It has always been vitally important in the Churches of God that Adam and Eve, Jesus, and all the rest of the biblical characters be lily white in complexion. How else can you substantiate the myth of British Israelism.
For many decades interracial marriage was prohibited in the Church of God. Blacks and whites did not mix freely in worship services and black members were relegated to one or two Feast sites. People wanting to join the church had their marriages broken up if they were of different races. Blacks could not dance with whites at church dances. Particularly if it was a black man and a white woman. Tongues really started wagging then!
Various Armstrongite splinter groups decry the interracial marriage change in the church. E.W. King is one of these.
E. W. King says that Noah was the most pure white man ever. 100% white, in intermarriage in that genetic strain! No sirree!
It could only be eating improper food, drinking excessively of alcoholic drinks, revelings (Gal. 5:21), rioting, violence. Marrying, to be evil, had to be as in Genesis 6:2, when men "took them wives of all which they chose." There was rampant and universal interracial marriage--so exceedingly universal that Noah, only, was unblemished or perfect in his generations--his ancestry. He was of the original white strain.
King wants you to know that white is the chosen race but but yet is not superior?
It is amply evident that by the time of Noah there were at least the three primary or major racial strains on earth, the white, yellow and black, although interracial marriage produced many racial mixtures.
God does not reveal in the Bible the precise origin of the different races. It is evident that Adam and Eve were created white. God's chosen nation Israel was white. Jesus was white. But it is a fair conjecture that in mother Eve were created ovaries containing the yellow and black genes, as well as white, so that some of the children of Adam and Eve gave rise to black, yellow, as well as white.
The one man God chose to PRESERVE the human race alive after the Flood was perfect in his generations--all his ancestry back to Adam was of the one strain, and undoubtedly that happened to be white--not that white is in any sense superior.
Interbreeding and intermarriage is the same in Kings eyes. It dilutes and corrupts the pure race.
If you are a livestock breeder, planning to enter your prize animals in a livestock show--perhaps at a state or county fair--you will be sure to enter only thoroughbred or pedigreed stock! Mixing the breed alters the characteristics.It is still the fervent desire of many Armstrongite groups that in their fantasy world tomorrow that the black races will all be shipped back to Africa where they will live together and the whites will stay in the U.S., England, New Zealand, Canada and a few other choice locations.
32 comments:
This is ludicrous. They look to the Jews as being ultimate preservationists, having remained a distinct group which has not forgotten all of the oracles, and yet so many Jews with pure lineage resemble Arabs, Italians, Greeks, etc. That's why Peter Falk was able to convincingly play the part of an Italian detective known as Columbo. Wonder what EW thinks of Sephardic Jews?
The mother of Manasseh and Ephraim was Egyptian. In biblical terms, Egyptian means Egyptian. Had she been a "white" immigrant who had been raised as an Egyptian, she probably would have been described in much the same way as was Moses. And, incidentally, the language used in the Bible leaves no doubt as to the color of Moses' wife!
Back in the 1950's, when rock n roll was being born, often black artists such as Little Richard would release a song, only to find their grammar, inflexion, and choice of words cleaned up, with the song then being rereleased for white audiences by artists such as Pat Boone. That was insulting, but after all, it was only entertainment. God created the races, giving them their natural talents, strengths, and abilities. He is and was the God of all of His children. For a church group to offer up a "cover" version of Christianity for white people is as insulting towards God as it is to people of color. Bad, bad, bad false teacher! Go to your room EW King, and take your mentor HWA with you!
BB
Dumbass notes:
"God does not reveal in the Bible the precise origin of the different races."
That's because those of the day had no clue where races came from
"It is evident that Adam and Eve were created white. God's chosen nation Israel was white."
Adam and Eve were mythological middle eastern constructs. They would have been perceived as Middle Eastern in skin tone. However, they did not exist and were not Swedish with low melanin needs
"Jesus was white."
Any Jesus would have resembled modern day Palestinians
"But it is a fair conjecture that in mother Eve were created ovaries containing the yellow and black genes, as well as white, so that some of the children of Adam and Eve gave rise to black, yellow, as well as white."
