Is Using the Bible As A Tool For Criminal Defense Appropriate?

I was sent a link to a story that I had read earlier in the day about a man and his son who have asked to represent themselves in court themselves in court using the Bible to justify their crimes.  While much of our government and legal system lightly base their standards on Christian principles many as asking if this is appropriate in this case.  Here is an interesting quote about the use of the Bible in legal decisions.

The Bible Annotated: Use of the Bible in Reported American Decisions

It is strikingly similar to Muslims who want to have all legal proceedings decided by Sharia Law.  That is the only legal defense that they deem appropriate and just.  According to them Sharia Law overrides any laws on the book in the United States and especially Christian laws.

So the question to ask is,  can the Bible and its record of rape, slavery, justified killings, confiscating property, etc. be used as a defense for crimes that citizens commit, especially when they are "Christians?"

The man and his son have ties to Messianic beliefs, refer to their god as Yeshua. Reporters have not been able to find out exactly what church they attended.

A father and son accused of raping a teenage girl over a three-year period and keeping her shackled in a basement have made it clear that they don't have faith in the law or in the people who practice it.

When they face an Ohio jury as they defend themselves against criminal charges that carry long prison sentences, they will rely on one book: The Bible.

Timothy Ciboro and his son, Esten Ciboro, both of Toledo, are each charged with multiple counts of rape. The trial is scheduled to start this week, months after the girl, who is Timothy Ciboro's stepdaughter, managed to unshackle herself and escape while her alleged abusers were gone, authorities said.

During a hearing Friday, the Ciboros made the unusual request of having access to the Bible, which they plan to cite as they defend themselves in front of a jury. The Bible, Esten Ciboro told a judge, is "the only law book that truly matters," the Toledo Blade reported.  Father and son accused of rape want 'only law book that matters' at trial: The Bible

Is the Bible the only law book that Christians should be accountable to?  Various COG cult leaders think so.  James Malm and Bob Thiel both thing this is approach as does Meredith.  They feel they are higher than the civil law and are accountable to Biblical law first. just like the Ciboro's.
This is the same thing I head many ministers in the COG claim over the decades.

During a hearing Friday, the Ciboros made the unusual request of having access to the Bible, which they plan to cite as they defend themselves in front of a jury. The Bible, Esten Ciboro told a judge, is “the only law book that truly matters,” the Toledo Blade reported.

“There’s a great deal of strategy in Scripture and I use those strategies in everything I do,” Esten Ciboro told the judge, according to the Toledo Blade’s coverage of the hearing. “It’s a vital part of everything I do.”

Timothy Ciboro said he and his son intend to “use God’s holy word to ask questions, questions that we believe are absolutely vital to our case,” the paper reported.

Is the Bible the only law book that matters?

Read more here: http://www.kentucky.com/news/nation-world/national/article128194164.html#storylink=cpy

Read more here: http://www.kentucky.com/news/nation-world/national/article128194164.html#storylink=cpy

Dear Bob,,

"Ignore-ance , that which you ignore, is not just what you don't know...it's also what you won't know."

We don't really know each other but I feel I do know the how and why of your theological thinking.  I spent three decades thinking , processing and explaining the Bible , for the most part minus the specialness of me personally as spoken of in the scriptures, as you do.  I used to believe that the way to crack the Bible Code was to hunt and cobble scripture together, from both Old and New Testaments in the traditional misapplication of the concept of , "line upon line, precept upon precept. Here a little there a little."  I have explained to you , and former colleagues, to the best of my own understanding, how HWA and the Churches of God ministry have misunderstood and misapplied the scripture.  I realize "I was mistaken" is not in the vocabulary of the Church or it's leaders for the most part, but in this you and they are mistaken.

Art Mokarrow once chided me for speaking as if I knew better than he and spoke  with too much confidence, as I assume any man would on any topic he believed in.  When I pointed out to him that it was he that had written a book entitled "God's Puzzle Solved!" and that when one uses the words  "God's", "puzzle" and "solved" in the same sentence, that can be construed as believing one knows everything themselves and may be on the edge of a bit too much confidence.  He just said, "Well, that's not what I mean."

