Wednesday, June 15, 2016

UCG: It's Not A Salvation Issue




Rumors have been swirling around for the last year and and a half that changes were coming to church doctrines in UCG. The UCG spin doctors immediately jumped into gear and said NOTHING was being changed.

Where have we all heard that before?  From these very same men who lied as WCG paid employees that nothing was being changed doctrinally. Some if them said that any changes that might be coming were "not salvation issues" and not to worry about it.  Well we all saw how that panned out!

While these very same men, now sitting in lofty positions in UCG, were denying changes, they knew things were going to change and immediately started plotting and scheming on how to continue their money stream once thy were out of jobs.

Now these men are sitting pretty in UCG, financially secure for the rest of their lives. So secure that they feel that reformations needs to come to UCG.  Theses were the very same men who supported the changes in WCG. Even though they jumped ship, many of theses men still hold on to the reformations that Tkach Sr. instituted in WCG.

The track record in the church is well established that when ever the leadership starts denying something they are either guilty of it or that have plans to do what they are accused of. Lying has never been an issue in the leadership of the Church of God.

When the troubles started recently in a Canadian UCG over changes happening, the members were told that these things were NOT salvation issues and that they should not worry about them.

To show how unconcerned theUCG  ministry is about members questioning them, the minister in Canada told the upset members to leave if they did not like the subtle changes.

We would never have heard a comment like that out of the ministry from the past. you were either told to be quiet or disfellowshipped.  Now they just don't care.

Part of the reason this pastor could care less is that he is only a year short of retirement. Why should he care if he loses members?  He is set for life.  The boys in Cincinnati have guaranteed that.

It’s going to be in interesting summer in UCG and the rest of the Churches of God.  Meredith and Flurry have had severe health issues, strokes, and are mentally deteriorating.  Stephen Flurry and Jimmy Meredith are heir apparent’s and intensely disliked by most.  Pack’s cult is ready implode.  LCG’s is almost guaranteed to rupture once Meredith dies.  Members refuse to follow Weston or Lil’Jimmy. 

How many more years will the Churches last as they lie their way to retirement?

Who needs those ethic committees anyway!





18 comments:

Minimalist said...


Hey UCG:
Why is your heretical 'Anglo-Israel' booklet hidden way down at #52 spot??
..looks like it it's about to fall out of view any moment now.

Anonymous said...

Armstrongism is a dying religion. The only way that the UCG has any chance to survive is by becoming a mainstream religion. The winds of change are about to blow over the UCG landscape and when the dust clears the UCG will be just another steeple on the mainstream religious landscape.

Anonymous said...

"Rumors have been swirling around for the last year and and a half that changes were coming to church doctrines in UCG. The UCG spin doctors immediately jumped into gear and said NOTHING was being changed."

Actually, they've been swirling since 2010, when the lord high mucky-mucks told Mario Seiglie's Chilean family members there was no problem operating their daycare center on Friday nights. Well, that was until the conservatives caught wind of it and a giant brouhaha ensued—more about that in a minute.

But that was when the UCG spin doctors, led by none other than Tkach & Son's Spin-Doctor-In-Chief Michael Snyder, first jumped into high gear—a gear that has been in frequent use since—to say that NOTHING is being changed. Council Members were even sent far and wide to various congregations to hold mealy-mouthed Q&A sessions. Funnily enough, Tkach & Son with the help of Mike Snyder did the same thing—funnily enough, over the same issue—for something like seven years, until Tkach Sr. came clean and admitted that, well, yes, what they were accused of was EXACTLY what they were doing after all.

"To show how unconcerned the UCG ministry is about members questioning them, the minister in Canada told the upset members to leave if they did not like the subtle changes. We would never have heard a comment like that out of the ministry from the past. You were either told to be quiet or disfellowshipped. Now they just don't care."

Actually, they do care, just not about members. What they care about is money.

