If ever there was a prophet without honor in his own country, Bob Thiel is t! No one pays any attention to his fake prophetic claims. He is mocked and ridiculed throughout the Churches of God. Through it all the prophet stands by his claim that he is been doubly blessed with the Holy Spirit and there for is to be looked upon with favor.
Today he has an article up trying to prove his unique position in the Church of God as a prophet and Overseer.
He tries to use three Church of God men as his litmus test. It is their writings that he claims legitimizes him as a prophet.
...for today’s post, I would mainly like to include the positions of the late Herbert W. Armstrong, as well as L. Leroy Neff and William Ellis,...He quotes HWA:
In a radio broadcast, with a title listed as Proof of a True Prophet, the late Herbert W. Armstrong taught the following:
True prophet…Watch and see if it {what he says} comes to pass–and you can know that man has been called {by God to be a prophet. (Armstrong HW. Proof of a True Prophet. World Tomorrow Radio program. HA535B.MP3)Events confirming what the prophet said by one called of God is part of the proof. And that is consistent with Deuteronomy 18.
Self appointed prophet Thiel should take HWA's words to heart. If HWA did not consider himself a prophet he did not consider others in the Church to be one either!. He certainly would NOT be recognizing Bob Thiel right now as a prophet.I have definitely NOT been called to be a PROPHET…Emphatically I am NOT a prophet, in the sense of one to whom God speaks specially and directly, revealing personally a future event to happen or new truth, or new and special instruction direct from God — separate from, and apart from what is contained in the Bible. And I never have claimed to be. (Armstrong H. Personal from the Editor, The 19 Year Time Cycles. The Good News of Tomorrow’s World. February, 1972, p. 1)
Thiel wants you to realize that he does not have the capability to make things happen as a prophet. Therefore, you need to know that not all prophets make things happen or perform miracles. Since Bob cannot do so now, nor will he be able to do so in the future, he wants you to know that does not disqualify him from the roll.
It also needs to be understood that prophets do not have to perform public miracles to be genuine. John the Baptist was a prophet according to Jesus (Matthew 11:7-10), but he is not recorded as performing any public miracles. Actually, the Bible records, “John did no miracle” (John 10:41, KJV). Jesus told the Pharisees that an adulterous generation sought signs, beyond prophetic accuracy (Matthew 12:38-40).
Christians are to walk by faith and not be sight (2 Corinthians 5:7), and SEEING miracles is not the final criteria that a Christian is supposed to have. Jesus’ clear requirements for determining a true vs. false prophet was the FRUITS not some sign or miracle (Matthew 7:15-20; 24:24).
Self appointed prophet Thiel next uses Leroy Neff to legitimize his roll as prophet.
But the Scriptures show that God’s servants have sometimes not had these qualities or credentials. They were not graduates of the recognized theological institutions of their day. Moses had trouble speaking in public (Exodus 4: 10). Jeremiah was “too young” (Jeremiah 1 :6). Paul lacked certain speech abilities (I Corinthians 2: 1, II Corinthians 10:10). Even Jesus Himself had no outstanding personal characteristics that set Him apart from others, as the religious leaders had to pay Judas to point Him (Matthew 26:47-49).
Since Thiel has no biblical education from a Church of God institution or a seminary he wants you to know that this should not be a stumbling block for you either. Just because his PhD is in homeopathic mumbo-jumbo you should not look less of of him for having no theological education.
Jesus said His followers would not be many in number, but would be comparatively few: “Do not fear, little flock, for it is your Father’s good pleasure to give you the kingdom” (Luke 12:32). (Neff LL. Imposter–or–True Prophet — Which? Good News, January 1986, pp. 10-11)
A true prophet would not need to be from a major theological institution, have the most magnanimous personality, or have a large or impressive Church, but would be the type willing to meet in members’ homes. He also does not have to have had a ministerial background. God chooses who His prophets are.Because self appointed prophet Thiel has no church as of yet he is nothing more than a house church that includes immediate family and a few friends. That however constitutes as Small church in his eyes and therefore legitimizes him again.
Because prophet Thiel's background is in homeopathic and naturopathic pills and potions he wants you to know that that also is what qualifies him to be a prophet. He is a prophet with a secular background.
So, a prophet also does not need to come from a ministerial family, but instead can be called if he has a secular work background.
