Thursday, January 5, 2017

Dave Pack: Herbert Armstrong will be resurrected ahead of other people



Dave Pack's god is going to resurrect Herbert Armstrong before a lot of other people. HWA will be resurrected so can he arise along side Abraham and Moses.  This the same myth that the church has been preaching for decades.  When David, Daniel, Moses, Abraham and others come back Herb will be there waiting for them on the Pasadena campus.  Everyone knows the campus will be spared and used as the HQ for the invading armies. Oh such wonderful Church of God teachings!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
Now we have seen that God will resurrect vast billions at once; 144,000 at another point. Who knows how many were resurrected on the day Christ died, or individuals—the widow’s son, Tabitha, aa, Lazarus, and so forth. He is willing to do one at a time, or medium size numbers, or great numbers. God has a plan for resurrecting each and every person. I have wondered…This is speculation. I don’t know…I have wondered if…At the time we all are born into the Family of God and made of the Holy Spirit, which the later part of this chapter talks about, I wonder if certain ones like Abraham or Moses or others will go first…Noah, Daniel, Job…We are all there, and God will honor certain people and they will come up first. This is important, because I can prove to you, right here—Mr. Armstrong is going to come up ahead of other people.

18 comments:

Anonymous said...

There's no way Herbie could have qualified for eternal life. Just the fact that his sermons were so repetitive, with no new material, is proof that he never grew as a Christian. He defined normal in his church, so many don't realise how different things could have been had he been really converted.
To Herb worshippers, brace yourself cause your hero won't be in the kingdom.

Anonymous said...

Gary, do we really have to dignify all the inanities of Dave Pack? All of them? I don't say we must ignore all the madness in Armstrongism, and I am not just trying to cover my own shame as a minister in the movement ,but isn't it an insult to our intelligence to serve up for our discourse some of the absurdities of these crackpots?
There must be some things we don't even consider worthy of discussion. They should be off the table. I am sure there are other issues in Armstrongism which can be discussed. Could we we have a discussion, for example, of the possible future of Armstrongism in the contemporary religious marketplace in North America, Europe and the Third World? An analysis of its prospects-- or lack of them-- as Western societies become more information-rich and secularized? A look at Armstrongism's demographics? Bill Lussenheide used to give some poignant analyses of these issues. We could ask him to contribute.

Byker Bob is excellent at analyzing the movement, with some priceless, piquant gems along the way. Yeah, we might have to put up with his "prediction addiction" and his stress on the prophetic disconfirmation of 1975 etc etc, as well as and his incessant reference to BI, but I and others will endure that. That's his pet peeve. But he has the mind for deep analysis and he clearly has a depth of experience. I never miss a sentence from him. I am a Byker Bob fan, though as an Armstrongite , I radically disagree with him theologically and philosophically.
You too, Gary. can give us more editorial type material, offering your own analysis as James does on Painful Truth.
Anything is preferable to Dave Pack's latest insanity. You draw too much attention to him. Give him the attention he deserves--very, very little.(Whatever little he deserves, is just for genuine news value)
And what's happening in COGWA, UCG and Hulme's COGaic? These are badly under-reported, Mr. Editor. You are doing a great job, Gary, but Pack is getting far too much coverage. We are not hearing much of what his fellow resident in Wackoland , Gerald Flurry, is doing and Flurry runs a larger cult.
Incidentally, and importantly, my views on these blogs are purely mine and are IN NO WAY representative of the CGI. Officially, we do not make unfavourable references to other groups and their leaders. I am just an ordinary Gentile minister in a fomer colony of Israel(Ephraim) Ian Boyne

NO2HWA said...

Anytime someone wants to write here I will post their articles. As for Dave, he claims he is the best and most important COG leader out there with the specific purpose in mind to poach as many COG members from other splinter groups as he can. As long as he opens his crazy mouth and posts utter lies, I will post it. If any one sees something weird or worn in a COGWA, UCG, LCG, etc posting them send me a comment and I will look into it. BB and Lussenhiede are free to send me anything they want posted.

Connie Schmidt said...

INSIGHT OF THE WEEK! ...

