The David C. Pack Tapes #34 RCG Ministers: “Are they incompetent?”

The David C. Pack Tapes

#34 RCG Ministers: “Are they incompetent?”

 

This third release of conversations between William H. Behrer, III, and David C. Pack of The Restored Church of God is a discussion planning a future ministerial lecture. Based on the content, this would have taken place between late 2012 to early 2014.

 

Dave had a pie-in-the-sky idea about training the men under his control to be “strong," like Herbert W. Armstrong of The Worldwide Church of God, by using video clips of him yelling. Because that is a sign of how right someone is. The louder they are, the truer they are. (Even my parents understood that.)

 

By all accounts, this lecture never happened. It was another “good idea” that did not survive the crawl to reality. Mr. Behrer was letting Dave vent, as do all the ministers at Headquarters unto this day. Let him spit it out, and then you can move on with the rest of your life.

 

For those who may find this hard to follow: LCG is The Living Church of God headquartered in Charlotte, North Carolina. UCG is The United Church of God. A “C.I.” is a church inquiry when someone contacts the church for more information or requests to talk with a minister.

 

Tape #34 is a pre-lunch two-and-a-half minutes long. The dialogue was already underway by the time Mr. Behrer hit the button.

(The sound recording is at the end of this article)

This transcript has been cleaned up to make it more intelligible.

 

 

[Start]

 

DCP: “How many of you thought what I just said was tough? How many of you thought these those last six sentences were strong?” “Wow, Mr. Pack, you're never that strong.” “Here's some other things I want you to be aware.” Boom. Boom. Boom. “How many of you thought that was strong? I wanna show you how far we've come from Herbert Armstrong.” Because I just showed Jeff the strongest statements I've ever made since I have led, under Christ, The Restored Church of God.

 

“Let's now listen to Mr. Armstrong. Here's strong.” I wanna show him on the broadcast [The World Tomorrow]. Just that tenor voice blasting, blowing the chandeliers out.

 

WHB: We have him in the Philippines, too—

 

DCP: In the eighties. Yeah, I'd like to hear that.

 

WHB: At the Philippine campaign.

 

DCP: I'd like to hear a whole series of excerpts. 20, 30 seconds. No more. And just stop. “How many still think I'm strong after the first one? Let's hear another one.” Boom. In the middle of a sermon. It could be video and audio. It's gonna be a very special lecture. And say, “Now look, I'm going to get stronger. I've waited years and this is the place to do it.”

 

Our ministers need to get better. Are they mechanical? Are they incompetent? Are they neglectful? Are they arrogant? They just think they know better. "I know what it said, but I'm just kinda disobedient, you know?” What is the problem? Are they just incredibly weak? Because I'm finding, when I listen to [minister], I read that. I know it takes time to develop C.I.s. With [minister], New Zealand there.

 

WHB: Yes.

 

DCP: And that's one view. Wudden't that shocking? LCG just baptized him.

 

WHB: Very much. But, not surprising. Not surprising. I've seen it with UCG. Not surprisingly, and it varies from minister to minister. I'm not even convinced that they would endorse that in Charlotte, but ministers basically—

 

DCP: It's tolerated. Tolerated. And that might be part of our problem. We don't endorse a lot of stuff that's going on out there. We don't have field structure. Who are the guys? You know. I had fourteen things in the list.

 

WHB: Okay.

 

DCP: You know, Bill, I see the meals are arriving, but…

 

WHB: So, wanna stop?

 

DCP: Sure.

 

[End]

 

 

The man mentioned near the end has not been a member of RCG for several years. His name was redacted since he was not the focal point of the discussion.

 

“Wow, Mr. Pack, you're never that strong.”

 

When it was mentioned in the previous tape article about patterns emerging the more you listen to these recordings, I was not kidding. Dave loves to put his words in other people's mouths, especially when they speak highly of him. It is like he winds up a bunch of toy monkeys, places them in front of himself, and makes them all clap in his direction.

 

The world David C. Pack lives in is filled with people who admire and praise him. He is a human idol, after all, so that makes sense. His idea of what people think of him and what he says is clear, powerful, strong, electrifying, fascinating—vomit.

 

The reality is that Dave’s teachings are confusing, contradictory, repetitive, fleeting, and boring.

 

He shared with Mr. Behrer the back-and-forth interaction that would never come to pass. He knew how his audience would respond and be wowed because what he says is always super-duper important.

 

“Our ministers need to get better.”

 

This has been David C. Pack’s burden since The Worldwide Church of God crumbled. There were no strong and faithful ministers left, so Dave had to go it alone. All the weaklings he has been stuck with were nothing compared to the Golden Boys of WCG. It is the Laodicean age, don’t ya see?

 

Dave often spoke from the lectern about how he lamented no "good senior ministers" were left in the world. They had all compromised and softened by joining a splinter or staying home. Or just died.

 

Even when men like Mr. Behrer and Mr. Dale Schurter were brought into the RCG bullpen, they eventually soured in Dave's eyes. He got what he wanted, but they had flaws and were not good enough for him. So, back to going it alone. Boo hoo.