Since self appointed prophet Thiel has made a lot of predictions over the years he wants you to know that just because they have not happened it does not disprove him as a prophet. Thiel quotes Leroy Neff again in order to make himself look knowledgeable:
Then there is the prophet or minister who says something will come to pass and it apparently does not. Such a one would certainly be labeled false by most observers. This is one reason, but not the only reason, why almost all of God’s prophets throughout history have been labeled by many as false!
Consider such men as Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel. They sometimes prophesied for many years, and yet what they said would happen did not come to pass immediately. Why didn’t these prophecies come to pass?
The answer was that it was not yet God’s time for their predictions to come to pass. At the proper time, sometimes years or decades later, the prophecies were fulfilled. And in some cases, what they prophesied has not yet come to pass even in our day, but will be fulfilled in God’s time. There is a time, after ample warning, when God will finally say, “None of My words will be postponed any more” (Ezekiel 12:28).
Thiel uses Paul next with one of his prophetic failures as proof that if his predictions are not accurate that is ok. If Paul can do it, so can Thiel!
It also should be noted that while the Apostle Paul considered himself to be a prophet, not all of his speculative predictions were accurate. He once claimed:
10 I perceive that this voyage will end with disaster and much loss, not only of the cargo and ship, but also our lives (Acts 27:10).
As they rejected
In short, they would reject Him as a heretic and the leader of a new sect, just as some labeled his servant Paul “a ringleader of the sect of the Nazarenes” (Acts 24:5) . Undoubtedly some would call His religion a cult, as some label His true religion today. (Ibid, pp. 11-12)
Truly, most people will not listen to a true prophet of God in this age. And, even when God grants power to His two witnesses, most in the world will not only not listen to them, they will be deceived enough to support an army that will fight against the returning Jesus Christ (Revelation 16:13-14; 19:11-19)!
Next Thiel quotes Leroy Neff again. This time it is the "proof" that legitimate prophets of God preach the law. If you dare to preach grace and let people eat some tasty shrimp then you are a false prophet. Since Bob Thiel does not let people eat shrimp and preaches the law, and more law an m ore law, he therefore is a legitimate heir to prophet status.
If a prophet or minister does not speak according to God’s Word, according to His law and His testimony, there is no light in him, or, in other words, no truth in him. His message is false. Many claiming to represent God try to “do away” with God’s laws and commandments. They only accept a part of God’s Word and reject the rest…
Then comes Thiel's most pathetic excuse as to why he is a prophet. He has had hands laid upon him and a double portion of the holy spirit dumped into his head.
A true prophet is one called of God, teaches the same gospel that Jesus taught, has had hands laid upon him (cf. 1 Timothy 4:14; 2 Timothy 1:6; Hebrews 6:2), keeps the commandments of God, AND has predictions that come to pass.He then quotes the 1965 Good News magazine with the following to legitimize himself:
Whenever a man is ordained to an office of greater service in God’s Work hands are laid on him. In the ordination ceremony God’s ministers lay their hands on those being ordained, and ask Almighty God-the Head of this Church-to continue to work in their lives…
The laying on of hands serves the purpose of setting apart anyone or anything in God’s sight, for a SPECIAL USE OR PURPOSE…Then Thiel lays it on the line as to why he is a true prophet of God. Take heed folks. If you mock him now you are mocking the power God that has been doubly poured into his head.
A true prophet is under God’s authority. A true New Testament prophet has had hands laid upon him/her and/or received special anointing. You can not anoint yourself or come up with doctrine that contradicts the Bible (cf. Revelation 22:18-19) like at least three self-declared supposed COG “prophets” (Gerald Flurry, William Dankenbring, and Ronald Weinland) and false predictors (like Harold Camping) have falsely done)–”Scripture cannot be broken” (John 10:35).
Thus far, none who have ever contacted me and claimed to have been a prophet of some type have had hands laid upon them to give them the type of anointing that a true prophet of God would likely have had in this church age–if God was selecting them. Hence, if the anointing from a true minister has not happened to you, understand that I do not now accept that you are a prophet or one of the two witnesses. Laying hands upon yourself is not enough.
