Dennis On: Dave Pack...Fo-Nay Home!

The Greek word for “voice” is phone (fo-NAY’)

DP...Fo-Nay Home!

"I'm invited?  Great!  See ya soon!"

Dear Mr. Pack, (maybe I will get through if I am respectful)

I have read your entire incredible and best ever letter written to all of COGdom.  You have a very loud voice (Fo-Nay) in print and in your Sabbath Service I am sure.  Unlike the Apostle Paul who felt he was troubled by a weak bodily presence as well, I'm sure that's never been a problem for you either. 

That being said, I'm feeling rather anxious over my eternal future since your "fo-nay"  letter spoke so plainly about my absolute need to return to the true Church begun by Mr. Armstrong and now continued by none other than yourself. 

You said:

"The most important and conclusive letter I have written to the Worldwide Church of God splinters has been posted! I promise this will be the single most crucial one you will ever read. If you do not read it all, it will be the worst decision you have made since God called you. Believe this!"

That was said with a loud fo-nay for sure and you got my attention.  Since me making the worst decision I could make is not reading it and I can think of some really bad decisions I made along the way since being called already, I feel compelled  to get the answers I need to make it through.

Your loud fo-nay went on to threaten my lack of understanding of your way of seeing all things GOD with not only committing sin which can never be forgiven, no, not in this world or in the next, but also a free eternal vacation of permanent non-existence, compliments of the Lake of Fire.  That's a lot of fo-nay to handle all in one sitting. Especially since I bet both your an my enthusiasm back in the day over what we were learning from the WCG as teens probably matched pretty closely.  My kids grew up where you were born and your kids were babysat by my parents as they grew up, so we have ties.

Mr. Pack...never in my life did I ever wish to speak with a phoney fo-nay.  I always , like you, just wanted to know the truth of the Bible.  Now we both know you and I are very good Bible readers.  We were so very well trained at reading the Bible.  On top of that, we got really good at reading the Bible in all sorts of orders and in all sorts of combinations to get out of it what we needed to get out of it.  We "hear a littled and there a littled" ourselves right into any truth that needed to be proved.  We were trained "Cobblemeisters" if ever there were any.  Line up line, precept upon precept, we cobbled our way through everything from "ye are gods..."  to "will a man rob God," and beyond.  We were the "Cut n Paste Church of God," and while many churches are also that, if not all, we were pretty good at it.  Well, you still are. 

Well, throw me in the lake of fire, I know, but I went on  to other perspectives too numerous to mention, but all very Biblical in nature and I really would love to share them with you.  After all, so much is at stake and being wrong seems to have such severe consequences.  The one scary thing about Christianity is that one must be the very correct form of it or else.  No pressure there!

We could talk about Adam and Eve and really get lost in just the first 11 chapters of Genesis wondering if they are literally true or a bit less than that.  We can really have a great time with women's issues, the fall, Original Sin, Noah and his Aardvarks and just were did all our human languages come from? I'd like to discuss evolution of all life and what in the Bible might just be mythically so but not so literally so.

 I'd just love to talk over those Two Trees in the Garden Mr. Armstrong spoke so often about and what they really meant .  Would it not be amazing to finally get the uni-plural rascal called Elohim straight once and for all?  Who are the "let us" and "we" El was speaking to and just what are Elohim in the first place?  Boy, we all about passed out when Mr. Armstrong said, "There were two trees in the Garden of Eden..."  ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ.  I always felt bad but we both had what was to follow memorized but good.  Finally, we can get it right!  Would that not be awesome?

I really have questions I'd like you to answer for me about the Gospels including the contradictions I think I see, Jesus birth stories and just what did happen when he died?  Rod Meredith won't talk to me about such things and he was the one who taught it all to us.  Harmony of the Gospels he called it.  Whoa..no offense, but I have found there is much less harmony than we had both been taught.   Alas...I appreciated his efforts, but he too was and is a mere Bible reader and he never once allowed me to ask any questions he might no know the answer to.  I know you would not do that to me. Our fo-nays must be clear on these matters if one is to feel the need to tell others how they should and must be in this life.  If we don't speak with a clear fo-nay, we might be perceived as fo-nee.  Get my drift???