But that's exactly what he meant. 

I know you are sincere in your beliefs as I am in mine and all others in theirs.  But some Church of God ministers make incredibly bold and self centered claims about themselves and actually see themselves spoken of in the scriptures and always the Old Testament.  Gerald Flurry does.  Dave Pack certainly does and you seem to by your own words at times.  Herbert W. Armstrong started this concept rolling with his own perceptions of himself and promoted to the extreme by men such as Gerald Waterhouse, both of whom are now long deceased with Flurry and Pack building their ridiculous religious foundations on the wood, hay and stubble of HWA's self concept.

At any rate, because of the dangers many perceive in the ministries like Gerald Flurry's and Dave Pack's, it is important to keep it all in the public eye for consideration and rejection if need be for mental, emotional and theological safety's sake.  

When I lived on the east coast, I offered to "debate" Dave Pack on anything from his self concept of he seeing himself spoken of in the scriptures to creationism vs evolution.  But, alas, Dave only bombasts from behind the walls of Wadsworth Castle.  I do admit to being impressed with how well Dave was easily dismantled by good science done well as explained to him by the series challenging his "Irrefutable Proofs of God."

And now I live on the Pacific Northwest Coast, mere blocks from the library HWA spent "six months of intensive study" and three blocks from the church he went to be baptised in.

You have dismissed the truth of evolution(as I would expect you to do with a mere 6000 year old template and literalist view) and good science done well with your four easy points that disprove evolution, but you have to know that dismissing such highly studied science such as paleontology and human origins are not easily dismissed in four simple ways unless you are preaching to the choir who have no idea themselves how to explain your four simple points.  Send your four points to Dr. Neil DeGrasse Tyson and see how that goes for you.  I have found the puzzle solving , code breaking and simple points to refuting complex topics to be found wanting personally.

I have forwarded your for simple  points  to Aron Ra, who did the series on Dave Pack's series on The Irrefutable God so he may or  may not take the time to respond as only he can. Stay tuned.

All that to say, let's discuss these matters and reason together for fun and clarity .  Perhaps in front of your local church, or in your own studio, transcribed and video taped as I did with Art Mokarrow in Tyler a few years back and sponsored by The Journal?  I don't claim to be an expert in these matters, but they have caught my attention for the past 30 years spending time on both sides of these issues.  Let's call it a public discussion and not even a debate.  No one has to win, nor would they as sides taken don't change much as we know until personal factors and issues resolve themselves in the mind of each individual over years of consideration and experience.  

Just a thought....Off to work

EXCLUSIVE: UCG Stance On Allwine Murder Case

UCG brass met with their brethren in the Twin Cities today to discuss the tragic Allwine murder case.

Reports from people who attended today's special UCG Twin Cities meeting about the Allwine case:

1. UCG is "not taking sides" in this case.

2. BUT Steve Allwine has been stripped of his eldership and isn't allowed back to church.

3. Amy's family has taken custody of their 9-year-old son.

4. Allwine's family has raised his bail, reportedly. I'm told he could be out of jail this week.

5. Steve Allwine will be pleading not guilty at his February hearing.

6. Some believe he is smart enough to get away with this. This is someone who "takes pride in gaming the system" in daily life, a self-styled lifehacker with a high opinion of his own intellect.

7. While to the layperson, this looks like an open and shut case, if he manages to sow enough reasonable doubt in the state's case, this trial could go sideways. While they do have definitive evidence that Amy was murdered, showing it was Steve beyond a reasonable doubt may prove more difficult.

8. That said, first degree murder charges could be forthcoming once the state assembles a grand jury. Second degree is all they could initially charge him with due to the nature of what they could directly pin on him and what they can't, along with state protocol. But in Minnesota, a grand jury makes the determination to slap someone with first degree murder charges. First degree murder in Minnesota is a life sentence if found guilty.

9. Most in the congregation are sad, aghast, confused and hurt amid this crisis. But above all, there is palpable anger over this betrayal.

Lets see how long it takes for James Malm to copy these specific points and post them as if he received the information.