 

Every minister who drifts in and out of RCG Headquarters has had to sit and listen to how disappointed Dave has been with the fields he is forced to reap from. There is no quality grain left to make decent bread. You can only bake with the ingredient you have.

 

These same men have witnessed Dave tear apart the man sitting next to them, hoping he does not move one chair to the left or right. But, all those men get a turn in due course.

 

The ridicule and tear-downs do not end when you leave the room. Oh no. Chances are when you walk down the hallway after they close the door, it is your turn, too. Dave is famous for ripping into the man who is not present. It is an ever-revolving door of scorn.

 

David C. Pack is not afraid to verbally assault you to the point of tears in front of others, but his more "casual sniping" occurs when the target is not in sight. 

 

No minister at The Restored Church of God can call me a liar on this. The accounts are too similar from too many for too long. Thus is the way of God’s apostle. The sometimes-Elijah. A man chock-full and running over with God’s Holy Spirit. Uh…sure.

 

The natural pattern of abuse begins on the third floor and works its way throughout the entire organization. Fear, confusion, and doubt are the spirits at work in RCG today.

 

 

“Are they incompetent? Neglectful? Arrogant? Disobedient? Incredibly weak?”

 

This is how David C. Pack sees the men around him. He is forced to work with this raw clay to make ministers out of it. No wonder he gets more and more pissy as we “go on for another year.”

 

Some think the brethren have it tough, but try being a minister at Headquarters, and you will get a taste of The Real Dave. These tape releases have yet to demonstrate his full behind-the-scenes fury.

 

What has become a boon for the entire Restored Church of God Whistleblowing industry is that what Dave would have said years ago only behind closed doors is now streamed to the whole church. That is one metric of how David C. Pack is losing control. His deterioration is being documented out in the open by the progressive madness of “The Greatest Unending Story!” Series that will finally come to a final end with the final Part 404 this Friday night. Finally.

 

No one can edit Dave anymore. I think even Brad has let go of the wheel, and if Dave takes the car off the cliff, so be it.

 

David C. Pack is far above the men who surround him.

 

They are the incompetent, arrogant ones. Not him.

 

They are the blaspheming murderous ones. Not him.

 

They are the hypocritical thieves. Not him.

 

When God does eventually intervene, I suspect the most surprised person on the planet will be Pester General David C. Pack.

#34 – DCP: Ministers – Are They Incompetent?

Marc Cebrian

See: The David C. Pack Tapes.  #34 RCG Ministers: “Are they incompetent?”

So You Want to Preach the Gospel? : The Elephant in the Room of the Church of God Ministry

 I will say plainly that no minister or pastor in any of the splits, splinters or slivers of the Church of God is qualified to actually be a legitimate minister or pastor in any church on Earth. They know next to nothing about the origin, authors, history of, intent, problems with, politics, genres and difficulties in and with the scriptures. They certainly have no skills in dealing with the real life issues and needs of human beings in a faith community. I use the term "Faith Community" loosely. 

 Whether it is Gerald Flurry and Family, Dave Pack and his enabling ministry, Ron Weinland and himself or Bob Thiel and his double portioned self, NONE of these men or their elders are qualified to know enough about the Bible to accurately teach the scriptures. 

Their lack of proper training is why we have the lunacy we have in a Gerald Flurry, Dave Pack, Ron Weinland or Robert Thiel and MANY OTHERS who claim theological brilliance and calling. 

I will simply say that as well that an Ambassador College "degree" in theology was worthless and would be scorned by any legitimate theological school. A class in the Harmony of the Gospels, The Genesis Flood, questionable world history, Old Testament Survey, a good read and clueless commentary on the Epistles of Paul and booklets published by the WCG do not a theological education make. Throwing in speech classes based on the Spokesman Club Manuel do not a trained speaker maker either.  They certainly do not an educated clergy make to this day. 

I recently forced myself to listen to a number of Feast Sermons. Some by men I knew and one in particular and his son who I knew very well and who informed the Church I pastored, after I was transferred that I was the worst thing that ever happened to the _____________ Church. This was mostly because I was not a sheriff as he was and did not force people to do what was neither necessary nor expedient for the long-term mental health and attitude of the congregation. Both are terrible speakers and know next to nothing about the Book they pretend to know so much about. They are typical of most all the Church of God elders and ministry. 

Dave Pack is a special kind of ignorant, but we knew that...

The vast majority of the Church of God ministry simply knows little about what they speak of with such authority. 

This is a brief rundown on a typical theological education in ministry, in this case, as offered by the Westminster Theological Seminary in their Academic Catalog. 

This is just a small part of the program and NO I DO NOT EXPECT YOU TO READ ALL THIS. Just to see the topics listed and the goals of such teaching should suffice to show how precious little a theological education the Elders, Ministers and Pastors have, much less the Apostles, Watchers, Elijah's and Zerrubbabel's in the COG's actually have.  It is why I term them and so many "Mere Bible Readers".

