Prophet and Overseer Bob Thiel has made the claim again that his little group has accomplished more and reached more people than any other COG has in its history (except for the philanderer GTA.) Rod Meredith and Davey Pack must be shaking in their shoes right now at prophet/Overseer Thiel's awesomeness!
We of the Continuing Church of God have been answering emails, updating web information, creating and uploading YouTube videos, putting together services, and considering various ways to try to fulfill Matthew 24:14 and Matthew 28:19-20. Based upon statistics on the internet and radio estimates I have received, it appears we in the Continuing Church of God have reached more people with at least portions of Christ’s gospel of the Kingdom in our first few weeks than other non-GTA COG groups were able to do. I plan to publish the statistics and estimates on the numbers of people reached by the end of this month.
I guess that PhD from Union Institute and University might eventually come in handy when his little splinter cult goes belly up. At least he can have a little income coming in. To bad its in nutrition instead of Biblical studies because Thiel's theology is totally bankrupt.
We need to take Overseer/prophet Thiel's boasting as what it is, plain old simple bullshit. He has done the same thing in most of the reviews online that he has written about himself. Not only is he the leader of the worlds best COG he is also the worlds leading healer with homeopathic remedies. According to himself, he is the number one healer in all the United States!
He writes about himself:
In addition to performing research, Dr. Thiel conducts private holistic counseling in his office in Arroyo Grande, California (805 489-7188) (which is located in the County of San Luis Obispo). This counseling is oriented towards health improvement, health strengthening, nutrition/natural health education, and the prevention of health problems. This counseling normally involves the use and role of diet, herbs, glandulars, homeopathics, vitamins and other nutrients, and sometimes other approaches to natural health. Dr. Thiel's clinical success rates have been nothing short of phenomenal. A summary of eight published studies (involving 700 plus subjects and multiple ailments) revealed that an astonishing 98.42% of those who followed his natural health recommendations reported at least some improvement within 1-90 days! In February 2000, Back to Herbs declared, "Dr. Thiel has the highest overall clinical success rate of any natural health practitioner in the United States." Bio-SketchThere you have it again, straight for the the Overseer/prophet's mouth. Overseer/prophet Thiel is the most successful man to grace the human species. Right after Dave Pack, of course.
28 comments:
I am unsurprised he has made these boastings.
He had to boast that he has been reaching more people than anyone else. He is trying to imitate HWA and is claiming to have inherited his mantle and to bear HWA's signs of divine favor.
HWA taught that 'gaining fruit' (getting many converts) was a sign that God was with him. He constantly boasted that his sect expanded its membership by 30% constantly over 35 years (1934-1969). (He was never specific about when this time of expansion ended I must add.)
While Bob Thiel was a member of LCG (and only a lay member) he always, and I mean always, put down all the other COGs and his most common retort was that they failed to get the message of 'the truth' (Armstrongism) out to the world in a major way, unlike HWA's WCG. It was very easy for him to throw this argument at the vast majority of COG organizations which are much smaller than LCG, UCG and the other major ones.
(It was a bit harder to use this when discussing the other major COG groups but he had other arguments for them.)
He knows he had set 'ability to spread "the truth" (Armstrongism) widely' as a test to see where God is working now.
Before he said that LCG met this test and must be the true COG and must be supported.
Now that he has broken away from LCG, naturally he will say LCG has failed this test to justify his decision to leave.
And now that he has started his own 'one true church' he must say his group 'bears more fruit' (spread 'the truth' widely and effectively) than any other COG.
To those of us in the real world, including most COG members, his boastings are completely absurd and unrealistic.
But, alas, he is not talking to us, he is talking to those willing to follow him and pay tithes to him. He knows they expect this sign to follow those with God's favor. HWA claimed to bear this sign. Bob Thiel claimed Meredith bared this sign. Now Thiel claims this sign for himself.
I seriously doubt he really believes he is making a great impact in proclaiming 'the truth', but he has to say it to dupe and persuade potential followers.
