Tuesday, January 22, 2013

Dave Pack Declares Church Wide Fast To Embarrass Members Who Have Not Met Their Building Pledge



Silenced is reporting that Dave Pack had to declare a fast this past weekend for the entire church.  It seems Davey is is having cash flow problems.  Many of those that pledged to fund his monument to himself have not anted up with any money and Davey is not happy!

I have heard similar stories from another reader here about people that have contacted him.  There are issues going on in Packland that Davey is not able to control.  People are talking outside the group to others.  Davey's stranglehold on his members is starting to break.

According to sources within RCG, David C. Pack had called a fast for this past Sabbath weekend. She, the member who provided us with this information, said some of those who pledged money for Pack’s personal shrine in Wadsworth haven’t ponied up the cash as promised. Much in the way of browbeating and guilt trips was expected.

And information keeps on coming in. Pack will not leave 2013 unscathed. This is our promise. And based on things we’ve been told, we expect RCG to experience a financial crisis before its campus is complete. And similar to how PCG couldn’t come up with the $7 million pledged by its members for its auditorium, we expect Pack to come up short as well because he’s all bluster and very little substance.  Pack pray and fast we need cash

42 comments:

Anonymous said...

This alleged report wouldn't surprise me one bit. This isn't the 1970s. This is the information age, and it doesn't matter or make a difference how strong a "minister" wants to control his members, I can tell you this - if something is going on that flips the switch on a member's spidey sense, it's going to get out.

What seems to be important, in my opinion, to Pack and Company is materialism. If one wants to say that is following the "grand pattern of Herbert Armstrong", that would absolutely be the case. And what seems to me to be important to Pack is building his world headquarters complex, and it seems to me that the thinking is it needs to be built at any and at all cost, regardless of how it affects the lives of the families that have entrusted that ministry to their spiritual care. It wasn't that long ago that Pack made that clarion call sermon. If you forgot that horrific blast of ugh, here it is:

http://www.exitsupportnetwork.com/artcls/clarion.htm

Liquidate assets. Put your money where your mouth is. Give them to the work.

"I have the moral and spiritual authority and ecclesiastical authority to tell you to do what I've already done! "

I want to vomit just reading that stench. Read the rest if you want to, I couldn't. I don't feel a bit sad that there seems to be an alleged problem with cash flow. If RCG members wise up, they will no doubt have their eyes opened to see exactly what is happening and why. The members do not need to fast for Pack. He allegedly got himself in this reported mess, and now it seems that you are apparently somehow responsible. Members need to get out, get a good psychologist, and heal, rebuild their savings and income, and most importantly, rebuild their families and leave Pack with his "massive" world headquarters complex to fund it by his own self.

RCG members - What is important is love, family, hope, faith, righteousness, peace and joy - NOT a building complex. Remember - store up treasures with God, not treasures on earth that rot and destroy and eventually fade to nothing. There are much more important things then a ridiculous complex of administrative buildings that YOU are paying out of your teeth for, to fulfill his dreams and his vision. Take care of your families, your wives, your husbands, your kids, rebuild and regain, have hope again. Just ask yourself this: Does he, to you, YOU - care about YOU and your family, or his building complex - which does he care for more? In your opinion, Honestly??

Anonymous said...

Pack is in competition with all the other groups...To him he is still in a swimming meet or basketball game. He can't stop being a stupid jock. I saw this years ago with him. He is a Johnny come lately..Gerald Flurry. All they care about is themselves and their projects/works of men. He will always have his loyalists and unfortunately many leave PCG and go right to RCG. Been there, done that.

DennisCDiehl said...

The whole project reflects a long gone mindset and the previous comment is spot on.

Common sense, to me, would tell a one man show of today to not build a campus in northeast Ohio in a state that is practically in a depression in an area that is.

Even the Jerry Lewis Telethon and NPR Pledge Week realizes that a large proportion of pledges are never actually sent in. There is pressure emotionally at a specific time to do so and then reality comes.