Would love to discuss the Apostle Paul and his relationship to the Apostles with you too.  You and Paul both have much in common.  No one knows how the Apostle Paul got to be an Apostle and no one can figure out just who laid hands on him to do so, but with Bob Thiel being a Prophet without hands , we may be able to get to the bottom of this too.  You are an Apostle and I have the same question about that as I have about the Apostle Paul but we can cover that when you invite me to debate and discuss these things before the masses.  I think it is humorous that of the 24 times in the NT Paul is called an Apostle it is Paul who calls himself one 22 times.  Isn't that interesting?  Luke, his side kick called him one twice.  Other than that, I can't find where the original Apostles themselves said he was one.  I think the original rules for being an Apostle were that you had "seen" the resurrected Jesus , but those rules are confusing.  Mary should have been one to then I suppose.  Paul never met Jesus so his "have I not seen the Lord," was in his head as we know.  I think that was fudging the credentials of an Apostle.  I saw Santa once come down the stairs at my house, when I was little. I saw him so I guess I am a Santanist?  No wait...not that!!!  Never mind!

At any rate, one last time.  Since my former association as both member and minister qualifies me as one of those who will all return IF I get your story right , we gotta talk about your story.  I have some questions.  I believe I will know the answers you will give before you actually give them, but I'm not so sure you will know mine.  I don't wish to be in the Lake of Fire.  I don't want to commit any unforgivable sins (Christ must have not qualified enough to forgive that puppy!) and I don't particularly like being threatened with such things without a chance to question you and explain myself... Good questions well put can't be all that frightening can they?

So how about it?  Debate me. Sit with me before your own audience of believers and followers in the comfort of your surroundings.  I will be the one to step into your world.  To be fair, I will bring one person of with me to record accurately what is said so it can be accurately passed on to others like me who are in this danger of unforgiven sin and eternal death.  (I know how you used to redraw church boundaries when the next door minister wasn't looking so there would be more in your Church area, so I gotta keep an eye on ya a bit. ) Unforgivable sins and lakes of fire are not small things for us to ignore for sure, and I'm trying not to  but you gotta work with me on this one. 

Give me two hours during Unleavened Bread to sit with you during services and chat about these things before your church.  I won't bring or eat unleavened bread , pork or Jello the whole time .  To the Jew I will be a Jew and to a Gentile I can be a Gentile.  Now I never understood how one could trust an Apostle and what he really believed who thought that way, but it sounds good.  If you need til next FOT to prepare, we can do that too.

Debate me Mr. Pack.  Invite me to discuss all things Bible together before your own friendly folk who also claim to just want to know the truth of the Bible and if what you tell them about it all is accurate and inerrant in all things.    

And if you won't, or can't or shouldn't...don't you ever again imply that I or any of us who have puked our way through the drama and trauma of the World Wide Church of God are in mortal and spiritual danger, staring both sins that can never be forgiven and eternal damnation in a Lake of Fire, in the face,  for not joining your vision and version of the "Good News." 

If nothing else...think of the good press you will get and potential newbies you may reap if you can crush me in public with your real truth and awesome knowledge of who and what God and Je, Christ are doing on earth today. .

DP..fo-nay home.  We have much to speak freely about, in public and wherever you are comfortable. 