Well, if the resurrection goes by alphabetical order, then perhaps ARMSTRONG , which starts with the letter "A" , may get in before others!

Is there a line or order for who goes into the "Lake of Fire" and who might be first there too?

Anonymous said...

Only the weird and worn in Armstrongism is worthy of mention , Gary? You crack me up. You remind me of my bursting out in uproarious laughter one night as I related to my wife that Byker Bob once dismissed Armstrongism by saying that just about the only teaching he has retained from Armstrong is that he should drink a lot of water! DWL Ian Boyne

R.L. said...

If God is "no respecter of persons" as the Bible says, why would HWA - or Moses, for that matter - have a head start in the first resurrection?

What advantage would there be to "meeting the Lord in the air" 15 seconds sooner than the ordinary lay member? Once the Kingdom is set up on the earth, would that really matter?

To borrow from a one-time U.S. Presidential candidate, the "pander-bear" is coming out there.

Byker Bob said...

I get bored easily, which leads me to pick things up for a while, max them out, put them down, and then get on to the next thing. This prompts my confession that I just don't have the passion required to do the type of deep reading or research necessary to produce long, analytical articles any more. The writing has already produced the catharsis which I needed, and has hopefully entertained or helped some others along the way. And, I just don't believe in "phoning it in." Stuff's got to be fresh and it needs to be real.

I'll probably continue to comment, however, as long as there are blogs. I admit that I do harp on B.I. and the date setting, because there are always new people from the ACOGs making their first visits to these sites, and my opinion is that if they consider these two topics deeply enough, these are generally the first and easiest dominos to fall. And that's especially possible if one also remembers that the meaning of prophecy is allegedly gifted exclusively to those who observe the correct package of doctrines. So prophecy and the doctrines stand or fall together, and I believe that everyone who was ever part of the movement realizes this on a deeply visceral level. This is why so many stalwarts insist that the Armstrongian interpretations of the prophecies have not failed, they have merely been "delayed". To survive, splinter leaders must preserve and keep their members engaged in the doctrines. No eclectic collection of doctines and no obligations to qualify for safety = no Armstrongism. Might as well go off and join the SDAs or a Messianic group.

The pendulum, however, does swing both ways, aided and abetted by the Zeitgeist. Something which has been in decline for decades, given a fresh slant, new blood, and a set of more contemporary or relevant ideas, can once again revive, become vital, and grow. In order for Armstrongism to do this, there would need to be a new hook, some fundamental changes, and hopefully a more highly developed sense of ethics. And, the new product may not necessarily be recognizable as Armstrongism in its freshly attractive state. A sabbath, set of holy days, dietary customs, and one tithe are not automatically oppressive and repressive. Perhaps not even a new set of conspiracy theories would be inimical to the members. Much would depend on the presentation, the application, and the leadership. And it would be a fresh egg. Not Herby Dumpty.

BB

Black Ops Mikey said...

Herbert Armstrong will be resurrected ahead of other people.

Just in time for The Lake of Fire?

Anonymous said...


G.L.,

Do not allow any suckers of Teddy the Dink to discourage you away from your Great Calling, and distract you into endless boring and useless discussions of “possible future” babble and more faulty “analysis” of worthless bunk. Stay focused on what really matters and never stop doing your public and private DUTY to expose the false prophets on the COG scene so people can be clearly warned rather than having to learn everything on their own the long, hard, expensive way. If you do not do this Great Work, then who will?

The false prophets and other nuts have deceived, robbed, perverted, and harmed literally thousands of former WCG people. Even as I write this, demon-inspired false prophets are currently raging away on the COG scene as if they are angry because they only have a short time left, and yet some babblers want to hush up what is happening, pretend that it is impolite to say anything about it, choke off almost all discussion of it, and suggest that we should waste our precious time in idle chit chat about future things that we cannot possibly know and other worthless trivial pursuits that keep babblers from doing anything useful.