The Internet is and will forever more be the bane and demise of such people who bully and bluster as if they weren't being watched and heard outside their captured brethren.

I predict a work stoppage or downgrade and relationship problems. While I have never done a public miracle, don't come from a ministerial family, have a secular job, not trained in formal theology and Biblical studies and my credentials are swoozy and shallow , according to the world :)and sometimes am not right in my predictions, can I be a prophet anyway?

I would like the income and being considered more special than others.

Oh...and IMHO, the church calls a fast to distract and shift the issue onto God and the people. Everytime there was a fast in the past, it was because of something that needed to be distracted from and blame or facing the real problem was being needing to be shifted. It is so much more ego friendly to the Guru to call a fast tn to answer the hard questions such as "who realy made you an Apostle?" "Why do YOU (not we) need this expensive facility?" or "Do you have any accountability in all these decisions you make?"

Anonymous said...

My mother attends this church, again. It cost her a marriage first time around and she dropped out for awhile, now she’s back and more miserable than ever. I wish she would be able to just leave before she becomes so depressed that something bad happens. It’s strange actually, she keeps going but given any little excuse, like bad roads, she calls the minister and asks for permission not to come, like a little kid at school. She’s about broke but still gives the money. She tells me stories about the other women who go there without their husbands, how those marriages are starting to fail. Mr. Pack likes it when the single ladys wear pretty clothes, fix there hair up, and smell good, mom says he stares at them. I wonder if he wants to have sex with them. Nice guy, nice church. I never heard of such a church. I thought churches helped familys and communities. Not this one. This one helps itself.

Anonymous said...

Dang!
If God wanted the RCG to have more $, wouldn't He just "make it happen"?

BTW, when I read, "Davey", it makes me think of the old Davey and Goliath cartoon where Goliath is always saying, "Dayyy-vey!" in a goofy voice.

Norm

Anonymous said...

Oops, I wrote, "PCG", when it should have been, "RCG"

Norm

Anonymous said...

Oops, I DID write, "RCG", after all, lol!

Norm

Anonymous said...

Anonymous wrote: "My mother attends this church, again. It cost her a marriage first time around and she dropped out for awhile, now she’s back and more miserable than ever."


Anon, I see these poisonous COG spin-offs analogous to drug dealers, both having no conscience whatsoever when it comes to the life-destroying results their "product" causes among their followers. These HWA wannabe's realize MANY ex-WCGer's have become literally hooked on the religion, and they're there to eagerly satisfy the craving. I know what this feels like. Such folks allow the guilt trip the leaders regularly trigger in their followers (such as Dave's recent fast proclamation) to "inspire" them to send in money they can't really afford to support building projects that are mere monuments to human ego and delusion, which are then eventually sold to others once the whole operation collapses. Yet most of the membership are simply too dull and unthinking to see what's actually happening, much like an emaciated, needle-ravaged narcotics junkie. It has happened to HWA's "Work" and will in time happen to Flurry's little empire, as well as Pack's. But still, notice how there is NEVER a shortage of new self-proclaimed apostles and prophets being raised up from among HWA's followers to continue "the Work." It's a tragic spectacle, but as long as a brisk market exists for such lunacy, their will always be plenty of suppliers to provide the mind-destroying product.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous wrote:

"My mother attends this church, again. It cost her a marriage first time around and she dropped out for awhile, now she’s back and more miserable than ever. I wish she would be able to just leave before she becomes so depressed that something bad happens. It’s strange actually, she keeps going but given any little excuse, like bad roads, she calls the minister and asks for permission not to come, like a little kid at school. She’s about broke but still gives the money. She tells me stories about the other women who go there without their husbands, how those marriages are starting to fail. Mr. Pack likes it when the single ladys wear pretty clothes, fix there hair up, and smell good, mom says he stares at them. I wonder if he wants to have sex with them. Nice guy, nice church. I never heard of such a church. I thought churches helped familys and communities. Not this one. This one helps itself. "

First of all, I'm very sorry your mom got caught up in Dave Pack's "Church". I hope sincerely that she can escape, get help with a quality psychologist, move on and get happy once again. It hurts me to read your account, and there are so many like yours.

