Tuesday, April 24, 2018

Dave Pack: I have not seduced my members to walk back into the world like UCG has done



So says Dave Pack:
If you are in the United Church of God (UCG), Living Church of God (LCG), Philadelphia Church of God (PCG), Church of God, a Worldwide Association (COGwa), or any other splinter or sliver that came out of the WCG, this will be among the most important reports you will ever read. But think as you read. So sadly, great numbers of brethren have become content to let their leaders do their thinking for them—and with ETERNAL LIFE at stake! This letter will not help such ill-informed, easily seduced, “obedient” people.
If there has ever been a group of Church of God that has let its leader do all of their thinking it is the members of the Restored Church of God.  Has there ever been a more subservient and obedient group of COG members?  No RCG member is capable of knowing what Dave does.  None of them have an inside line to God like Dave does.

Do you know what one of the identifying hallmarks of a backsliding church is?  Its dress standards!  Not the lying or abusive ministry, but the jeans or open collared shirts.
The United Church of God becomes a case in point. This organization has been marching directly back to the world for the almost 19 years of its existence. (I explain this in detail in many places. Dress standards alone in ALL of the groups are blinking neon lights to those with observant “eyes to see” that this march is happening everywhere—that many are even moving beyond Laodicea.) United’s journey is almost complete. Obviously, they deny this. But has anyone ever seen, or even heard of, a single church on Earth—EVEN ONE!—that admits it is of this world? Of course not. That United’s leaders are now working in a “cooperative” tandem with a large group that Mr. Armstrong’s son led away in rebellion over 35 years ago is merely the latest outrage they commit against God, Mr. Armstrong’s legacy and their docile membership who are so willing to let them get away with their deceit. This deception necessarily involves what they say about me and God’s true Church and Work! (That Mr. Armstrong’s long-time, professed-to-be-loyal assistant leads UCG’s charade and no one calls him on it is appalling. But none can confront when they are pushing from behind.)
Ouch!  Someone does not like Aaron Dean too well... but he does have a point.  He saw how all of the top men in LCG ran their congregations in Pasadena that were filled with spiritual and mental abuse, how they schemed and plotted behind the scenes to form United while on WCG payroll, and tin spite of all of that, he jumps ship to join up with those very same men HWA and Tkach were none too happy with.

Then Dave lobs another spot ball into UCG's backside:
So many remain seduced into believing God no longer has—or never had—just one church under one government and doing one Work, but rather is what Joe Tkach and evangelicals believe—that a divided Christ is working in many places under many leaders doing part of His Work here, there and the other place—who knows, maybe hundreds of places.
Dave also has a point above that nails UCG and every other splinter group.  There are well over 400 splinters and slivers that have broken off from the mother church, the Worldwide Church of God over the decades.  All of them claim to the one true church sticking to the faith once delivered.  Yet, NONE of them will ever call out some of the blatant lairs leading other COG splinters.  Inwardly they believe that they are all "brethren" on many different pathways to the same God, yet they will mock and condemn Christians of various denominations and/or religious traditions of believing the same thing.  The world is always wrong but COG leaders never are.



22 comments:

Gypsy Roze said...

My husband & I have been baptized members of RCG since 2000 and yet we also attend COGWA at least one Sabbath a month. When Mr. Pack says some of the things he says we sometimes let it go in one ear and out the other.

Anonymous said...

'One church under one government, doing one work' results in spiritual/mental slavery of its members. Which is why God allows the splintering of Christianity. Over 200 times in the old testament, God describes a Himself as the God who delivers people out of 'Egypt' - the house of bondage.

Byker Bob said...

Seduction is the active word, and that’s how Armstrongite leaders roll! Dave Pack has done his share, seducing people into Clarion Call, all the ACOGs suddenly and mindlessly making the trek into RCG following up on the ELUL prophecy, and then, Common!

There’d be a much better reward waiting for Dave if only he had stuck to herbal supplements and vitamins rather than Herbal and non-Herbal doctrines and prophecies.

BB

DennisCDiehl said...

Dave says "So sadly, great numbers of brethren have become content to let their leaders do their thinking for them—and with ETERNAL LIFE at stake! This letter will not help such ill-informed, easily seduced, “obedient” people."

