Tuesday, January 15, 2013

World Tomorrow Men Will Rule, Women Not So Much If At All


Remember how we were taught the story on how when we are resurrected as gods that we would be rulers of worlds?  Remember HWA's power charts on leadership?

Here is a reminder.  Pay attention to HWA's wording at the end.  Women get the short shift again which was conveniently glossed over in all my years in the organization.  Have you ever noticed that Armstrongism is all about power?  Power over others by forced rule.  Law vs grace. Law vs freedom.

The strident law keepers on Yahoo are trotting this silliness out in order to prepare themselves to be world class rulers.

it becomes plain that Abraham will be given a greater position of authority in God’s Kingdom than David - and that he will be over both Israelites and Gentiles. He is “father” of Gentile converts as well as Israelites. It is plainly indicates that Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, will function as a team, with Abraham as chairman of the team, next under Christ in the coming world Government of God. Jesus Himself said, definitely, that Abraham, Isaac and Jacob shall be in that Kingdom (Luke 13:28 ). Joseph qualified in a special way, but we shall come back to him a little later.
under Christ as King of kings, and under Christ’s top team - will be Moses over all organized national and international government; and Elijah, over all organized church, religious and educational activity.

Apparently HWA saw nothing wrong with the fact that 2000 years have went by and humanity has increased in education and knowledge, yet Moses will be instructing the world how to run their governments according to the Egyptian style from 2,000+ years ago.  Elijah will be whipping churches and educational institutions into shape according to the methods of education 2,000+ years ago.  Since most were uneducated and illiterate, its sure going to make for an interesting world tomorrow!

King David, resurrected, immortal, under Moses, over all twelve nations of Israel. Jeremiah 30:9; Ezekiel 34:23-24; 37:24-25. Each of the original twelve apostles will be king, under David, over one of these then super-prosperous nations. Matthew 19:28. Under the apostles, each now king over a great nation, will be the rulers over districts, states, shires, counties or provinces, and over cities.
These will be the true COG members who qualified.  They treated people like crap all their lives, yet will be given cities to rule over.  Spare us please!

But what of all the Gentile nations? Who will be given top positions of rule over them? There is strong indication - not a definite, specific statement -but indication, according to principles and specific assignments that are revealed, that the Prophet Daniel will be made king over them all, directly under Moses
It seems evident, that Joseph will be made director of the world’s economy - its agriculture, its industry, its technology, and its commerce - as well as its money and monetary system. These systems will be on the international level, the same in every nation.

Joseph will be teaching the worlds economies how to function according to Egyptian desert life?

Job will be in charge of restoring the destroyed cities of the world.  Apparently this is because his entire family and household was destroyed and he had to rebuild it.  The lengths the Church went to "prove" this kind of malarkey is appalling!

Christ, Himself, will be ruling from Jerusalem. Stationed there with Christ, under immediate direction of Elijah, it is indicated, will be those changed to Spirit chosen by Christ to constitute the Headquarters Church. Revelation 3:12 indicates those of this " Philadelphia ” era will be pillars in that Headquarters Church. Next, in this all-important Headquarters Church organization, working with and directly under Elijah, it appears, will be the resurrected John the Baptist. He came “in the power and spirit of (Elijah)” Luke 1:17. Of him, Jesus said, “Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist ...” Matthew 11:11. He was the Elijah prophesied to come. Matthew 17:10 -13; and 11:7-11.
Jesus Christ is going to have his hands full if HQ leaders of the different COGs all converge on Jerusalem. The corruption, greed, back stabbing and outright criminal activity will make for one super colossal HQ!  Will  Jesus Christ be kept out of the loop like they did with HWA?


Someone may ask, “What about the women?” Yes, there were outstanding women- Sarah, Rebecca, Rachel. There were Miriam, Deborah, and others. Sarah is called the mother of righteous women in the New Testament I Peter 3:6. Deborah actually judged, or ruled  Israel for a time. Their status in the Kingdom will be the same as men. We would certainly suppose that women such as these will be given high position and great honor in the Kingdom. But we do not presume, in this present writing, to suggest what it shall be.
Poor, dumb women.  Its better to keep you barefoot and pregnant than to have you rule over the men of the church or the world.

