Wednesday, April 25, 2018

Just What Kind of Man Would Minister for Dave Pack and His Restored Church of God?

While I can't name one man who is a minister in the Restored Church of God, I do wonder what kind of man they must be to have given in to Dave Pack's Boot Camp for In-Coming Pastors.  Sincere I suspect. Of sound judgement and common sense?  I doubt it.  Biblically literate and scientifically savy?  Not a chance.  

Willing to humiliate themselves for Dave and position in RCG?
Evidently

July 2013   Dave Pack hunts for a compliant Restored Church of God Ministry to serve him.

"Instead, while this announcement will correct you, it will also inspire and surprise you. It includes a series of questions to consider in advance of the Haggai prophecy fulfillment. The goal is to lift you with hope for the future. Another purpose of these announcements has been to awaken in ministers a remembrance of the government of God at work in His Church. If you are reading with an open mind you will understand that what is written is, in part, an appeal designed to get your attention and return you to your true role and calling. You once firmly believed that Jesus Christ had installed you into the office you held within His unified Body. (Yet hundreds of you went on to reduce your God-ordained office to mere “elder.”)   Hopefully many of you still believe as you once did."


"Tragically, some will make the wrong decision and lose eternal life. Consider carefully your actions. Your record is being written. Judgment is now on the house of God (I Pet. 4:17). You know human beings. You know they will broadcast what happened in your pastorate. (Future announcements will explain EXACTLY what God says will happen to everyone who does not come—one of three things, none good.)

1. Gyrated in your seat to death 
2. Made to listen to reruns of "Why Unification Now?"  (2013)
3. Work for Mr. Pack at HQ

(Just speculation on my part. One benefit of NOT coming would be in the saving of 10,20 and up to 30% and not having to share all things common, all good!)


Here's a few points from his litmus test for RCG ministry Zombies to be that are particularly offensive and telling

(3) Established Doctrine and Tradition
  • In what doctrines or traditions do you believe Mr. Armstrong “got it wrong”? (Include all areas—be specific    

(4) Did you actively resist false doctrine in your ministry?—or give safe sermons where you disagreed? (Be specific.)


6) Why should you still be considered for the ministry in God’s Church?


  • Why should God’s flock ever again be entrusted to your care?.
  • Are you prepared to re-win brethren’s trust, including brethren now here whom you will likely also pastor? What about re-winning the trust of Headquarters? 

(9) Do you now believe again that Christ works solely through one unified organization


Not really.  I don't even see that as being the case in the New Testament with all the fuss between Peter, James and John vs Paul and John vs Peter

(10) In light of government(s) you followed, how do you see God’s government today?


Demented?

(15) Are you willing to temporarily or permanently become an associate pastor?


Well, you weren't real good at this yourself Dave, back in the day in NYC.

(16) Are you willing to be excluded from the ministry until you requalify?


You weren't

(18) If your ordination(s) is(are) invalid, are you interested in being re-trained for Christ’s true ministry?


Do you have something in Paleontology, Cosmology or Geology?


(19) Do you believe ministers should be able to voice opinions to others about:


  • Where Headquarters is “wrong”?
  • What Mr. Armstrong taught/said/did “wrong”?
  • What Mr. Pack teaches/says/does “wrong”?
  • Where your boss is “wrong” or harsh, etc.?
  • Where you disagree doctrinally?
Of course, especially that "what Mr. Pack teaches/says/does "wrong" thing!

(20) Do you consider yourself as having been (rate yourself from 5 being best to 0 being worst):


  • Weak                  
  • Cowardly
  • Slothful
  • Covetous
  • Confused
  • Compromising
  • Foolish
  • Political (And did you ever “run for office” in a splinter?)
  • Heretical
  • Deceitful
  • Easily deceived
  • Betrayed your calling
Yes and No

(21) Why did you lose the ability to “discern good from evil” (Heb. 5:13-14)?—and for so long?


I didn't get to eat from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil so how could I know?

(22) What do you consider to be your ministerial rank?

Servant?

(23) Are you prepared to dedicate the rest of your life to serving God’s flock and fixing completely the horrific mess you helped cause in so many lives?

You're projecting....Are you Dave?