Boy that's a boatload of projection on Dave's part.

Don't give Dave too much credit for "calling out" other Church leader types. It's rather like Hitler calling out Mussolini. Dave just gets the most flack because he makes the biggest boasts and most prophetic screw ups of them all.

EX-RCG said...

Dave Pack may not be leading his group back to the world, but they are so mixed up with all the confusing doctrine, it will take leaving him and studying their Bible to ever get straightened out. With God's help they can do it!

Anonymous said...

I stopped attending RCG to attend The Eternal Church Of God. I went from one sewer hole to another. Just goes to show how cruel The Lord can be.

Anonymous said...

Pack is a "Spiritual Seducer".

He is the one who seduces people to believe his very documented lies - attempting to make reality what is absolutely nonsense.

Pack said"

"So many remain seduced into believing God no longer has—or never had—just one church under one government and doing one Work, but rather is what Joe Tkach and evangelicals believe—that a divided Christ is working in many places under many leaders doing part of His Work here, there and the other place—who knows, maybe hundreds of places. "

Pack has it all wrong. Jesus does not work with a worldly business model. Jesus is not a corporate CEO, limited to working in different "places" under many "leaders". It's not about "places". It's about PEOPLE. Jesus is working in many people in many nations. Jesus is personally involved in the PEOPLE business, not the Real Estate business. He is in the relationship and character business. He knows who are his - and they are identified by their fruits. They are known for their love - that's how people know who Jesus' disciples are. Centralized, organized religion - such as Packs - cannot possibly know the heart of a person like Jesus can. Pack's theology is a dismal spiritual failure because he tries to do what Jesus does in someone's heart in the model of a corporate business, which will never, ever, ever work. All it does is bring false security, false promises, pain, poverty, and confusion.

When you understand that the Church of God is not found in stones, or in buildings, or in temples, but is in the hearts and minds of people, then you begin to understand why Pack, for all his smooth talking and convincing words, has only produced physical fruit - real estate and an exclusive club all things Pack - and the spiritual fruit is decaying, ugly, and wicked. Despite all his smooth, cunning, and deceptive words, which have been proven false over and over again (why else would the delete key be his best buddy?) the only thing he has managed to do is produce a small church in a small town of Ohio with a big, bad, prideful and boastful - and arrogant - mouth.

Indeed, Pack tries hard to be the great imitator of all things Armstrong. But it's more like a toddler playing Astronaut trying to imitate John Glenn. It's a sad, and pathetic thing to behold. He's a legend in his own mind - much like the one he tries so hard to emulate.

Pack is a spiritual seducer. I feel for those who fall under his lying tongue, which bears no good fruit - only a malignant cancer of shame and pain for those who fall under his spell.

Anonymous said...

I stopped attending RCG to attend The Eternal Church Of God. I went from one sewer hole to another. Just goes to show how cruel The Lord can be.

ALL of the COG's are sewer holes. ALL of the COG's are sewer holes because of the foundation they are built on. Some are less stinky then the other, but all of them are nauseating none the less. It's just a matter of how much you can handle - and how used to the stench you get due to prolonged exposure. There was a commercial called "Nose-Blind" some time ago, where people were immune from the smell of household odors, but their guests were not. Well, when you're in a pile of crap for years, you don't even know you're in crap any more. It's just "normal".

I am sad about the cruelty you attribute to the Lord in your statement. If this is the legacy that the Armstrong churches have created in your mind of who and what Jesus is - then God have mercy on the ones who have put that thought in your head with their actions and teachings. I know you are not, by far, the only one who feels this way - over the many decades I have heard this over and over again. Again - God have mercy on the ones who have made people think of Jesus as cruel.

If ANY Armstrong COG minister is reading this - RCG, COG The Eternal, and others, and you see that one of your sheep now thinks of the Lord as CRUEL because of your actions - know that the problem is not with the person. Scripture says you are the ones who have accountability over their souls. It is not my job to judge you or your actions. It is Christ's job. And if that doesn't make you want to fall to your KNEES in repentance and change for what your teachings have done to people - I fear nothing will. God have mercy.



Byker Bob said...

Hunting for the best ACOG splinter is like comparison-shopping for diarrhea.

