Dennis On: "I'm Just Joshin' Ya"

"Another theory refers to a man named Josh Tatum, who was accused of passing "Racketeer Nickels" in Boston. Mr. Tatum was unable to either hear or speak, so he never actually said that what looked like five-dollar gold pieces were really gold-plated nickels -- he just gave them to clerks and accepted whatever change was given him. No one was able to testify effectively against him, and he was allowed to go free. Since this happened (if it happened) in1883, about forty years after josh meaning 'banter' appeared, we can also discount this theory.

According to the Random House Historical Dictionary of American Slang, the name Josh was regarded in mid-19th-century America as a typically rural name. A Josh was 'a country bumpkin' or 'a hick', a rustic who was rather slow and not too bright. Here's an 1863 quotation from Hearsill's 1491 Days: "We were 'gobbled up' and taken to the Arkansas Battallion H'd Q'rs ... Luther says that the only thing he regrets in the affair is to be arrested by 'Joshes'." Lacking evidence of any other source, it seems likely to me that josh meaning 'to make fun of' has its origin in this use of the proper name. Joshes, then, were the ones who were joshed, rather than the joshers."

Yahoo Answers

The tale may be apocryphal but the stories are appropriate with regards to the upcoming but now obvious claim by the Apostle Joshua C. Pack that he IS the fulfillment of the historical Joshua the High Priest, who along with the political leader and governor Zerubbabel in the sixth century BCE eventually shamed the people into rebuilding the Temple in Jerusalem after years of captivity.  Of course, this is ridiculous.  Anytime a man sees himself specifically spoken of in the Bible, it always ends in disaster because, of course, it is not literally true.  Such men do not need to congregations.  They need medications.

It is not my purpose here to quote the many assumptions, analogies, imaginings, twisted scriptures and loopy comments of the Apostle Pack.  You can pick out the ones you like here http://rcg.org/sep/news.html  as they are very public and very bold.  But in the final anal-ysis, the Apostle Pack is just "Joshin' the Brethren."  Detailed analogies based on ancient texts written for their own times and not projecting ahead thousands of years do not make truth.  I would challenge the Apostle Pack to practice "in a multitude of counsel there is safety," and bounce his prophetic meanderings off a few genuine theologians or Old Testament scholars.  I am sure they would be more than interested in hearing his interpretation of the meaning of the minor prophet Haggai's experience in rebuilding the Temple after an Israelite return form captivity in the 500's BCE.  I'm thinking the conversation would not last long and when these men returned to their own students would probably share their experience with their students about "I talked with this fundamentalist preacher over the weekend who told me he was Joshua the High Priest and the fulfillment of the mere type Joshua in the minor prophet Haggai.  Let's turn to Haggai for a minute."  

First of all let me get this said and out of the way.  Why do I take such personal exception to David Pack?  I've known him since he was in college.  I have worked around him in adjoining church areas and he was my parents and siblings pastor in Rochester, NY for a time.  My dad spent many hours with Dave visiting as a Local Elder.  We have our own family stories about Dave.  Aside from that, I have come to deeply resent the idea of religious men (not just Dave) who take titles to themselves and then use it to control people or convince them of things that ultimately and simply are not so.  I resent the taking of monies not earned by these types of self appointed ego driven types.  Commanding others to give based on fear, guilt and shame , as the Apostle Pack is very good at, is not earning one's living.  It is taking it from others and unearned.  The Apostle Paul pulled this on people in I Cor. 9 as well where he said something to the effect that if he supplied them spiritual things, what's the big deal if he reaped their physical things.  Please don't ever take any analogies between the Apostle Pack and the Apostle Paul, from me, as a compliment.  They both pulled the same stunts with people, had no intention of cooperating with others and either were in charge or they didn't play.  Bending the rules to suit them was also a stunt both were often wont to do.  In the end Paul had to eat crow on his grand views about prophecy and his place in it as will Dave.