Simple, former WCG people do not need any more worthless morons pretending to be intellectuals by talking about boring things in a boring way and still getting all their “analysis” of “future prospects” all wrong. Former WCG people need useful, practical knowledge to help them survive on the competitive, dangerous, trap-filled COG obstacle course of today. They need to know what lies the false prophets are currently telling, what special and “common” theft techniques are currently being used by the false prophets, what dirty tricks these false prophets use to try to pervert people's thinking, how many sheep these wolves have rounded up, and how fast they are chewing through them. When the lives of the sheep are at stake, some hirelings just want to ignore the threat and talk about the weather, or about even less useful things, such as “possible future” babble and more faulty “analysis” of worthless bunk.

Continue to report the news as it happens. When a false prophet's brain spontaneously catches on fire and starts to melt down, that is the time to get some pictures and some quotes. Do not ignore a fascinating, true, COG, horror story just because someone with a warped sense of priorities says to. Remember that people are starting to come to this Blog to find out what is happening in the COGs. They do not go to those other boring babblers to learn what is happening. They could not learn from them even what has gone on in the past in their own group with their own "dinky" leader.

Chuckles said...

Anon. 9:02... Well said. I came here for the purpose of hearing what's what with the so called churches of God so that I might see them as they are and not be deceived into following them. There are many people trying to make up their mind as to whether or not they should join a certain cog, especially after leaving one and now wonder where they should go. I have learned a lot because of this blog as far as information about certain churches, one of which I was beginning to think was right on but thanks to this site I started to see why I should not follow them. Sometimes people forget the purpose of this site and go off onto something else that's not related to its original purpose, but Gary allows even those comments which is okay because sometimes it does stir some good conversation, unlike sites like Malm who only allows comments that agree with him o makes him look good, he just can't handle anyone disagreeing with him or being wrong about anything. Many people are fooled by certain churches or church leaders, but thanks to sites like this for exposing them as they are and showing where they are wrong, thus helping many who otherwise might be fooled into following them

Anonymous said...

I will withhold my tithes to Davey so I can buy a big baseball bat and play, "Whac-A-Mole" on nutcases like herbie etc if they try to pop out of the ground.

Anonymous said...

2.25 AM
I do not believe that exposing theological lies that can harm people, is going off into something that is unrelated to this site. Warning people away from moral traps can save members from much suffering. One example is the lie of 'administering Gods government' which is code for despotism, condemned many times in the bible.

This site is private property, so ultimately the owner can set whatever terms he wishes. But if it's purpose is to help people, I do not believe its focus should be too narrow.

Anonymous said...

To notice (and even put a magnifying glass to) the inanities of the Armstrongist splinters and their leaders, is a very different thing than dignifying them.

From what I've noticed, the strongest objections to the mentioning of bad Armstrongist things come from people who have a psychological need to protect it.
Protecting their own worldview is paramount, and a logical reaction are things like demonizing motives and information from those who see differently.

(Just as Scientologists' and other whacked-out religions' adherents have the psychological need to blame the victims; and claiming that their detractors are ignorant and/or bitter.)
Religious types who have simplistic worldviews usually embrace simplistic criticisms of ideas and people who threaten those views.

Anonymous said...

Some posters here who have pet religious ideas, try to discredit opposing beliefs by labelling them Armstrongite. This is the viper thingy, argument from intimidation.

Anonymous said...

"Protecting their own worldview is paramount, and a logical reaction are things like demonizing motives and information from those who see differently. Religious types who have simplistic worldviews usually embrace simplistic criticisms of ideas and people who threaten those views."

Like a drug, "confirmation bias" is the whine-of-choice that they get most drunk on, while serving and worshiping in the rented Echo Chambers. Punch-drunk rightousness.

DBP

Anonymous said...

Comment was made by the Pack man: "...God has a plan for resurrecting each and every person. I have wondered…This is speculation. I don’t know…I have wondered if…At the time we all are born into the Family of God and made of the Holy Spirit, which the later part of this chapter talks about, I wonder if certain ones like Abraham or Moses or others will go first…Noah, Daniel, Job…We are all there, and God will honor certain people and they will come up first. This is important, because I can prove to you, right here—Mr. Armstrong is going to come up ahead of other people..."