Doesn't this stuff sound incredibly silly now that you are no longer part of the myths of Armstrongism?



27 comments:

Lake of Fire Church of God said...

No2HWA asked, “Doesn't this stuff sound incredibly silly now that you are no longer part of the myths of Armstrongism?”

MY COMMENT – YES! Reading the post reminded me of the 4 hour Gerald Waterhouse sermons we were subjected to as teenagers which contained the same mindless dribble speculating the role of Bible personalities in the Wonderful World of Tomorrow.

Richard

Anonymous said...

Eve will oversee rebellion

Cain will oversee contract killings

Aaron will oversee translating

Korah will oversee quality rebellion and earthquake safety

Absolom will over see horsemanship and barbering

Lepers will oversee hygiene

Lot will oversee father/daughter relations

Annianias and Sapphira will oversee contributions and leaving your stuff to the church

Judas will oversee investigations and rope manufacturing quality

Simon Magus will oversee expansive theology and circus tricks

HWA will oversee Steuben Crystal production

Dave Pack will oversee HWA

Ron Weinland will be in charge of taxes and litter control

Anonymous said...

Armstrongism is simply a collection of people constantly guessing - and usually wrong - over power, prophecy, doctrine, the millenium, and all things in their worldview of the future while completely ignoring people of the world as it is today, its its problems, and its challenges - and not willing to lift a finger to change it or a gumption of concern or care of its inhabitants except those called out by "God" to join their way of thinking. It is an utterly selfish, self centered, power seeking, unloving and lie-centered way of life that puts power and greed over love and grace.

Douglas Becker said...

No male or female (bond or free) in the Kingdom?

Could there be a disconnect here?

Head Usher said...

When HWA wasn't talking about the two trees and Satan "broadcasting" so that extra thoughts would magically pop into your mind that weren't yours, he was talking about "the government of god." I never understood why it was put in terms of a "government." It always made what was supposed to be paradise sound like the DMV.

But I think the reason why all the Lord High Mucky-Mucks always spoke of it in those terms was because they imagined, they WANTED to believe, that the power structure and hierarchy of the church would be lifted lock, stock, and barrel and re-instituted in the "kingdom." I'm sure Herbie knew he was spewing garbage, but the many suck-ups who were always trying to impress some "evanglist" or pastor so as to be allowed to be an usher so that eventually they might get "ordained" as a "deacon," so that eventually they might get to be a part of the elite "ministerial" club, they really bought into this idea.

I remember hearing at various times in sermons during my youth, that we were "in training" to learn to "submit to" and to learn how to be "a part of "the government of god." And so, part of the reason why WCG was so political and people were jockeying for position so hard, and stabbing each other in the back, and so forth, is because, I think they kind of believed that whatever position they managed to rise to in the church, that they would have that position FOREVERMORE, in the "next life," so, you better secure a lofty position, because you wouldn't want to be stuck being a nobody for all eternity, now would you.

And these speculative discussions such as in today's post are really part of the larger discussion, which really centers around, where in this hierarchy am I going to be? And how much respect am I going to get? And how many people am I going to be able to tell what to do? And how many cities/planets/galaxies/jobs am I going to get to rule?

Armstrongism is such a selfish religion.

Anonymous said...

Galatians 3:28 is what Douglas alluded to.

"There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus."

And all their harping about positions in the Kingdom proves they have NO clue what the Kingdom really is in Christianity. It's really very simple. Rom 14:17 says

"For the Kingdom of God is not a matter of what we eat or drink, but of living a life of goodness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit."

And that defines the MAIN difference between the doctrines of COGs and the doctrines of mainstream Christianity, and why their approaches and doctrines are so radically different.

