Friday, June 6, 2014

UCG: World Is In Abject Ungodly Lawlessness While We Try And Find New Younger Leaders




Roy Holladay sent out a letter to the UCG membership the other day bemoaning the fact that UCG needs some new faces in its leadership and that the world is in "abject ungodly lawlessness."

The UCG keeps reelecting the same tired old men over and over for the last 20 some years.  Until they let their men use their brains and step outside the box UCG is just going to sink further and further into oblivion.   Old and tired ways are always more comforting and safe that stepping off the edge of the cliff and reinventing yourself.




Related to this is a critical fact: we need today a new generation of leaders in development for the Church of God. This certainly is not a comment deriding our present leadership, but represents a realistic acknowledgement of a necessity for the continuation and growth of the Church. We need a fresh generation of leaders who are willing to step up, absorb, reflect, and pass on God’s way of life by their living example and by their words. As Victor reminded the ABC students –we need leaders who have lived the Word of God and who can pass it on. Paul explained the same principle to Timothy in 2 Timothy 2:2: “the things that you have heard from me among many witnesses commit these to faithful men who will be able teach others also.”


Allow me to share some personal thoughts. To me, this 21st century generation increasingly shows the signs of being biblically distinct. While we obviously don’t (and cannot) set dates (Acts 1:7), we certainly can see and experience increasing waves of abject ungodly lawlessness on a global scale. Given all that, is it possible that we are closer to the cusp of a new age–”the world to come”–the long-awaited Millennial age? Whether we are or not, Jesus emphatically said that we must act like it, that we must have a sense of deliberate and focused urgency (Matthew 24:42), regardless of where we are from a prophetic position. Will we be the generation that will bridge the gap between both worlds? Truly only God knows.

19 comments:

Connie Schmidt said...

Roy is correct on the need for a new generation of leaders.

Anonymous said...

What could possibly change for the better? The new generation of leaders will be retreads from the last gasps of a dying A.C.

They will be equally as socially crass and spiritually blind as the old parasites on the UCG payroll today.

Same stagnation just a younger fool.

Black Ops Mikey said...

The UCG should go out of existence along with every other sect of the Cult of Herbert Armstrong Mafia, since we have proved British Israelism wrong and it is the core of their religion. It is a completely daft religion with no viability at all, no matter how reasonable it might seem.

When United goes out of business, then absolutely no leaders should be needed.

The religion can neither be fixed nor salvaged.

Byker Bob said...

They need to get brave and to find a new religion, one that new leaders would be able to do something with.

BB

Anonymous said...

Good grief, Holladay and company have been saying this same sh!t for 15 years, and yet they have a track record of rejecting just about every opportunity to create and promote a new generation. In their eyes, the only way to lead is if one graduates from ABC or AC. Nevermind this is not a realistic opportunity for most of the membership. It's true there was a rash of promotions/ordinations (same thing) right after the COGWA split but that was purely out of necessity. If not for that you wouldn't have seen nearly the number of ordinations that year.

old EXPCG hag said...

... We need a fresh generation of leaders who are willing to step up, absorb, reflect, and pass on God’s way of life by their living example and by their words.

fresh generation?...pass on God's way of life by their living example and by their words?

Was there ever a former generation doing this??

Allen C. Dexter said...

A new religion, BB? The whole problem with the whole damn world is religions and they just keep on proliferating?

Anonymous said...

Roy Holliday wrote: "...we certainly can see and experience increasing waves of abject ungodly lawlessness on a global scale..."

Well, duh, has that lawlessness not been the case since those days of the most subtil beast of the field messing around with the minds of Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden? What's new?

Roy further writes: "...Will we be the generation that will bridge the gap between both worlds? Truly only God knows..."

Of course God knows. Isn't it said of God:

"Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world." Acts 15:18

But that's God's works: not Roy Holliday's works or the works of anybody in his man-made association.

If God's Church exists, and Christ Heads up that Church, wouldn't Christ be involved in the leadership of that Church and not be concerned about the problems that Roy, Vic Kubic, etc. are so concerned about?

Based upon what has come out of the United Association (yes, COGWA too, etc.) all that seems to be evident is a lot of the same old milk......and junk food. Milk being for example their writing (as in their Good News mag) about law, tithing, meats...basic principles. Junk Food being their concern with prophecy, much of which is false. Yes, when is that "second coming" really going to happen after all? Where are those "10 kings?"

What seems to come from the xcog leadership appears to come from the mouths of babes. Where is the strong meat?