And no, I am not kidding

Dennis

denniscdiehl@AOL.com 

Van Robison: "Religious Control Freaks"

 

Naked Pastor

Change "seminary" above to "Ambassador" and you have a typical Church of God

Religious Control Freaks

Are you captive to a religious control freak who stands in a pulpit, pretending that God functions and operates through his or her ministry?  If so, you have a great deal of company, because the world is an ocean of religious control freaks.  Such control freaks always proclaim "authority."  Fear is their arrow and they drive fear into the hearts and minds of anyone willing to submit to their false authority.  Another pretense is that they "need" your financial support (as in false tithes and the sowing of false "seed" money to reap a harvest), in order to preach the Gospel to the world.  Does it seem strange that $money is ALWAYS a key factor in the world of churches? And yet Jesus Christ costs no money, salvation cannot be bought with $money, eternal life does not depend upon a spiritual credit card, and the building of church buildings and church colleges were NEVER spoken of in the teachings of Jesus Christ

What is it that so mesmerizes non-thinkers to submit their lives to such people?  Does the salvation or eternal life of even one single human being really hinge upon "going to church", keeping the Saturday Sabbath, observing "Holy" days, Bible study or bowing to preachers?  If so, then those who think and believe such things have never read the teachings of Jesus Christ.  Where in the four Gospels did Jesus ever say that salvation depended upon going to church, submission to "elders" or "pastors", or becoming prisoners to pied pipers in the pulpits, or even endless "Bible" study?  What percentage of church going is really based upon false assumptions?

During the age of Herbert W. Armstrong there was a teaching that if anyone was previously married and their ex-spouse was still living, then the second or third marriage to another was "adultery" and salvation was at stake.  For those in such circumstance, they were "required" to separate, which of course destroyed their families and the lives of their children, even if happily married in a second or third marriage.  This is the type of religious fanaticism that destroys lives.  When did Jesus Christ ever appear to anyone today and make such a proclamation?  It may never have been the will of God that marriages end in divorce, but in the Old Testament even God DIVORCED ancient Israel.  Was there a valid reason?  Yes of course and there are valid reasons for divorce.  What woman would not divorce a man who sexually abuses their children?    Sure you can read that women are to "submit" to their husbands, but that verse is woefully misconstrued and many have been abused because of it.  Some men are brutes and jerks.  Some women are also spouse abusers and controlling.

Using the Bible as an excuse to abuse anyone is nothing short of religious control, based upon private interpretation of INK on PAPER.  Pied pipers in the pulpits are professional, spiritual abusers and they think nothing of demanding compliance, because their pocketbooks depend upon FEAR of non-compliance to their fake authority.  As long as NON-THINKING church goers, live in FEAR of pied pipers in the pulpits, they will forever be controlled, and those who stand in pulpits will gloat over their bank accounts and their prestige and their fake authority.  Only when common people STOP being FEARFUL of people who are public speakers, will they ever be free to live life from fear.

Van Robison

Non-Ordained Prophet Thiel Mumbles, Bumbles, And Is Disturbed By "Wretching Demons" On His Video Set

The non-ordained self-appointed prophet has a new video up concerning the upcoming persecution of his personality cult by the Catholic church and Ecumenical Christians.

If you thought that his previous videos were bad, this one is beyond pale!  He mumbles and bumbles around as he tries to find scripture, pronounce names and deal with unclean spirits who continually make noises in his den studio set.

In the first 15 minutes you will hear all kinds of weird sounds. 

Either the non-ordained self appointed prophet needs to perform an exorcism or stop allowing people to sit in on his video recordings.  It will not take long till the prophet issues an edict that children will not be allowed in his presence when he speaks.

It's really, really bad Bob!  Really!  You have made a fool of yourself again.  Sorry, I guess that was persecution.

Non Ordained Prophet Claims His Personalty Cult Will Be Persecuted For Not Wearing Crosses

It has long been known that the non-ordained self-appointed prophet Bob Thiel has an intense hatred of the cross.  No one can forget the absurd comments he made after the Milwaukee LCG killings  when local citizens erected crosses in honor of the murdered LCG members.  The non-ordained prophet went ballistic damning the concerned citizens of blasphemy and insensitivity towards the LCG.  LCG backpedaled and apologized for Thiel's disgusting commetns and attitude.

The non-ordained self-appointed prophet is back claiming his cult members will be persecuted because they will not wear crosses when the Catholic Church issues its decree that all citizens of the world must wear crosses.