(24) In light of how you once saw Mr. Armstrong, do you still recognize the fruits of a true apostle when you see one?

Would you be mad if I never quite saw Mr. Armstrong as acting like whatever a true Apostle is?

(25) Describe your spiritual condition today. (Also, rate your temperature from 0-10, with 10 the highest.)

98.6

(26) What 5 biggest lessons did you learn from and since the apostasy? (In order of importance.)

(Clowns rise to the top X 5)

(29) Having now long abandoned many doctrines you said you would never leave, how would you convince Headquarters that this time you “mean it” if you intend to now “hold fast” (Rev. 3:11)?


Give you all my money and work for free?

(31) Are you prepared to spend a full year (or more) catching up with all you must unlearn, relearn, and learn new?

No. You?

(33) How would you prove that you are still Spirit-led?—or were ever Spirit-led?

Raise the dead?  Obey your every word and believe every tale you weave?

(35) What did you do after reading the article “God’s People Back Together—SOON!”?

Laughed and thought to myself where does he get this stuff?  What did you do Dave after writing it and God's people didn't show up?  




44 comments:

Anonymous said...

In what doctrines or traditions do you believe Mr. Armstrong “got it wrong”? (Include all areas—be specific

Life After Death, Soul-Sleep, Prophecy, Ministerial Power, Disfellowshipment, Church Building Policies, Ministers Believed Ahead of Members, The New Covenant Sign of the Christian, Binding and Loosing, Salvation, Shunning, "Marking", Waste of Money, Abuse of Power, Avoidance of Members during Passover, extravagant purchases, NOT REMOVING ABUSIVE MINISTERS FROM THEIR CIRCUIT, 3rd tithe policies, constant crisis-mode in co-worker letters, using guilt to get money, shaming, condemning everyone outside of the cult, everything he ever uttered that was proved false, cover ups, cow-towing to LA stars and bigwigs, hypocrisy, lies, makeup, the nature of God, Herbert's self-importance, Herbert's founding a whole religion on a six-month library study, Herbert's constant lies and conceit, Approving those Manpower Reports, 1975, Petra, The Place of Safety, Child-Rearing, Marriage and Divorce, Meeting in smoky Bingo Halls, Buying a Jet, Changing the words of Christian Hymns, Embarrassment of Jesus, Ministers-For-Life Policy, Yelling during sermons while demanding Children be present to hear, spanking, children forced to take notes, tithing, sneak-on-a-member ministerial visits, snooping during ministerial visits, wiretapping at AC, spying at AC, threats of the lake of fire for stupid and selfish reasons, ordaining David C. Pack, Bob League, Ronald Weinland, Frank R. McCrady, and all other harsh and demanding ministers, exhausting double services at Feasts.

I did like his NTBMO. Great food. Ate a lot during that. Yummy portions. Great lamb.

With that said, You think I still have a shot at this minister thing? ;) ;) :p :D

Nope. Wouldn't want to be anywhere near any COG minister, no way, no how.

Connie Schmidt said...

Pack likes to use the word "Headquarters" a lot! Funny thing is , that NOWHERE in the Bible is that specific word used to describe a centralized location for religious purposes!

Anonymous said...

For several years I watched the ministers at LCG HQ. I saw how many became obsequious in front of Rod Meredith, while badmouthing him privately among their closest circles of friends. I saw how they would promise him one thing, then do another. I saw how they would manipulate his vanity and his failing memory to lift themselves up and push others down.

Many have reported that this was also the atmosphere around Herbert Armstrong, when Rod Meredith was one of those trying to manipulate and take advantage of HWA.

Sure, Dave has changed more doctrines and made more extravagant personal claims than HWA or RCM. But it is merely a difference of degree, not of kind. Once you have convinced yourself that it is OK to lie to your Apostle or Evangelist, in order to secure your position far above that of your church's members, you have begun on a path of compromise and moral degeneration that will lead you in the same direction it has led all the others before you. And you certainly won't have any difficulty lying to mere members.