From the West Minister Theological Seminary Academic Catalog

https://assets.website-files.com/607eea4517cd5c0a2e0d32e2/626021fd6c258d378bb3f131_2022-2023%20Academic%20Catalog.pdf

Church History It has been well said that people make history, but they do not make the history that they choose. All human beings act in particular times, in particular places, and for a variety of different reasons. The aim of the Church History department is to teach students to understand the way in which human action is shaped by historical, social, economic, cultural, and theological concerns; and by so doing to allow the students to understand better their own positions as those who act in context. Though we live in an anti-historical age, the Church History department is committed to helping students realize the liberating importance of having a solid grasp of those historical trajectories which shape, often in hidden ways, the life of the church in the present. To that end, the Church History curriculum enables students: 

● To recognize the ambiguities and complexities of human history

 ● To examine themselves in the light of the past 

● To engage with an epistemologically self-conscious historical methodology 

● To see how the church’s testimony to Christ has been preserved and articulated through the ages 

● To recognize turning points in the history of the church 

● To identify major types and paradigms of Christian vision in societies past and present 

● To be well acquainted with the Reformed heritage ● To recognize global patterns in the spread of the gospel through missions

 ● To cultivate modesty with regard to their own times and cultures by setting these within the perspective of the great sweep of church history

 ● To be inspired by what they learn to proclaim God’s grace to today’s world 

Church History Master's Level Courses CH 141 History of Christianity I Purpose: ·

 To identify key personalities, events, and doctrines within their particular cultural, social, and political contexts of the Ancient and Medieval Church.

 · To summarize major movements and ideas of the Ancient and Medieval church, with special attention on the development of the Reformed tradition. 

· To distinguish between varying theological traditions as formed in the Ancient church and developing into the Medieval period.

 · To demonstrate contemporary applications of Ancient and Medieval church history, such as deepening our developing the creeds and councils in an effort to understand Scripture more faithfully and embolden believers by testimonies of God’s faithfulness. Topics covered will be drawn from the early Ancient church through the Medieval church. Students will be introduced to major movements and personalities of church history while gaining first hand exposure to primary source material to help articulate historical developments of theology. Online (September and March terms), three hours. Restrictions: Only available to MAC and MATS students. 

CH 151 History of Christianity II Purpose: · 

To identify key personalities, events, and doctrines within their particular cultural, social, and political contexts of the Reformation and Modern Church. 

· To summarize major movements and ideas of the Reformation and modern church, with special attention on the development of the Reformed tradition.

 · To distinguish between varying theological traditions as formed in the Reformation and developing into the modern period. 

· To demonstrate contemporary applications of Reformation and Modern church history, such as deepening our understanding of Scripture and emboldening believers by testimonies of God’s faithfulness. Topics covered will be drawn from the Reformation through the modern world. 

Students will be introduced to major movements and personalities of church history while gaining first hand exposure to primary source material to help articulate historical developments of theology. Online (September and March terms), three hours. Restrictions: Only available to MAC and MATS students. CH 211 

The Ancient Church Purpose: 

· To introduce students to the major events, personalities, and ideas which shaped the life and thought of the early church 

· To encourage students to think historically about the church’s past 

· To enable students to read the major texts of the early Church Fathers for themselves Topics and personalities covered include the first-century background, the Apostolic Fathers, Irenaeus, Tertullian, Origen, Trinitarian and Christological debates, Augustine, the rise of monasticism, and martyrdom. Residential (Fall and Spring terms) and Online (Spring term), two hours.

Old Testament Nothing is more foundational to Christian ministry than a full-orbed knowledge and embrace of the gospel. The Old Testament department is committed to teaching the first thirty-nine books of the Bible, with all the aspects entailed, as the anticipation of the glorious climactic fulfillment of redemption in Jesus Christ. To this end, the Old Testament curriculum enables students:

 ● To acquire a reading and exegetical knowledge of biblical Hebrew 

● To acquire a knowledge of the content of the Old Testament 

● To grapple with the challenges of biblical interpretation 

● To evaluate the ways in which the Old Testament has been interpreted in the past 

● To perceive the unity of the Old and New Testaments and the hermeneutical significance of their unity 

● To understand and value the historical context in which God gave his redemptive revelation, how it began in the Old Testament period and then culminated in the glorious and extraordinary climax to that history in Christ and his work in Christ as interpreted in the New Testament 

● To understand the redemptive-historical framework of “kingdom through covenant” as the story-structure of the Old Testament

 ● To identify the major biblical-theological themes of the Old Testament and to recognize their importance for understanding the gospel 

● To develop skill in understanding and applying each of the books of the Old Testament 

● To learn to communicate the gospel through the Old Testament 

● To be encouraged to embrace the gospel in continuing and vital ways through the glory of God’s self-disclosure and to fear the Lord and love him with the whole heart Holy Land Studies For courses at the Jerusalem University College, see Chapter 7. 113 Old Testament Master's Level Courses OT 011, 012,

 013 Biblical Hebrew Purpose: · 

To teach students elements of the Hebrew language 

· To expose the student to a significant amount of biblical Hebrew through extensive translation of portions of the Hebrew Bible 

· To prepare the student for further exegetical work in Old Testament courses Topics covered include orthography, phonemics, morphology, and syntax. 