BB

Anonymous said...


Anonymous on April 24, 2018 at 4:38 PM said...“I stopped attending RCG to attend The Eternal Church Of God. I went from one sewer hole to another. Just goes to show how cruel The Lord can be.”


People who tried to do what they thought was right might be quite upset about the things that God allowed to happen.

Satan's false prophets--especially Gerald Flurry and David Pack--do all their own evil in the name of God to try to make him look bad.

Glenn said...

One person writing several years ago called these and similar groups "pigpens of oppression."

Connie Schmidt said...

PACKMAN WRITES: "Dress standards alone in ALL of the groups are blinking neon lights to those with observant “eyes to see”"

COMMENT: Thats right, you need to wear a tailored suit , white shirt and tie, with wing tipped polished black shoes, just like Jesus did or else!

Anonymous said...

What's extremely tall, uses an old and archaic operating system, boasts gigantic need of power, used long and lengthy lists, was extremely expensive to use, took forever to run a program, overheated easy, was obnoxiously loud and seemed to always cause problems over and over and over again?

Do you think I'm talking about an old 1970s style computer?

Or does something else come to mind?

One thing's for sure. I never could stand the constant screeching of those old-school dot matrix printers of the 1980s that came with IBM Personal Computers. For some reason, I seem to hear the same sounds come from Wadsworth.........




Anonymous said...

"I stopped attending RCG to attend The Eternal Church Of God. I went from one sewer hole to another. Just goes to show how cruel The Lord can be."


I'm curious, what is it about the ECG that leads you to consider it a "sewer hole"?

Anonymous said...

Kicking UCG when their down is a bit cruel of Pack. Can they do anything right anymore.
Zoning onto UCG is a bit ridiculous as many people criss cross over from group to group these days. The days when brethren pledged alligence to one Church of God group is over. Well and truly.

Anonymous said...

Yes because what you wear is a very good indication of your spiritual state.

I mean if you really want to show humility and submission why are we not wearing sackcloth?

I don't think suits, ties, white dress shirts and oxford shoes really shows God submission and humility and a state of penance and that you are spiritually 100%.

I mean even God Himself knows this much: Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Matt 7:15

To bash an entire group on appearance is so shallow and really a blow to those people who put on the best that they have and can afford. He just cannot see those who try their hardest to practice internalizing the fruits of the spirit in the midst of environmental pressures.

This is the message Pack should instead with love and without being domineering tell the people: Therefore do not be anxious, saying, ‘What shall we eat?’ or ‘What shall we drink?’ or ‘What shall we wear?’ For the Gentiles seek after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them all. But seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and all these things will be added to you. Matthew 6:31-33


Here is another scripture regarding what is more important to put on vs focusing on material looks: Put on then, as God's chosen ones, holy and beloved, compassionate hearts, kindness, humility, meekness, and patience, bearing with one another and, if one has a complaint against another, forgiving each other; as the Lord has forgiven you, so you also must forgive. Colossians 3:12-1

Cough, Cough, Uhhhhummmmm, come again? Do not let your adorning be external—the braiding of hair and the putting on of gold jewelry, or the clothing you wear— 1 Peter 3:3

Mr. Pack: And why are you anxious about clothing? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow: they neither toil nor spin, yet I tell you, even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these. But if God so clothes the grass of the field, which today is alive and tomorrow is thrown into the oven, will he not much more clothe you, O you of little faith? Matthew 6:28-30 Maybe someone needs to be clothed with some proper faith?

Now yes people should wear their best and not choose provocative clothing when coming together in service. But to assert that people must wear the clothing that with our economy costs upwards of a couple thousand to purchase and upkeep is taking away from the true experience we all seek and that is a healing of our inside state.

Anonymous said...

"Zoning onto UCG is a bit ridiculous as many people criss cross over from group to group these days. The days when brethren pledged alligence to one Church of God group is over. Well and truly. "

Exactly.

There is no longer any "Monopoly" on the COG's. There is now "Competition".

No matter how hard that the COG's try, growth is completely dead, because the product is literally obsolete. Trying to sell Armstrongism in 2018 is like trying to sell an 8-Track player in 2018. No one wants it, no one cares about it, except for those who are obsessed with 8-track players. Those who are obsessed with 8-track players cannot be swayed from their obsession - it's what they have chosen. But don't try to force 8-track players on a world used to streaming audio and MP4's.