It is not a fair conjecture. It is stupid and ignorant opinion that makes no sense in reality.
Skin tone is a function of exposure to UV light. Melanin darkens those closer to the equator to protect them from too much UV light. Melanin is less as you head north so as to allow more Vitimin D into the system to keep bones from falling apart.
EW..You are pure 100% stupid
ALWAYS looking to the physical and neglecting what really matters. This is what disgusts me! These words seem to me to be from the pits of ignorance.
It does not, and should not, matter one iota about skin color to anyone who calls themselves a Christian. How much does "ALL are one in Christ" matter? And if according to E.W. "...not that white is in any sense superior. " then why bring it up? What is the point? You are just making yourself look like an idiot. If it's to somehow support British Israelism, that's hogwash because that theory has been completely and scientifically disproven. It's like believing the earth is flat when the Earth has been proven to be round. If it's to support that God somehow likes or chooses or constructs "whites" better then any other skin tone, then read your Bible, EW, God makes no preference whatsover based on the color of one's skin. "One Body, One Spirit, One Lord, and One Faith." "Jew, or Gentile, Slave, or Free." Your ill educated blabbering is insulting to Christianity, and everyone who has grown and learned enough to understand that there is absolutely no room for the kind of absolute garbage you speak of, as most of us have grown to love and accept ALL peoples as one, which is exactly what Christ would have us do. Grow up and quit living in the stone ages - your teachings are in my honest opinion at the best completely incorrect and at worst in my opinion absolute, putrid, repugnant garbage from centuries past in a time of absolute stupidity and ignorance. We've outgrown the shame of our past. Catch up. Start LOVING people as you would have yourself be loved and quit worrying about what humans were what and when when it comes to this. If you do that, maybe you'll start to get it.
If you could get the HWAcaca pies to rethink just one stupid thing like the sanctity of the whiteness, or the eternal subservience of women, you might could get them on a new path of enlightenment, one on which they also realized the ridiculousness of British Israelism, or questioned whether quasi-spiritual figures such as apostles, prophets, or the many "two" witnesses exist among their ranks and possess God-given authority over them.
~Miguel de la Rodente
Wow! Some people just don't know when to keep their big fat mouths shut.
Let me see if I can understand what he's trying to say here:
1) Mankind started off "perfect," and, by a remarkable coincidence, their skin also started off "white."
2) Doing "evil" (ie, drunkenness & rioting) invariably leads to another "evil," "interbreeding," which causes "perfect" people's skin color to change.
3) In order to still be "perfect" your skin has to still be "white."
4) "Black" and "yellow" people are already not "perfect," so "interbreeding" by those people probably doesn't matter at this point.
5) god can only choose "perfect" people, so all of god's "chosen" people are always "white."
6) The color of your skin is your most important "characteristic." god can tell everything he needs to know about you by your skin color.
7) "Interbreeding" of the "white" race with "black" or "yellow" races "alters" the "perfect" "characteristics" of the "chosen" race.
8) But, none of THAT should be taken to mean that "white" people are in any way "superior."
Okay, okay. I know what you're all thinking, but, EXCEPT for points 1-7, how does this make him a racist? He said white people aren't superior. Weren't you paying attention?
Er Mah Ferkin Gerd! E.W.W.W.W. has really outdone himself this time. Can you get any more dumbass than this? Is it even possible?
No2HWA said, "Blacks and whites did not mix freely in worship services and black members were relegated to one or two Feast sites."
MY COMMENT - This is true statement describing the Radio Church of God in which my family began attending in the 1960s. Only a couple of Feast sites were designated for destination of "the Negro brethren". A whole segregated congregation in Chicago was established and known as "The Chicago Church (Negro)" pastored by Harold Jackson.
Let's face it - it took a helluva lot of guts to be black and a member of the Radio/Wordwide Church of God in the 1960s.