In my case, in November/December 2011, I prayed that if I truly had a prophetic role from God that He would have something happen during a planned mid-December 2011 trip to Charlotte, North Carolina to confirm it or deny it if that were His will. As it turned out, on 12/15/2011 hands were laid upon me in Charlotte. The minister who did so prayed that I would be granted a “double-portion” of God’s Holy Spirit. The minister told me that he had not ever done this before but he felt that it was reminiscent of the time that the prophetic and ecclesiastical leadership mantle passed from the Prophet Elijah to Elisha (2 Kings 2:9-13). This minister had been unaware that I had prayed that God would have me anointed or somehow identified for a prophetic role on that mid-December 2011 trip if that were His plan for me and I had never discussed my possible prophetic role with him prior to this anointing. This 12/15/11 anointing appears to be the first biblically-appropriate prophetic anointing in the Church of God in many decades, if not many multiple centuries. And the legitimacy of this anointing has been proven by subsequent events–though many do not seem to understand how God works at times. And yes, I will add that I believe that I do have the appropriate prophetic fruits that Jesus discussed (Matthew 7:15-20) and that those truly interested in the truth can see this if they truly wish to prayfully look into this.
Theil then asks the million dollar question:
Will you believe or will you somehow allow yourself or others to talk you out of it (cf. Matthew 13:22)?
.
31 comments:
Why is he citing Leroy Neff who is now affiliated with UCG? Thiel condemned UCG for elected their leaders among themselves. Why is he relying on a man who accepted what Thiel appears to regard as heresy?
Thiel condemned UCG for (he says) lacking zeal in spreading 'the truth'. But UCG no doubt spreads Armstrongism far more widely and effectively than Thiel can hope to do.
Why hasn't Gaylyn Bonjour, the LCG minister who anointed him, not joined with Thiel?
A major reason he got as far as he did with his blog was that he supported one of the major COGs, namely Meredith's LCG. Now that he is on his own how is he any different from any other COG blogger out there claiming to continue the work of HWA? There are all too many of them and now Thiel is just as unimportant as them.
When I read his post announcing that he was starting his own COG personality cult I was offended that he complained that he had received a factually incorrect letter from Meredith.
People close to Meredith have often noted that he lies wherever necessary. He once lied about Raymond McNair's ex-wife and caused WCG to be sued by her and in 1992 it was forced to pay about $850,000 to her. Also in his telecasts Meredith often says 'you will get this information nowhere else' or words to that effect. How is that not lying?
I wish Thiel had learned that earlier. It would have saved me a lot of trouble. Or at least he would bear no responsibility for luring me into the legalistic abyss of Meredith's LCG.
But reading about Thiel's breaking away it appears what really offended Thiel was that LCG Headquarters refused to agree with Thiel's belief that he had been ordained by God as a Prophet and that they refused to listen to a mere lay member when he disagreed with at least one charge in doctrine.
What self serving, pompous madness.
What a loser he is.
(BTW, who is William H. Ellis and where is he affiliated now?)
I actually find the decline in Dr. Thiel's state of mind and personal perspectives to be somewhat sad. We noted here a change in him a few months back that we could not define but now I think we see what was going on.
Rather than Dr. Thiel finding solid Biblical proof , whatever that is, for his self image and calling, he seems to endeavor more to match his reality, with proof texts that allow any and all deviations from what one might see as a "true prophet."
If what they say doesn't happen...its still off int he future and that happens
If they can't speak well..we got a scripture
If they have a weak bodily presense..got that covered
Since he prayed about something and got a sign...we're good to go
(I had a client once who verified her musings by saying.."If I see a yellow truck on the way to work...")
No public miracles...got that covere
Seeking a sign or not seeking a sign ...uh huh, no problem.
Miracles good...great
Miracles bad....great
People don't listen anyway..no prob
Won't listen to Two Witnesses
Didn't listen to Jesus
Didn't listen to Paul
Didn't listen to Jeremiah....
(What kind of a communicator is a God that find anyone to listen?)
I am sure, knowing how defections of those considered important can worry a church, that LCG is relaxing a lot over Bob's defection to himself. His writing persona vs is personal one is very different and ineffective. It is not an insult to note he is not a teacher or public speaker. He just isn't. He's a generalist that will hop and skip prooftexting his way through the tulips to make it fit his needs and ideas. I guess we all do that.
The reason there are so many denominations, sects, cults , splinters, slivers and one man shows in Christianity is because they are ALL in the Book. You can find them if you look hard enough and be anything you want to be.
Bob is no theological or one more guru threat to anyone but perhaps his family.
