COGaWA (WCG2)Premiers It's Website

WCG2/Church of God a Worldwide Association has its new official web site up.  You can follow along as little Joel talks about his superfantastic trips around the world and Ralphie talks about single life.  Such fun!

 

Church of God a Worldwide Association 

An Angry Reader Responds

From: juanwhoknows@_____.com
To: DenniscDiehl@aol.com
Sent: 2/10/2011 12:02:12 P.M. Eastern Standard Time
Subj: your hwa banned blog

I've been reading your 'anti-armstrong/no-god' blog for some weeks, following the UCG-COGaWa debacle, and since you're into highly original comments, here's one I bet you haven't heard (1000 times yet):

Psalms 14:1  ... The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.

This pretty much sums up your blog....foolish, bitter, myopic, predictable, rambling, and often typographically-challenged (lots of misspellings)....

Even with all the mutual 'crap' you've compiled from myriad other myopic self-promoting vilifiers, your personal scope of the entire HWA-WCG experience can never be more than very minuscule, personal and hopelessly arbitrary.

Even if what little you say about HWA and the WCG and splinters is basically true, the remaining 99.999% of the unfathomable experience goes completely unconsidered....so much for minimal accuracy (less than 0.001%) and objectivity. You should reconsider such a colossal blunder of short-sightedness; its as if you are STILL operating like a WCG minister.

To live a life of no hope (atheism) is miserable compared to an active life of FAITH.  When a believer is in trouble he cries out "O 'God,' help me!"  And when he is eventually saved, he is thankful.  What do you cry out?  "Oh God" or "G. D. it," I'm sure....because you can't completely wipe out the pre-programmed knowledge of the Creator from your mental ROM, can you? Because HWA didn't put THAT there.

Since no one will know that there is "god," until he sees him in the flesh or dies (no I didn't just contradict myself), a wise man chooses to believe in the Creator rather than not.  He reasons that the positive benefits of a life of FAITH greatly outweigh the crushing loneliness, purposelessness and bitterness that always accompany ATHEISM.  And if there turns out to be no 'god' in the end, it was still a greatly improved life. If there is 'god,' then the 'unprofitable servant' goes into an unimaginable bonus round.

Yet, so what if there's no reward after this life? If you're doing it for the reward, is that agape love? or, like all the self-seeking folks you describe in your blog, just for personal gain?  FAITH in the Creator is a worthwhile mindset even without the resurrection, pal.

The bottom-line question for me: is the m.o.of your blog really any better than that of the people whose actions you consistently paint as diabolical, stupid, and clueless?  Are you not doing the same thing that you did when you were a WCG minister? Then what a waste of time if you believe what you blog....

Because, like Job (another guy who thought he had this 'god thing' figured out), you might actually be WRONG about all this 'religion is big business' and 'the opium of the people' stuff.

For me, if a life of great joy, accomplishment, and worthwhile experiences, plus agony, long sadness, hard times and tragedy (most of which was my own fault) has not dimmed my faith in the Creator, how could your little toxic blip of a blog possibly hope to make a dent in anyone else's? 

If there is "god," you're still serving his purpose in another way without knowing it. If there is no "god," then you're still blogging about NOTHING after all these years and that every single day.

Again, what a waste of life....why not tell us about your stamp collection or how you felt when you first became a father?  Contributing something positive to the aggregate....

"A-dios!" whoops, sorry, "A-nihilos, amigo!"

_________________________________________________________________________________
FYI Juan:


I don't expect you or anyone else to agree with what is posted on this blog. One of the main problems with Armstrongism is that people checked their brains when they were baptized or whenever they read the latest booklet put out by one of the various "One and ONLY True Ministers of God left on earth today." 


The Armstrongite thought process only involves the 'revealed word of HWA, Meredith, Flurry, or some other leader who has interpreted the Bible according to THEIR viewpoint.  The members of these churches are expected to follow THEIR rulings and doctrines.  Reading other literature, theology books or writings done by non-COG members is frowned upon and blatantly forbidden by some.  Questioning is NOT an option in Armstrongism.  It wasn't under HWA at any point in time.  It still is not under Meredith, Flurry, Hulme, Pack, Cox, etc.