"For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat." Hebrews 5:12

Roy Holliday wants to focus on a new, younger, generation of "leaders?" Where is the strong meat from the older leaders?

"But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil." Hebrews 5:14

If I didn't know better, based upon WCG, United Association, cogwa, living, etc., I would have to conclude that God's Church just has to be in operation someplace else.

What happened to that "one Church" they all used to believe in? If God does not operate in confusion, then God can't be dealing with a bunch of groups with all sorts of scattered-brain thinking so differently from one another.

Oh, and that "abject ungodly lawlessness" again, which Roy thinks is such a big deal today!

Just what would some "new generation," no matter the age, of individuals do during their supposed Mickey Mouse Millennium, because the following happens after that 1,000 years?

Revelation 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

It appears that Satan will be as successful at deception (remember that "junk food?") after 1,000 years as that thing is today!

Where is the United association going to make any real difference either in the future, or today, with whatever they do?

Now, those of God's Church? That's perhaps a different story, but an association, or groups, or organizations don't make up God's Church.

If God were to work with individuals, I believe He would consistently do it like He did it with Jesus Christ (Only the First of the Firstfruits to be sealed (reminds me of Pentecost!!)) and the things that were accomplished in His life:

"Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God DID by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:" Acts 2:22

And that would also include the distribution of milk and meat without any of the junk food...

John

Black Ops Mikey said...

Well, OK.

Here's what I want to know: Are these younger leaders going to support stalking and fondling and protect them?

Or they the ones from the church cruise where they went out on the Sabbath and went parasailing while the UCG minister cowered in his cabin?

Will this new leadership reject the false prophecy of Herbert Armstrong and ditch British Israelism? Will they finally admit that the Feasts are all Olde Testament Christianity embedded in the Temple worship and animal sacrifices and move away from them?

If they were to do that, why, they'd be... of the Church of God Seventh Day. All they would have to do is embrace Jesus.

Unless they want to give up the Sabbath too and become members of the Grace Communion International.

Why reinvent the wheel and sliced bread?

David said...

When your definition of "leader" is "someone who will do exactly what we tell them and agrees our failed approach has been the right one" it is hard to find new ones. It excludes most of the young/middle-aged people in UCG and COGWA.

Retired Prof said...

Roy Holladay says: "Whether we are [closer to the cusp of a new age] or not, Jesus emphatically said that we must act like it, that we must have a sense of deliberate and focused urgency (Matthew 24:42), regardless of where we are from a prophetic position."

A profound insight here, which Roy himself probably does not recognize. It holds true not just for prophecies of the end times, but for all doctrines of UCG and the rest of Armstrongism. In fact, it holds for all proselytizing religions everywhere and every when. Let me paraphrase Roy:

"Look, what we are teaching is a crock of shit. You've got to act like you believe it anyway, with all the zeal you can fake. Participate in our rituals. Observe our taboos. Give us money. Make converts, so they will give us money too."

Back in the old days I spoke with a WCG minister who shared my doubts about British Israelism. He said that error at the core of the Armstrong doctrine made no difference; the choice between eternal life and the Lake of Fire was still true. I spoke last week with an Orthodox Jew. He told me he had a conversation with his Rabbi, who had objected to the extra dietary restrictions one family who attended their Shul imposed. He said, "Judaism makes no sense. If the children see that their parents' other ideas make no sense, they will throw Judaism out along with that nonsense." I once read about a prison chaplain who said what he did for men condemned to die was to give them hope. Not "save them from damnation"--just "give them hope."

In short, religion is the grown-up equivalent of the Santa Clause ruse.

Anonymous said...

Someone I knew in the congregation in Toledo, Ohio -- this was the early 80s -- recalled this about the mid-70s: he worked with the youth, and whenever the subject of the immediate future came up, he said, there were several of them who were very forthcoming with the fact that staying in the church was NOT part of the plan. As soon as they had charge of their own lives, bye-bye!!!

Obviously, the alienation and disgust from all things Worldwide Church of God had done its task. Can we doubt that this happens still? The reason the next generation of church leaders are not visible is . . . but maybe God will do some miracle and bring them back. Or bring new ones! Ha!

P.S. If any had returned . . . Toledo was the place and that was the time when the local ministry coddled and fussed over David Hoover, later David ben Ariel, Herbert-blogger extraordinaire. They'd've run right back out, screaming.

Anonymous said...


"...we certainly can see and experience increasing waves of abject ungodly lawlessness on a global scale."


I both saw and experienced all sorts of "abject ungodly lawlessness" INSIDE the UCG.