I was once asked to just take my last local church and run with it during the Tkach era. I said no because they'd have me for lunch in six months. I was asked by previous churches in Ky to return and do the same by some. That one was more tempting though not practical because the people were so sincere, kind and heartfelt by nature and Church was everything to them. Many floundered badly without the Church they loved. In SC it was who could be the minister, who could be the leader, who could be in charge. In SC many call themselves ministers not because they have done their homework, but because they quit drinking or they just want to be. I'd take dirt poor and hearts of gold over ego filled middle class anyday.
People who follow these people have their own responsibility to wake up and do their homework or walk their own path and not that of others who think others need filter their world through them. Most never will wake up that much.
I find Bob Thiel's self view and story both fascinating and sad.
Hey Bob:
HWA wasn't a prophet and made lots of errors regarding prophesy. And you aren't a prophet either. Many Protestants have a better or about the same prophetic understanding as you do. Get over yourself!
Doc wonders:
"Consider such men as Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel. They sometimes prophesied for many years, and yet what they said would happen did not come to pass immediately. Why didn’t these prophecies come to pass?"
Because they were false prophets too?
Because they were mentally ill?
Because they were reading their Holy Books as if they were newspapers?
Because they just made it up as they went?
NO PROPHET in any age speaks of any age but the one they are living in. No people would follow a man who prophecied that this is all for many years into the future , hundreds (as in the misunderstanding of the "behold a virgin shall conceive) or thousands, as in "time is short."
No prophet says, "oops...this hasn't happened, it must be for the future so I am still right."
The truth is that humans can't know the future. It's not here yet and many factors determine it on a moment to moment basis. If the future is locked in, then why bother. Just hang out until it unfolds as predetermined.
Why is it that no one can admit or even note that the Apostle Paul was totally wrong about his view on Jesus coming? He evolved from "soon" and screwed up the lives of sincere couples and people with that baloney and then realized he was going to die but HE still got HIS reward...see ya!
The Apostle Paul was every bit a false prophet as was any pagan wanna be of his day or Harold Camping etc of ours.
Weird planet.....That Third Ape there is the most dangerous...
Thiel is in manic mode. The crash when it comes should prove spectacular.
The classic WCG proof of prophecy but nonetheless a screw up by Ezekiel.
Destruction of Tyre Ezekiel 26
For thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will bring upon Tyrus Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon, a king of kings, from the north, with horses, and with chariots, and with horsemen, and companies, and much people. He shall slay with the sword thy daughters in the field: and he shall make a fort against thee, and cast a mount against thee, and lift up the buckler against thee. And he shall set engines of war against thy walls, and with his axes he shall break down thy towers. By reason of the abundance of his horses their dust shall cover thee: thy walls shall shake at the noise of the horsemen, and of the wheels, and of the chariots, when he shall enter into thy gates, as men enter into a city wherein is made a breach. With the hoofs of his horses shall he tread down all thy streets: he shall slay thy people by the sword, and thy strong garrisons shall go down to the ground. And they shall make a spoil of thy riches, and make a prey of thy merchandise: and they shall break down thy walls, and destroy thy pleasant houses: and they shall lay thy stones and thy timber and thy dust in the midst of the water. And I will cause the noise of thy songs to cease; and the sound of thy harps shall be no more heard. And I will make thee like the top of a rock: thou shalt be a place to spread nets upon; THOU SHALT BE BUILT NO MORE: for I the LORD have spoken it, saith the Lord GOD.
In this block of text God states quite blatantly that Nebuchadnezzar would sack and destroy completely the city of Tyre. (It was a fortified ISLAND city and not on the mainland) However the events given in this passage never did come to pass. After a 13 year siege Nebuchadnezzar withdrew his forces. Tyre survived quite prosperously after that for another 240 years until it was done away with by Alexander the Great and Ezekiel was not talking about Alexander the Great.
Today, Tyre is quite a nice place and sets on the site of Old Tyre. The apologetics for Ezekiels's blunder and failed prophecy are many and dillusional.
While in an AC speech class (1972 or so) I heard a speaker rant against the birth control pill. His argument was based on outdated information and he simply found quotes to support his position and ignored everything else. I thought, if a church member couldn't trust his scholarship with regards to science, how can they trust what he says about theology? Thiel has a degree in homeopathy? Really? This tells me that he can be trusted as much as one who has a degree in phrenology. Critical thinking is not one of his strong points. And since when is another man our source of authority? Quoting Leroy Neff? Those who believe Thiel are limited to those who want to believe him, in spite of facts and reason. Anyone who has been in the COG for long, given their wealth to the church, avoided doctors, had family members suffer and sometimes die, cannot accept the fact that they might have been wrong and walk away from it. They have invested to much into the organization. This is the sunk cost fallacy. You can't change their minds because it is not just about theology but is also about psychology. Few can admit that they have been bamboozled for decades, led their family into impoverishment, destroyed their futures and even caused suffering a death based on their beliefs. This generation of true believers will go to their graves claiming that HWA was right and so were they in following them. Perhaps with each generation fewer people will join to replace the dying generation and the movements will fade away.