That is why he says such false and deceiving things as claiming his group is having the greater impact, per capita or otherwise, among all other COGs.
"A summary of eight published studies (involving 700 plus subjects and multiple ailments) revealed that an astonishing 98.42% of those who followed his natural health recommendations reported at least some improvement within 1-90 days"
Goodness, rarely does one sentence ever contain as many weasel words and
possible points of contention as does
Thiel here.
I cannot help but wonder if Thiel is imitating Dave Pack.
Pack every now and then publishes statements claiming his group is the best COG and is the only true church. He often claims that he has remarkable results in spreading 'the truth' and gaining converts. No2HWA just recently noted one such boasting by Pack.
False Prophet Thiel's article on Dave Pack's RCG also notes how Pack boasts of having great impact in spreading 'the truth' and refutes his claims.
Thiel now tries to do exactly what Pack did.
Now I am no fan of Dave Pack. I would say he is more authoritarian (and therefore worst) than even Meredith. At least Meredith lets followers go to their doctors and lets women followers wear make up. I know Pack forbids women wearing make up. I am not sure about his position on doctors, but his claims to follow HWA precisely seems to indicate that he forbids doctors and medicine. I hope that is not the case.
Below are Thiel's words regarding Pack's boastings.
How similar are Pack's deeds with what Thiel is now doing?
Why is Bob Thiel now doing what he condemned when Pack did them?
"Although it is unclear how RCG now spends its funds, it now seems to believe that its internet presence is proof that it has preached the gospel adequately...
"LCG has reached over 200 nations/territories and accomplished that years before RCG did. Thus, by that standard, RCG should have been supporting LCG. FWIW, I know the COGwriter site has reached over 200 nations/territories too (and people from countries representing most people on the planet are reached pretty much every week at COGwriter).
"Anyway, having one or more hits from each nation has been obtained by other COGs (I suspect that both UCG and Barnabas Ministries did this years ago too--as undoubtedly several of the other COG sites most likely have), hence RCG should have been a bit more careful on how it tried to spin this. It is not unique in this accomplishment."
"RCG tends to temporarily brag about certain statistics for a while, then switch to others when the previous ones are not as impressive. It has done this repeatedly over its history, yet his followers seem not to have caught on to this game." (Emphasis mine-Redfox712)
"RCG has always been concerned about numbers. So much so, that it almost always had various statistics that it has selectively bragged about for years (it just tends to change which one it brags about once it does not appear as positive).
"Furthermore, RCG's David Pack, after writing the previously mentioned booklet, posted a letter dated 1-13-12 titled An Open Letter to All WCG Splinters RCG Fruits—Obvious Fingerprints of God! where he brags about and emphasizes many RCG statistics--there are pages of statistics and numbers he tries to brag about. Additionally, is not mentioning that attendance was up 6.0% in March 2011 indicative that David Pack and RCG are concerned about numbers? The hypocrisy and contradictions in RCG should be obvious, yet its members overlook them (though some finally do end up opening their eyes and leaving)."
I think Thiel's analysis of Pack's boasts provides a preview of what to expect when Bob Thiel boasts statistics to claim he has a more impactful work in spreading 'the truth' more than any other COG.
The facts do not support Thiel's boasts. He will have to make up his own facts, ignore the many things against his argument, and (misleadingly) insist that he has proved that he is the leader of the one true church.
Of course it is a lie. It is bearing false witness. And if he actually believed in God as he says, he should think very carefully what He would think about tricking people who trust him and exploiting them to gain tithes.
Just saw this from Thiel's members' letter:
"Based upon statistics on the internet and radio estimates I have received, it appears we in the Continuing Church of God seem to be reaching more people with Christ’s gospel of the Kingdom on a per member basis than any other COG group."
Why on a per member basis? Did HWA boast his growth was impressive because it was on a per member basis?