We have witnessed the title taking tour of several lone, "I am an Apostle," "I am THAT Prophet," and "I am A Prophet" types since HWA was also christened an Apostle by Dr. Hermann Hoeh.  Big titles, in my experience, are for small men.  I recall once I was at a gathering in Manchester, Kentucky at a member home and I was talking with some fellow I didn't know.   I introduced myself and he said,  "I'm the Mayor of Manchester", but he said it in a way that it was clear I was supposed to do something or say something that was amazed by this fact.  I just said, "nice to meet you."  I was tempted to say, "Weren't you just on 60 minutes as a rather shady character," but I resisted.  60 Minutes ran a segment on Manchester, KY because it was a place where getting killed or disappearing was not all that uncommon.  I had a deer rifle with a really BIG scope on it put to my head there by a women that was pretty sure her husband was not going to be baptized by me anytime soon.  "Shoot him, not me," came to mind.  The story of my escape is awesome but I spare you :)

Another time in KY, the mayor of Somerset,Ky "bought" five cases of oranges from a church member but did not pay.  The member was nervous to deliver them so I did. It was obvious this small man, who had a striking resemblance to GTA, was expecting me to give him the five cases of oranges.  Bzzzzzzzzzzzz, thanks for playing now pay.  I sat there and made it equally obvious he owed for the oranges.  He got the hint and since he did not know me nor could figure me out, he paid.  I assume I would not get any good ol' boy favors from him should I need them in the future. Arrogant little pr.....

In some ways I feel sorry for Dave Pack and in other ways I am intrigued by his personality and claims.  He has not changed one bit since I knew him in his early 20's.  This is who he is and how he thinks.  Whether it be narcissism for which there is precious little successful treatment or possibility of change or something else, it is a dangerous path to go down when mixed with religious zealotry and ideas of special ness, being even spoken of in the Bible.  Those who sit in services hoping that these statements of special ness,  both for themselves and of their Apostle, are going to get hurt.  I have listened to more than one non-member mate talk to me about the damage that is being done to their children and member partner and everyone's relationship to each other.  The Apostle Dave is building up both a following and an anti-following who follow him.  It is no surprise to me that if you are uninvited to RCG or show up on the property without permission, getting the police called on you is pretty much a given.  You can't demand a member destroy the personal family resources and wealth along with retirements and such and not expect some backlash.  The Clarion Call sermon is still to me one of the most stupid, bullying and obscene sermons any minister, real or fake ever could have given.  I would love to see that quoted in the Akron Beacon Journal to balance the community smooze.

At any rate, The (also self appointed) David C. Pack is Joshin' everyone but it is really not funny.  It is a lie based on an analogy that has no reality in fact.  It also is going to lead to lots of heart ache, resentments, ruined lives and lessons once again learned about trusting religious leaders who lose sight of their own humanity and self.  While we may poke fun of Dave's statements, ideas and puff age , it is not really funny because of where it is going to end up.

We are all able now to look back at the legacy of the Armstrongs.  When we were caught up in it, and please understand, I believed in the WCG view of the Bible with all my heart until I didn't, you could not have driven us away.  Had anyone told me what I know myself because I have done the homework to reeducate myself, back then, I would have simply thought it was Satan endeavoring to get me off track.  I could not be here if I had been there is simply my own explanation of the whole experience.  I may have thought like a child, and those in the various one man driven splinters still do in my view, but experience will drive the child out of you if you allow it to.  I have never been sure the Apostle Paul actually wrote I Cor 13 because it is so unlike him in his other writings. But perhaps the man, seeing that all his bluster and egocentric rants and ideas were bullshit, woke up and realized what an ass he had been on many topics and how many people he had not shown love to, which was the greater goal than promoting failed prophecy.  Prophecy frankly is for fools.  Where has "prophecy" ever taken sincere members of most fundamentalist churches?  Into madness or skepticism I'd say.   