Assistant Deacon said...

I started laughing and shaking my head practically the minute I started reading this post, and then kept laughing -- at times, out loud -- as I continued, right into some of these comments.

"Simon Magus will oversee expansive theology and circus tricks."

"I never understood why it was put in terms of a 'government.' It always made what was supposed to be paradise sound like the DMV."


My sides hurt. Good stuff, people.

Anonymous said...

Head Usher said:

"I remember hearing at various times in sermons during my youth, that we were "in training" to learn to "submit to" and to learn how to be "a part of "the government of god." And so, part of the reason why WCG was so political and people were jockeying for position so hard, and stabbing each other in the back, and so forth, is because, I think they kind of believed that whatever position they managed to rise to in the church, that they would have that position FOREVERMORE, in the "next life," so, you better secure a lofty position, because you wouldn't want to be stuck being a nobody for all eternity, now would you.

LOL! An eternity setting up chairs and making sure they are perfectly and completely straight in their groups, sticky-taping RESERVED FOR APOSTLES signs on the chairs, and setting up the back breaking solid-gold lectern in the New Jerusalem Bingo Hall. Yes, I understand it now!!!! :)

Byker Bob said...

I have to remember all of the futuristic GTA sermons in which an agrarian society was held up to be the ultimate model for the world tomorrow. Others prominent in that ministry seemed to think that humanity would once again be wearing God's type of clothing, ie robes and sandals. They even spoke of arranged marriages for those coming of age who had not been changed into spirit beings.

In mainstream Christianity, there is the concept of the dispensation. In other words, gradually, as humanity developed, God would reveal appropriate knowledge which took into account that growth. This type of theology recognizes the fact that God, his character, and his faithfulness never change, but God reacts appropriately in accordance with societal development. His approach with a bunch of goat herders would be as appropriately measured as His approach with a group of learned scientists at JPL.

WCG froze and limited God. They picked a set of values or historical coordinates, called them absolutes, and then proceded to limit God's behavior to those absolutes. IOW, one size fits all. It is simplistic, stupid, and most people of intelligence would find it insulting.

Finally, are there even going to be genders in the KoG? It seems inconceivable that a woman who was a profitable good steward with her talents would be the foot wipe for a man who stumbled around and did nothing with his. I don't believe God predestined that 50% of humanity would be eating crap for all of eternity simply based on gender. That is beyond absurd, especially since women are widely recognized as being the guardian of the values which are instilled in the next generation. What do the Armstrongites believe will be Mary's role? From a totally realistic and biblically based standpoint, it would be difficult to see her relegated to any non-leadership or subservient role.

When you get right down to it, Armstrong theology is not much different from Islam. It might have been advanced in the era BC, but is totally laughable today.

BB

Douglas Becker said...

Matthew 22:24-32

Let's face it folks, Herbert Armstrong had a narcissistic fetish over who was the most important, using the WCG as a giant cash machine so he could fulfill his lusts for photo-ops.

If there is to be a Kingdom, then God is Almighty and no one will much care what rank, if any, they have in some sort of dysfunctional Corporate god hierarchy.

Honestly.

Anonymous said...

HWA was a liar, which is what makes him so despicable. Sadly, people here are also lying by misrepresenting and twisting his views. Liars give the anti-COG movement a bad name and make it harder to get people out of the cults. Nice work assholes. HWA would love what you are doing.

Anonymous said...

I agree with you, Douglas.

When I first came into contact with the WCG as an eager, totally naive teenager, I, like many others, couldn't read enough of the literature. But one thing I noticed even at that young age was that there seemed to be an overemphasis placed on position and rank in many of the Church's writings. In HWA's own words, via his autobiography, he openly admitted that a driving motivation for him in his younger years was wanting status and to look important in the eyes of others. Frankly, I don't think he ever outgrew this nor overcame it - as it seemed to be the lens through which he viewed virtually everything. And very unfortunately, this had terrible long-range consequences in both the WCG and all the many offshoots that have sprung from it's ruins. Self-exaltation and grossly exaggerated self-importance seems THE principle motive of virtually ALL HWA wannabes that have arisen ever since.