The fact that the COG's now have hundreds of competitive groups of many sizes, flavors, and textures means that "disfellowshipment" from one group really means nothing. All one has to do is "hop" to a more welcoming COG. Which means that individual COG's have lost the greatest "power" they ever had.

Pack's method of operation has been a desperate attempt to cut the competition, because the competition is the biggest threat to his mini-me "Empire". His continued snarks on other COG's is nothing but an attempt to monopolize the COG playing field because they are the only source of growth. Everyone else can simply research the group and find out the deception and the lies. If Pack can monopolize it all, then he can regain the power lost. But he cannot. His failed prophecies and horrible reputation put the brakes on that. The only thing he can do- and anyone other COG can do - is their very best to appease and to hold on to the few they have, butter up the youth to try to keep it going a few more decades, and make sure that they (the pastors) can support themselves on the members' dime. This is why every COG out there - even the big boys - are running on fumes. I think in a matter of decades the big ones left will split down the middle and they too will become small fragmented pieces of themselves. And those campuses that remain will be sold and used for altogether different purposes - following in the footsteps of the old AC campuses.

There is absolutely no evidence that says there will be another outcome. The only thing that could change this, in my opinion, is a massive change in world events, a complete elimination of the internet, and a loss of recollection of history. Apart from that - forget it, Armstrongism, in just a few decades, will be just a fragment of what it is even now.

DennisCDiehl said...

Dave and RCG does not offer a trip back into the world. However, they do have a very nice Pack-age deal on being taken on trip over the cliff and into the sea. :)

DennisCDiehl said...

And too, if you can't afford that, there are always weekly trips up Shit Creek, but you'll have to share all things common including paddles or you might find yourself up there without one.

Anonymous said...

David Pack reminds me of a boss I had at a furniture factory, he made a lot of enemies and zero friends, someone he pissed off at work followed him out to the parking lot during lunch break and the said boss got his ass handed to him. Someday Dave Pack is going to pissed off the wrong person. Just sayin.

Anonymous said...

Pack's method of operation has been a desperate attempt to cut the competition, because the competition is the biggest threat to his mini-me "Empire".

Pack's method is a lot like what Meredith did in LCG. For the first year or so of GCG, Meredith preached that only rarely in church history was there a single unified group encompassing the whole spiritual organism. Then, as soon as UCG formed and most WCG exiters started going with UCG, Meredith changed his tune and said there was one and only one organized remnant of the Philadelphian Church and that if you weren't with that Church you would go into the Tribulation. From then on, he constantly drummed into LCG members the idea that they were the spiritual cream of the crud and that no other group was really carrying out Christ's commission as LCG was. He did an amazingly effective job of brainwashing most LCG members into being afraid of leaving for another group.

That is, until COGWA formed. In some ways COGWA is almost as screwed up as LCG, but the experience for members is usually reported to be much, much happier. When Rod McNair tried to convince the Scarboroughs' COGWA pastor to disfellowship them, and he then tried to play the old ministerial game of gossiping behind the Scarboroughs' back, he did real damage to LCG in the eyes of COGWA ministers and members, and he made COGWA look a lot more attractive by comparison to the increasingly cultish LCG.

LCG will continue to gain a few new adult members as some of the children are baptized and get involved in their parents' church. However, its days of significant growth from "new people" are past. It is significant that Gerald Weston took the reins of LCG after presiding over a funeral, the funeral of RCM. Weston is now presiding over the drawn-out slow funeral of LCG.

Anonymous said...

Talking of shit creek, isn't that scene in the Blue Brothers movie perceptive where the two brothers are with the nun ('the pengiun'). John Belushi uses the word shit creek, the nun hits him with a ruler, John stands up for his right to be a adult and authentic by repeating himself, and the nun responds by continually hitting both with her ruler. She then manipulatively takes on the role of victim (after legally assaulting both) by condemning their swearing ('after all I've done for you') and beats them down by radiating a aura of moral superiority.
This this so typical of those in authority.
That one scene is on YouTube.