Recently, Gary has been running pictures of the tearing down of the physical campus to make room for more profitable ventures.  I can't say it is not emotional and not painful to see the pictures.  I got married in the Fine Arts Hall and "educated" in all things Bible in it.  It's demise and being hauled away was prophetic of both.  Had someone told me at 18 when I sat there listening to Roderick C. Meredith teach me the "Harmony" of the Gospels, how I was going to understand them later in life and all that was going to happen, well...I would not have believed it though one rose from the dead as they say. 

My experience with WCG reminds me of the Buddhist explanation for how we often experience life. 

When I was young, mountains were just mountains, rivers were just rivers and trees were just trees

But when I got older mountains were not just mountains, rivers were not just rivers and trees were not just trees

But now that I am old, mountains are just mountains, rivers are just rivers and trees are actually just trees.

I suppose if you don't get the meaning of this, I can't explain it to you.

So....The Apostle Joshua C. Pack is "Joshin'" everyone with  his newly adopted title and calling.  Somewhere along the line he either went from "Watcher" to "Evangelist" (although he may have skipped this step as I don't recall him calling himself this), to Apostle and now to Joshua the High Priest.  To me it sounds both terribly silly but also insane.  He is this to himself and I suppose he is this to those who endure the hour upon hour and line upon line of proof speaking and texting to get the mind to accept this, but it is still not true.  Dave Pack has woven a clever analogy taken from an obscure book that most Christians never heard of and making it mean what it never meant.  Ministers make scriptures, analogies and stories in the Bible mean what they never meant all the time.  Even the "Matthew" of the Gospels , is master at this with his 'thus it was fulfilled' passages about the birth of Jesus, in which he twists and manipulates the Old Testament to mean what it never meant to tell his story. He does this because he has no real clue how, when or where Jesus was born.  "Luke" of course never read "Matthew's" account so tells a completely different story.  Both are inaccurate and made up.  That is a theological fact and not at all hard to see if you take an honest look.  You know.."sit before the facts as a little child..." and all.

Those who get "Joshed" by this new rendition of Haggai's High Priest are going to get hurt.

Simply said, Dave Pack is not an Apostle in any reality (whatever Apostle means in our day and age),  unless sending yourself counts. Yes, even the Apostle Paul did this too so I guess one can claim that as the authoritative Biblical example.  It's a lousy example and thousands of men and women have used it to promote their own silly or dangerous agendas throughout history, but nevertheless, a common way of separating oneself form the pack...no pun intended.   The recent defecation of Dr. Robert Thiel, formerly of LCG, and selp appointment as a Prophet is equally as silly.  Dave Pack is not any real Joshua the High Priest.  That is his analogy gone haywire.  It is merely and analogy and we all know how analogy minded HWA and WCG could get to claim powers they did not have and perspectives they really should not have taught.  Being born on eagles wings and Aaron and Miriam contending with Moses come to mind as analogies pulled out of the hat when needed to inspire or warn.   Korah being told "well Korah, with ideas like that, really big things are opening up for you," also comes to mind.

Personality, I am nobody.  But I am not willing, with my background and lessons learned in WCG to give Dave Pack, or anyone else who makes great claims for themselves, a pass if they are going to be so public about it.   No one stood up to the Armstrongs when they claimed special things about themselves to stood up to those who made those claims for them.  I sat through many a Gerald Waterhouse spiel saying nothing when in my head it was a constant "like you can prove that," "that's the most stupid thing I have ever heard," or "this guy needs a woman."  The day came when I told him, finally, that when he visited the area, he caused more problems than he solved and I was no longer going to answer the questions and concerns he raised in the minds of the members.  I would simply refer them to him to answer.  He just looked at me like I was stepping out of line.  It was then I also asked what he was going to say when HWA died.  As I have said before his answer took me down another few notches towards giving up on WCG.  "I'll believe it after three days and three nights," was his answer.

I thought he was Joshin' me.............He wasn't and neither is Dave Pack which is equally as disturbing and does not bode well for the emotional, mental and spiritual health of those that allow such foolishness to go unchallenged. 