This is a selective test Thiel has set for himself. He has fixed the question so he can say he has the fruits that prove his right to rule.
This is exactly what I was talking about in my last comment. He is already fudging the question to deceive potential followers.
He is bearing false witness to his members. This is despicable and immoral behavior.
"...that an astonishing 98.42% of those who followed his natural health recommendations reported at least some improvement within 1-90 days!"
"at least" and "some" are swoozy words. If I paid what I suspect he charges for this stuff I'd note "some improvement" as well. If he talks this way about clients/patients then of course he will exaggerate the success of his "church" in the same way. It's his nature to be stupendeous and awesome
Bob has the very same kind of braggart and exaggeration qualities that Dave Pack of all things. Perhaps the same affliction.
Doc notes:
""Dr. Thiel has the highest overall clinical success rate of any natural health practitioner in the United States."
Geeee...that's exactly what the doc down the street here says about himself. Can there be TWO on the planet with this kind of success!!!!????
:) Narcissism rises to the bottom once again in the COGs
"...at least some improvement within 1-90 days."
Nothing like setting the bar high there, Booby. "Some" improvement? Within "1-90 days?"
My dog could prescribe Alpo and Milk Bones and get results like that.
As anyone familiar with the old WCG can attest, gross exaggeration was a vital part of the sales job HWA used to draw people into the fold, and keep them in once they joined.
Thiel and Pack are no different in this regard. Spin-doctoring, verbal slight-of-hand, lying with statistics - call it what you will, in order to impress potential converts one thing you CANNOT do is simply lay all the factual cards on the table as they actually are. From the very beginning indoctrination into the ideology of the group high drama and serious distortions of fact are very much part of the overall strategy to keep those tithe dollars coming in.
Interesting how DECEPTION is at the root foundation of such groups who claim to prize TRUTH above all else. And what's more laughable is that the deceptions are not all that sophisticated nor difficult to tease out and expose, indicating that both the leadership and its intended audience demographic are not all that bright or well-educated.
Though it must be admitted, HWA was far more adept at this than any of his modern-day imitators, Thiel and Pack especially standing out as rank amateurs, if what they've attempted thus far are any indication.
Gospel proclamation "On A Per Member Basis" claims Thiel.
This means, (and lets hope this doesnt happen) that each time he gets a "new" member, his effectiveness actually DECLINES as the output of his group stays the same with his silly web site, but the amount of "members" increases.
This is a silly statistic. Web hits are not that important a metric. They are not unimportant, but they do not measure conversion, nor actual impact.
You Tube is full of nonsensical videos as an example, that have MILLIONS of views. They are generally CURIOSITY viewers. Thiel publishes sensationalism, both about world politics and COG internal happenings.
His stuff in some perverted way is amusing and curious. Even I visit it often, as probably many of you do, for its sick entertainment value, like looking at a train wreck. Yet none of these visits indicate a TRUE interest in his nonsense.
No, Thiels website and "ministry" is street carnival, and his " Web Hits " are not from the interested and seeking as they are from a prurient , perversely curious and voyeuristic people watching someone make a fool out of himself. It is painful to watch, but we cannot resist looking anyway.
The best witness that Thiel is giving any of us, is to keep humble, recognize SocioPathic behavior, and to self regulate ones own delusions of grandeur.
Joe Moeller
Cody, WY
More lies and distortions of what Thiel has said. You have no moral superiority over him.
Bob Thiel goes rogue.
Bob Thiel starts his own church.
Both get reported here. Links to Bobbo's church are included in the news stories.
Bobbo says Internet traffic is high? How startling! Perhaps much of the "Internet traffic" is from curious people coming from, say, THIS site.
How ironic!
Anonymous 10:41, once again your empty, vague, Tweet-like comment is meaningless without further explanation. Would you care to elaborate a bit more on the accusation? - or would that be too taxing for your obviously world-class intellect.
They all learned self-hype from a man they regard as quasi-spiritual, their "Apostle" Herbert W. Armstrong.