Many of those closest to Gerald Weston are ministers in their 60s and 70s who never paid into Social Security, and who know that if their leader banishes them they will become destitute very quickly. It is no surprise that because of fear they learn how to "play the game" and survive as a church leader even while convincing themselves that they aren't compromised because they privately recognize that their leader is wrong. Yes, you read that correctly. The very evidence of their corruption -- their hypocrisy -- is what some use to convince themselves that they are morally clean despite their double-dealing.

No doubt this explains much of what goes on in the Flurry and Pack camps, too.

Anonymous said...

All these 'why aren't you perfect as you should be' questions, is Dave beating down the sheep. It also has the effect of exalting Dave. Many have experienced this emotional abuse when 'counselled' for baptism.

When a Christian multiplied his/her talents to eg, ten talents, Christ said 'well done good and faithful servant.' Unlike Dave, He didn't beat that person down for not having fifty, one hundred or one thousand talents.

Byker Bob said...

Someone who has had a lobotomy? A
person who has always wanted to be a minister, but was ignored by those who were doing the ordaining? An infiltrator of some kind? Someone who has a secret crush on Dave? A masochistic sadist?

Certainly nobody with any value as a human being could contort himself in all the requisite ways!

BB

Anonymous said...

Most people cannot think for themselves. I'm not sure anyone really does all that much. People are just not able to break free from the group-think and false narratives going on all around them. Pack's followers are a lot like everyone else. Academics are locked into the same rigid mindsets ... whatever the prevailing paradigm happens to be.

Anonymous said...

The human race is a lost cause. Religious people are brainwashed. Most or all of the academic's and scientists I've known were liars, cowards, and go-with-the flow zombies. They were just unoriginal cowards who are scared to death of having an unpopular opinion of their own. You won't find the truth in either science or religion.

Anonymous said...

Someday, David Pack is going to piss the wrong person off and Dave Pack will have his ass handed to him.

Anonymous said...

Dave is clearly full of it. But Herbert's orphaned spiritual children have just got to believe God is doing a true work SOMEWHERE!

Allen Dexter said...

Oh, the memories! All the while I was in the WCG, I had this intense fear of not measuring up and ending up lost in the end. All religions rely on fear to keep people in line. Maybe I'm now in my 84th year because I got shut of that fear. I've had problems to deal with in the intervening almost four decades, but I haven't lived in constant fear.

Anonymous said...

It's 1:03 AM EDT.

And I see that "Wadsworth, Ohio" is lit up on the Tracking Globe.

Just thought I'd point that out. ;)




Anonymous said...

Wow, 7:38, what a horrible narcissist you are. Your contempt for everyone besides yourself will one day be your downfall. You wouldn’t by chance be Dave Pack posting anonymously?

Anonymous said...

From what I understand, the pastors aren't doing all that much pastoring anyway. Most of the sermons this group listens to is from Dave anyway on cds. He doesn't trust his own ministers to do anything outside of his control. The 2 that are in this area will keep to the party lines even when something is shown to them that is blatantly wrong. I don't believe they care if what they promote is right or wrong. If they did, then they wouldn't be keeping to the party lines. I spoke with one in this area a while back, I believed that my point was understood, the joke was on me. They will play anyone any which way they can to get what Dave wants, no matter the cost. These who work for Pack are not ministers but rather minions, they have no concern for the sheeple.

Anonymous said...


OUTRAGEOUSLY POIGNANT Anon 4:53:
_________________________________

"In what doctrines or traditions do you believe Mr. Armstrong “got it wrong”? (Include all areas—be specific) *(attach extra pages if necessary)*