Old Testament Introduction Purpose: 

· To introduce students to the complex hermeneutical, theological, and doctrinal issues surrounding Old Testament interpretation Topics covered include the history of the Hebrew text; the use of the Old Testament in the Pseudepigrapha, Apocrypha, and New Testament; the major critical methods and postmodern interpretation; and biblical theology. Residential (Fall and Spring semesters) and Online (Summer term), three hours. Prerequisites: OT 012 (or equivalent), completed or in progress. OT 141 Old Testament Theology for Application Purpose: 

· To expose the student to specific interpretive issues in Old Testament historical, prophetic and wisdom books 

· To demonstrate how Old Testament historical, prophetic and wisdom books are to be interpreted and applied in light of the gospel 

· To engage in close reading and apply to specific books the principles of biblical-theological interpretation learned in Bible Survey Topics covered include redemptive-historical interpretation and the question of application; critique of various popular methods of application of biblical material; the nature of biblical history-writing; the office, function, and theology of the prophet in the Old Testament; understanding wisdom literature in light of the gospel; the specific theologies and redemptive-historical trajectories of several specific biblical books; and the use of the Old Testament in ministry.

 Old Testament History and Theology I Purpose: 

· To provide an introduction to the theology of the Pentateuch, focusing on Genesis 1–11

 · To engage in the exegesis of selected passages from Genesis 1–11 with particular attention to their relationship to ancient Near Eastern literature, the theology of the Pentateuch as a whole, and to the history of redemption as it reaches its climax in the gospel Topics covered include the narrative structure of the Bible, the Pentateuch and the history of redemption, Genesis 1–11 as an entry point to biblical theology. Residential (Fall semester) and Online (Spring semester), three hours. Prerequisites: OT 013 (or equivalent) and NT 123. OT 223 Old Testament History and Theology II Purpose:

 · To explore the relationship among literature, history, and theology from Genesis 12 through Ezra/Nehemiah · To provide a knowledge of the content of this section of canon 

· To give a biblical-theological framework for applying these books in life and ministry In addition to the theology and content of each of these books, topics include the relationship of Deuteronomy to the other books; Old Testament historiography; Old Testament theology; the relationship between revelation, history, and theology; and covenant. Residential (Spring semester) and Online (Summer semester), three hours. Prerequisites: OT 013 (or equivalent), OT 211, and NT 123. OT 311 

Prophetical Books Purpose: 

· To provide knowledge of the content of this portion of the canon

 · To study the role of the Hebrew prophets in Israelite society and the nature of Israelite prophecy 

· To give a biblical-theological framework to understand the prophetic books in life and ministry Topics covered include the structure, content, and theology of the prophetic books and Daniel; the ancient Near Eastern setting of prophecy; the history of interpretation of the prophetic literature; and the role of the prophets in redemptive history. A portion of the course involves seminar discussions with the professor. Residential (Fall and Spring semesters) and Online (Fall semester), three hours. Prerequisites: OT 013 (or equivalent) and NT 123. OT 323

 Poetry and Wisdom Purpose:

 · To gain a strong familiarity with the nature of Hebrew poetry 

· To explore the theological context of the wisdom books (Job, Proverbs, Ecclesiastes), Psalms, and Song of Songs 

To discuss the theology of Old Testament wisdom vis-à-vis the gospel Topics covered include the nature and diversity of Old Testament wisdom books; characteristics of Hebrew poetry; exegetical studies of various psalms, Job, Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, and Song of Songs; and wisdom and the New Testament. Residential (Fall and Spring semesters) and Online (Spring semester), two hours. Prerequisites: OT 013 (or equivalent) and NT 123. 

New Testament The New Testament department serves the mission of WTS to train specialists in the Bible by teaching the entirety of the New Testament, in its original language, as the full revelation of the covenant of God’s grace in Jesus Christ, providing foundational training and tools for a lifetime of learning and ministry. To this end, the New Testament curriculum enables students: 

● To acquire facility in reading and rigorous exegesis of the New Testament in Greek

 ● To understand and value the historical context in which God accomplished his work in Christ, and through which he gave us the New Testament

 ● To perceive the unity of the Old and New Testaments and the hermeneutical significance thereof, with attention to our Confessional Standards 

● To grapple with the challenges of biblical interpretation

 ● To recognize major biblical-theological themes of the New Testament and their importance for understanding the biblical message 

● To develop skill in understanding and applying each of the books of the New Testament 

● To encourage growth in godliness and spiritual maturity 

● To evaluate the ways in which the New Testament has been interpreted in the past

New Testament Master's Level Courses NT 001, NT 002, NT 003 New Testament Greek Purpose: · To prepare students for further work in the New Testament by giving them a reading knowledge of Koiné Greek The course is designed for beginners; no prior knowledge of Greek is assumed. Students will cover the basics of grammar and acquire a core vocabulary. During the last semester students will do recitations from the Greek New Testament and be introduced to the issues of syntax. See Chapter 9 for possible sequences and Chapter 6 for auditing restrictions. Residential and Online, three hours each. NT 111 New Testament Introduction Purpose: · To continue to provide students with the historical and literary framework requisite for responsible New Testament interpretation. 