"In utopia.....The mastermind is driven by his own boundless conceit and delusional aspirations, which he self-identifies as a noble calling. He alone is uniquely qualified to carry out this mission. He is, in his own mind, a savior of mankind, if only man will bend to his own will. Such can be the addiction of power. It can be an irrationally egoistic and absurdly frivolous passion that engulfs even sensible people. In this, mastermind suffers from a psychosis of sorts and endeavors to substitute his own ambitions for the individual ambitions of millions of people.”

― Mark R. Levin

contact Dennis at   DennisCDiehl@aol.com

Dennis On: Dave Pack: "...I have the authority to tell you to do it..."

"...I have the authority to tell you to do it... I have the moral and spiritual, and ecclesiastical authority to tell you to do what I have also done"

 David C Pack

The Clarion Call

Actually, no...David C. Pack  has no authority , moral, spiritual or ecclesiastical over anyone.  Any authority he claims to have is self appointed authority.  Recall how David became an Apostle.  He declared himself one based on his ideas of all that he believes went before him and pointed to this obvious conclusion.  Obvious to him maybe but not so obvious to the rest of mankind.

He's doing it again with the lie that somehow a minor prophet in Israel, 2500 years ago actually had David in mind as the fulfillment of the mere type Joshua the High Priest was in Haggai's day.  Well, perhaps Haggai was not in on the ultimate truth and it is God who knew David C. Pack was the chosen one millennia into the future.  Of course, God isn't talking so one is stuck with David C Pack's explanation of this truth.  The problem is that it is not true in the least.  It is made up truth. It is a theological fairy tale.  It is an analogy gone berserk and man spiraling out of moral, spiritual and ecclesiastical control.

I personally feel that David C Pack's The Clarion Call, will prove to be one of the greatest public speaking mistakes an authoritarian minister such as Dave could have made.  Few comment on its aggressive and threatening tone.  Perhaps only the theologically brain dead have no reaction other than obeying it, but I can't imagine most aren't appalled by the sheer arrogance and aggressive bullying it contains.

Again, some of David C Pack's more notable and outright lies about what you must do or how you can go about it to "pull big triggers" and deplete your own resources and increase his.  I suppose if you do so you can claim to be a type of John the Baptist in that  "I must decrease while you must increase."  

Lie #1 

"Husbands...'well, my wife is not in the church'...tell her...'you don't have a voice woman' ""Go get those assets and get them here"

 If you can't perceive this is a lie, no one can help you.  Even I recall there is neither male nor female, bond or free that does not have equality in the genuine teachings of Jesus. Galatians 3:28.   Women have plenty of voice in the real world and are every bit the equal of men. To believe otherwise is fundamentalist blather.

Lie #2

"We are not a splinter"

Of course you are.  Splinter may be too generous but you have splintered off of three religious organizations before coming to rest in your own.  The reason you are the head of your own religious organization is that you have never been able to successfully work WITH anyone without taking over.  It's just the kind of person you are.  In the business world it's called not being a team player. It's also called going rogue because you so badly want to be what you want to be when others question it.

Lie #3

"I'll say it again, we are talking about liquidating existing assets...it all belongs to God and the brethren"

Actually, no.  One's resources belong to THEM.  No real God actually needs your money and it certainly does not belong to the brethren nor do their resources belong to you.  I bet anything that if I asked for Dave's Cup of Elijah to put on my desk for a bit he'd say no. Can I borrow your car?  No!  Can I live in your house rent free?  No!  God owns the cattle on a thousand hills.  If God needs actual money, He can sell some of those without any pain or sacrifice on the part of the brethren.  You may give as you are able to whomever you wish for whatever reasons, but it is yours to give and not theirs to take. It's "Give as you are able," not "Give as you are told."

Lie # 4

"If you are not ready to distribute what you have...you don't believe the flow of prophecy"

Wrong...First of all don't tell people what they believe or don't believe and secondly disconnect that belief or disbelief from proving it by sending money to the Apostle. That is manipulation at its worse.  Frankly, whatever flow of prophecy the Apostle Josh believes he understands is questionable at best.  It's a line that has been used on humans for at least the past 2000 years.  