Life After Death, Soul-Sleep, Prophecy, Ministerial Power, Disfellowshipment, Church Building Policies, Ministers Believed Ahead of Members, The New Covenant Sign of the Christian, Binding and Loosing, Salvation, Shunning, "Marking", Waste of Money, Abuse of Power, Avoidance of Members during Passover, extravagant purchases, NOT REMOVING ABUSIVE MINISTERS FROM THEIR CIRCUIT, 3rd tithe policies, constant crisis-mode in co-worker letters, using guilt to get money, shaming, condemning everyone outside of the cult, everything he ever uttered that was proved false, cover ups, cow-towing to LA stars and bigwigs, hypocrisy, lies, makeup, the nature of God, Herbert's self-importance, Herbert's founding a whole religion on a six-month library study, Herbert's constant lies and conceit, Approving those Manpower Reports, 1975, Petra, The Place of Safety, Child-Rearing, Marriage and Divorce, Meeting in smoky Bingo Halls, Buying a Jet, Changing the words of Christian Hymns, Embarrassment of Jesus, Ministers-For-Life Policy, Yelling during sermons while demanding Children be present to hear, spanking, children forced to take notes, tithing, sneak-on-a-member ministerial visits, snooping during ministerial visits, wiretapping at AC, spying at AC, threats of the lake of fire for stupid and selfish reasons, ordaining David C. Pack, Bob League, Ronald Weinland, Frank R. McCrady, and all other harsh and demanding ministers, exhausting double services at Feasts.

I did like his NTBMO. Great food. Ate a lot during that. Yummy portions. Great lamb.

With that said, You think I still have a shot at this minister thing? ;) ;) :p :D"

Sweetblood777 said...

Dave, if you are reading this, you need to give yourself a BIG E, that is, a BIG SHIT. If however, you no longer have a rectum, insert a hose in one of your BIG ears and blow it out.

Simple question: How does one recognize Dave Pack in a crowd? Simple, look for the person with the biggest head. If you find two that meets this description, select the one that waddles as they walk, as this confirms that they are tossed to and fore, much like their sermons. To confirm further, notice whether the person continually swings their arms in every which direction, indicating brain malfunction and misfiring.

Once found, please place this individual in a white straight jacket that has secure arm locks to prevent this person from harming themselves and others. Please note, that it may be advisable to tape their mouth shut in order to calm the many voices that explode from within him.

Finally place him in a green garbage bag and leave for pickup at the end of the driveway. Please remember to paste a sign to the bag indicating that only qualified personnel should attempt to throw him into the back of the garbage truck as the contents of the bag is hazardous material and has been known to violently salivate if they sense that money is in close proximity.

Dumbhead said...

Does anyone know the membership number of Dave's group? Does Bob Theil have more in his group than Dave Pack?

David Rickman said...

Allen Dexter said "all religions rely on fear to keep people in line." You are a f**king idiot if you believe that! You may not be in that Armstrong bs, but you still have a narrow-minded view because of your contact with WCG. Like you, most atheistards are close-minded intolerant bigots!

Dale Middleton said...

All I ever see on this website is the same old arguments. If you have left the Worldwide church and it's sister churches that is good. Now, get on with your life and let go of the pain so you can move on. If you people cannot do that, you will never be happy the rest of your days.

Anonymous said...

Last I heard, Pack had a slip of the tongue and admitted there were more than 2,500 members but it is definitely under 2,500. This was before he started preaching looney prophecy.

I would imagine he's lost about a few hundred.


The largest feast site has roughly 500 members and there are about 5 feast sites in US. Average site size is 300 people. International sites are very small with no more than 100 members.

The Administration building in Wadsworth is four floors, and currently, no more than 2 people occupy the 1st floor and no more than 8 people occupy the lower level. The second floor has about 12 people. The executive floor has about 18 or less.

The mail and distribution building has about 5 people. It is a beautiful two stories, the second floor is always shut off, can hold about 15 people up there.

The media building has only 3 people. Can hold up to 10.

Point is the campus is worth millions but severely lacking people to fill the space that was supposed to do a great work.

There is a strict guideline for being an employee at HQ they dictate your hairstyle, facial hairstyle, dress, etc. Every employee at HQ must attend Ambassador Center, they must also ready God's Government book and God's Work book.

Computers are locked down and only IT is allowed to install anything. Recorders are not allowed. Cameras are setup on every floor. everyone has a key code, the third floor of the admin building is secured even inside the elevator. Pack has the biggest office, with amazing views and very very expensive furniture. He spends the majority of his days in meetings, he is always kept up to date on member behavior especailly in HQ.

You must be aware that if you counsel with a minister at HQ they will tell other ministers.

Anonymous said...

"All I ever see on this website is the same old arguments. If you have left the Worldwide church and it's sister churches that is good. Now, get on with your life and let go of the pain so you can move on. If you people cannot do that, you will never be happy the rest of your days."