Topics covered include introductory matters that apply to the New Testament as a whole, especially inscripturation, canon formation, textual transmission, textual criticism, historical background in Judaism and the Greco-Roman world, and especially how the Old Testament forms the most important background for the New Testament. 

Some attention will also be paid to linguistic background. The general approach to these issues is historical, but with an underlying concern for the theological dimensions of each. Residential (Fall and spring terms), and Online (Summer term), three hours. Prerequisites: NT 001 (or equivalent) completed or in progress. NT 123 Biblical Hermeneutics: Old and New Testaments Purpose: · To grow in skill in understanding, interpreting, and applying the Bible Topics covered include prolegomena to biblical interpretation, principles and practice of biblical interpretation, and the question of hermeneutics in the historical-critical tradition. Residential (Spring semester) and Online (Spring semester), four hours. Prerequisites: NT 003 (or equivalent) completed or in progress, OT 012 (or equivalent) completed or in progress, NT 111 completed or in progress, and ST 101 completed or in progress. It is recommended that OT 012 be completed rather than in progress. NT 143 

New Testament Theology for Application Purpose:

 · To understand better the content and theology of the New Testament, with particular focus on how the Gospels, Acts, Epistles, and Revelation apply to life and counseling contexts.

 · To describe how believers can meaningfully move from the text of Scripture to a wise, gospel-centered application of its truths

 · To gain experience in seeing the Christological/Gospel-centered implications of any text as a prerequisite for meaningful personal application. · To grow in their ability to rivet Scriptural truth to real-life ministry situations. 

NT 211 New Testament Interpretation: The Gospels Purpose: 

· To develop a framework of understanding for interpreting and applying the canonical Gospels 

· To familiarize students with the Gospels’ description of the earthly ministry and teaching of Jesus Christ, and to enable them to understand and apply the theology of the Gospels in ministry Topics covered include a selective survey and critique of historical-critical investigation of the Gospels, questions of special introduction, an overview of the content and theology of Jesus’ actions and teaching, and an examination of the character and special emphases of each canonical Gospel. Residential (Fall semester) and Online (Summer semester), four hours. Prerequisites: NT 003 (or equivalent), OT 013 (or equivalent) completed or in progress, NT 111, and NT 123. NT 223 New Testament Interpretation: Acts and the Pauline Epistles Purpose: 

· To deepen understanding of Acts and the letters of Paul and apply them to students’ lives and ministry Topics covered include questions of special introduction, exegetical method, exegesis of selected texts, and basic themes in the theology of Acts and the letters of Paul. Residential (Spring semester) and Online (Fall semester), four hours. Prerequisites: NT 003 (or equivalent), OT 013 (or equivalent), NT 111, and NT 123. NT 311 

New Testament Interpretation: Hebrews to Revelation Purpose: 

· To introduce the particular character of Hebrews through Revelation 

· To enable students to understand these books so that they can apply their teaching to their own lives and in their ministry The course will deal with questions of special introduction and will include the exegesis of selected passages in order to establish the structure and distinctive themes of these books.

NT 403 Theology and the Exegesis of the Gospel of John See NT 703. Spring semester, two hours. Prerequisites: NT 211 NT 405 

The Gospel of Mark See NT 705. Summer term, two hours. Prerequisites: NT 211 122 NT 433 

The Book of Revelation See NT 733. Fall semester, three hours. Prerequisites: NT 003 (or equivalent) completed or in progress. NT 463 

The Acts of the Apostles See NT 763. Spring semester, two hours. Prerequisites: NT 223. NT 581 

Theology of Hebrews See NT 881. Fall semester, two hours. Prerequisites: NT 123. NT 641 Inner-Biblical Interpretation See NT 941. Fall semester, two hours. Prerequisites: NT 003 (or equivalent), OT 013 (or equivalent) recommended. Restrictions: Limited enrollment. NT 643

 Christology of the New Testament and Early Church See NT 943. Spring semester, two hours. Prerequisites: NT 123 NT 651 

Theological Models and Exegesis See NT 951. Fall semester, two hours. Prerequisites: NT 123. NT 663 

Greek Exegesis and Issues in Pauline Theology See NT 963. Spring semester, two hours. Prerequisites: NT 123. NT 681 

History of Interpretation See NT 981. Fall semester, two hours. Prerequisites: CH 211, NT 123. New Testament ThM/PhD Level Course

....and so on....

Did The Ony True Remnant Get Raptured At The Feast Or Are They Currently Suffering A Satanic Attack?

 

Dagnabbit! Wouldn't you know it? Satan is really, really angry that the one true remnant headed off to Jerusalem for the Feast of Tabernacles to prepare the way of the Lord. Satan is so angry that he has caused the only true website that carries the only true words of the ONLY True Apostle in the Church of God (Herbert W Armstrong) to disappear off the internet. It's the famine of the word,  boys and girls! The famine of the word!

Right before the Feast the Kitchen family, the last remaining three true Church of God members on earth, directed their followers to head on over to Jerusalem to celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles there.