Richard
I'd just love to be at the pearly gates as the Armstrongite preachers arrive:
St. Peter: "Why Mr. Armstrong! I assume you want to meet your new boss?"
HWA: "No, I understand that I will be reporting directly to Jesus Christ!"
St Peter: "Why Herbert! Do I perceive a little remnant ego there? Didn't you read what Jesus told the mother of James and John whom Jesus playfully called the "Boanerges?"
HWA (flapping his immense jowls) "Harrumph! Of course I did! That's just basic theology. But, how does this apply to me?"
St. Peter: "Well, think of the kingdom as continuing studies. You are here to continue to learn and to grow. You know, Jesus during the time when He walked the earth never made any distinction amongst the different races! In fact, he and the disciples defied the elitist customs of the Pharisees as well as some of the entrenched cultural customs from the Old Covenant. They preached to, counselled, and healed people regardless of gender, race, or original beliefs!"
HWA: "Yes, but God's white people were the chosen ones, and were prophesied to be the kingly, priestly ones in the Kingdom."
St. Peter: "Herbert, you just don't get basic New Covenant Christianity, do you? There is no longer any difference between Jew and Gentile. Salvation has been opened to everyone alike! Now, we had a meeting to discuss your immediate future here in the Kingdom. Frankly, you should be very grateful that you made it here at all! We have carefully considered your future, your job here, and your continuing education. If you look to your left, you will see your new supervisor, Dr. Martin Luther King! You will learn a great deal from Dr. King. You can't imagine the intensity of his experiences during his lifetime on planet earth! Godspeed, Herbert!
LOL!
BB
Byker Bob, Dr. King may have had some interesting insights into the times he lived, and a lot of courage, but he didn't exactly have the most spotless personal life. This has now been acknowledged by many of his aides, and something the FBI knew very well when he was alive. So perhaps using him is not the very best example for your futuristic scenario. Both MLK and HWA may both end up in need of some serious remedial education!
Armstrongism = insanity.
Kingass says:
"God does not reveal in the Bible the precise origin of the different races....
It is evident that Adam and Eve were created white"
These two statements go together like oil and water. While God is not precise Kingass can be. It is hardly "evident" Mr. King and you are a liar and lousy science and anthropology student.
While entertaining, I have personally come to resent and despise ignorant fools as yourself because you perpetuate bullshit
Umm, King is just quoting Mystery of the Ages, almost word for word.
Here's the page from MOA:
http://cog-ff.com/site/cog_archives/books/Mystery%20of%20the%20Ages/css/Mystery%20of%20the%20Ages_86.htm
I remember once reading about a racist Christian Identity preacher who said that the Great Flood occurred because of racial intermarriage.
HWA said exactly the same thing in Mystery of the Ages.
For those who don't know Christian Identity is a virulently racist offshoot of British Israelism. BI, although completely inaccurate, did not originally bear a terrible hatred against Jews, that came later.
Let me also say, Love the link to Black Art Depot. The perfect antidote to the racist Armstrongite rubbish about white supremacy and all that repulsive stuff.
Here Mr. King....educate yourself.
http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/KILLINGJESUSFAMILY.php
LOL!
Some people are still in the dark ages.
(Or, is that "The White Ages"?)
It's shades of Hitler.
It's shades of Herbie.
It's shades of Mormonism.
It's shades of many mainstream Christian teachings.
It's shades of so many other Christian "Holy-Spirit-inspired" teachings.
Gak.
-Norm
"God created the races..."
No he didn't. Humanity evolved, Bob. We have scientific explanations for such things now- you no longer need to subscribe to fairy tales.
Paul Ray
Correction Paul, you have scientific THEORIES. Scientific explanations such as the origins of race, humanity, evolution, are theories that are widely accepted and taught and accepted as fact. Those who believe God is real believe God is real with their whole mind and heart because their lifelong experiences, situations, and yes, personal interventions that have confirmed this to them. though you may regard anything spiritual in origin as a fairy tale, and those who believe what they do as succombing to a mental delusion, arguing the issue is completely moot. Might I suggest you don't proclaim theories as facts at the very least, and it might be a thought, Paul, to at least show just a tad of at least acknowledgement maybe to those who do have a belief in spirituality and christian theology, no matter how staunch your rejection of spirituality, instead of boasting theories as complete fact when they are not.