Dave Pack loves to boast about the fruits of his church. He will usually cite growth, statistics, percentages, and business statistics. But look at the reports such as this coming out of his church. Reports that talk about Depression. Being miserable. Reports that talk about Marriages that are failing. If true, and I am not doubting your story, These are the TRUE fruits of his "ministry" that he won't talk about in his yearly letters. Letters like you send in are the reason why we report so much on these tiny groups, because what always happens over and over again in the "churches of God" is what you have reported. People go broke to build massive buildings, people get depressed, and end up living miserable lives, and that's putting it mildly.

I hope you can get your mom out of this and get her to overcome the pain and live her life free again. As for Dave, I am confident there will be a day when he will be in judgement before God for each and every life that his church has ruined. My thoughts are fully with you.

Anonymous said...

Anon wrote:

" I thought churches helped familys and communities. Not this one. This one helps itself. "

A true fact common among Armstrongism. A very, very true fact. They will turn their heads when their brothers and sisters of society have a disaster, or are in need, (but they'll sure write about it!) but they will do everything they can to build their own exalting structures and programs. Very astute and sad observation, and you are SO correct.

Anonymous said...

From what I understand, Davy-Poo, in your self-appointed and self-proclaimed role of God's Apostle to the 21st century, you pay yourself $125,000 per year, and live in a luxurious house in a nice part of town, just a couple of miles away from your new HQ.

So right now it appears that your bank account may almost be as swelled up as your self-exalting ego. But just a reminder: your gravy train won't last forever. And it just may end a lot sooner than you think.

Douglas Becker said...

How about... you fast in sorrow to humble yourself to draw close to God so He doesn't destroy you for committing idolatry for following a man.

Or you could just leave this false prophet liar and skip the fast.

Douglas Becker said...

One thing is certain, the Churches of God will never run short of mental disorders.

Anonymous said...

Dave has been quoted as saying intimidating things like "Everyone who has challenged me has either died, been seriously injured, or has been eliminated from the Work" - and has apparently made the assertion that "God backs me even if I am wrong."

Oh really, Dave? We'll just have to see about that now won't we?

Anonymous said...

"One thing is certain, the Churches of God will never run short of mental disorders."

The churches of God ATTRACTED those with mental disorders, so it would seem!

I can't even tell you in my time at WCG how many weird, strange, offbeat, eclectic, just...WEIRD people attended. And the things they talked about! These people were there, I think, because it was the only way they could really feel powerful about ANYTHING. The message is very attractive, just go to church, follow the rules, pay money and you have bought yourself a ticket in the FIRST RESURRECTION! You get to rule and reign with God and Christ and you get a town, a city, a state, a nation, maybe, just maybe, your very own PLANET to rule as a God Being. But first, on Earth, you have to prove yourself as a strong ruler to your family, a strong ruler to your kids, a loyal member of the church, and an obedient one to the ministry. IF you qualify and do all these things, you get a throne! Woohoo! And all this time the "mental" situations you wrote that the Churches of God have just hang there and blend in with everyone else, while all the "RULERS" rule with an iron fist and a rod of iron.

Anonymous said...

My experience in the WCG was that in it I met some of the finest, most decent folk I've ever known in my life - and some of the most unbalanced, ego-driven monstrosities I've ever had the misfortune to have meet. So it wasn't all one thing or all the other, but a mixture of the two, and many laying somewhere in between on the spectrum. Though I will admit that I noted a very sizable percentage of them where people I very strongly sensed were suffering to varying degrees from undiagnosed mental problems. The higher-than-normal suicide rate among them was a fairly indicative sign of this general observation.

Allen C. Dexter said...

Times and circumstances have changed. I remember the world in which HWA was able to grow his work with a unique broadcast on a medium so many families gathered around every evening. Once he grabbed their attention and imaginations, he had them, and they numbered in the thousands.
Things grew at a furious rate, 30% every year for many, many years.