IF YOU LOVE THE TRUTH YOU ARE MY PEOPLE! If you have the attitude of pleasing God above all else, and you love GOD then visit wwcg-archives.com and involve yourself. BELIEVE THE TRUTH AS YOU COME TO SEE IT. Don't disregard it or throw it away. FIND VALUE IN IT. 

 

THE WORLDWIDE CHURCH OF GOD is now gathering in Jerusalem to keep the FEASTS of God! Come join us. Stand counted with the Church who backed and supported Christ and His apostle, and has endured much persecution for THEIR LOVE OF THE TRUTH. You are not alone. 

 

WELCOME BRETHREN! ASSEMBLE IN JERUSALEM. LET THE WORLD KNOW THAT THERE IS A PEOPLE WHO LOVE THEIR GOD AND HIS TRUTH! 

 

In the service of Jesus Christ,
Samuel W Kitchen

Just like Bob Thiel, the Kitchens have been unable to gather any COG members into their fledgling church. No one cares. No one is impressed by the web site - which currently si nonexistent. Either they did not pay the hosting bill before they headed over to Jerusalem or we are in the actual famine of the word thanks to fall boy Satan, the big bad meanie of everything that goes wrong in the Churches of God.

Samuel Kitchen wrote:

I have spent much time on the flaws of other groups; and how they differ from what Mr. Armstrong taught, and whether they are false and misleading. 

 

RIGHT NOW, I want to focus on the truths THEY DO TEACH. 

 

Do you know that those men in your church group or organization received them from Mr. Herbert W. Armstrong? The source of those truths came from God's Word, and when Mr. Armstrong saw them and BELIEVED, he taught those truths to the ministry who were trained at Ambassador College and they turned around and taught them to the congregations of the Church. 

 

EMBRACE ALL TRUTH BRETHREN! Some truths of God have found their way into protestant churches, and even into the Catholic Church, and even into other religions. Do we deny the truths of God when we see them? NO. 

 

Jesus Christ IS TRUTH. And the head of this Church is Jesus Christ. Truth is the body of Christ, and if we are members of that spiritual body, we must EMBRACE ALL TRUTH. 

 

You hold onto what truth you have brethren. Some may have little truth and much error. Some may have much truth and little error. Each is growing spiritually as they live everyday being led by God's Holy Spirit. Once you find error, or are shown error, you have a responsibility to throw that error away and grasp hold of the good. The truth is good. SO HOLD ONTO THAT BRETHREN! 

 

What I am here to say is that more truth is available to you if you listen to Mr. Herbert W. Armstrong. He is the apostle of Jesus Christ according to the work He did. We have instructions in the Bible concerning how we should approach and involve the apostle in our relationship with God and Christ. 

 

I believe that instruction is very important as we strive to live by every word of God. 

 

So is that instruction from God's Word important to you brethren? I know you may disagree on things, or maybe don't quite understand some things. But once we find truth and are shown truth, we have the responsibility to act on it and make it apart of us, if we be the Body of Christ. 

 

You are not a member of the United Church of God, or Restored Church of God, or Philadelphia Church of God, or Continuing Church of God, or Living Church of God, or Church of God international, or Church of God, a Worldwide Association, or on and on. These are separate groups, separated by their works. 

 

They are not the Worldwide Church of God which is with the apostle in full support. 

 

The work of the Worldwide Church of God has been preserved online. We have been involved with the Work of God. Jesus Christ said the Work of God is to BELIEVE the one sent. Jesus was sent by the Father, and the apostles were sent by Jesus Christ. Our Worldwide Church of God membership is engaged in the work of God by BELIEVING the one sent by Christ! We saw and read the truth of God and WE EMBRACED IT and MADE IT APART OF OURSELVES! 

 

And so we support the man who preaches the truth! 

 

We do it autonomously. We do it of our own free will. 

 

The Word of God is important to us, and the instructions and doctrines of Christ are very much wanted and desired by our membership.

Gerald Flurry Claims He Is Now The "Father" To Jerusalem and Israel

 

"The Bible does not tell of some man acting as a throne warmer and tithe collector, 

sitting in the place of Jesus till He returns."

The silliness coming out of the Church of God movement worsens by the day. Herbert Armstrong could never have envisioned the craziness that his own esoteric beliefs would create decades down the line. HWA's special understandings have been left by the wayside as new and improved prophets of god have self-appointed themselves and declared new visions and understanding. Each and every one of them has been proven to be liars.

Is GF a Father to the Inhabitants of Judah, or a Father of Lies?
November 7, 2022 

 

The K.O.D. program on September 30, 2022 titled “Queen Elizabeth II Made a Fatal Mistake” centered around the subject of the death of Queen Elizabeth II. Could GF be the one making a fatal mistake in overstepping royal boundaries and by suggesting he sits higher up in royal authority than the Queen of England? 

