get whatever she wanted from her husband Raymond."
I remember reading somewhere that Eve allegedly gloated she was "an EVANGELISTS wife" as if she was married to a high ranking politician or something. Clearly there was seemingly a lot of pride among COG high ranking wives and how fortunate they were to be in the position they were in. I'd LOVE to hear what their conversations were about over lunch sometimes LOL. Or maybe not.
Thiel's wife Joyce is a very shy, reticent person, very quiet and private.
She is the exact opposite of her prophet husband.
Joe Moeller
Cody, WY
Then out of respect for Mrs. Thiel I for one speaking only for myself - won't be speaking of her any longer on this forum. If Commenter Joe is right, Joyce would probably be very uncomfortable about us talking about her when we do not know her. I'm only speaking for myself of course, out of personal conscience.
I will only say one last thing in this thread concerning: For such a shy, reticent, quiet and private person to be thrown into the COG limelight with a vocal and outspoken husband who thinks he's a prophet and supposedly and seemingly has the answers to all biblical things - when he is absolutely NOTHING of the sort - having to witness her husband being scrutinized by his critics - is a shame. I wish the very best for her.
Well, the reason I posted the question to begin with was merely out of personal curiosity, as I was kind of thinking out loud. My intent was truly not to denigrate Joyce Thiel in any way at all. Her husband is the one making the public claims to biblical prophethood, not her, so far as I know. I just wondered what she may be actually thinking about this entire episode. She may indeed be on the shy and reticent side, but that doesn't mean she has no personal thoughts and feelings of her own with respect to Bob's shenanigans.
On the overall subject of minister's wives: through the years I've known some very genuine, kind and sweet-natured ones. Others, perhaps the majority, not so much. Something about the prestige with which the ministry is held within the confines of the COG's...well, it can produce sinister effects in some people over time.
I remember going to Ambassador College out in Pasadena with a fellow student, a sweet little thing who was very feminine, a bit on the quiet side yet with a most gentle, friendly and approachable temperament. I always thought well of her.
She ended up marrying a nice guy who was eventually ordained into the full-time ministry. By chance, I ran into her about 15 years later up at the S.E.P. summer camp in Orr. We worked together on some rather minor project for awhile along with some other folks, and her entire demeanor had changed into something that astonished me: over time she turned into a bossy, haughty, loud-mouthed bitch - absolutely NOTHING like the sweet thing she was in her younger years during college days. She just arrogantly strutted around like a modern-day version of Jezebel, telling everybody what she wanted done, how to do it, when to do it, etc. Honestly, I was utterly stunned by the change. It was hard to believe this was the same gal I knew in her younger years. Perhaps the personality shift had other causes, but I can't help but think her years of being sucked up to a pastor's wife had at least something to do with it.
Thiel posted today:
"As many of you have commented, it is disappointing and amazing to see the amount of misinformation about me and the Continuing Church of God on the internet. However, those who tend to have the greatest “love of the truth” should be able to see through this, study, and pray. "
I don't even know what to say about this. Dissapointment? Amazing? Misinformation? SERIOUSLY! Absolutely unbelievable.
He sounds JUST like Weinland In my opinion, and he doesnt even see it. I'll say more another time. UGH!
He FINALLY got his podium it seems.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89j7JveXxPQ
Since uploaded, He's had 43 views on Part 1 of his sermon, and then the number dropped to 22 views on Part 2 of his sermon. Simply put, 21 people, roughly half, didn't think it was good enough to listen to even the second part. I wonder how many actually sat through the whole first part. That's some telling statistics.
I don't think that's a podium - it looks like the backside of an old dresser drawers.
Well, it's fairly obvious whatever Bob's talents are, effective speaking is most definitely not one of them.
I don't think Rod Meredith will have to worry about Prophet Bob drawing away many people from the Living Church of God. This guy's presentation style is about as compelling as a water newt.
Clearly this man has greatly deceived himself if he thinks he's been called to be a prophet.
The capacity of the human mind to delude itself is truly amazing.
This guy's presentation style is about as compelling as a water newt.
Clearly this man has greatly deceived himself if he thinks he's been called to be a prophet.
Laura Weinland is the Silent Witness. Maybe Prophet Bob is supposed to be the Silent Prophet?
NEWS FLASH!!!
Bob Thiel's church, which consists of just himself, has just split into two parts.
Time will tell which one is the Philadelphian Remnant and which one is Laodicean.
Joe Moeller
Cody , WY
Years ago, my wife at the time and I were at a dirt track sprintcar race, as was our custom every Saturday night. My wife needed to go to the restroom, and chose a time when the big cars were cooling down and prepping for their main event. While this was happening, it was customary at that track for some little, entry level cars to be having their main event. Anyway, when my wife returned to her seat at the end of the little cars' main event, she inquired as to who had won. I replied to her that it didn't matter. We laughed about this for the rest of the evening.
However, this statement also has application for those in COGdom who suddenly may find themselves accidentally being ordained as prophets while they are being annointed for some totally unrelated illness. "It doesn't matter!" We have yet to see anything like prominence or street buzz come to any of these self-important people. One of them might get arrested for not setting a Christlike example, banned from visiting Israel, or in financial trouble over attempts to build an Armstrong-cookie-cutter empire, but for the most part the all pervasive gospel that is going out around the world emanates from mainstream evangelical Christianity. You'd think that would make Armstrongites ask a few very poignant questions.
BB
But Thiel's craziness does show where certain mindsets can potentially lead to, and I do think it's important to not allow these things to be swept under the carpet and forgotten as if they had never happened, which in times past the WCG easily did. This is what has kept the mind virus alive for so long, at least that particular strain of it. But this is no longer possible in the modern Internet age.
Armstrongites aren't taught nor encouraged to ask questions, especially meaningful, foundational ones. As a long-time, hard-core and genuinely sincere member I eventually bucked the trend and started to make such inquires, and it proved very destructive to the entire supernatural belief system Armstrongism (and any other form of Christianity) is ultimately founded upon.
Post a Comment