It's a fractured world now. One family memeber watches TV while another is tweeting, facebooking, etc. Families hardly sit down together for dinner anymore, and the old ubiquitous radio hardly ever gets turned on, usually only for background.

The internet doesn't help. Anyone can have a blog, but how many will even notice it among the plethora of other blogs?

The days of a mesmerizing saleman grabbing widespread gullible sycophants cheaply by mass broadcasting are over. These wannabes are doomed to failure. They have no chance of being another Herb. The addicts who cling to the old illusion and dream of the glory days returning are slowly dying off, and so will these grandiose schemes or recapturing past COG glory.

It's over, boys. Come down off your clouds and face reality.

Anonymous said...

But it does appear, Allen, that the latter day HWA's can indeed gather enough folks around them to fund their ministries. It's happening all around us, at relatively large scales as well as the very small ones. I agree, not on the level that HWA did it during the days of radio, that's perfectly true. But as P.T. Barnum once said, "There's a sucker born every minute" - and COG leaders will always find ways of reaching out to them and recruiting such for their self-centered ends. As long as there is a demand for fantasy-based delusions, there will always be those unscrupulous religious entrepreneurs willing to supply it by what ever means they can find.

Anonymous said...

Oh, it's really very simple. If you have ten members who tithe 10% of their income and they are reasonably wealthy, and you can keep them you have yourself set for life. That's the sad truth. No, it's nothing like Armstrong's 140,000 members and millions of dollars, but just ten members tithing ten percent equals a full salary. This would explain why so many small group leaders don't really care about being another HWA, I think...

Allen C. Dexter said...

I agree, Anon, whoever you really are, that some of these con artists will succeed in staying around because suckers are all too plentiful. Some of these mega-church phenoms do find ways to build impressive organizations and rake in millions.

I seriously doubt that any of these HWA wannabes are going to pull it off though. I'll be very surprised if they do.

Douglas Becker said...

It isn't clear whether the WCG and the CoHA nanocults attracted people with mental disorders or whether they attracted people with mental disorders and went on to create even more people with mental disorders.

The whole experience of "The Lucifer Effect" of the Princeton Experiment made famous by Philip Zimbardo seems to be the framework of the WCG: Put people in charge to control the rest of the available population to "keep order", supposedly with the caveat that were to do no physical harm, but, since the end justified the means of the guards over the prisoners, the situation became so ugly the experiment couldn't even last the two weeks it was supposed to run. For what it was supposed to produce, the experiment was a failure, yet, in discovering a basic truth about human beings, it was a success.

The results of the experiment are quite reproducible: "Moral Mazes" by Robert Jackall demonstrates it in the Corporate environment and that is why the life of people in corporations today get to be so ugly. Surveys show that Dish Network is a terrible place to work and the people there have undergone a transformation -- one which was necessary at long hours and low pay to keep a billionaire rich. Governments have adopted the worst of the corporate model and so has the Church Corporate.

Being that Herbert Armstrong was an integral part of the 19th Century Corporate model, he brought the same evils of the Lucifer Effect with him: Ministers put in charge of people with no real accountability, given the task to make them comply in and end justifies the mean ethic venue and leaving the people subject to horrible oppression at the mercy of the ministers ruling over them.

So now, this is just another example of an ego driven despot following the same pattern once again of the Philip Zimbardo Princeton Prison Experiment with the same constraints and the same fruit.

It should be noted that though any of the "prisoners" of the Lucifer Effect could have walked away at any time, they just didn't choose to do so.

And so it is to this day, the same thing is true, whether we speak of RCG, PCG, CCG, PKG: The "prisoners" continue to suffer because they think they are supposed to, instead of escaping.

Anonymous said...

The reason why they do not escape is fear.

They have been brainwashed to believe that the moment they leave the "Church" that they are going to:

1) Lose God's protection over their lives
2) Succumb to spritual or physical illness
3) Lose all their friends that they know, since all their friends are in the Church for the most part
4) Lose their eternal salvation, permanently
5) Find themselves in the lake of fire to suffer an agonizing death
6) Cease to exist forever and ever, for all eternity.

