Tuesday, May 15, 2018

Racism In The Church


This is a first-hand account of a person who grew up in the church witnessed.  This is just the tip of the iceberg as to what went on.
Racism In The Church:

Armstrong was an extreme racist. It was present on up till the 1970's and remained thereafter, to a lesser degree. However, it was only directed toward Blacks. Asians and Latinos could sit wherever they liked in services. Blacks had to sit in a separate section. They used the back door to enter and exit the building. They parked in a separate lot often having to walk through knee high grass if it hadn't been mowed recently by the property owner.
They could only attend the FOT in Big Sandy TX. Some living closer to other FOT sites would drive all the way across country. One family lived only 50 miles from Jekyll Island had to make a 14 hour drive to Big Sandy. 
However, Latinos and Asians could go to any FOT site. A lady I know who attend AC married a Latino with the church's blessing. Another couple which was Asian and Black married in the church too. Then the Asian wife had to sit in the Black section. Before the marriage she didn't.
A sermon was given in the late 60's about Blacks. I will spare you all the details. In a nutshell, Blacks were designed to work outside and do manual labor. They would be gods just like everyone else who qualified to be in the Kingdom. However, they would be in charge of Agriculture in the 1000 year period.
Although, the church finally allowed Blacks to sit wherever they liked they were way behind the rest of society. The church still had a taboo against White and Black marriages.
Some of Armstrong's true feelings could be felt in his writings.
HWA's Autobiography:
"One of the first men I met was a Negro I shall never forget -- whose name was Hub Evans. One of the men in the store brought him around to me.
“Hub,” he said, “tell Mr. Armstrong how many children you have.”
“Thutty-six, suh,” replied old Hub, promptly and proudly -- “hope t’ make it foty ‘fo Ah die!”
I was not merely amused -- but intensely interested. “Tell me, Hub,” I responded, “how many wives have you had?”
“Only three, suh!” Hub was a proud man."

HWA's Interracial Marriage 1982:
"...A white woman wants to become the wife of a black man. Now I don't know of any cases where a white man wants to marry a black woman. Why is that? Answer that for me! I'd like to have someone give me an answer to that. Why is it our white women want to marry black men? Why is it our black men want to marry white women?..."

Of course, there was plenty of White men that married Black woman. Sigh.

reprinted with permission from a COG Facebook page



37 comments:

RSK said...

Here come the defensives.

Anonymous said...

I was thinking the same thing! Nck is sure to start denying it ever happened.

Byker Bob said...

Being a racist is just like being in an ACOG. In both cases, you’re just robbing yourself, and don’t even know it because you’re in denial. Diversity in all things enriches your life.

BB

Near_Earth_Object said...

At the FOT in Big Sandy, Latinos could sit anywhere they wanted as I recall but they did have a separate "Fun Night" as did the Blacks. Hoeh established the idea that people of different races could not beneficially socialize with each other. Hence, the separate Fun Nights. Meredith struck down the seating segregation practice in Big Sandy at the FOT. I was there. I am not sure why Meredith was motivated to do that. I wonder if there was fear of civil rights groups. The Whites in the audience did not protest that I know of. I asked in prior times why the practice and an Assistant Deacon told me that "God's Church believes in segregation."

I am interested in seeing how many "Holocaust Deniers" will show up to say that they have been in the WCG and never ever heard of such a thing. Like those who deny the advocacy of the extermination of Native Americans, an idea common among WCG members at one time. The "unassailable" logic is "I have never witnessed it so it can't be." That rationale is not a pathway to enlightenment.

Anonymous said...

I remember when I lived in Wyoming a few Native Americans from the nearby Rez would attend Sabbath services sometimes and it seemed to me that they might have felt that they were not a part of the church due to the fact they kept to themselves. I used to shake their hand and make small talk but I never made any longterm friendships with them. I moved away and never knew what happened to them but even in other congregations I seen a bit of racism towards "minorities". Thank God I'm no longer in WCG.

Allen Dexter said...

I was there. It's all too true. Blacks were lesser by birth, the descendants of cursed Ham. I bought in to this for a while. We all did. False beliefs have a way of making idiots out of all of us.

Anonymous said...

Extremely few white men go out with black women; it's almost always the black guy and the white girl. Anyone who pretends otherwise is lying. Why are some people so PC that they have to lie about everything related to race?


DennisCDiehl said...

NEO noted: "Like those who deny the advocacy of the extermination of Native Americans, an idea common among WCG members at one time. "

Honestly, I never heard such a thing but that doesn't mean much since I was not privy to the old time religion of WCG before I came along. It does explain however the reaction I got giving a Feast sermon in Jekyll Island about some concepts we might like to take into the Millennium (Corny I know) in which I used "Touch the Earth" which is an excellent book of Native American quotes about the white man showing up and how their customs and ideas about nature were so ass backwards. For example, blowing their noses and then putting the handkerchief back in their pockets! lol. One of the best was "The West only got Wild when the white man showed up."