In 2010 and 2011, Denny Luker, Vic Kubik, Scott Ashley, Mario Seiglie, and John Elliott, just to name a few, were telling not only the membership, but also their minister peers, that if they didn't like the decisions of those "god has placed over you" make, that they should leave. After disfellowshipping en masse nearly all members in South America (they were a financial drain to the tune of 400,000 per year in subsidies, if memory serves) they showed 160 paid ministers the door (another financial drain kissed goodbye). At that time, approximately 5,000 members also decided to jump ship. However, Vic Kubik had previously stated on social media that the UCG leadership was prepared to lose 50% of the members rather than back down. In the intervening years, UCG has gone to great lengths to try to replace those vacated seats in the congregations with a campaign of over 1,000 "KOG Seminars," all to prettymuch no avail. Although, their income, thanks to a push to recruit "co-workers"—along with rising inflation—have come together to bring UCG's income back to it's pre-split nominal levels.

All of this has been straight out of Tkach & Son's playbook. And behind all of it has been Mike Snyder, public relations guru. Moreover, Vic Kubik, UCG's president, who was Tkach's hatchet man at Church Administration following the departure of Larry Salyer in 1993, was weaned by the Tkach's in coercion, deception, and hatchetery.

What was old, is new again.

Connie Schmidt said...

The posting was very scant on details of the UCG issues. Any possibility for a more detailed granular story, names/specific doctrines etc?

Byker Bob said...

Well, the main issue would seem to be, are corrections of any size or sort permitted? Could anything HWA taught have been error? If so, do you correct it, or do you consider it to be sacrosanct because "HWA was God's apostle"? Should he be revered as if he had been Jesus Christ? Obviously, it is wrong to use lies in handling the fallout, but who is the onus on when it comes to the members who would fail to accept the corrections? Why does the name "Tkach" always need to be brought up when it comes to even minor changes or corrections? Must a church which people assume God is guiding cease to grow, and remain static, or should it be dynamic?

In so many ways, all of these churches have been painted into a corner by the attitudes which were instilled by HWA while he was alive. At some time in the present or future, people are going to need to come to grips with the fact that the man died, that many of the things he said do not square with reality, and that nobody has come along in the time since his death who was of any caliber to be able to unify, or take things to the next level. If members are sheep, there really has not been a shepherd. At best, anyone who has tried has been considered to be an interim substitute for HWA, and only partially respected. Basically, that is the only scenario possible following the death of the personality behind a personality cult. Perhaps what we are seeing unfold this summer is the inevitable lifting of a wall of denial.

BB

Anonymous said...

The ones sneaking around bringing in apostacy in ucg are complete and utter hypocrites. Hypocrites with no backbone. They are also cowardly bullies and despise converted brethren. Ucg is committing spiritual suicide in their changes whilst being madly deluded it's the work of Jesus Christ whilst anyone truly converted knows its not. Jesus Christ taught by their fruits you shall know them and their fruits are for all to see.

Hedgehog said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...

'Those God has placed over you,' thingy does not appear in the bible. In fact the exact opposites is true when Christ stated that they are not to be like the gentiles lording over them and exercising authority (federal, state and local government) over them. This is found in Matthew 20:25, Mark 10.42, and Luke 20.25. The only power they have is the 'power' inherent in serving, such as a music teacher or dance teacher has over the pupils. Or even the hairdresser over the client, such as 'move your head down.' Teachers do not steal your life by living your life for you. People do this are not teachers, but rather thieves and murderers.
The 'power' ministers claim is non biblical and only comes from threats of throwing people out of the church. That they can't even quote a bible verse to back up their 'authority' is telling in itself. If there were such verses, they would be yelling them from the rooftops.

Anonymous said...

8.50AM you're right, ministers persecute converted brethren. I know since I have seen it.

Anonymous said...


Anonymous on June 16, 2016 at 4:28 AM said...

“Actually, they do care, just not about members. What they care about is money.”

“However, Vic Kubik had previously stated on social media that the UCG leadership was prepared to lose 50% of the members rather than back down.”



The Tkaches were prepared to lose 50% of the WCG members to ram through their changes in the WCG. They lost more than that and more like 90% of their income. Joey, Jr. is still comfy though. Of course, the hirelings who ended up getting unhired whined a lot. They thought they should get paid no matter what they taught.