Fear. They suffer because they have bought into Armstrongism so thoroughly that fear keeps them grounded inside the buildings. Though they are totally free to walk out, it's fear that keeps them inside. The reasons why they fear are not legitimate, they have just incorporated it into the reality. I wish they could hear of those who have walked out and what has really happened to them, not what "ministers" have said has happened to them as a methedology of control.

Byker Bob said...

We should all hope and pray that the Gamaliel syndrome comes into full bloom at the horribly misnamed RCG in 2013. And, let's not forget the other extremists at PCG.

Regarding pledges, I am certain that people who in their own minds have become prophets and apostles would expect their members who made pledges to assign a higher priority to the pledges than the purchase of their food, or the paying of their rent. I'd expect them to be shocked, even as they prepare sermons invoking the image of Annanias and Saphira, whom Peter accused of lying to the Holy Spirit. Of course, we all know that you can't lie to an "it" or a force, but that's the way they see things.

BB

DennisCDiehl said...

I'd like to know who loaned the money (Bank?) to even start this bound to tank enterprize? Was it member contributions only which now have dried up? Or was there some banker who didn' actually do his homework giving such unstable and small organization such a loan?

Also, if Dave really thinks Jesus is coming in his lifetime, this belies his real feelings and needs to know that after he is gone, the place will turn into a strip club or Summer camp for survivors of religious abuse.

DennisCDiehl said...

Well, at least I believe this explains the ONLY reasons Dave hasn't gotten in touch with the details, date etc of our debate. He's too weak from fasting too broke to pay for my meals or motel.

We'll work it out when the income rises during the Spring Holydays and the new campus opens in Summer.

I can be patient

DennisCDiehl said...

Now I understand why Dave can't debate me at this time. He's broke, has no finished building to meet in and pretty hungry.

I can wait til Spring when the Holyday offerings become awesome and stupendous.

PS I have wondered how many times you can ask people to send it all in? I mean the Clarion Call was pretty draining.

Painful Truth said...

"All systems of control, inanimate institutions or dictatorial men, displace human evolution with mental illness."

-Reed Kinney

http://decentralizationblog.wordpress.com/

Byker Bob said...

He would have been far better off keeping the healthfood store that he bragged about being a million dollar business, and using the profits to help bankroll his ministry. Had he done so, at least we could give him credit for thinking outside of HWA's marketing box.

It'd be much better to be recognized as a healthfoods guru or naturopath than some sort of ridiculous charlatan. Seems as if both Dave and Bob have put something relatively solid on the back burner in favor of seeking fame and recognition. Kind of reminds me of that classic Little Golden Book about the woman and the shoe.

BB

Sweetblood777 said...

Recently Pack released information that consisted of statistics of his works.

He called them fruits; but they are no such thing. Fruits consist of the things of the Spirit, not carnal statistics of how many of this or that, that his organization produced.

The scripture that talks about looking at their wonderful works and then Christ telling them to depart from Him, certainly pictures the future for Pack, Flurry, and the other thieves living in this world.

Anonymous said...

I hope no one signed a pledge card. Those can be considered contracts, obligating the person to pay up.

Anonymous said...

At Big Sandy, some member volunteers helped dig Lake Loma with their bare hands til their hands were raw and bleeding.

Davey needs to do the same.

-Norm

Anonymous said...

Anonymous Anonymous said...
I hope no one signed a pledge card. Those can be considered contracts, obligating the person to pay up.

And...Dave Pack is the kind of guy who would pursue to the ends of the earth for it...

Anonymous said...

Annonymous at 7:38 wrote:
"I hope no one signed a pledge card. Those can be considered contracts, obligating the person to pay up."

I hope you are not trying to imply that this would be a "legal contract" for a pledge card would not be considered as such.

There would have to be what is called "legal consideration" for such a deal to be enforceable. Pack is not offering anything that is considered of legal value to the pledger.