Real spiritual seekers continually ask questions, and have no problem in wrestling with scripture and doctrine   If you truly believe the Bible stories you read you would quickly see that many of  those men and women wrestled with, argued with and bargained with their God. You would see that more than 5 different writers contributed to Genesis.  That there were several authors to Isaiah, that many of the days and traditions kept by the Israelites were patterned after neighboring 'pagan' peoples, that James and Paul argued over who knew Jesus the best and how to interpret his word.  You would know that much of the Bible is myth and allegory. And, if you knew the meaning of myth and not today's meaning you would find value in these stories even though they aren't literal.  You would also know that the Bible tells the story of messy people, living messy lives who never quit got it right. It is not a story about people living lives of perfection or constantly having to DO the right thing.


I spent over 45 years in Armstrongism.  I was two when my mother joined and we drove 150 each way to church.  Grew up in the church, came to its Pasadena campus, worked for the church and even work in HWA's home for close to 15 years.  I can tell you stories that make anything posted here look like nursery rhymes.


I am not angry with the church.  There were some good times to be had.  I would never have traveled around the world like I have if it wasn't for the church.  However, there is regret for the lost and wasted years, the lost opportunities and a screwed up faith that was damaged by the cultish irrelvent nonsense of Herbert Armstrong and his minions.  I learned a long time ago to laugh and and have fun with the crap we all put up with.  That is the only way you can retain your sanity. Those of us that have recovered  from the filth now don't want to see others hurt by it.  So we post the silly happenings, the arrogant words, and  the lies of the various splinter cults and their leaders so it is all in black and white for the world to see.


Yet through it all, I never lost that spark that keeps me coming back to God.  That's why I am a lay minister in a local church, serve in numerous ways in the church and in the community.  I would much rather surround myself with agnostics, atheists and those that question their beliefs than those who are so mind numbingly close minded they refuse to use their brains.


I may not agree with everything Dennis writes, but the majority I do.  Those things that I don't agree with I look at as a new way of looking at things I had never thought about before.  I may not agree, but I do allow it to cause me to think.


Dennis is more than welcome to post there.  When he can jar the minds of those entrenched in the ethically and morally bankrupt churches of Armstrongism then he is welcome to post any damn time he wants.


This includes the other people that send me information too!


Gary

UCG: Everything is all Daffodils and Cute Bunnies

Reading UCG Realtime you would think UCG has had only a minor little hiccup in their organizational structure and everything is phantasmagorically fabulous!  Pretty daffodils and bunnies playing in the fields of the Lord....

Here is their list of hiccups laid out:

For your information, in early 2010, there were 492 credentialed elders in the United Church of God, an International Association. Of that number, 323 (66%) are still with UCG. Of that total, we have retained 62 of 131 salaried field ministers (47%); 15 of 20 elders salaried by the home office (75%); 9 of 14 retired elders (64%); and 237 of 327 non-salaried elders (73%).
In the United States, we have retained 250 of 382 elders (65%). Of that total, we have retained 46 of 100 salaried field ministers and 180 of 248 non-salaried elders (73%).

Is It a Sin to Notice Prayer Doesn't Work as Advertised?

Is It a Sin to Notice Prayer Doesn't Work as Advertised?

This is a tough one.  The faithful will get defensive on the outside but know what I'm asking is true on the inside.  Apologetics will follow along "But God still knows what's best for us,"  "The wisdom of man is foolishness with God,"  "My ways are not your ways,"  "There is a way that SEEMS right unto a man, but...."  "The wisdom of man is foolishness with God," and so on.  God always wins.

But is so bad to simply ask based on experience and observation, what do these promises mean if there is a God behind them with the power to do as stated?

"Dear God,  I need rent money.... "

"No"

"Dear God, bless our Church and help the work to grow."

"No"

Dear God,  please heal my cancer, my condition, my life, my heart, my soul, my illness."

"No"

"Dear God, Please let my child live..."
"No"

 

I think we get the point.

