Wednesday, July 27, 2016

Why Are LCG Camp Attendees Being Forced to Fast?




Please ask Rod Meredith why the kids have to suffer because of him...

What kind of a narcissistic monster makes kids, who are psyched about camp, fast to "beg God" for a favorable ruling in the LCG lawsuit? Because we all know that that is what the fast is for.

Many kids... most kids, in LCG wait for camp all year long. It is a highlight for these kids, many of whom are homeschooled and have limited social interaction other than with other LCG kids.

They have nothing to do with the trouble the corrupt LCG leaders have gotten the church into. Why make them fast? Fasting is utterly meaningless unless it's a personal decision. And even then, the goal should be to draw near to God and to relinquish self will and submit to God's will. "Begging God" is silly and futile.

I feel sorry for all those kids who are being forced into this insanity for no purpose. I'm sure it will ultimately drive them away from Armstrongism even faster than they will like go in the first place. Comment from this thread






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37 comments:

DennisCDiehl said...

I agree. It's pathetic and someone in LCG should have the courage , nerve and ...well you know...to decide the campers and the camp starts as normal and these kids do not have to participate in such a stupid church made up ritual that will change nothing. No God is waiting until this weekend to decide how or whether to bail LCG out of it's stupid ass approaches, ideas and gutless leadership. Come on Doug or even Gerald. Step up to the plate and defend these kids right to have a wonderful , stress and "religious indoctrination" free experience being kids.

Come on Mr.and Ms Counselor. Step up and make the decision for your own kids to not fast and enjoy their time at camp. Where is real leadership when you need it.

Hey parents.... Fasting is not for kids and serves no purpose for them. Teach your children to make their own decisions on such things. It's a life skill that will come in handy down the road.

I know, call the Silly Sixteen Council of Fools that obey Dave Pack and have them issue a decree freeing the kids from such slavery. Maybe they will go to RCG camp next year in droves...I hope not. In fact, have them issue a decree freeing them from slavery to Dave.

Weiners....

Byker Bob said...

Kids are maleable and resilient. When I attended SEP, I can't honestly say that I met large numbers of campers who were really gung ho for the church. It is possible that the young personalities hadn't fully formed at that stage of youth, but most of the campers seemed to be just trying to adjust and get along. There were rebel types, but even these pretty much accepted and went along with most of the doctrines of the church, they just pushed the envelope a bit more, and didn't take "authority" too seriously. Most of us would listen to all the rock music we could, but we took the sabbath pretty seriously, and while we used popular slang of the day, kept the language fairly clean.

Some of the lessons I learned were that as long as you weren't flagrant about it, and watched who you trusted, you could get away with breaking the rules. One of the problems was that everyone seemed to want a piece of authority. I got caught up in that the second year, and found out that being in charge of a booth of 6 kids pretty much sucked. Having authority didn't mean that people listened especially when one of the kids in the booth was the son of one of the administrators of the camp. After that, I realized that having Armstrong-style authority was a false trail in the maze, and generally passed when it was offered. Of course, that made people wonder what was wrong with me, later, at Ambassador College, but hey, It sure helped in avoiding becoming a minister!

The kids at Meredith's SEP will probably fast without giving it a second thought, just like another Day of Atonement, although this one may be devoid of any particular meaning. Maybe some of the kids who don't know about the lawsuit will even learn about it at camp. But, for the most part, they'll go through the rest of the summer, cliostered from "the world", although there may be some secret smoking, purchase of illicit candy, shaving cream fights, telling of dirty jokes, harassing of little kids and misfit types, "seminars" on dealing with the parental problems which are the natural result of your parents being in an ACOG, and there may actually be secret make-out sessions between some of the guys and gals. But, all in all, discipline will probably be much less severe than what they experience on a daily basis at home, and most of the kids will probably have a good time.

BB

DennisCDiehl said...

I recall a canoe trip in the Minnesota wilderness of beautiful lakes and rivers with 26 SEP kids. We stayed over a Sabbath on an Island and everyone was just sitting there in the long long long Minnesota Day and Dusk doing nothing with a beautiful lake to swim in and enjoy BUT it was Sabbath so NO SWIMMING by some dumb ass decree that one one assumed but did not know the origin of.

It was hot, boring, kids getting lousy attitudes. Me getting a lousy attitude...soooooo, "Let's go swimming". We had a blast, Fire did not come down from heaven. No one got upset. and if they did they could sit on the shore under their tree and sulk. It was 1970. Three years later I was ordained a younger local elder knowing all things and the true answers to anything one could think up. Life was good and Jesus hadn't yet performed the miracle of gutting WCG for the next stupid idea... LOL.