Anonymous said...

And Anonymous 5:14, perhaps people would take your rambling comments and angry accusations a bit more seriously if you would slow down and think through a bit more carefully before spewing your rage onto your keyboard and impulsively hitting the "Publish Your Comment" button. Your comments routinely make little sense to me, and virtually always include the accusation of "liar" without specifying exactly why that charge is almost always used. Really, this gets a bit old after awhile - for while your various comments may use differing words, the same angry spirit of rage seems the driving force behind them all.

Lurker said...

And this is the crap that fills our sermon time instead of, say, the fruits of the spirit. So telling.

Assistant Deacon said...

How is Gary misrepresenting HWA's views. With exact quotes? I don't get it.

Sorry, Holier-Anon-Than-Us, you ain't spoiling my fun. This stuff is so bizarre it's funny. Get the corn cob out of your crabby butt and lighten up a little.

DennisCDiehl said...

"Someone may ask, “What about the women?” Yes, there were outstanding women- Sarah, Rebecca, Rachel. There were Miriam, Deborah"

I suspect these few women were high profile enough and personally independent and strong in their views, even in a Taliban society, the men did not know what to do with them, so they exhalted them to avoid problems.

The mythology of Genesis 2-3 is for express purpose of dethroning goddess worship in Israel/martiarchy and install patriarchy, priests, temples and bloody animal sacrifice as opposed to agricultural sacrifices (Cain vs Abel story) Women end up in the tale of being the fault of all sin and having to say "yes sir" to men and have babies painfully, as if it was a lark before.

:)

Anonymous said...

"His approach with a bunch of goat herders would be as appropriately measured as His approach with a group of learned scientists at JPL."

But for some reason he hasn't approached anyone in over 2,000 years. But if he were to approach a bunch o' learned scientists, he could rest assured that his existence would be confirmed and disseminated across the globe within a matter of months. There would no longer be any argument over his existence. Many would be saved.

But he won't. It's all part of the Big Plan. He desires acknowledgement but hides himself so cleverly that it appears that he doesn't even exist. His Ways are higher than ours....

Paul Ray

Anonymous said...

Head Usher said:
An eternity setting up chairs and making sure they are perfectly and completely straight in their groups

BTW, I think that Scientologists and EST-holes can set up rows of folding chairs even straighter than Herbologists can.

(Although Herbologist "assistant Deacons" can use their special flashlights to wave you in to your Feast parking spot like nobody's business!)

Norm


"I remember hearing at various times in sermons during my youth, that we were "in training" to learn to "submit to" and to learn how to be "a part of "the government of god." And so, part of the reason why WCG was so political and people were jockeying for position so hard, and stabbing each other in the back, and so forth, is because, I think they kind of believed that whatever position they managed to rise to in the church, that they would have that position FOREVERMORE, in the "next life," so, you better secure a lofty position, because you wouldn't want to be stuck being a nobody for all eternity, now would you.

LOL!

Anonymous said...

I cannot wait to jump into the Lake of Fire. The idea of working daily in a rice paddy in a Godly Reeducation Camp somewhere in Southeast Asia under the loving tutelage of a low ranking COG minister horrifies me.

Will we have to attend confession sessions like in "The Killing Fields?" Will we be given modern tools or have to use water buffalos and wooden implements?

Imagine sweating your ass off all day in a submerged rice paddy under the icy glare of a spirit being who constantly gives you low voltage Force Lightning shocks when you have an angry thought, or aren't singing with enough enthusiasm. The Kingdom of God will make Communist China, Russia, and Cambodia look like daycare.


Paul Ray

Anonymous said...

BB wrote, "When you get right down to it, Armstrong theology is not much different from Islam. It might have been advanced in the era BC, but is totally laughable today."