At any rate, there were two native American families in the audience and they came up to me with tears in their eyes to thank me for an entire sermon honoring their Native views and suggesting we all could learn something. The next day they gave me five genuine arrowheads from Georgia along with a silver and turquois lapel pin and a wonderful note of thanks. Now perhaps I understand why they thought the sermon was so special to them. I did not know perhaps what they had heard from others about Native Americans vs. British Israelism etc being members of the church.

I'd recommend Touch the Earth for a great insight into Native Views of white folk and their attitudes about nature and culture.

Anonymous said...

did i experience racism growing up in ww, and as an adult in ww & lcg? certainly...look at the history of this nation...racism is a part of its very foundation, and the people of israel do always resist the Holy Spirit, as it is Written...

but i always seperated the cogs flaws and hypocrisy from the Doctrine of the bible that i discovered through being a part of those churches, and by the Holy Spirit, nothing will seperate me from the Principles of the Word of God, least of all the disobedient behavior of His servants...

c f ben yochanan

Anonymous said...

I am interested in seeing how many "Holocaust Deniers" will show up to say that they have been in the WCG and never ever heard of such a thing.

What has this got to do with the holocaust? You sound like Richard Dawkins. He equates anyone who questions evolution with holocaust deniers. Then there are all the global warming people who equate skeptics with "flat earthers" or "denier", implying they are also like holocaust deniers. Maybe YOU are the denier! Yep, you must be. You deny the integrity of anyone with an opinion or experience different from yours.





Anonymous said...

Never mind ancient history, what about those who deny white genocide, which is happening NOW.

Anonymous said...

Some will deny that indians were cannibalizing each other and were illiterate before the white man came and civilized them.

Anonymous said...

Maybe HWA was right. I met a black guy in africa with about 30 kids. I never met a white guy with that many.

Byker Bob said...

I’d have to recuse myself from commenting on that, 4:25, because apparently I am one of HWA’s “few white guys”, and so apparently don’t understand the mentality most of us supposedly have. I prefer Hispanic and Black ladies.

BB

Byker Bob said...

I haven’t seen any white genocide in my neighborhood. Where is it supposedly happening?

BB

Byker Bob said...

The broad majority of Native Americans (1200 separate and distinct cultures at the time of European conquest) did not practice cannibalism. The Aztecs were reputed by their own records to have a ritual involving the eating of a strip of a vanquished enemy’s flesh. Queen Isabella had prohibited the enslavement of Indians unless they were cannibals. Her subjects in the new world often lied to their financial benefit.

Native Americans were fluent and literate in Native American languages.

BB

Feastgoer said...

And yet.... Harold Jackson was an ordained evangelist for decades under HWA. And even paid a prison visit to Malcolm X during those years (or so he said).

So while there was segregation, there still was some degree of respect.

Dr. King was quoted as calling 11:00 on Sunday morning "the most segregated hour in America." A large number of mainstream churches still come across that way today.

RSK said...

Well, you wont like the high number of weddings Ive been to where white men married black ladies, not to mention some of my neighbors (next door to me is a white man with a black wife). But if its really so unusual as you claim, maybe we should be asking why white men are so insecure in this area and white women are not?

RSK said...

I was not thinking of nck. But we do have a few anons and one or two namebearing posters who lose their shit whenever this topic comes up.

What About The Truth said...

HWA's Interracial Marriage 1982:
"...A white woman wants to become the wife of a black man. Now I don't know of any cases where a white man wants to marry a black woman. Why is that? Answer that for me! I'd like to have someone give me an answer to that. Why is it our white women want to marry black men? Why is it our black men want to marry white women?..."

As a young white single member in the early 80's at a FOT singles event there was not one white single girl among the hundreds that would give me the time of day. As I stood idly by, a pretty black girl came up to me to introduce herself. Shortly thereafter one of her friends came over and then more and more girls came over. All of the girls were pretty with wonderful personalities and great conversationalists. At the end of the event my friend Tony came over to me and said, "Man, Chuck, you must have had 25 black girls surrounding you". I thought to myself afterwards wondering if the church would give me a Moses waver concerning no interracial marrying.

Anyhow, HWA was right concerning me - I had no desire to marry one black girl - I had a desire to marry all 25 of those black girls at least for that day.

Near_Earth_Object said...