Jesus foretold persecution. Many are aware of some of the early persecutions, but few understand what teachings true Christians were persecuted for in the fourth century and beyond–some may seem shocking. At least two major persecutions are prophesied to come. Which doctrines are expected to be causes for the coming persecutions? Are the Greco-Roman churches planning on persecuting Sabbath-keepers, those who do not accept a non-biblical Mary, and those who do not wear crosses?

While many seem to not wish to pay attention to this subject, the reality is that persecution has existed throughout history against those with Church of God doctrines.  Jesus predicted that as well as more persecution to come.  Some may be shocked by certain doctrines that Christians have been persecuted for (and often by those who profess to be Christian).

Those in the true Church of God have always been the side being persecuted and has never been on the side of the persecutors.  And this will be true again in the future.

The only persecution the Church of God has experienced in the last 70 some years has been it's own hated of non-COG members.  It has publicly lied about,. mocked and ridiculed Christians, Buddhists, Muslims, and Jews for decades.  Any other persecution has come from fellow COG members and leaders who now are split into hundreds and hundreds of personality cults.  Each one claims it is the best and has the only truth as it ridicules other COG's. 

Dave Pack: My Church Is So Amazing "It will take your breath and leave your ears ringing."

Can Dave Pack's arrogance and pomposity get any bigger?  Check out the arrogant self-serving post he has written about himself.  The article he refers to is so mind numbingly stupid that you will sit in amazement at his sheer arrogance.  Yet, this fool thinks his message is so vitally important  that he says your salvation will be at risk if you ignore it!

According to the self-appointed apostle/prophet:

 "it will be the worst decision you have made since God called you. Believe this!"   He also makes the claim that every single COG member still alive, in or out of the COG will soon be brought back into the fold with Uncle Dave. 

Announced earlier, the most important and conclusive article I have written to the Worldwide Church of God splinters has been posted! I promise this will be the single most crucial one you will ever read. If you do not read it all, it will be the worst decision you have made since God called you. Believe this!

If there were just one book or article I have written that you could be compelled to read, this would be it. Start it, and you will almost certainly go on to read (and study) it multiple times!

God wants His people together. A detailed and powerful prophecy reveals that He is planning to bring it about. This article introduces how and why God’s people—every last one—will SOON be back together!
David C. Pack

Here is the world's most important article ever written, by the world's most important COG minister reigning over the worlds largest and most powerful COG ever to exist.

He starts the article off by making a veiled threat.  This is his LAST extensive article directed to the COG members.  Soon the end will be here and Uncle Dave and crew will be gone, so listen up boys and girls!

This article, my last extensive one to the offshoots of the Worldwide Church of God (WCG), reveals the part you control. (It also begins to prepare God’s people for a coming special, powerful prophecy, now underway, that God is guiding.)

Uncle Dave has this warning to all in LCG, COGWA, UCG and other splinter groups.  Listen to Uncle Dave or you will be lost forever!

If you are in the United Church of God (UCG), Living Church of God (LCG), Philadelphia Church of God (PCG), Church of God, a Worldwide Association (COGwa), or any other splinter or sliver that came out of the WCG, this will be the single most important article you will ever read. If you do not read it all, it will be the worst decision you have made since God called you. BELIEVE THAT!

All of you heretics in these groups need to take heed.  Your leaders will try and stop Uncle Dave from getting his message across to you.  They will attack Uncle Dave in sermons, articles and member letters.  Be prepared!

Your leaders will attack this article. In fact, they will do everything in their power to defeat its understanding out of desperation to keep you from acting on it!

Uncle Dave wants you to know that Jesus Christ has not hidden the RCG from you and its magnificence.  The RCG is a shining light in the gloomy darkness of the COG.:

Jesus Christ loves His people above all else. He would never leave them unable to know where is His Church, Work, Truth and Government. If He did, the question would forever remain for those who still cared about these greatest of matters, “Where do we go?” One man’s opinion would be as good as another.

If you are one of these former COG members who now no longer attend church anywhere and are disillusioned you had better wake up!  Uncle Dave is here to rescue you and bring you home to the one and only TRUE Church of God.