Doc says:
" Jesus told the Pharisees that an adulterous generation sought signs, beyond prophetic accuracy (Matthew 12:38-40).
Originally in the first Gospel, which is Mark, not Matthew, Gospel Jesus is made to say that no sign will be given to his generation in Mark 8:11-13.
No sign...period. None!
Along comes Matthew and Luke who copy most of Mark for themselves and then tweak it a bit.
Matthew 12:38-40
38 Then some of the Pharisees and teachers of the law said to him, “Teacher, we want to see a sign from you.”
39 He answered, “A wicked and adulterous generation asks for a sign! But none will be given it except the sign of the prophet Jonah. 40 For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth."
Recall, Mark has NO account of Jesus resurrection but rather just women running from the tomb and telling no one which of course they had to tell someone or Mark would not know they told no one :)
Thus, Mark has no Sign of Jonah sign because his book doesn't have a resurrection story. Vs 9 and following of Mark 16 are added much later to fix this anomoly.
So sign or no sign? Depends on who you read. Mark says no, Matthew and Luke say yes to one and Jesus performs all sorts of miracles that I suppose don't count as signs of anything since only none or one was to be given.
So Bob can either give a sign or not give a sign and he can do lots of stuff that doesn't have to be a sign if he doesn't need it to be or it doesn't work.
Lots of people have "fruits" Bob. Lots of people are very nice and productive spiritually so you'll get lost in the crowd. If you think you'll have special fruits like a special double portion...then one goes from having fruits to being
one.
Gerald Flurry, Dave Pack, Ron Weinland etc are not specila kinds of humans beings called to do special things for us all and neither are you.
Bob is going to have to be careful his regular non religious and true believer clients don't get wind of his personal beliefs about himself or his actual vocation may tank as well.
I got taken into a college president's office at a secular college to chat and it ended up being his need to tell me all about Jesus and how the Bible is true. I don't know if he knew my background and wanted to challenge me or simply stumbled into me. I said little. He was my "boss" and a college president. He finally couldn't stand it and said, "And...I am an Evangelist."
Oi....I smiled and said, "that's nice...." He's gone.....as well as the Dean who treated all the students like her little children in Jesus.
Coming soon-------
The Apo-Proph-Wit (equal parts apostle, prophet and witness)
Must start with narcissistic unholy trinity compulsion (it’s all about, ME, MYSELF and I). Add equal parts delusionary aptitude, prideful self worth, a salient portion of prickly personality, and a dash of ineptitude and visions of grandeur, stirred liberally with a heavy hand.
No idea how many more of these APOPROPHWIT’s will arise, but the above ingredients should reveal those with said qualifications and the abhorrent need to be seen by all. My guess there will be a "flurry" of activity to join the "pack".
Just because his PhD is in homeopathic mumbo-jumbo
Homo what? Explains relationship with Baron Karl zu Guttenberg.
It should be pointed out that a false prophet does not have to have a failed prophecy. They can all come to pass (of course, the short answer is that Thiel is a false prophet, well, just because he is) and the prognosticator can still be a false prophet if God did not send him.
How many failed prophecies does it take to make a false prophet? None. If God did not send him, he is a false prophet.
Of course, Herbert Armstrong claimed he was not a prophet, and yet, he made predictions that did not come to pass in Jesus' Name.
Nope.
He was a false prophet.
The manic depressive crash is inevitable and homeopathic remedies will prove to be unhelpful: Thiel, take your meds and this will all go away. I can tell you from observing people who have gone through this, when you come to your senses, it will be SO embarrassing.
oops....and this was 2000 years ago!
Heb 1:1 In the PAST God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 but in THESE LAST DAYS he has spoken to us by his Son , whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe. NIV
Darn New Covenant!
Three things Thiel forgot to include are:
"God is speaking powerfully through ME and ONLY ME!"