Native Americans were tribal and fought each other incessantly. So did western Europeans. Native Americans committed atrocities in warfare. So did western Europeans. But there has always been an attempt to justify the destruction of Native Americans because they were horrid in their behavior. This is a concocted justification intended to support the Biblical injunction against the Canaanites and to apply that injunction to Native Americans.

I probably have said that enough.

I enclosed "holocaust deniers" in quotes because I was referring to the application of the principle not the literal fact.

And there was a great genocide of White people in our recent history. It was called WW II and it was carried out by other White people.

Anonymous said...

I'm an old millennial and I saw the end of WCG and the start of GCG/LCG.. I can tell you that the old racist attitudes did not go anywhere. Even when I regarded myself as more aligned with the COG theology, I really really hated the institutional racism. The "cursed" children of Ham... The prohibition or "discouragement" of a white/black marriage, while any other combination was acceptable.. As long as the skin tones didn't vary too much, or it wasn't a white woman getting married, the church could care less..

I felt bad for single black brethren. They were always told by white people that they'd really hit it off with person X in another congregation. Was it due to matching interests or personalities? No, just color.

Oh, and lest I forget.. Part of the Apocolyptic signs of the end... RACE WAR! This was often mentioned in sermons from HQ.

We were told that there's all types of races because God loves variety. Nations would be separate and almost equal in the Kingdom.. With the great Israel (Brits, Yanks, and Israel) presiding over the world.

The church is like the south after they lost the civil war. They rewrite history, make themselves martyrs, and speak of how the church will rise again..

Everyone will pay attention soon.

But, Netflix, Hulu, Crunchyroll, and HBO, and anything you can find on the internet will provide much better entertainment.

The COG is as relevant as Circuit City, Borders Books, Blockbuster Video, and Betamax. Stuck in a cold war mentality, they shake their head at the world, howling gigantic curses upon society. Embracing a quasi-conservative/libertarian view of the world looking upon it with sympathy. Warning that time is short for America, while letting us know that conservative leadership may stay God's hand so the work can be done.


Anonymous said...

Anon 4:36 Maybe you should take a trip to Utah, I'm sure you will find several white guys with 30 or so kids if you look.

nck said...

Thank you RSK, I'll take the not thinking of me as a compliment. :-)

I have been known for seeking more proof on the worst of accusations since that is the practice in penal law. Also I have tried to put things into context of the times and respective societies, which has been labelled as apologetics.

A lot of things people have said ten years ago are "racist and sexist" today. Who am I to deny that the thought patterns of 1890 born people can be labelled as racist.

Yes WCG abided by the local laws of nations. In areas like South Africa, or the Southern States of the USA in the 1960's this (might have) led to situations we would condemn today.


What struck me in the FB piece was the propensity of people in WCG to extrapolate the current into the future. (also extrapolate the current situation into the spiritual)

What I mean by that is that I met many people who extrapolated their current talents exponentially into the dream of the World Tomorrow.

For instance I met unemployed former sailors who dreamt of being Shipraiders in the World Tomorrow, or small business inhouse decorators for being "designers of cities" in the World Tomorrow, or a cab driver being over all transportation from Jerusalem headquarters.


Ok the sermon about the black man over agriculture in the world tomorrow might be a stupid sermon.

However. To admit for a southern born minister that black people could be gods, could govern and perhaps sit in his ancestral mansion in Lousiana and be OVER agriculture could also be described as huge leap in that ministers thinking shredding his personal cultural heritage and upbringing to pieces. From that angle it would be huge, although we would judge it as racism still.

I'm sure the FB poster was frustrated by the sermon. However I hope his remarks were not led by a certain disdain for agriculture by the poster. I would like to remind that the largest part of EU budget goes to agriculture. That the World Tomorrow was regarded an agricultural society. So to have black man (however racist and limiting the sermon might be regarded today) over agriculture would be quite substantial. Although it would not match my dream of ruling over Tatooine and have a beer with BB and the local bezerks at the local renegade bar as perceived by Lucas. (the scriptwriter not the evangelist)

The very reason why the World Tomorrow Broadcasts are saved in the Library of Congress is because of the favorable mention of senators who fought all their lives for the benefit of american agriculture in the mid western states.

Regarding NEO's statement. I do not deny anything that might have been said to him. It's just that if a person happened to be in Dennis's congregation or others he might never heard such statements regarding the native American. As a matter of fact I doubt a sermon would ever have been preached in the Eastern African regions, the Philipines, the students working at the digs, or the Argentina wcg. Therefore my claim is that it was not a major thing, UNLESS one lived in Nebraska or the Plains perhaps.


I do recall people mentioning separated socializing at functions in the 1960's. At worst it would be racism. At best a way of people of same race having a chance to interact or even date. I am sure it was seen as the latter at the time and of course reprehensible today.


nck 1)

nck said...