DennisCDiehl said...

PS Besides, we already can predict God's answer to all the begging and beseeching. LCG will either settle out of court for less or after court for more.

So let it be written, so let it be said...

Anonymous said...

dr. meredith needs to read Isaiah 58:4 and quit running around in circles...

Face Palmer said...

You bunch of brain dead buffoons. Ignore these facts to your own discredit. 1. Nobody is forcing the kids to fast, certainly not diabetic kids. The kids will eat. 2. The announcement was just for early arrivals, which will be not that many and mainly adult workers. 3. The camp experience will not be impacted by the Saturday fast and the kids will have an awesome time as usual. 4. You all are showing yourselves bunch of friggin irrelevant disgruntled clawing morons if you keep saying they are making the kids fast. 5. You have an orgasm every time you realize somebody from Charlotte reads your blog.

PS. I don't attend LCG and I think it's a cult and Rod Meredith is evil. But sheesh you regulars can be damn pathetic.

Anonymous said...

So much anger for someone who sounds like they need a date with fisty palmer. It might release some pent up tension you seem to have. Are you Rod's gay son?

DennisCDiehl said...

The bigger point is that kids, (and go along to get along adults) are fasting to beg God to get LCG out of the mire the leaders seem to fear they have gotten themselves into. I don't think it takes a psychiatrist to perceive the motive for the fasting is somewhat fear based over events unfolding that may cost LCG some money and some very bad internal realizations about how people are treated.

Gospel Jesus said, "Ask whatever you will and I will give it to you." I'm not sure that ever proved true either but it does not say "Beg, Plead, Beseech and Go Hungry when you ask and I'll think it over depending..." Administration called fasts are theological gimmicks, maybe they don't even know it, to shift the burden of decision making from those who really need to make better decisions to "God" so then one may say that whatever happens is "God's will." It is not of course. It is just how things turned out and would have without one minute of thousands fasting.

It is a separate issue perhaps with children fasting for any reason. Over the years I have seen what I consider the more wiser parents not do it with small children of course, leave it up to older children and consider it an issue for those baptised only as to it being "reguired" of them. Seems more sane approach if one is going to dabble in the archaic theology of fasting in the first place. All of the justifications for it seem to be taken out of the Old Testament and the "lighten up" NT is left out mostly. But then again, the old COG guard never spend much time in the NT anyway.

DennisCDiehl said...

However, I was under the impression Sabbath was the first day of camp for all but it appears to be Sunday so there should be great rejoicing in Sunday breakfast, lunch and dinner. Counselors....stand down for now... :) The bigger issues of LCG Presiding motives and intent should still be considered as well as the timing.

No non- Atonement church fast in the past I recall in my own experience was ever called without some issue making the leadership nervous.

DennisCDiehl said...

I'm thinking the whole concept of capricious and out of the blue Church wide fasts issued as "snowflakes from heaven" which I tended to call made up rules and regs from HQ that came down out of the blue right up there with those "To Be Played in All the Churches" stickers on tapes I'd receive far more often than I could stand back in the day.

I admit to deciding for myself and what I then perceived as for the good and worth of the long drives to services by members whether to play them or not. I did listen to them myself to note "this sounds like the last three" and as with the fasts, realized the motive for the taped HQ sermon was not so much for the content but for the contact in keeping the local church HQ oriented during other scandal and drama ridden times.

Moving right along....





Redfox712 said...

Fasting while at a camp. Just when we thought we had heard everything. This just shows once again how LCG is fixated upon serving its leaders. The children deserve better than being told to be a part of this self serving ritual for LCG's 1%.

Anonymous said...

"Relinquish self will and submit to Gods will," is a typical sliver expression. Relinquishing self will implies, and has the flavour of letting someone possess you. This is what ministers and psychopaths crave. Doing things Gods way, and standing up to the evil pressures in society, requires strong intellectual independence, the opposite of 'submitting.'
This is a common ploy in these churches. If they disagree with God, they imply their view point, then use the 'magic' of repetition to mis program peoples minds with their lie.
If you hear repetition in any church, chances are that they are pushing a lie, and they know it.

Stephen said...

Great, abuse children by way of asking them to beg by "afflicting their souls," that Rod's god will allow LCG to stick to people that Rod already stuck it to, and who at this point are seeking redress of grievances. That's exactly the sort of "righteousness" I've come to expect from the "humble servants" of the "one true god" of Herbie and of his minions from my decades served in Armstrongism.