 

GF in his secret sermons has implied that he is to be as a “father” to Jerusalem and the house of Judah. How is it that he is able to make himself out to be a “father to the inhabitants of Judah” just by setting foot in Israel in the footprints of HWA, and then by means of taking the members’ extorted money and pressured donations to his Jerusalem Fund, and giving that money over to the cause of “biblical” archaeology? Does he think to purchase Jerusalem archaeology for himself and also gain an imaginary status of “fatherhood?” from it? 

 

Many times, GF has in his sermons quoted the verse Isaiah 22:21 while subtlety applying it towards himself, in identifying himself as a “father to the inhabitants of Judah…” Does he truly believe that only he, GF, will be the one to tell them, saying, “unto the cities of Judah,” as he has quoted countless times now, in referring to the commission he supposes to have, “Behold your God!” quoting Isaiah 40:9? (Is this to command the Jewish people to behold God, or to behold a man who acts like a god?) 

 

How dare GF imply that the people of Israel and Jerusalem are so ignorant of their own history that the Jewish people need a con-artist and megalomaniac such as him to deliver “the truth” about Jerusalem and Israel to them, acting as if he, GF, and not the Jewish people, practically owns Jerusalem already? That “church” in its lofty imagination does practically pretend to own Jerusalem archaeology like some poster child of their own. 

 

Does being able to distort the Bible verses which contain “the key of David” (in Isaiah 22 and Revelation 3) and by placing them into his own context in order to support his personal biblical fantasy somehow make him a father to the Jews of Israel, or even as a new “king” of Judah? Does GF in his own mind, now believe he is the de facto “king of Judah” as well as of England? 

 

It is the Lamb of God, the real Lamb of God, not an imaginary “christ come in the flesh” figurehead, who now sits on the throne on the right hand of our Father in heaven? The Bible does not tell of some man acting as a throne warmer and tithe collector, sitting in the place of Jesus till He returns.
How can some money grubbing man lay claim to being as a “father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and to the house of Judah” who has done nothing at all to assist the oppressed, including the Jewish refugees fleeing from Ukraine? 

 

Who is more “worldly” in withholding their money from helping anyone, including disaster victims, and even their own poor, than the PCG? And yet somehow GF would convince people that Jews and the people of Jerusalem will look up to him as their “father” and worship at his feet? Who could be more delusional? –[name withheld] Exit and Support Network

Another Defection From Restored Church of God: RCG Exit Letter: Richard Nogan

 

RCG Exit Letter: Richard Nogan

 

Dear Mr. [Minister],

 

I write this with a heavy heart. Though I do enjoy a good debate, this subject matter goes much deeper than that. My intent is not to ridicule anyone. I am not shy about being frank. After all, David C. Pack emphasized several times, “God is very frank, brethren." So here we go.

 

My wife, Lolita, and I were in The Worldwide Church of God under Herbert W. Armstrong. I was baptized on February 2, 1980, and my wife in July 1982. She stayed in WCG until 1995, while I left in 1996. This was due to the "Apostasy" that had taken place after Mr. Armstrong’s death. That is another subject but does have its relation to this letter. After that, we did not go to any "splinter/sliver" group.

 

After about 16 years, I felt this tug on my heart (pardon the vernacular) for wanting God in my life again. During this period, our lives were turned upside-down. The former life we totally engaged in was pulled right out from under us. We did not know where to go or what to do. We were lost children and knew nothing about the splinter/sliver groups.

 

After 19 years, we found The Restored Church of God under David C. Pack in 2014. This led me to study intensely to re-prove what we once believed and had lost. It all seemed right again, even though it differed significantly from WCG. I give this little background not to talk about us but to explain the damage that “Church hurt” can afflict in one's life after putting all your trust in an organization that claims they are the “only ones with God’s truth.” A place that is “the ONLY one true Church of God” with Jesus Christ as the Head. He is only working with that church. It amazes me the limits that are placed on God.

 

So here lies the problem. The figurehead of The Restored Church of God, David C. Pack, has been claiming titles and believing he has many mentions in the Bible. He also tries to convince others this is true. A lot of bad things can happen once you go down that road, including mind manipulation.

 

The "prophecy" series stories are full of failed predictions. Many have put up with this for approximately 7 years. To me, that was not so bad even though we did some weird things trying to be obedient, like staying up for 24 hours in our best clothing for the return of Jesus Christ. Weird, all right. We chalked it up as experience and David Pack’s misunderstanding because God has not revealed everything to him yet.

 

Okay, so we jump more to the present. We were constantly told not to build new barns but to give all. (Common. Another story where scripture has been manipulated so many did give a lot. You know the story.) Then came the fear tactics of threatening our salvation. Oh yeah, that is a major play. Along came fear and Satan moved right in. “Brethren, if you do not believe what I'm saying, you need to check your conversion!!! If you leave, you have left God's Church and are no longer part of the body of Christ with your salvation at stake!!!”

 

On and on it goes. Meanwhile, David C. Pack built a big luxurious barn for horses and recently bought half a million-dollar house. These things are known, but I repeat them for context.

 

Now comes the condemnations, with many being thrown into the lake of fire and thrusting God's enemies through with a sword. Granted, the Bible does have much to say about that, but it is not any man's judgment call to make but because many in RCG worship DCP they can't wait to condemn and start thrusting. The judging and condemning have crept into the mind and spirit of RCG. Let me be clear, I am not saying everyone in RCG, but that spirit, without a doubt, has been planted.