Why spout such things as: "...I have wondered…This is speculation. I don’t know…I have wondered if…I wonder if..."?

And then conclude with saying: "...This is important, because I can prove to you, right here—Mr. Armstrong is going to come up ahead of other people..."

It is all so stupid, except where the Pack man said: "God has a plan for resurrecting each and every person." Dave Pack should have shut his mouth right after that statement, but then there is a lot to question with all he said before he got to that one sentence.

There will be no 3rd resurrection. There are only 2 resurrections to eternal life. So, Dave, strive to figure out who is first? Who is on top? Who is the greatest? The thinking of the unconverted disciples initially thought a lot like that: who is the greatest?

Now, to strive to be succinct with them 2 resurrections to eternal life:

Revelation 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

That's it!

Who is blessed and holy? Jesus Christ, the first of the Firstfruits to be sealed (John 6:27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.)! He was the first one to be resurrected in that first resurrection, which is not completed. That resurrection will be completed by the rest of the 144,000 sealed Firstfruits (Rev 14:4)...and they all will be blessed and holy. God works it out!

Dave Pack, why do you bring up Abraham and Moses and join them with HWA somehow? Where do you get that? Why not Isaiah?

Well, the second resurrection is for "the rest" of humanity from Adam and Eve onwards, who lived and died...and it includes Abraham, Moses and Isaiah. Let Isaiah tell us:

"Thy DEAD men SHALL LIFE, together WITH MY DEAD body shall they ARISE. AWAKE and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead." Isaiah 26:19

So, yes, God has a plan for resurrecting each and every person, but virtually the rest of your speculations, your wonderings aren't worth a thing.

And time will tell...

John

Anonymous said...

4.14 AM
Abraham, Moses, Isaiah, David and others did have the holy spirit, so they will be in the first resurrection. HWA in his Holy Days booklet states that people during the millennium will be resurrected into the kingdom on their deaths, yet no scriptural support is given. In fact Rev 20.6 points away from that.

Anonymous said...

Anon 2:46PM,

You are correct in saying HWA provided no scriptural support for people being resurrected into the kingdom on their deaths, because there isn't any.

But, in a similar vein, where is your scriptural support for saying that "Abraham, Moses, Isaiah, David and others did have the holy spirit, so they will be in the first resurrection?"

There isn't any.

King Saul also had God's Spirit; will he be in the first resurrection?

Samson had God's Spirit; will he be in the first resurrection?

How about Eldad and Medad that God's Spirit rested upon? Will they be in the first resurrection too?

Numbers 11:26 "But there remained two of the men in the camp, the name of the one was Eldad, and the name of the other Medad: and the spirit rested upon them; and they were of them that were written, but went not out unto the tabernacle: and they prophesied in the camp."

None of these individuals were begotten by God's Spirit, because God's Spirit did not remain on them. God's Spirit came and went with all of them.

Christ is the first begotten of all of the Firstfruits. He, on the Great Last Day, aka the Eighth Day, told us about God's Spirit.

John 7:37 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.
38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

That Spirit had not been given to Abraham, Isaiah, David, Saul, Samson, Eldad, Medad, etc. to beget them as sealed Firstfruits.

And David, King David, the "man after God's own heart?" Well, David wasn't always that; was he? How about them times when Israel was numbered, and when David committed adultery, and when David via premeditated murder had Uriah put to death?

So, Christ has the preeminence. He had to be the first of the Firstfruits to be begotten by God's Spirit.

The Spirit came and went with Christ also, until the day He was baptized:

John 1:32 And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him.
33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and REMAINING ON him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.

Jesus Christ was also sealed by God the Father:

John 6:27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father SEALED."

We could cite scripture showing this sealing by God's Spirit: 2 Corinthians 1:22; Ephesians 1:13, and there are others. You can look them up.

Abraham, Moses, Isaiah, David never received the promise cited in Hebrews 11:39.

If you can't believe Isaiah 26:19, which proves that Isaiah will be resurrected with a bunch of others, but it will not be the 1st resurrection and there is no need for a 3rd resurrection, then you may continue to believe whatever theory you like, but...

Time will tell...

John