This article transcends and encompasses everything about your calling. If you are not IN God’s Church—however this might have come to be—you are headed toward losing God’s Spirit and eternal death! All hope of salvation is lost to you if you do not break free from confusion and return to the only Church built by Jesus Christ—to become a branch reconnected to the Vine (John 15:1-2, 4-5, 7). I repeat, the article proves this—conclusively!

Beware of anyone who criticizes or debunks Armstrongism.

Now note Mr. Armstrong’s summary: “You are an enemy” and “serving the devil”—minister or lay member!—if you are in any way scattering against God’s Church. Come to grips with why you may believe Mr. Armstrong was wrong. With so much at stake—very salvation!—be brutally honest. The wrong answer means paying the ultimate price.

Uncle Dave lists three points by HWA on why people come to the true Church.  If you do not believe HWA or Uncle Dave, then this is your destiny:

The stage has been set. You either do or do not believe the above three foundational points of truth. If you do not, and have no intention of returning to what you once believed, stop reading now. Your thinking has been permanently overthrown and the article cannot help you. If you do believe them, then buckle down and focus because now it gets serious!

Uncle Dave's jesus christ has a phone!  Does yours?  If your COG has a Jesus christ with no phone then run out the door!

The Greek word for “voice” is phone (fo-NAY’). Telephone derives from it. Like most today, Christ has a phone, and like all people who have one, He uses it. But, just as some do not answer their phone or a knock at their door, some will not answer Christ when He calls them from danger. Think of suspense movies when someone is calling another person warning of kidnappers or intruders seeking to bring harm, and the phone ringing without being answered. Christ calls His sheep through His Spirit in them—leading them, using each person’s name.  

Uncle Dave just cannot understand why people continue to follow COG leaders in other groups:.  He has this to say to you:

Also ask: How could one continue to knowingly follow strangers—false ministers who teach wrong doctrines and oppose God’s Work—and keep the Spirit of Christ? Scripture makes plain that brethren who follow false ministers cannot retain God’s Spirit indefinitely. TIME IS RUNNING OUT. If you read this article and “put off” following Christ’s voice—decide that you can ignore it for a time—ask why Christ should extend you more mercy than the many years He has already allowed.

Apparently Jesus Christ is going to get really pissed off if you read Uncle Dave's letter and do nothing about it.  You have had since 1996 to get your act together. Jesus Christ is not going to wait any more for you!

 Also ask: How could one continue to knowingly follow strangers—false ministers who teach wrong doctrines and oppose God’s Work—and keep the Spirit of Christ? Scripture makes plain that brethren who follow false ministers cannot retain God’s Spirit indefinitely. TIME IS RUNNING OUT. If you read this article and “put off” following Christ’s voice—decide that you can ignore it for a time—ask why Christ should extend you more mercy than the many years He has already allowed.

The arrogant fool lays out these stipulations that HIS christ demands:

Not a respecter of persons, Christ gives every Christian the same choice. It’s follow or rebel. There are no other alternatives. Stay simple. Let’s use our imagination by picturing a “conversation” between Christ and any person with His Spirit who is outside His Church—meaning every person in every WCG splinter or sliver existing today. Some will follow. But others will not. We examine the latter:

First, Christ through His Spirit commands, “[Name], return to My one Church.” The person answers, “No. I’m going to continue following a stranger.”

Christ next commands, “Come back under My government.” The reply? “No. I refuse. I will never follow one leader again. I like my freedom.”

Christ then directs, “Start paying My tithes to the only place I am working. They belong to ME.” The answer? “No! I’m paying them to the organization I attend, even though they are led by those who are against you. It’s my choice.”

Christ reminds, and again commands, “I called you to do My Work. Start helping MY one organized effort to announce the true gospel and to warn the great nations of Israel.” The response? “No! I’ve decided you have various works going on. I picked my favorite.”

Christ goes further, “Leave your family and friends in the splinters, and follow Me.” The same response: “No! I’m comfortable with them. And they need me. I don’t want to hurt them or upset the family.”