 

Example: A few of us went out for a meal, and an individual brought up that he saw a man in black walking a dog and that he was of a wicked spirit. This person went on and on, judging and condemning a person they did not even know. When I brought this to their attention, that Christ died for that person walking the dog, and that God will give them a chance, too, I was just told to “go back to Egypt” repeatedly. The strange thing is, that accuser was close to me and my wife. In fairness, they did apologize the next day, and all was forgiven. But looking back now, it is interesting how that type of mentality is so subtle as it takes over any rational behavior.

 

This finger-pointing, judging and condemning continued to grow in RCG. We understand that we can all do that in one way or another or say things we ought not, but when it continues to grow as a message from the ministry, something is seriously wrong.

 

We would hear in sermons how evil everyone else is and how lukewarm and unconverted the splinters are, and that if you have trauma in your life, "GET OVER IT!" Stop your whining, you crybabies. Have a self-pity party. Another minister said, “We (ministers) are the only ones equipped to deal with what you are going through.” 

 

Let me inject here that at the Feast of Tabernacles a couple of years ago, we were told from the lectern that those with tattoos should have them scrubbed off with a wire brush. When I asked someone with a tattoo what they thought of that statement, they replied, “Maybe that’s what we deserve.” A contagious, condemning, oppressive spirit was at work.

 

I have talked to a sizable number of brethren about different groups and peoples, and most had the same reaction about a subject, "Mr. Pack said…” or “The minister said…” There was no original thought or question to be had. No wonder that condemning, oppressive spirit grows in RCG.

 

Now, I come to the statement from the very Apostle under Jesus Christ, who had died for all people and races. It went something like this, “The Chinese people are wicked, evil people." Then he ranted and raved about their dragon symbols. I can see if the rant was about the CCP as a corrupt, evil government because that really cannot be argued. But to say such things about a people, who are any of us to judge? Well, DCP seems perfectly fine with doing that.

 

Maybe RCG heads should do some research regarding what people suffer under severe persecution because they take on the name of a Christian, believe in The Father and His son, keep the commandments as best they understand, they hide when trying to worship together. They have to hide pages of the Bible or the Bible itself if one is that fortunate. Christians are targeted by the CCP police. Hunted down and, if caught, taken to a prison where the individual is interrogated for hours, beaten, and put in a dungeon-type cell for as long as it is decided. They are starved and sometimes die due to cruel punishments. Not to mention what other nations do to Christians, such as burn their villages, murder men and children, rape women, and behead their loved ones right in front of them because the Christians will not recant.

 

Strangely enough, some also are Sabbath-keepers. My point? Who are any of us to judge while limiting God to who He acknowledges, who He will have mercy on or not?

 

Let’s ask the question: Being that God is the only One who can draw a person and reveal the truth to and with that, the person totally surrenders all, and I do mean ALL, and they go through this severity then God's response is, “Sorry you didn’t belong to RCG, the only place I am working. Thanks for what you went through, but…"

 

Perhaps as an apostle, "one sent forth," and one who is an evangelist, "euaggelistēs, the one who proclaims the glad tidings,” should leave the empire of dirt, the Wadsworth compound, which both say they rarely go out of—and do the work of God in China. I believe they still know what work that is. Or go to other countries such as Iran, Afghanistan, and Laos, to name a few, and see how that works out for them. Point again? The finger-pointing, judging, and condemning are NOT our place and not of God! Especially at this time.  

 

I have often heard how corrupt and evil or lax the splinter groups are and how they beat their fellow servants and make merchandise out of the brethren. Oh boy, remember Romans 2:1-3? With that in mind, it is not my intent to do any of this to anyone in RCG or anywhere else, but it is my intent for this to be a reality check for all of us.

 

I ask for forgiveness, first, from our Father through Jesus Christ and ask it also of those in the body, whoever they are and wherever they may be. If we all humble ourselves and work together as one body, then so much more will be accomplished. But at this time, I do not think that will happen. There are too many political and power struggles, even in the Church of God.

 

This One Church is a manipulator of the scriptures. This is why my wife left, and I was suspended, because I do not believe this, either. I was asked to read the book, “The True Church: One Organization, Or Many?” Of course, it is biased, but I read it. This letter could become several pages of questions and refuting, but I have no interest in doing that now.

 

So, my wife and I are now lepers, unclean, and are not to be contacted? Amazing how the very ones that were our brothers and sisters in Christ turned against us so quickly. Not even a text by the hypocrites who talk behind Mr. Pack and the minister’s back. Yes, true unity in action.

 

Mr. [Minister], please accept this as my resignation as a member of The Restored Church of God.

 

Be safe,

 

Richard Nogan

 

P.S. I went into my RCG login, and the song "For the Love of Money" by the O' Jays started to play. LOL!!! My wife and I laughed, not knowing how and why it played.

 

Courtesy of Marc Cebrian

See: RCG Exit Letter: Richard Nogan