 Matthew 7:7   "Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. 8 For everyone who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened.

 

 Matthew 17:20  He replied, “Because you have so little faith. Truly I tell you, if you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, ‘Move from here to there,’ and it will move. Nothing will be impossible for you.”

 

 Matthew 21:21  Jesus replied, “Truly I tell you, if you have faith and do not doubt, not only can you do what was done to the fig tree, but also you can say to this mountain, ‘Go, throw yourself into the sea,’ and it will be done.

 

 Mark 11:24  Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours.

 

 John 14:12-14  Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. ¹³ And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. ¹⁴ You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it.

 

, Matthew 18:19 Again, truly I tell you that if two of you on earth agree about anything they ask for, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven.  

 James 5:1-16  Is anyone among you sick? Let them call the elders of the church to pray over them and anoint them with oil in the name of the Lord. ¹⁵ And the prayer offered in faith will make the sick person well; the Lord will raise them up. If they have sinned, they will be forgiven. ¹⁶ Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person is powerful and effective. 

So here we go.  

"Dear Heavenly Father.  Thank you for my life and for calling me into the truth.  Please bless the work of God. Please watch over Mr. Armstrong and bless the college.  Thank you for your mercy and bringing me here to learn more about your word.  Help me to be a good student and to learn all that is taught to me of your truth. Please use me in you're work because that is why I have come these 3000 miles against my family's wishes for.  I promise to teach faithfully and with a humble spirit. . Thank you that you have allowed them not to question the wisdom of this choice.  Please use me someday in your work.  I came here to study your word and learn your ways. I do wish to help your people as a minister.

Please watch over all the children whose Angels do watch over them.  Protect them and love them so they can also come into your truth.  Bless Mr. Armstrong and all the ministry with wisdom and true love for the brethren.  Protect your work from those that would harm it.  Help me to inspire and teach your people correctly 
and to be patient with those who don't understand.  

Thank you so much that I have found the truth and a church that is united in hope and doctrine and one in charity and love. " 

I think we get the point here. Just make up your own or remember the ones you offered up.  We all know how well those requests all went.  The Church tanked, the truth changed, New errors were added to or replaced older ones. Mr. Armstrong was not a man to listen to advice and council.  The college tanked along with all congregations for the most part. Unity and Harmony was a joke.  Children whose Angels do watch over them were killed for inattention, mistakes in where they swam or how not to look at a gun.  Many died not seeing that car or forgetting to pay attention to driving when driving.  Oh yes, don't forget falling under a hedge hog mower or those crushed under the weight of farm machinery.  And when all else failed, remember those surviving parents who were not comforted by "You'll see them again in the kingdom,"  "At least you have other children,"  "God won't give you more than you can handle,"  or "God's ways are not YOUR ways."

Have you ever asked for something, even something that was good and right and would be of great encouragement and deeply appreciated, and gotten it?

Have you asked Go

Do you think it would be wise if whenever anyone asked for anything, they got it?  

Do you wonder why when it says you will, you never did or don't?

If the Bible is seriously true and tells the real truth about how life can work for those called according to his purpose, something is seriously wrong here.

Has your faith ever moved a mountain?  Does this mean that the best faith I ever had was not even as big as a mustard seed so it's all our fault anyhow?  If nothing is impossible for me, does the impossible ever really happen when I ask, seek and endeavor to find?  Of course not.  

I remember sitting in a feast audience as the minister of the day was raving about how God intervened and saved a congregant's child from a terrible auto wreck.  He went on and on quoting all the right scriptures and I cringed.  I had just buried the teen killed in a wreck of people sitting a few rows over from me.  I imagine in an audience of a few thousand, scores are sitting there feeling faithless and cursed because "in my house it was not so."   At the noon ministerial luncheon I talked to him about it.  While I understood what he meant, I asked him if he realized there are dozens of parents now unable to eat their lunch because God did nothing of what he promised to their children.  I asked him if he realized the pain he caused to many more than just the good spoken of for one.  I asked him to think about the wisdom of that and maybe he needed to be more careful in the future. He just looked at me like I was nuts. 