Christ commands yet again, “Leave ALL the damnable heresies you are hearing and return to every one of My doctrinal truths.” The person answers, “No! I have changed my mind about some things Mr. Armstrong taught. Joe Tkach may have been a false apostle but he got some things right that Mr. Armstrong got wrong. I am sold on these other ideas. I’ve been told they are right and that I should believe them.”

Finally, Christ DEMANDS, “Come to where I lead and work—REATTACH TO ME—the VINE.” The person says, “NO! I will NOT reattach to you or fellowship where you lead and work! I am staying where I am! My minister may be a stranger, but I like him. I have decided that I am attached to you where I am.”

Would Jesus Christ accept these answers, simply replying, “Well, that’s okay, you are an exception. You can still have My Spirit. I won’t take it from you”? No! This would be rebellion in its worst form! If the new convert, the one given God’s Spirit outside His Church, must follow Christ or lose God’s Spirit, why would it be different for those who were once more mature Christians—for those who possibly have had God’s Spirit for decades and were for years in God’s Church? These would have greater responsibility to return to the Church—and fast! For these, even a little stubbornness would be dangerous. While we might conclude that the new convert would be given more time, the person away from Christ for 18-20 years—and who once KNEW BETTER—would seem to be a candidate for less patience, and maybe much less after Christ’s command to return.

If you resist Uncle Dave with his foolish rants and his amazing church then you will be committing the Unpardonable Sin!   

The Unpardonable Sin

We are still not done with Matthew 12, and the grave difference between gatherers with Christ and scatterers against Him. There is one final element to what Christ taught—and it is BIG! Those who knowingly work against the leading of God’s Spirit are in danger of the unpardonable sin!

We pick up in verse 31—immediately after Jesus explained gathering and scattering. His very next words were: “Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit shall not be forgiven unto men. And whosoever speaks a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaks against the Holy Spirit [meaning the Spirit of Christ at work leading His one Church], it shall NOT be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come. Either make the tree [each person] good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree [each person] corrupt, and his fruit corrupt” (vs. 31-33).

This is a plain warning not to resist or work against where God’s Spirit is working. Many are actively doing this today. To these Christ says, “You are against Me and that will not be forgiven.” Read Acts 5:39, and pause to let it sober you. It is possible to “fight God.” Take a moment to read Matthew 12:30 and 31 together. Do not break in context what Christ made inseparable.

What an arrogant little prick!

But never fear!  Gods most amazing super-duper Church of God is growing with  lightening speed and has more money than any other Church of God out there.

An unbelievably POWERFUL WORK is underway in The Restored Church of God. Our income is exploding, one of the reasons our media is doing the same. This is because we did not break the grand pattern set by Mr. Armstrong—any of it! It is because Jesus Christ actually does head this Church. In another year, probably maximum, the profile of God’s Church and true Work on Earth will be beyond imagination. It will take your breath and leave your ears ringing.

Uncle Dave closes with this arrogant comment. He emphatically knows that you WILL be coming back to him and HIS church.  The Restored Church of God is the only place to be.

You have been duly warned.

I state emphatically, on God’s authority, that every last person—member or minister—throughout the world who is determined not to lose God’s Spirit—certainly many thousands—is coming to The Restored Church of God. Other new converts—many more thousands because of the soon-to-be-immense size of God’s Work (Rev. 10:11)—will be called to work alongside them in the tiny handful of years remaining before those of Philadelphian mind and condition are separated and taken to be protected from the Great Tribulation and Day of the Lord.

Upon being led by Christ through His Spirit to see and understand that you are outside the Church He heads—every reader of this article—return to Christ’s Church with all due speed! This is Christ’s command. Otherwise you will SOON lose God’s Spirit. Do not ignore or put off this understanding. After years away from Christ, you are weaker and more spiritually fragile than you know. Do not procrastinate—do not permit human nature to convince you that you need not act NOW! Do your homework

Yes Dave, you certainly are an arrogant prick.