Paul, you have scientific THEORIES. Scientific explanations such as the origins of race, humanity, evolution, are theories that are widely accepted and taught and accepted as fact. Those who believe God is real believe God is real with their whole mind and heart because their lifelong experiences, situations, and yes, personal interventions that have confirmed this to them. though you may regard anything spiritual in origin as a fairy tale,
Excellent! It's exactly what Muslins say about their God.
I remember being raised a Baptist and those folks believed that black people would go to heaven but would be servants to white people "UP there". Down here in Arkansas, not much has changed in those 50 years since then either.
The sad aspect to Armstrongism is that its proponents are obsessed with legalism, and therefore don't have any time to really indulge in the great commission.
If these people knew the systematic and strategic approaches that various Christian ministries are taking in impacting the cultures, health, safety, and welfare of communities in third world countries (and in the USA), their minds would be totally boggled. When you look at the game plans of people like John Maxwell (Equipministry), and the efforts of people to translate and smuggle Bibles into just plain hostile, tribal, or totalitarian environments, you really have to marvel at the creativity and courage involved. Nobody in the ACOGs would go to such risk. They trust their beloved cop-out (second resurrection).
But, keep it up EW! Gotta preserve all of that Armstrong inanity, even if it isn't doing a darned thing for humanity.
BB
"Correction Paul, you have scientific THEORIES. Scientific explanations such as the origins of race, humanity, evolution, are theories that are widely accepted and taught and accepted as fact."
*sigh* Scientific THEORIES are explanations based upon and corroborated by EVIDENCE, unlike BELIEF, which is an explanation supported by imagination and wishful thinking. Zero evidence.
"Those who believe God is real believe God is real with their whole mind and heart because their lifelong experiences, situations, and yes, personal interventions that have confirmed this to them."
That's swell. But useless when trying to prove the existence of the supernatural. Funny how all of these experiences are entirely subjective and not recordable. Like Hindus, Muslims, Wiccans, and people who believe in the healing power of crystals. Etc.
"...arguing the issue is completely moot..."
Perhaps, given that Believers hypocritically refuse to acknowledge the use of EVIDENCE in trying to establish the existence of something.
"Might I suggest you don't proclaim theories as facts at the very least,"
I can't help but state what has been demonstrated over the past 150 years, Anon. If you would like to refute these pitiable "theories," then you can start by reading Prothero, or any other easy-to-understand text on evolution. Then you can spurn them as mere "theories" and not "fact."
"....and it might be a thought, Paul, to at least show just a tad of at least acknowledgement..."
Why? Do you acknowledge people who believe in leprechauns? Muslims? Do you show respect for people who believe in the healing power of crystals? Do you remain silent in the face of thousands of years of superstitions? Lies?? It's the 21st Century. Get with the rest of humanity.
Paul Ray
Paul,
I am a believer. But hear me out. I do not completely discount evolution, at all, because I know that with God ALL things are possible. I don't consider myself higher then the mind of God so I'm not going to blow off the possible as impossible. But I will say this.
Concerning Evolution: My opinion is this: It takes more faith to believe in evolving life forms then it does in static creation. I've thought about this quite deeply, actually. To create a being that is static and non changing is awesome. It is wondrous and too complex to even begin to understand even the basics of DNA and the complexity of all life forms, plus their perfectly suited plants, animals, fruits, materials, chemicals and elements - and atmosphere that is absolutely vital to our survival. However, if evolution is indeed true, as you suggest, then it is far more wondrous and far more amazing to think of what would be needed to program molecular structures, atoms, quarks, fractals, and all things physics to recognize and notice that to survive they would have to adapt. In my mind, evolution would be FAR more wondrous a proof of a designer then just mere creation, as the chances of evolution working properly is far LESS then the chances of a static being or objects maintaining itself without change. Either way, I see no evidence of NON-design whatsoever. The evidence is all in what you are looking for, instead of looking for predetermined boundaries to house your evidence in. You are aware there are far more dimensions then we know of, 11 to be exact, and to dogmatically claim how it works while you know only 4 out of 11 dimensions, (including time), is a little, to me, presumptuous.