Joe Moeller
Cody , WY

Anonymous said...


Self-appointed religious dictators can make it sound like they were counting on their follower's promise of support and have now been greatly let down. The guilt will be spread on pretty thick. They can also make it sound like the person had practically sworn an oath to God about the matter by signing a pledge card.

Who would have ever thought that it would be necessary to build so many auditoriums (NOT temples) in the U.S.A. (NOT in Jerusalem, Israel) before the end could come?

Who would have ever thought that so many tithes, offerings, building funds, and fundraisers would never be enough, and that everyone would be asked to send in everything they have--and asked to do this over and over?

Who would have ever expected that a blessing like the biblical, weekly, seventh-day Sabbath of rest would be twisted into a demand to drive hundreds of miles in very cold weather to attend some little group's little meeting and listen to some wicked person who wants to break up marriages?

Who would have ever expected that the number of mentally ill and grossly immoral people in the COGs would greatly outnumber the relatively few decent people there?

Who would have ever expected that David Pack's claim that "Everyone who has challenged me has either died, been seriously injured, or has been eliminated from the Work" would also apply to everyone who had ever supported him too?

Anonymous said...

The Emperor has no clothes....Dave Pack is a fool and charlatan

Anonymous said...

Why not call a fast for the purpose of getting God to destoy all the mind control cults like those run by Pack,Merridith, Flurry and others. So that people would be free from these slave masters.

Anonymous said...

Why not call a fast for the purpose of getting God to destoy all the mind control cults like those run by Pack,Merridith, Flurry and others. So that people would be free from these slave masters.
Meredith already tried that, but it didn't work. He sent his people to fast before God for the destruction of all the other churches of God except his. Of course, he worded it more more slickly, and his cronies softened the reality with a follow-up letter, but the fact remains that if Meredith had gotten what he wanted, it would have meant the destruction of all the other churches of God.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous 10:55 AM wrote: "The reason why they do not escape is fear.

They have been brainwashed to believe that the moment they leave the "Church" that they are going to:

1) Lose God's protection over their lives
2) Succumb to spritual or physical illness
3) Lose all their friends that they know, since all their friends are in the Church for the most part
4) Lose their eternal salvation, permanently
5) Find themselves in the lake of fire to suffer an agonizing death
6) Cease to exist forever and ever, for all eternity.

Fear. They suffer because they have bought into Armstrongism so thoroughly that fear keeps them grounded inside the buildings. Though they are totally free to walk out, it's fear that keeps them inside. The reasons why they fear are not legitimate, they have just incorporated it into the reality. I wish they could hear of those who have walked out and what has really happened to them, not what "ministers" have said has happened to them as a methedology of control."
************************
Fear! "Good answer" as Steve Harvey often says on his game show of Family Feud.

Hebrews 2 tells about a fear that captures everyone to one degree or another:

Hebrews 2:14 "Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;"

15 "And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage."

To have any fear once in awhile is one thing, but to have to be subject to a fear, to that bondage, for a whole lifetime?

It's not something else and not something to be thrilled about!

John

Anonymous said...

What a strange kettle of fish. These charlatans fully embrace most of the geopolitical and social aspects of conservatism, but when it comes to financial matters they behave like the worst and most flagrant Democrats who ever lived!

Anonymous said...

I was a member and employee years ago and I just thought I would check in see what's going on. I am not surprised at Pack's behaviour. Just know this one thing he is only there because people still listen. What holds the top of a pyramid in place are the stones below it.

Anonymous said...

Len, I knew Pack years ago and he has only become sicker over time. He is in my opinion the great fallen one . A devil in a suit and hopefully will spend eternity in the bowels of hell.

Anonymous said...

But then , as he says, he learned at the foot of the great lord of the flies (Armstrong) so they should spend eternity together counting the destroyed families and their Steuben crystal gifts as Ambassadors to their self assigned Apostleships. What a deadly joke the dead apostle is as well as Pack the breating apostle of the lord of the flies.