Lie # 5

"This is announcing the last blast, the clarion call as it were, to finish the work...Whether it is 4,5,7, 9 years to go, God knows"

Of course it is not the last anything and this was spoken five years ago.  There will be many more last blasts because last blasts motivate.  Last blasts are like soons, shortlys and August 30, 2013s. 

Lie # 6

"Get it now when it requires faith... when you are dead you don't need it... if you named us in your wills, it can take us months or years to get it"
"The wives in the faith will say give everything you can...We don't have the luxury of waiting years...today, leaving everything in your will simply doesn't work"

 

What do you mean "we"?   You maybe. However,  this has a smattering of truth in it but the one glaring problem is that one is not yet dead and therefore does need their resources to live. I don't need resources when I am dead.  I do, however need food and shelter while alive.   Now this may be a call to die so Josh can live but that's not a good enough reason to send in your estate proceeds before you actually die.  This is a pretty lame statement actually and one could just as easily ask The Apostle Josh to sell his campus now so when he dies the brethren aren't stuck with having it hauled away in trucks or turned into Condos for retiring ministers in LCG, UCG or PCG.

Lie # 7

"Now you just have a second mortgage... and frankly we flee before most of it ever becomes due"

Oh now...this is a doozy.  Even sounds like deliberate fraud to me but what do I know.  Someone needs to tell Dave's creditors, well if it is not just you, of his real loan repayment plan.

And fix what you can...before you sell out

Lie # 8

"There is only two positions you can take regarding all that I have mentioned, only two, there is no middle ground. You're either going to yield, to submit and to follow, the clarion call that the time is now or you're not."

Actually no, while I might not choose to yield, to submit and to follow as you demand, I can do or not do it a hundred different ways. There is always middle ground. That' why we read dumb stuff in the Bible like.... 

“Come now, let us reason

 together, says the Lord:though your sins are like scarlet,
    they shall be as white as snow;
though they are red like crimson,
    they shall become like wool."

Now if the Lord , of the Old Testament, can ask for us to reason together, I'm sure you could be more polite and less into the only course being that  yield , submit and follow bullshit you come up with as one of only two alternatives. 

 The point is that I can make my own "give as I am able" choices.  It's actually in the Bible.  Well, it's in the New Testament so if the Apostle Josh needs help finding it, easily done. 

Lie #9

"And this is the real test of Laodicea... either hold on to your assets... or give it... God is in this decision, no question."

Yes question and don't yell at us.  The admonition in Revelation to the Laodiceans had nothing to do with sending all their money somewhere else to someone else to prove anything. .  It's a statement of spiritual commitment and hanging in there unrelated to building an empire for the Apostle.  

Lie # 10

"This is the Laodicean age...Be careful that you don't tell us how to spend your assets... It belongs to God.. You don't tell God or His servants how to spend it"

 

No, you need to be careful how you ask for my assets.  If it truly belongs to God, you aren't him. So how about I throw my assets up in the air and what goes up God can take and what comes down he doesn't need and is mine?  You already  used some of my resources to buy that damn Cup of Elijah for $25,000 for you.  Why on earth would not think I might not wish to tell "God's servants" what I thought about that?  Do you ever say thank you?

Lie #11

"There is only one place He works...Where the...work is...that's where God is working...one elder commented here at headquarters, if people can't be motivated by a clarion call to finish the work such as this, why will those same people somehow believe the internal signal given to the church of the 1335? Why would they believe it?"

               

Oh you are so full of prunes.  You are the only place you think your God is working.  And besides, how does this God communicate these facts and realities to you?  Feelings?  Emotions?  Egocentric thinking?  Voices in your head?  Visions and hallucinations?  Mental illness?   Hunches?  Personal goals?  None of these are actually good enough reasons to think you are correct on this point. I don't know where all God is working or even at times what he/she is thinking or up to, but you only?   I don't think so.  And this "Internal Sign" thing is a bit disturbing.