You speak of evidence? Is it possible the evidence is in the other 7 dimensions? Is it possible the evidence you seek is not evidence in the first 3 or 4 dimensions? Is it even possible that our science has only completed .27/100 of physical understanding? You are dogmatic in your unbelief, which is fine for you, but I believe with certainty the evidence is everywhere, IF you are willing to see simple. I am certainly not going to get into the personal evidence I know myself is true, because you would, probably, discount them as lies, delusions, fables, unclear thinking, and mental illness. However, The evidence is intelligent evidence out of the realm of the physical, and until you have lived my life, you can never understand it, which is ok. I know what I know, and you know what you know, and that's just the way life works. Either way, I enjoy talking with you and hope your night is superb! :)
-"deep and simple is far more essential than shallow and complex." Fred Rogers
BB noted:
When you look at the game plans of people like John Maxwell (Equipministry), and the efforts of people to translate and smuggle Bibles into just plain hostile, tribal, or totalitarian environments, you really have to marvel at the creativity and courage involved. Nobody in the ACOGs would go to such risk."
How much more hostile, violent and totalitarian do you think an ignorant tribe of folk might become when they actually read the Bible and are told it is all the inherent word of a God?
I don't see where getting Bibles into the hands of everyone has made the world a better place to live. You'd not be impressed if a Muslim went to this kind of risk to get a Koran into Redneck enclaves in Alabama I'm sure lol
"Concerning Evolution: My opinion is this: It takes more faith to believe in evolving life forms then it does in static creation."
This isn't an issue of faith/belief. It's science. Evolution happened, and it continues to happen, despite your personal incredulity.
Again, I suggest one of the many textbooks (just like chemistry or physics or biology) on the subject. Don Prothero's "Evolution: What The Fossils Say and Why It Matters" is an excellent text for those who have no clue what evolution is, or how it works. Whether you want to accept the evidence is besides the point- at least you then will be able to cogently discuss evolution, unlike the vast majority of Believers who reject evolution- whose idea of evolution comes from Creationist literature, or their own imagination.
I believe Prothero is a Believer himself, BTW.
Paul Ray
"Concerning Evolution: My opinion is this: It takes more faith to believe in evolving life forms then it does in static creation."
This isn't an issue of faith/belief. It's science. Evolution happened, and it continues to happen, despite your personal incredulity.
Again, I suggest one of the many textbooks (just like chemistry or physics or biology) on the subject. Don Prothero's "Evolution: What The Fossils Say and Why It Matters" is an excellent text for those who have no clue what evolution is, or how it works. Whether you want to accept the evidence is besides the point- at least you then will be able to cogently discuss evolution, unlike the vast majority of Believers who reject evolution- whose idea of evolution comes from Creationist literature, or their own imagination.
I believe Prothero is a Believer himself, BTW.
Paul Ray
I believe that one of the most insidious theories, WHICH IS TAUGHT IN PUBLIC SCHOOLS AS "FACT" (and obviously under Satan's direction) is the theory of gravity!
This has been an anti-Enemy public service announcement.
Norm
Careful there anon believer. You make a number of unwarranted assumptions.
Do you really believe that the gene pools of all life forms are static, unchanging, and totally without any capacity to adapt? For starters it is readily provable by a Bio 101 student that bacteria readily uptake DNA fragments and splice them into their plasmid ring (chromosome), thus adapting to be able to convert sugar into energy in the presence of penicillin (a new ability). Do you claim that natural selection is not at work in the populations of species over time, especially when an environmental change occurs or in the presence of predation? I'm just talking about adaptation within a species here. Even young earth creationist Kent Hovind (currently serving time in prison) preached that he believes in this type of "evolution." However, if you'll allow that much adaptation, then it doesn't take anything but more time for, say two halves a single gene pool that has become separated by geography, to drift far enough apart that they can no longer interbreed, and presto!, two species with a common ancestor (that no longer exists). It's just like how Latin turned into Italian, French, and Spanish, but nobody speaks Latin anymore. The idea that gene pools are static is an idea that is fundamentally at odds with every scientific observation.