Yet, here, you are, commenting. Imagine that. So, move on! Live life! Be happy! Go get a beer and a hoagie or something! Watch a ball game. Go for a drive. Do a nice barbecue. What you do not understand is that letting go of pain is a process. The simple idea of "letting go" is the worst thing abused people can do. Because that does not work. If you can't be a positive part of the process of healing, then we aren't the ones that need to move on. I think you yourself are the one that needs to get on with your life and move on - your comments do nothing for the process of healing.


Anonymous said...

Sorry people, but we all like to think we know what's going on but we don't. Nobody does. There is just too much to know. I have recently realized that unless you read Nietzsche's works on morality and religion like "On The Genealogy of Morals" you are not really not informed, you just aren't. You can get the book or the Audio CDs on it. I don't think Herbert ever studied this in his six month's study. He was a salesman with a big ego and a very narrow, relatively conventional education. Herb and Pack look like bigger idiots than ever as you broaden your perspective.

David Pack Wants You To Lick His Boots said...

8:47 AM, Shut The Hell Up!

Anonymous said...

"Now, get on with your life and let go of the pain so you can move on."

We are getting on with our lives but we still like to vent, which is how we cope, so shove off and get off your high horse. You were probably one of those hypocritical jerks who didn't put much into it anyway.

Byker Bob said...

This is the way we have fun and add enjoyment to life. Doesn’t that just piss you off? I sure hope so,
because that would even add more joy!

BB

Dumbhead said...

Thanks 10:10 for the info

Anonymous said...

More sci-fi influence: ;)

I've always thought Dave Pack looked like one of those big tall grey alien almond eye beings kind of, masquerading as some weird cult leader. If you put a pic of one of those alien things and dave pack side by side they could be brothers ;)



Anonymous said...

Nietzsche's works are rooted in anti-semitism and other forms of racism.
Echoes of those proclivities are seen in some of HWA's talks and writings.

DennisCDiehl said...

Thank you for the update and insights 1010

Hoss said...

In contrast to the other superlative claims made, has Dave Pack, or any other COGleader for that matter, ever claimed he was the "most loving" minister?

After GTA's departure from WCG, HWA compared Ted to his brother Richard, stating Richard was the church's "most loved minister". The reason, HWA wrote, was because "Richard was full of love". Of course, expressions of love depend on a particular point of view.

I'm sure if how loving a minister is became an issue, DCP would churn out a sermon or six to present himself in that light...

Lake of Fire Church of God said...

Dale Middleton said, "If you have left the Worldwide church and it's sister churches that is good".

MY COMMENT - I don't know if this statement was intentional or not, but I am not aware of any significant "sister churches" to the Worldwide Church of God coming out of Church of God, Seventh Day. I am aware of the many daughter splinter Churches from Worldwide; and of course the Parent Sardis era Church of God, Seventh Day who don't look dead to me. Were you inferring the various cousin splinters from the Seventh Day Adventist Church or was this just a mis-statement? Your statement confused me Dale.

Richard

Anonymous said...

"and of course the Parent Sardis era Church of God, Seventh Day who don't look dead to me."

That whole "Sardis" thing, in fact, the whole "church eras" thing - never held water. If any church era could win the church era Lottery of course they would hit that Philadelphia Jackpot. You have to believe in a duality of prophecy that effected the actual 7 churches mentioned back in that generation, and then somehow think it effected a small church an ocean away thousands of years later. So convenient to call anyone who left the church "Laodicean", who went "lukewarm".

I'm not saying you were saying that Sardis thing as if you believed that - it just triggered a comment re memory about that whole church era thingy.




Dumbhead said...

Speaking of the Sardis era, don't the splinter groups as a whole seem to fit the Sardis era description?

Anonymous said...

Dale Middleton
The pain never goes away, which proves that you don't know what you're talking about, and you need to be legally licensed to play doctor Phil, which obviously you are not.

Lake of Fire Church of God said...

Anonymous 3:42 PM said, "I'm not saying you were saying that Sardis thing as if you believed that - it just triggered a comment re memory about that whole church era thingy".