In order for a man to be a prophet, a deity has to be speaking to and through him. Thiel spent all of his time beating around the bush, but never claimed the central core thing, that some deity or another is actually using him as its mouthpiece. Since science and technology have caused all the ancient deities to retire into the ether to practice their golf swings, this isn't happening anymore now is it? And when it does happen, it's called schizophrenia. As long as you're on your meds "god" goes away, only returning when you stop taking them (soooo, that's how we really can be sure that it wasn't any deity talking to them after all).
"Gaylyn Bonjour only thought he was 'anointing' me for some 'non-debilitating matters' so that 'god' would 'heal' me, but in fact, as it turns out, he was actually 'ordaining' me to the highest 'spiritual office' possible!"
I am sure there has to be a difference between Samuel "annointing" David for the healing of a boo-boo on his knee from killing a lion, and "annointing" him the next king of Israel. Not sure what it is, but I am sure there has to be one. Maybe Bob is right though, the only difference is the words the guy says while he's got his oily hands on your head. If so, I would think the power-hungry types such as Meredith would train all their ministerial minions to be EXCEEDINGLY CAREFUL about what they say, to make sure they aren't accidentally "ordaining" people instead of just "annointing" them. One loose cannon like Gaylyn could accidentally be creating "legitimate" prophets and apostles left and right, all of whom would supercede Meredith in rank, status, and privilege. Every "annointing" carries the risk that it might actually turn into an "ordination," thus creating new competition for tithe money out of thin air. Can't have that happening, now can we? I was "annointed" many times as a kid for usual things such as having the flu and such. On no occasion did it seem to speed up my recovery, so perhaps they were accidentally "ordaining" me instead? Maybe all these years I've been an usher or a deacon, or perhaps even an apostle or prophet, but I never knew it! As a child, I never thought to record my "annointings," so I have no idea now what they might have accidentally said when they prayed over me with their oily hands. If this happens, is god's arm twisted? Does he have no choice except to honor the mistake? I guess as far as Thiel is concerned, just so long as he gets his money and his respect, does it really matter?
"All bow to ME because I have twice as much make-believe 'holy spirit' pixie dust as anyone else has ever had for at least 2,000 years!"
(This one is prettymuch self-explanatory.)
Head Usher said
", to make sure they aren't accidentally "ordaining" people instead of just "annointing"
It's the Midas Touch of Ordination. Everyone you lay hands on turns into an Apostle or Prophet. Pretty soon they have stop you as there end up being more leaders than followers.
Someone once noticed that my success anointing the sick might serve as a model for and considered a form euthansia....lol.
To the tune of "O Give Thanks and Praise the Eternal"
I'm a prophet sir will you help me
Lay your hands right on my head
Let me be somebody so special
So God's word can flow for me
I want double portion of Spirit
For I know things so very wellll
I can watch news on TV
And interpret things for thee
I'm a prophet won't you believe
Meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
All I need is hands laid right on meeeeeeeeeeeee
Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if this website pays more attention to Bob Thiel and his zany antics than any other single source! I suspect he may have perhaps a handful of followers, maybe a dozen at the most. But really, why pay this guy any more attention they we already have? It's just a matter of time until his delusional pretensions come crashing to the ground like they have for all other HWA wannabes. He's just one of many in a long line of boringly predictable lunatics like Dankenbring, M.J. Allen, Flurry, Weinland, Malm, King and many others desperate to be recognized as some kind of special servants of God with unique power to foretell the future.
Redfox712 said: "People close to Meredith have often noted that he lies wherever necessary. He once lied about Raymond McNair's ex-wife and caused WCG to be sued by her and in 1992 it was forced to pay about $850,000 to her."
Meredith publicly slandered her and WCG got sued and lost. What did Meredith learn from this? That public slander is wrong? No, what he learned was that when you do publicly slander, just leave the name out, then you can't get sued. He regularly gives sermons where he slanders the other churches and their leaders, and everyone knows who he is talking about, but he leaves the names out so he can't be sued. You'll often hear him say "Mr. (Tom) Turner says I'd better not mention any names...". Rod Meredith commits this slander regularly. Why? To the glory of God? No, to enhance his image as the only legitimate COG leader. And while the LCG people are not naive, he has successfully propagandized them into believing it.
Redfox712 said: "People close to Meredith have often noted that he lies wherever necessary. He once lied about Raymond McNair's ex-wife and caused WCG to be sued by her and in 1992 it was forced to pay about $850,000 to her."