Bob, I have interacted with people of a variety of religions, mostly in business dealings.
Those of Islam I've interacted with, I have generally found to be of greater integrity than the Christians I've interacted with.

Perhaps it's just part of Satan's uber-tricky plan to have those Islamists with their "totally laughable" stuff appear to be ok, by behaving better than Christians.

-Norm

Anonymous said...

Byker Bob,

Please share how you find Armstrong's theology like that of Islam.
Thanks.

Norm

Byker Bob said...

I already did, Norm. I'm certain you can probably even add some similarities yourself.

I, too, have experience with Arabs and Muslims. After about 1980, you couldn't live in Southern California without having almost daily contact with them. They have one of the same challenges as is faced by Italians. The existence of jihadist terrorists and the Mafia stigmatizes each group in its own way, and often keeps the general public from trusting and embracing the general population of each.

Basically, the people I find it easiest to get along with are those who moderate and balanced. Any strength practiced to extreme becomes a weakness. Fanatics of all types are difficult to deal with.

BB

Assistant Deacon said...

Hey Norm, get it right.

We Assistant Deacons don't "wave" anybody into parking spaces. We DIRECT them. And they'd better go, too, because our armbands give us tremendous, albeit temporary, eight-day-long POWER.

Sieg Heil!

Anonymous said...

Byker Bob,

Myself, I see more similarity between Christianity and Islam than I do between Armstrongism and Islam.

What caught my eye in what you wrote was your assertion that Islam is, "totally laughable today"

Personally, I cringe a bit when I hear an adherent of one major religion reject another major religion and call it, "totally laughable"
It's the stuff wars are made of, although I realize you are not averse to that, since you stated that you hoped the USA would respond to the 9-11 attacks with nuclear weapons.

It's my view that it would be better for American Christianity to clean up it's own act before attacking other major religions.

Norm

Anonymous said...

You know, the bottom line here is that every religion/ideology/philosophy has its share of intolerant fanatics, as well as its high-class, well-educated, solid examples of decent humanity among them, with the rest falling somewhere on a continuum in between these two poles.

Just look at the incredibly violent and bloody history of religion - Christianity or Islam, take your pick. Both have plenty to be ashamed of, with some good, life-promoting deeds thrown in among all the death and destruction.

“Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction.” — Blaise Pascal

Anonymous said...

You know, the bottom line here is that every religion/ideology/philosophy has its share of intolerant fanatics, as well as its high-class, well-educated, solid examples of decent humanity among them, with the rest falling somewhere on a continuum in between these two poles.

Just look at the incredibly violent and bloody history of religion - Christianity or Islam, take your pick. Both have plenty to be ashamed of, with some good, life-promoting deeds thrown in among all the death and destruction.

“Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction.” — Blaise Pascal

Byker Bob said...

Norm,

Christians have oft given imperfect or flawed testimony, and have also set hypocritical examples. There was an international event about 3-4 years ago called Reign Down USA, the purpose of which was to promote repentence within the Christian community, so that better testimony could be given, and a better example set. As someone who had been very critical of Christian hypocrisy in the past, I felt it was important that I participate in and support this event, lest I find myself in a glass house.

I believe that in diverse groups, there will always be subsets which draw comparison with subsets of other groups. I don't find too much difference between the types of Christians who would bomb abortion clinics or limit womens' rights and the extremists in the Islamic community. And, God forbid if we ever have another "Christian jihad" similar to what happened in the crusades and inquisition.

Regarding nuking the terrorists, I believe that the only way you can truly win a war is to bring on total capitulation. That is how we won WWII, and all other successful wars, if indeed you can classify a war as successful. Total capitulation was the ingredient missing in Korea, Viet Nam, and the first Gulf war. Unfortunately, we've got too many bleeding hearts these days, and we concede to them to our own destruction. Enemies are clever, and have discovered how easily they can utilize our system against itself. The Commies did it well, and the terrorists have certainly expanded upon what they learned from that example.

BB