Next, you speak of the nature of the universe as though all scientists have settled the matter that the universe exists in 11 dimensions, when this is not so at all. This is an idea that springs forth out of scientific pursuits, but string theory is not necessarily an accurate description of reality, and so far, it has predicted no testable differences from Einsteinian physics or quantum mechanics. It is possible that string theory could be right, but it could just as easily be wrong, and btw, just because a theory is elegant and makes many accurate predictions, that doesn't mean that the conceptual basis of the theory has to be in any way true. There is no evidence yet to suggest that any more than 3 spatial and 1 time dimension actually exist except for some interesting math. As interesting as it might be, certain things that are obviously wrong with the standard model that string theory is built upon suggest to me that it will eventually be proven wrong.
Also you speak as though each dimension is separate from every other dimension, and that something can exist in some of them, but be absent from others. This is wrong. Don't listen to Brian Greene to explain the concept of dimensions, his explanations are very misleading. We perceive our existence in a single four-dimensional "space-time" continuum. These are not four separate continuums, but one, single continuum with four aspects to it, but these four aspects are totally unified and inseparable. A three-dimensional volume is a single unified thing, not three different things smashed together. Also, for example, there is no such thing as a two-dimensional object in our universe. Even a single quark, or whatever particle you want to use as an example, is a three-dimensional object that also exists through time. So, you see, it isn't possible for something to be "hidden" by existing in some dimensions while being absent from others. If it turns out we really do live in an 11-dimensional universe, then every object will, in fact, be 11-dimensional, even if we don't perceive all of them.
To everyone contributing to this thread:
This is the kind of discussion I was hoping to find when I left my circle of intellectual high school friends and boarded the Greyhound bus for Ambassador. No such luck. Free-ranging discussion was forbidden there. We had to stay within the narrow bounds set by Herbert W. Armstrong. So I went away and found a more congenial free-ranging atmosphere elsewhere. In fact, just about everywhere else I went, in every kind of group from construction workers or grave diggers to college professors. I knew there were groups just as tight-assed as the COGs, and I managed to avoid them. Life was good.
After 46 years I got curious about the COG. I knew people still involved but knew better than try to start a free and open discussion with them. Having internet access and some time freed up by retirement, I checked around and found lively discussions by ex-COG people also eager burst the narrow HWA bounds and spill what had been on their minds for years. People who have found, like me in 1960, that life is good.
So thank you, NO2HWA; thank you, Painful Truth; thank you Otagosh; thank you, other sites, where I lurk but haven't often commented, for the opportunities for free and open discussion.
I recently came across this 7-minute video on Youtube - and thought it might be interesting to post because the concepts it touches upon lay at the foundation of all the above discussions and disagreements.
Reality just may be far beyond what we can imagine to be it's ultimate cause(s), be it God or naturalistic evolution or any other explanation we propose for our existence.
The mystery never leaves us, and we so easily fall for simplistic explanations that somehow make sense to us. Ultimately, isn't that we all were drawn to the old WCG?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uabNtlLfYyU
Okay, so if life began with white people then why can't white women produce dark complexion babies today, but black women can produce white complected babies from red to albino.
The argument that white is chosen is based purely on emotions, this is why no empirical data is ever produced following the claim.
The truth of the matter is that the Bible is all about race, they just didn't refer to it as race, they referred to it as nation. Nation in Greek is ethnos, and that's where we get the term, ethnicity today...
You guys need to visit my website, because I prove beyond a shadow of doubt that the Jews were not only black people, but the Negroes, the former slaves of America are the real lost tribes of Israel.
http://www.theblackhebrewnation.com
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