Lie # 12

"...Go get a big chunk out of your house...their assets, IRAs, and pension funds...(e). Ask God to move specific properties...that they have told us they want to sell. Pray that these properties move...that is part of what this fast is about"

Noooooo, this fast is about compliance and doing what you are told.  This fast was about giving members time to wallow in fear, guilt and shame for being less than the kind of Christian the Apostle Josh demands, for his sake, not God's, they be.  Josh wanted you to get close to his concept of god, not any real God.  It is designed for you to participate in group think and pressure.  Did anyone finish this fast and say, "God told me not to sell my house, give my retirement or pull any big triggers at this time."?   Probably not.  Did everyone sent it in?  Probably not.  

The Apostle Joshua C. Pack and all other human beings , be they preachers, ministers, apostles, prophets or lunatics do not have the authority to tell you anything or command you do anything.  They can of course put you out of their organization for not doing so, but in the real world that would be called a blessing.  Reclaim you own power when it comes to these ridiculous declarations of how an Almighty God thinks, what He needs, who HE likes and doesn't and what on His or Her green Earth He/She is doing.    The only person you will ever hear "Depart from me, I never knew you," will be the Apostle Josh should you ever ask for your monies back to live your actual life and not the fake one Josh has planned for you if you do as you are told and believe with all your heart that he actually has moral, spiritual and ecclesiastical authority over you.  He does not. No one does unless by your permission.

  contact Dennis at   DennisCDiehl@aol.com

Bob Thiel Says Jesus Never Had A Butt Crack Stamp and Neither Should You!

God's greatest gift to the humanity (after Dave Pack, of course) is back with a video hating on tattoo's.  Thiel says if you have one it is a sign you are a harlot or a whore.  He goes on to quote the story a a Hollywood actor who got a tramp stamp when she was younger and is now in the process of having it removed.  Thiel focuses a lot on the tramp stamp and how it is a sign the woman who has it is a harlot because no one can see it other than the person having sex with her.  He also blames tattoos mostly on women as he focuses on them having them more than men.

You are also a follower of the dwarf god Bes and are involved in demonism if you have one.

If it's a Bible verse would Bob be OK with it?

Bob Thiel: His Magical God Causes Heat Wave Over US After DOMA Overturned

Bob Thiel, the non-ordained self-appointed false prophet of the Continuing Ed Church of God is back jumping to conclusions about his magical god today.

Thiel thinks that the heat wave that hit the US this weekend was god being really pissed that DOMA was over turned and gay couples can get married.  I find that laughable for nothing more than that the ,COG's never  valued the sanctity of marriage that much anyway.  The Church, instigated by Rod Meredith, actively broke up thousands of loving couples because of Herb's idiotic remarriage doctrines.  Then we had the ministers and ordained men hopping from bed to bed in their congregations.  We had BOTH of the top church leaders having illicit sex with daughters and coed's.

Thiel writes:

A massive heat wave has hit the USA shortly after the US Supreme Court overturned the Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA) to support the homosexual agenda.

30 June 2013

Temperatures in Las Vegas shot up to 115 degrees on Saturday afternoon, just two degrees shy of an all-time record, as the Desert Southwest continued to stagger under a relentless heat wave…

Large swaths of California sweltered under extreme heat warnings, which are expected to last into Tuesday night — and maybe even longer.
In Southern California, Palm Springs peaked at 122 while the mercury in Lancaster set a record at 111, according to the L.A. Times…
Phoenix hit 119 by mid-afternoon, breaking the record for June 29 that was set in 1994.  http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/06/29/heat-west-temperature-record-high/2475701/

Could the extreme weather be at all related to the growing legal acceptance of homosexual marriage and other abominations in the USA?

 If you are going to attribute the heat to a magical god then perhaps the blame needs to be directed to towards the false prophets Gerald Flurry and Dave Pack who have lied through their teeth lately and who preach heretical bullshit.  I think God is more pissed at that than the gay couple down the street who have been together for 27 years getting married.