Thank gods Herbie's god doesn't exist.

There may not be much that's particularly just about our "justice system," but at least there's no extra forces out there, putting their thumbs on the scales, so that Rod might be supernaturally assisted in compounding injustice with extraordinary injustice, contrary to the fervent wishes of Rod, yet again...

Isaiah 58:
3 ‘Why have we fasted,’ they say, ‘and you have not seen? Why have we afflicted our souls, and you take no notice?’ In fact, in the day of your fast you find pleasure, and exploit all your laborers.
4 Indeed you fast for strife and debate, and to strike with the fist of wickedness. You shall not fast as you do this day, to make your voice heard on high.

Indeed. That's what this fast is for.
Armstrongites, contrary to their bluster, aren't even serious bible readers. They only read what they want to read, and then they pat themselves on the back that they cracked it open at all, unlike all those "so-called" christians in "the world." How hypocritical is that? And I speak as one who has been forced to admit the error of his ways and repent of that hypocrisy.

This is nothing more than human forces of evil attempting to use their forms of ancient witchcraft to strike again those they've already struck once. What's the difference between Armstrongism and voodoo? Sometimes, the differences are purely superficial.

But then, christianity is just the orthodox form of ancient witchcraft anyway, making Rod Meredith nothing more than a modern witch doctor.

Mickey said...

First and foremost the purpose of the camp is not there to make sure the kids have a goodtime. It is built in to ensure kids will want to go. But it serves other puposes for the cogs. The main one is an attempt to help facilitate a bond between child and church. Secondly it appeases parents who have few other viable alternatives for their Ichildren during the summer months.

Anonymous said...

You people don't get it. Camp starts Monday evening. It has always been optional for children, they will not provide meals during the fast. If they brought food they could eat. Most teenager do choose to fast. This fast is for members. Our children have a choice.

Anonymous said...

Summer camp gives children the experience of natural highs rather drug and 'sin highs.' it does have its benefits.

Connie Schmidt said...

Deceased, buried and departed members of the LCG will be fasting this Sabbath. We need to be following their example!

Byker Bob said...

The important thing to remember is that when an agenda is set, it doesn't always necessarily follow that each individual who is presumed to be part of the collective will totally support that agenda. Most people, to one degree or another, can and do set their own agendas, and these personal agendas enable them to extract from the collective what they actually want or need, while ostensibly still being part of the collective. Authority does not understand this dynamic, and it certainly complicates matters when members who take control, driven by their own agendas, generally keep that process secret. Frankly, an ACOG member would have to be an absolute fool not to have their own personal guiding agenda which takes precedence over the "official" agenda. Not only is that good common sense, and accountability, it is also working out your salvation in fear and trembling (Phil. 2:12-13). Nicolaitane ministers do not seem to be able to grasp the concept of tapping into the church as a spiritual aid or resource. They demand absolute authority, and in some cases, when something like a lawsuit jeopardizes that, they pull out all stops, proclaiming fasts and such.

BB

Anonymous said...

This is why God created drones. I just ordered one thousand Twinkies and one thousand tomatoes be dropped from a drone during the "fast"
Jesus will make sure the tomatoes land in the counselors' eyes so they don't see the kids eating the Twinkies.

from New Jersey said...

No Anonymous LCG ,PCG, XYZ kids have NO CHOICE at all.
Having been a kid in the church I know. If you dont fast you look bad and take flack and heat from ministry and other kids who fast to look good.
Its all about how you look to others in that church.
You are fooling yourself.

Anonymous said...

"Isaiah 58:3 ‘Why have we fasted,’ they say, ‘and you have not seen? Why have we afflicted our souls, and you take no notice?’ In fact, in the day of your fast you find pleasure, and exploit all your laborers.
4 Indeed you fast for strife and debate, and to strike with the fist of wickedness. You shall not fast as you do this day, to make your voice heard on high."

The Rod of god, secretly did what to whom and when?
His selfish unmanly ways backfired, now he plays the victim card and is ever more than willing to victimize everybody in a last ditch effort of desperately proving to anybody how much of a victim he is.

Anonymous said...

I was a kid in the church and had kids in the church. I was given a choice and we gave our children a choice. No wonder you don't believe in the beliefs of our church anymore.
No one is forced to do anything. The people in the church groups I know don't feel the hate I see here. I have friends and family in the LCG & UCG chuches.

NO2HWA said...