MY COMMENT - I was being facetious ergo my comment that followed "the Parent Sardis era Church of God, Seventh Day WHO DON"T LOOK DEAD TO ME". Connie Schmidt has informed the Banned community that she attends COG7D and she doesn't look dead to me either.

Richard

Lake of Fire Church of God said...

Dumbhead said, "Speaking of the Sardis era, don't the splinter groups as a whole seem to fit the Sardis era description?"

MY COMMENT - To me, in a twist of irony and fate, The Worldwide Church of God now doing business as Grace Communion International fits the dead Church description. I am sure others would disagree with me and agree with you though. One thing for sure, none of them fit the Philadelphia description - with the exception of Almost Arrested Doubly Blessed Elijah Dr. Bitter Bob Thiel's divine open door of the use of animation to proclaim to the world the good news of proper dating - a door no man can shut and no one wants to watch!

Richard

Anonymous said...

Really bad Church Humor Joke coming:

What do COG people call a group of COG7 Members who like Dr.Who?

The SARDIS TARDIS!!!!

Dumbhead said...

Richard,

The problem is that ALL the splinters from the original doctrines of the Church probably feel they are Philadelphian! Who wants to admit that they are dead.

Gerald Flurry Is The Original Bad Penny said...

Anon 6:32 PM, Funny joke, but as I am a die-hard Doctor Who fan, you need to know that NO Doctor Who fan would NEVER spell it as "Dr. Who". Just thought I'd let you know!

Anonymous said...


Tragically, Dave Pack's parents taught him to argue and debate rather than to tell the truth and to respect other people and their property.

Anonymous said...

Anon 6:32 PM, Funny joke, but as I am a die-hard Doctor Who fan, you need to know that NO Doctor Who fan would NEVER spell it as "Dr. Who". Just thought I'd let you know!

My apologies. I am a die-hard Star Trek fan. I suppose it is the same thing as saying Captain Kirk was Captain of the Enterprise NCC-1701-D. Or even worse, that the Lieutenant Commander of the same was Luke Skywalker ;)

I will admit the only knowledge I have of DOCTOR Who, and the Tardis, is from a few TV Clips by various personalities, some big fans of the show. I've never taken the time to watch the show. BUT, I knew enough of the Tardis to make a joke about it ;)

Byker Bob said...

William Miller apparently believed in the church era heresy too, and he taught that the Laodicean era began in the 1840s around the time of the great disappointment. That was probably the best logic for one believing that he was living in and warning about the ultimate event horizon, the end time and return of Jesus Christ. But, then again, Miller was not your Madison Avenue type who would find and assign the best of all possible labels as inducement to anyone wishing to follow him. He “knew” from the theory that the end would come during the Laodicean “era”, so that was the era that he preached.

Of course, if you present 7 possible labels, and, based on the passage of history, most of the labels have been used up, who isn’t going to pick the best remaining one for themselves?

Basically, as with so much of Armstrongism, we now have a naive and perhaps bucolic guessing game going on about one man’s opinions regarding a theory that was dogmatically preached as gospel.

BB

Anonymous said...

7.58 AM
There is nothing wrong with debating. Christ enjoyed debating with the Pharisees.
'Don't argue or debate' is the line members often get from the ministers when they question their claims.

Anonymous said...

A small Addition to Sweetblood777 at 6:24am

When removing poisonous package, be prepared to have the HazMat' Team AND Dr's from the local Emergency Room tend to the badly wounded and wronged, like:
the Suicides in Pack's churches in New York
his hurt family that he stole business from(one of them told that story)

A lot of healing is needed

Anonymous said...


The MIND behind the cult:


RCG (Pack)

Leader: The insatiably greedy and covetous mind of a doctrinally unstable demoniac in complete meltdown. Specializes in “common” theft.

Members: The mind of the supposedly doctrinally precise type who will turn and change in an instant and go along with whatever it is told to believe next. The mind that mistakenly thinks it literally has nothing left to lose, and will now end up losing any sincerity and integrity too that it might have once had.

Ex-members: The mind that naively believed that Dave was going to restore what HWA had taught in 1986 but now has to deal with the fact that it has been utterly deceived, betrayed, robbed, and left destitute.