Thank God that the gospel is being spread by others who are willing to self-efface, giving the pilot's seat to Father God and/or Jesus Christ. It would appear that God has provided us with a "tell" as to how to discern those who really do act in His valence. The false ones make it all about themselves and their supposedly special chosen little groups. That's why we call them personality cults, if anyone wonders.
BB
All one has to do is look at the first few chapters of the HWA Autobiography, with un-filtered eyes, to see what HWA was REALLY all about. And the answer to that was, of course, financial success and making something of himself. Hobnobbing with business associates, multi-millionares, with the utmost cockiness, conceit, and arrogance. He was determined to make something of himself, one way or the other, come hell or high water. And when regular business practices failed and all that was left was menial manual labor, he got just enough information needed (6 months of library study) to create a very successful religious money machine, using every skill and tactic to make it work, without any shame or lack of remorse for his unethical practices (begging, lying, prophesying falsely, controlling, selling and advertising.) (by the way, all of this is thoroughly documented.) He strung his followers along with promises that never materialized and prophecies that never came true while raking in the moolahs all the way.
Almost every one of his wanna-be successors have tapped into the "Armstrong Marketplace" with the same tactics, and almost all of them have failed absolutely miserably. Yet it's very clear the same miserable principles still remain with them, handed down from Armstrong: Conceit, pride, deception, and arrogance. They learned well from their short little master, didn't they?
But I truly believe that HWA was himself was a dupe as much as any of his followers, as he was deceived by the metaphysical claims promoted by the COG of the time, and then used his advertising and marketing skills to continue to promote them. It seems quite a bit of a stretch to claim he got into all this for the money from the very beginning. That is a completely unverifiable claim.
Byker Bob, I see you've "rejected the messenger" (HWA) but still buy into all (or most) of the supernatural presuppositions he build his worldview upon. This rather puzzles me, as I find it to be the rule rather than the exception among most ex-WCGer's. They just can't bear to let go of all the unverifiable claims Christianity is built upon.
Anon 12:16 said:
"It seems quite a bit of a stretch to claim he got into all this for the money from the very beginning. That is a completely unverifiable claim."
Read the first chapters of the autobiography again, please, and notice what has always been the drive. Also notice the timing. Count how many times in the WHOLE autobiography the words "Success", "Money", "make something of myself", how many complaints there are of office size, building size, inferior quality, or anything related to physical success, money, and the like. I'll give you this, it of course doesn't say that outright, who's going to admit that? I whole heartedly believe his inner true motive was money, however, the difference between you and I is that I believe to justify his greed and lust for power, he made himself believe God was behind it and bought into his own delusion as fact. This made it acceptable, in my opinion.
I'm not denying that HWA had these motives in his youth, and that they never really ceased from animating him into his old age.
Maybe you're right, that when he found God and religion, it made all the vain self-seeking justifiable in his mind and just reformatted it. HWA was a very simple-minded person - most fundamentalists are - and seemed to me to have perceived virtually everything in very black & white terms. Nuance, subtleties and gray areas just weren't a part of his thinking.
One early associate from HWA's business days came to the AC campus some years after it had been founded, and he mentioned that HWA said to him "Well, I've done pretty well for myself, haven't I?" At least, that's what the guy remembered HWA to have said. If true, this would clearly verify your claim.
If HWA really was any sort of a Christian, and I mean "ANY" sort whatsoever, then you would have of course seen the attributes of Christianity in his Character. The bible calls these the fruits of the spirit.
However, what did we get, and what did we see?
A raging temper. Anger. Lust. Greed. Flamboyance. Love of money. Arrogance. Lack of self-control. Love of power. Almost everything that a "Christian" is NOT supposed to have if transformed by Christ. He was, in fact, the definition of an Anti-Christian, spreading a gospel that shows the anti-fruits exactly opposite of what he was supposed to show.