This lawsuit was settled in December of 1992. Meredith had his first church service for Global on the last Sabbath of 1992. Coincidence? Not at all. Meredith was afraid of being personally liable for the slander, so he had to stay under the corporate legal protection of WCG. In other words, when the people needed him the most, he instead chose personal gain.
But it's far worse than that. Meredith was sidelined for 3 years and 3 months. No preaching, no teaching, no writing, no pastoring. So, right when the people needed him the most, right when he should have been in the prime of his ministry (age 60), he sat in a lazy chair, took a big fat WCG-evangelist tithe check, and did absolutely nothing. The UCG leaders like Kubik and Webber are rightly criticized for cooperating with the apostasy, but Meredith's cooperation with the apostasy far exceeds theirs. When it comes to personal gain or serving God, Meredith has made his choice quite clear.
The good news is that those with NPD seldom, if ever, commit suicide.
Just glancing over all of Prophet Bob's "exact teachings," and so forth on his new church's website, it just really hit home to me how Bob is just one more out of so many others who have such a deep need to play church, and such an enormous insecurity that they can't stand to be just a laymember, but have to be, at minimum, a larger than average fish in a smaller than average pond.
When you get right down to it, Bob's "exact teachings" are virtually the same as all the other COGs, although each does have its own pet doctrines. Even his services follow the exact same format. What sets Bob's new sect apart from all the others? What is its reason for existing as a distinct "church" separate from all the others?
One reason is ego. Its exists to satisfy Bob's ego. It serves no other distinct purpose that could not be fulfilled just as well if not better (or worse, depending on how you look at it) by hundreds of other small, tiny, and microscopic ego-centered WCG splinters.
The other reason is conflict. There are so many other egomaniacs out there who couldn't play nicely with others, and so got themselves kicked out, and then decided to make a WCG clone of their own, where they could get to be the one doing the kicking out for a change.
If Bob were honest, he would recognize that he has nothing new or different to offer those few desperate souls confused enough to follow him, and that his new little organization has no reason to exist. Oh, right, except to allow others the chance to serve the overwhelming neediness of Bob.
Situation normal -- all effed up. Setting up shop with your own splinter group was never about serving others, not from day one all the way back to, what, 1934? "Minister" does not mean servant. It's always been the peon's job to serve the "ministry."
If Bob's wife was smart, she'd get a lawyer and start filing the paperwork now.
Anonymous 10:44 said:
"Meredith publicly slandered her and WCG got sued and lost. What did Meredith learn from this? That public slander is wrong? No, what he learned was that when you do publicly slander, just leave the name out, then you can't get sued."
I can clearly remember watching a sermon of his, The Elijah Question, in which he discussed Flurry's Malachi's Message and addressed Flurry's teaching that it is the Little Book of Revelation 10.
(Never mind that HWA applied that Scripture to himself in regards to his so-called ministry to world leaders.)
He may have named Malachi's Message but he never named Flurry or PCG.
Now in that particular instance I could not call Meredith's dismissal of Flurry as slander because Flurry strikes me as being worse than Meredith.
Recently I read an early edition of Malachi's Message and I found it quite sickening, particularly with his condemnation of Tkach's WCG donating to disaster relief, and his identification of the 144,000 as the Laodiceans, who they today shun with their tyrannical no contact policy.
Imagine that, PCG shuns the 144,000.
PCG member have no contact with the 144,000.
I also found it odd that Flurry felt compelled to deny that he was after people's money at the end of his book. I found that odd.
Bob needs to go to prophet school , take the final exam and get between 98 and 100 on the final and then he can be a prophet with papers and everything...
But it MUST be a FOR PROPHET school!
Connect those Docs...!
Doc Thiel asks: "...Will you believe or will you somehow allow yourself or others to talk you out of it (cf. Matthew 13:22)?"
Well, what others might talk one out of it? Out of what? Docs?
Doc. Meredith?
Doc Winnail?
Doc Winnail in his little mini-sermonette style FYI comments from week to week to those of the living group often ends his brief comments by saying:
"...Have a profitable Sabbath..."
Well, apparently Doc Thiel does not want to pay any more attention to Doc Winnail's comments, amongst other things, and no longer has been having profitable Sabbaths with the living group, so he departed.