It appeared that the UCG absolutely loved such behavior, and wanted to fill the church with it.

Ed said...

I would suspect that there are few young people that attend UCG. What is the average age of the UCG membership? 50,55?

Anonymous said...

You saw and experienced all sorts of "abject and ungodly lawlessness" inside the UCG? That's hard to swallow! I know that there are "tares" among the "wheat". I'm sure your experiences were with a few and not the whole congregation. I assure you that the church DOES NOT condone such behavior. I'm sure that if the Pastor of that area was informed of such behavior, that he would make sure that it would be stopped.

Black Ops Mikey said...

I'm sure that if the Pastor of that area was informed of such behavior, that he would make sure that it would be stopped.

You mean like the stalking?

Nah, uh!

The fondling?

Nah, uh!

And anyway, they teach British Israelism and that's a lie. Can anyone trust them?

Nah, uh!

Anonymous said...


Anon said..."You saw and experienced all sorts of 'abject and ungodly lawlessness' inside the UCG? That's hard to swallow!"

Yes, it was rather hard to swallow! But it was what it was. So swallow.


Anon said..."I know that there are 'tares' among the 'wheat'. I'm sure your experiences were with a few and not the whole congregation."

The tares are totally out of control in the UCG. In the UCG it could be described better as the occasional wheat among the tares, with the UCG leaders deliberately trying to rip out the wheat and replace it with more tares. It is widely understood that the UCG is heading back into the world under some of the very same leaders who helped the Tkaches to destroy the WCG.


Anon said..."I assure you that the church DOES NOT condone such behavior. I'm sure that if the Pastor of that area was informed of such behavior, that he would make sure that it would be stopped."

I assure you that the UCG DOES condone such behavior. The UCG's Tkach-style thinking is that allowing people to behave wickedly is showing “love” to them and that to say anything against evil behavior would be harsh and “unloving”--as well as risky for the pastor's job. For example, a pastor in the WCG lost his job after one old pervert now in the UCG complained to the Tkach Headquarters about the pastor not wanting to go along with the pervert's plan to divorce and remarry. There is probably no way that a UCG pastor could ever do anything about all the malicious, lying perverts in the UCG even if he wanted to—and they don't want to; they like the numbers.


Anonymous said...

A few comments......

First..... What's with people wanting to glorify and sugarcoat the past, calling it "the good old days"? I suppose that such a re-imagining of history is helpful if a person wants to believe the present is awful and getting worse by the second.
I read 'The Good Old Days: They Were Terrible!'. It was light reading but informative, and I recommend it.
Anyway, the old preacher shtick is to make the sheep believe the world is getting more and more terrible(via Satan/demons) compared to the good old days, and how donations will help fight Satan and the uber-horrific future that's so mega-scary.
Preachers say things like "In the future, Christians will be burned to death and slaughtered in the United States!" and that's effective in cementing their sucker's faith and filling the coffers- insuring that those preachers will have lots of money and live high on the hog. It's amazing , how many suckers fall for such hogswalluppy sales techniques.

Second..... Connie Schmidt said, "Roy is correct on the need for a new generation of leaders.", and Anonymous said, "As soon as they had charge of their own lives, bye-bye!!!"

If, by "the need for a new generation of leaders", she means MEMBERS who will begin to LEAD THEMSELVES instead of listening to a cloistered group of self-serving crusty old men, and LEAVE THE UCG, I wholeheartedly agree! Buh-bye, UCG!

Third...... Someone mentioned that the UCG keeps electing the same leaders over and over again. This is not true. NO ONE in the general membership gets to vote. It's only the ELDERS in the UCG who vote, and they ONLY vote for THEIR FELLOW ELDERS. The UCG is NOT a democratically voting organization. It's totally ELITIST, with only the elite voting for their fellow elite buddies.
Not a single regular member of the United Church of God EVER gets to vote on who is going to LORD IT OVER THEM and LIVE OFF OF THEIR TITHE MONEY.

Fourth...... Was David Hoover (later David ben Ariel- the worst and most prolific armstrongist internet troll ever) really once "coddled and fussed over" by UCG's ministry in Toledo?
Too funny!

Anonymous said...

"I assure you that the church DOES NOT condone such behavior. I'm sure that if the Pastor of that area was informed of such behavior, that he would make sure that it would be stopped."

How can you be so sure of what would happen in a hypothetical situation?

(Especially given that leaders of the UCG hierarchy went to court to defend a stalker in their midst who was on trial.)

Don't believe it? Read the transcripts. It's absolutely disgusting.