I never figured out how someone like HWA could be SO successful but be SO temperamental and angry a person, so unlikeable and so powerhungry and claim to be a servant of a God that says He is "Love". Until I found out Herbert's idea of "Love" had nothing to do with love at all, to family, to God, to self, or otherwise, but more like "love is absolute loyalty, unwavering obedience, and unquestioning faith that what I and the ministers say is correct. And if you go against me, you go against God, and you will feel my wrath from God against you." And everything else seemed to be built on that.
"...Herbert's idea of "Love" had nothing to do with love at all, to family, to God, to self, or otherwise, but more like "love is absolute loyalty, unwavering obedience, and unquestioning faith that what I and the ministers say is correct. And if you go against me, you go against God, and you will feel my wrath from God against you." And everything else seemed to be built on that."
I agree that, unfortunately, this was the case. Any ideology that cannot be demonstrated by reasonable evidence or sustained by rational logic requires some kind of existential threat in order to motivate people to accept it. It's the lifeblood of religion - Islam threatens the bodily life and health of nonbelievers, Christianity threatens eternal punishment in hell, COG religion threatens God's curses now in this life and ultimate eternal extinction as a result of the Lake of Fire, etc.
And it's true that HWA made full use of such threats, both in sermons and his infamous member letters. His letter written to the membership in 1967 upon the death of his first wife Loma is a textbook example of terror religion, where he in essence blamed the member's lack of zeal with respect to "the Work" for Loma's death.
The whole thing is almost too tragic to contemplate. And at one time I sincerely and wholeheartedly this nonsense! Unbelievable.
Actually Anon we DO have power over false prophet and Chief deceiver Thiel. His own words have made him out to be a fool. He has discredited himself and we will continue to remind people what a fool he is.
You'll get no argument from me on that point!
Yassuh, Mista Overseer. Us'ns work real hard for you.
Off-topic, but has anyone noticed that Malm has gone even farther off his rocker today in using the Indian ayurvedic medicine to support his health claims regarding asparagus. Ayurvedic medicine is loosely connected to both Hinduism and Buddhism, and the god Krishna. In addition, the logic behind its cures still revolve around the belief in only 4 elements (earth, wind, fire, and water) and the "humorism" theories of pathology.
Malm writes:
"Asparagus benefits the body in many other ways. Ayurvedic healing refers to asparagus as “shatavari” which means “women with a thousand husbands.” Ayurvedic experts have used shatavari for centuries to treat the symptoms of menopause as well as infertility and loss of libido."
While I suppose Thiel would probably applaud Malm's natural asparagus cures, I am sure that Malm's god must be extremely angry at this tacit nod to, and therefore, obviously, worship of another god, Krishna! Well, at least that's what Malm would say if anyone else wrote the same thing. LOL
Because so many of them lack very basic critical thinking skills, COGer's fall prey for all kinds of "natural remedies" and "folk cures." They have websites, etc., and you ought to see some of the wacky things they recommend for various ailments. Some are OK, like more natural foods - but some of the claims get very bizarre and close to urban legends. Joe Tkach Sr. tended to be this way. I remember a time at HQ's when many members starting ingesting hydrogen peroxide as a cure-all for many afflictions because apparently JWT took this advice from some chiropractor/homeopathic guy (a Church member, of course). It seems once you start going down the path of supernaturalism and conspiracy it opens your mind to all kinds of loony beliefs and practices, some of which could be life threatening.
As far as Apostle Malm's various and sundry claims covering the gamut from scripture interpretation to prophetic world events to the intimate details of sex to asparagus - a thought comes to mind: I would be curious to see what this guy is really like up close and personal, and how he lives his daily life. The reason I say this is that I've often noticed those eager to set themselves up as "experts" capable of dispensing advice on all manner of subjects frequently have personal lives that are in absolute tatters. People like Malm can hide such details behind the obscurity of the Internet. But I really do wonder what this lunatic would be like to observe up close.
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