I know people accomodate easily to wrongs. I have seen 21 year old AC students abide by American alcohol laws in countries where they would have been allowed to sip at 18.
I have seen "MTV" for "black music". Whereas in European nations would broadcast MTV "American music". I have seen European kids with shock in their eyes to learn that Miami Sound Machine was not that big or widely popular in the USA (unless for the latino constituency). Those kids looked upon anything coming from the USA as "American music" and had no clue about "latino, black, country, white preferences, black preferences" music channels.


My point. There is no point.
I hope mankind continues evolving into a better culture through an understanding of other cultures.

nck 2)

nck said...

I do like "Charles the black Prince's" story.

I have been to nations where people make you feel like a moviestar.

While visiting national monuments I have been asked to pose with mamma, granny, the family picture and the aunts from both sides.

On holy sites, groups of 60 year old ladies also insisted on pictures with me.

I felt like a moviestar but am not sure if at home they are laughing their pants of about that tall, skinny person with the strange complexion and have the village smile at them having snapped a picture of such strange curiosity. "I mean.......how do these tall people drive their horse/yak to work.......?" bwahahahaha.

No really.
Chuck, its good to hear about that experience of genuine fun and I am sure the people who took pictures with me also genuinely had a fun time aswell while they seized upon the opportunity to have a good time together as human beings, share bits and pieces and celebrate our common humanity, if even for a moment of peace.

nck

Connie Schmidt said...

I KNOW FOR A FACT--

That no Mongolians were at ANY of the FOT sites in the United States during the 1960s. And if that aint racism, I dont know what is!

Near_Earth_Object said...

To pick up once again on an old theme - Armstrongists do not worship the Christian God. They worship a being known in mythological literature as a Demiurge. If you ask Armstrongists if they worship the God of the Christian movement, they will say "no". Many will have trouble evening defining the cataphatic God of the Christian movement so they can tell you what they don't believe in.

They worship the god that HWA defined. I could list out the characteristics of this god and you would find him to be very much like a created being rather than god, as is the case with a Demiurge.

The interesting thing is that the Armstrogist Demiurge has a racial status - he is racially a White man. As Dean Blackwell once explained: Adam was created in the image of God, Christ was the second Adam, Christ was the express image of God, hence, God looked like Christ and Christ was a White man. Then God was a White man. In fact god looked like an "Israelite", not just any White man, as defined in British-Irealism.

More recent Armstrongists may have never heard this syllogism. And, no doubt, will believe such nonsense could never have possibly been believed by Armstrongists of a few decades ago.

This line of reasoning is the foundation for why White WCG members looked down on people of color, even though the people of color had become a part of the WCG. For some of the White WCG members, this bizarre theology fit with and endorsed the racist attitudes that they brought with them to the WCG. The WCG was a safe harbor for such ideas.

So, I believe the Armstrongist god really is a White man. I just happen to believe that this is not the same god as the God of the Christian movement and it is what, at the root, separates Armstrongism from Christianity.

exarmstrongite said...

Please don't forget Noah was the original white strain. In the Kingdom he will become Preator of Racial Purity.

RSK said...

(Of course, then you have the other kind of white women, the ones that are calling the cops over us pushing our kids in strollers on the sidewalk or returning cricut machines to the store we bought them from...)

Byker Bob said...

Heh! I’ve always said that If you asked most Armstrongites what God looked like, their descriptions would resemble HWA.

BB

Anonymous said...

ive read of south americans of "indian" descent being beaten in spain, africans being victims of hate crimes in *place name of european country here*...

these are facts as well...

c f ben yochanan

Anonymous said...

and, of course, xenophobia is again on the rise in europe...

Anonymous said...

I can't wait for Jesus to Return and to right all wrongs. Wouldn't it be greatest irony if indeed many "blacks" were part of the tribe of Israel?

I'm so glad I left LCG many years ago. In fact I heard not too long ago of a sermon wher Meredith claimed that interacial marriage was a tool of satan! but of corse those words were deleted soon after. Only a few were priviledged enough to hear it, some ministers and "little people".

Anonymous said...

Not too many Asians were "called" because they weren't traditional Christians and never gave a hoot about television evangelists like Herbert and GTA.

Anonymous said...

Whites and blacks in the COGs actually seemed to get along very well as far as I could tell. Better than in the country as a whole. No NFL style protests either.

Anonymous said...

Nowadays, you can identify as whatever you want. Fake black person Rachel Dolezal is back in the news. In her quest for blackness and the affirmative action benefits it includes, she engaged in large-scale welfare fraud.