If the Tkach people like Vic Kubik are now prepared to lose 50% of the UCG members to try to ram through their changes in the UCG, they might lose more than that and more like 90% of their income. As long as Kubic is still comfy he won't care. Of course, the hirelings who end up getting unhired might whine a bit. But some of the godless bums who badgered the UCG into credentialing them as new “minsters” might be happy just to rule over other people and abuse them even without getting paid to do so.

Anonymous said...


Anonymous at 3:47 AM said...

“Armstrongism is a dying religion. The only way that the UCG has any chance to survive is by becoming a mainstream religion. The winds of change are about to blow over the UCG landscape and when the dust clears the UCG will be just another steeple on the mainstream religious landscape.”



It does NOT work that way with the COG. When the Tkaches tried to turn the WCG into a ham-eating, Sunday-keeping, mainstream church, they just shrunk the WCG dramatically. Large crowds left it. No large crowds joined it.

Tkach people, like Loser Kubik, who want the thrill of having the UCG grow large and profitable without the truth, will fail miserably.

The UCG is already full of many godless and wicked people running wild and out of control who like to hang out and play church while behaving very badly. The winds of great tribulation are about to blow over the UCG landscape and when the smoke clears the UCG will be just another example of people who went bad and had their own bad behavior catch up with them.

Steve D said...

The idea that becoming mainstream in their teachings will somehow save them, is, in my opinion doubtful. Mainstream churches themselves are losing members at an alarming rate. Going mainstream is not the solution for a Church of God organization.

Anonymous said...

Tkachs motive was destroying the church, of which he had good success. The splinters motives is one of watering down doctrine to create a paradise for criminals, without killing the goose that lays the golden eggs. So they are playing subtle game of not too much compromise, or not too much too soon, whilst eyeing the reaction of the tithe paying members.

Anonymous said...

The winds of great tribulation! You and itstimecog can have a nice bickering over whether its wind or earthquake.

Byker Bob said...

11:32, I know that it is the accepted form to impute bad motives to anyone who differs with the basic HWA package, but how do you know that some of the reformers aren't simply attempting to get rid of error, like the extrabiblical teachings and theories that made Armstrongism so toxic and cultic? And, what would be wrong with that, and how would it destroy the church?

British Israelism is not the only stupid theory. There is Simon Magus, Nimrod and Semiramis (who didn't even live in the same century), the totally fabricated "true" history of the "true" church, the 7,000 year plan, gap theory creationism, Petra as the place of safety, the transplantation of Israel's royal family to England (the British royal family is actually German!), and speaking of the Germans, German Assyrianism. Oh, and last but not least, that HWA was God's Apostle, an end time "Elijah" with divine insights who restored the truths of the early apostolic church. People could keep the sabbath and holy days, eat clean meats, and tithe or give free-will to others and to charity quite well without all of this extrabiblical baggage!

The problem is, if the reports are true, "reforming" Armstrongism only seems to make a church grow and thrive in one place on planet Earth: Jamaica.

BB

Anonymous said...

"Tkach people, like Loser Kubik, who want the thrill of having the UCG grow large and profitable without the truth, will fail miserably."

Anon at 10:53 AM, what is "the truth" you are speaking of. Some specificity will help those reading here.
Thank you.

Anonymous said...

Thats the thing, going "mainstream" definitely doesnt seem a fiscally profitable route for a COG. Leaving WCG/GCI out of the picture for a minute, when you go to a straight American-Protestant styling of a church, you automatically come out on the losing side because there are going to be many, many church organizations that simply do it better. And in GCI's case, other groups don't have the baggage of surly old legalist farts hanging around because they think loyalty to the group trumps all even if they agree with none of the teaching. Your only potential attribute that keeps agreeing members in the group is the sense of "lets learn all this together", which has a pretty limited lifespan and doesn't bring in new members.

Byker Bob said...

Exactly, 2:01! Dr. Stanley does it so much better. And there just is not all of that corrupt Armstrongian angry authoritarian baggage. There are other legitimate non-clowns around who can also be of spiritual assistance. Just need to vet them!

BB