Absolutely people were forced to do things. In the Dayton church we were told that as children in elementary school in first grade, that we were to have our las meal and any water at noon the day before Atonement or any declared fast. It was explained to us that the entire point of fasting was to enter your fast HUNGRY. Remember this applied to first graders! I started fasting at age 5, just so how how sick the ruling was.

I remember this vividly because my mother asked the question at Bible Study on a Wednesday night. If children have recess in the afternoons, was it permissible for them to have water after playing outside The answer was NO! After a hot day in the Ohio heat and humidity, little kids could not drink water. The men who declared this should have been arrested for child abuse.

Anonymous said...

Wow! Never heard of this. We ate and drank up till sun down.

NO2HWA said...

That was all thanks to Carn Catherwood.

Anonymous said...

Fasting on Day of Atonement is sundown to sundown.

Anonymous said...

Oh boo hoo! So you had to fast while a child. It builds character and lets the child know about God. You people who left the church are such cry babies!

Byker Bob said...

I'm thinking that with today's smaller numbers, maybe there isn't the massive abuse we used to see, now that congregations in some major cities only have twenty or fewer people attending. It'd be kind of difficult for a prerecorded messenger a thousand miles away to abuse people, so the small congregations might be safe havens. Seems like most of the abuse that's reported is happening primarily in the headquarters areas, where everyones' feet are closer to the fire. Rotten and abusive is considered to be diligent and strong in Armstrongism, which means that those kinds of ministers would be the ones promoted to headquarters positions.

Somebody over at Mike's blog suggested that Ron and Laura Weinland are frequently visiting the church areas that are producing the most revenue. That sounds as if it probably has broader application, and may be true of all the apostles, prophets, and witnesses.

BB

Anonymous said...

Given their difficulty retaining youthful members, 10:31, it doesn't seem that effective.

Anonymous said...

Face Palmer a large percentage of those arriving to LCG camp on Friday night are teen volunteers and families with small children although you are correct that the teen non-volunteer participants will not arrive until Sunday. None of them are likely to pack snacks and eat them because that would expose them to ridicule and judgement and no teen wants to stick out as 'different'. They will all comply even if they don't care about Meredith's plan to "beg God" to help him win the lawsuit.

LCG kids are made to fast regardless of if it's the Day of Atonement or a Meredith sanctioned fast. I was in LCG for almost 2 decades(not something I'm proud of at this point) and I was horrified that parents made children as young as 3 or 4 fast. You would see them languishing in agonizing pain on their blankets during services complaining of how thirsty they were.

There is no way they understood WHY they were fasting and therefore their torture was utterly pointless.

It was just an effort of parents to "outwardly appear" to be super, extra righteous to other LCG members. It was ignorance and vanity.

At headquarters, both Rod McNair and Mike Desimone, among other ministers with small children, made their kids fast when they were WAY too young. It never made any sense to me.

I often thought of the Pharisees with their emphasis on outward appearance and attention to the tithes of mint and cumin while completely ignoring the weightier issues of the law.

That scripture is the epitome of LCG.


Anonymous said...

Anon 10:31 says, "Oh boo hoo! So you had to fast while a child. It builds character and lets the child know about God. You people who left the church are such cry babies "

What, prey tell, does fasting at the age of 5 or even 10 let a child "know about God"? And how does it "build character"?

That is the most ridiculous thing I've heard in a while!

How about LCGers focus more on building Christian characteristics like love, mercy, compassion and a humble heart instead of being so worried that they show how obedient they are to Meredith or try to prove their level of conversion by starving their poor kids who, I promise you, don't gain character, know any more about God or give a hoot about LCG winning the Scarborough lawsuit.

Face Palmer said...

I guess we need some eyewitness accounts of the fasting activities from camp. If what you said about the 3 and 4 year olds is true then the adults who were complicit should have a cheese grater shoved into their rectums and said graters chained to a burning house so the said adults have to either remove the foreign object themselves or burn. Oh wait, for those 20 years you were complicit, so maybe we should give them some of the patience and mercy that we give you.

Anonymous said...

so kids are eligble to fast, but are not elible to be baptized?

Anonymous said...

I wasn't complicit. I didn't force my own kids to participate. Who am I to tell another parent what to do or not to do. Should I have called DSS? I doubt it.

Anonymous said...

Face Palmer needs a Xanax! Holy crap chill dude.

Face Palmer said...

Mission accomplished }:)

Anonymous said...

So does anyone know what the outcome of the Scarborough lawsuit?