Whether Doc Thiel will encourage others to have a profitable Sabbath or not...who knows, but so long as he pays attention to himSELF he will guarantee that he will give himSELF a prophet-able Sabbath without the likes of both Doc Winnail and Doc Meredith.
Or, so Doc Thiel may apparently believe unless and until he talks himSELF out of it...or others talk him out of it...
John
Isn't it "interesting" that Thiel quotes from Armstrong (who after decades of predicting that the Great Tribulation would begin in 1972 and Christ would return in 1975 having written that we'd know a "true" prophet by watching and seeing "if what he says comes to pass--and you can know that man has been called by God to be a prophet") had to backpedal and defend his pitiful track record of false prophecies in 1972 by "clarifying" that he had "definitely NOT been called to be a PROPHET...Emphatically I am not a prophet...And I have never claimed to be."
Well we've "watched" and "seen" how Armstrong's predictions never came true while he was alive! So by his own words he proved he wasn't any one special! And in fact a FALSE prophet! And what about those predictions that have supposedly come true since his death (eg unification of Germany and rumblings of Britain leaving EU). Well they weren't exactly his to begin with as such ideas had been thrown around for decades prior to him claiming such as his own. So I guess it won't be long until Thiel (like all the others following Armstrongism) will have to make a similar "apology" for his false assumption of being a prophet and of that I have no doubts whatsoever!
We also need to remember that HWA taught that New Testament Prophets had no administrative authority but merely revealed the will of God to the church because the Bible was not yet fully written.
Thiel claims to have been ordained a Prophet. According to HWA then, even if he was a Prophet, he has no right to start his own church.
He signs himself off as a Pastor. But being ordained a Prophet gives him no right to be a Pastor. HWA said so.
Thiel did not quote how HWA said Prophets have no authority over lay members in the church.
This Bob Thiel is such a rotten deceiver.
Redfox said:
"Thiel claims to have been ordained a Prophet. According to HWA then, even if he was a Prophet, he has no right to start his own church.
He signs himself off as a Pastor. But being ordained a Prophet gives him no right to be a Pastor. HWA said so."
EXACTLY.
Jeremiah 5:31
The prophets prophesy lies, the priests rule by their own authority, and my people love it this way. But what will you do in the end?
When you look at the Bible speaking about prophets in the NT there are rules. 1 Corinthians 14:37 says that "If anyone thinks they are a prophet or otherwise gifted by the Spirit, let them acknowledge that what I am writing to you is the Lord’s command." and what are those writings? The commands of 1 Corinthians 14, half of which COG members would throw out anyway because they don't believe half the things in that chapter exist today, yet somehow a prophet still does. (?!!?!) Two or three should speak, and the church would judge what the prophet said. And NOWHERE does it say a prophet has the right or the authority to be a pastor, or an overseer. This is not scriptural, even moreso because Thiel, to my knowledge, is NOT EVEN ORDAINED, yet he has set himself up as not only prophet but pastor AND overseer. Biblically, does he follow the rules? Does he allow for other prophets? Is he allowed by ecclesiastical ordination to be a pastor without ordination? Is he following 1 Corinthians 14? More then this, it seems to me to be picking and choosing to allow himself to be prophet, pastor, and overseer, seemingly breaking the rules as he goes.
Finally, a prophet NEVER boasts about being a prophet, NEVER boasts about anything EXCEPT Christ crucified (Galatians) and speaking forth God's word in humility and great awe. Bob eagerly trying to convince people he is a prophet and trying to convince people he is also a pastor and an overseer and in charge of the church is enough evidence he is not, and most spiritually discerning people I would hope would see that.
Christianity 101.
I used to think Thiel was one of the more well read members in LCG but now I believe him to be weak and most delusional.
He's worse than Dave Pack in how he jumps around scriptures, cutting and pasteing them together so that they exactly match his life and circumstances.
Amazing how you can do that on just about any topic and find ways to see yourself in scripture.! lol
I used to think Thiel was one of the more well read members in LCG but now I believe him to be weak and most delusional.
He's worse than Dave Pack in how he jumps around scriptures, cutting and pasteing them together so that they exactly match his life and circumstances.
Amazing how you can do that on just about any topic and find ways to see yourself in scripture.! lol
LIVE! From the beautiful state of the art Navel Observatory in Arroyo Grande, California, we bring you the latest flatus from "Dr." Robert Thiel, a man who was inadvertently ordained as a prophet while being annointed for a cold by an LCG elder who speaks English as a second language!
LOL!
BB
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