 It reminds me of David saying,  "I have been young and now I am old and I have NEVER seen a righteous man beg bread."  Really David?  Did you ever get out of the Palace much?  I've seen that a lot.

I have laid hands on hundreds and hundreds of very sick people.  Let's see.  How many were healed of death dealing illness such as cancer?  How many of the blind did I restore or deaf came to hear again?  In my youthful ministry and the week after I was ordained a local elder I had my first opportunity to anoint someone.  I have never told this story that I remember and know my family does not know this.  I anointed my own brother who is literally blind, deaf and cannot speak.  Birth defects and trauma.  We sat on the bed upstairs in the home of my youth. I layed hands on his head and he made his typical noises wondering what I was doing but took it all rather patiently.  I said something like....

Dear Heavenly Father,  I come to you for the first time in my life as a minister in your church.  I can now follow James 5:14-16 and anoint your people who you promised to hear if they called upon you. ( I know, my brother didn't ask me to do this, but he couldn't remember?! )  I ask you to restore my brother's sight. I know this sounds impossible but please restore his missing eye that he lost to glaucoma when he was 12.  Please restore his hearing and in your mercy, please restore his speech.  How impressed and grateful my parents would be!  We know your word and what you say about this. Please hear me and thank you for placing me in the ministry...In Jesus name....amen.

Well, I meant well.  Of course he is still blind and deaf and can't speak.  Actually he's on Social Security now, lives in a huge group home and has someone who advocates for him because he can't.  I have to say he has done better than I have to this point.  Maybe it's a joke on me.  Yeah that's it!  I would be better of in life after WCG promised for years "we will take care of you," (boy did they) by poking my eyes out, cutting out my vocal cords and pouring superglue in my ears.  The Kingdoms of this world at least would have helped me out a bit.  

"Ask anything," "I will do it,"  "Anyone,"  "Whatever you ask,"  "...will raise the sick,"   are very big promises.  They also are not true.  

Oh I know, "Dennis, you don't have any faith."But God still knows what's best for us,"  "The wisdom of man is foolishness with God,"  "My ways are not your ways,"  "There is a way that SEEMS right unto a man, but...."  "The wisdom of man is foolishness with God," and so on.  God always wins.  The requester is always wrong and has totally missed the true intent of what God meant.  "Let all men be found liars..." or something like that.

"Where two or three are gathered together in my name, there I am in the midst of them."  Really?  Where is this going on?  My experience is that where two or three are gathered together in your name, one declares themselves in charge, one gets to follow and one get's to clean up after the first two. I guess I missed something in my experience.

Remember, these are not just philosophers pontificating in their Ivory Towers.  This is what JESUS said.  Nothing could be more clear if it wasn't so iffy and untrue.  I expect if we gathered thousands of really true Christians and they all strictly went by these teachings of JESUS, and we all prayed for all war to stop, all disease to end, all hate to become love and for all God's children who are red and yellow, black and white and are precious in his sight to go to bed fed and loved from now on, we'd know how it would go.  

It's still going that way.

Don't tell me this will all be fixed in the Kingdom.  Don't tell me God just hasn't answered yet or that "sometimes the answer is no."  I can deal with sometimes, but not never since these are the clear teachings of Jesus and the really true Apostles. 

A word from the pagan, uncalled, uninspired, unfaithful, unchristian Epicurus, know for his epicurean paradox.

"Either God wants to abolish evil, and cannot; or he can, but does not want to. If he wants to, but cannot, he is impotent. If he can, but does not want to, he is wicked. If God can abolish evil, and God really wants to do it, why is there evil in the world?" — Epicurus, as quoted in 2000 Years of Disbelief
I could not have said it better myself.  Am I the only one who notices this or dares to speak it?  Did Jesus lie or not mean what we think he meant?  Does healing not mean healing or given not mean given?  Is the Bible speaking in some kind of code we can't figure out or just being plain wrong and lying about how it all is? 
"Grandfather...is this some kind of joke?"

Warm regards on these hot topics...

Dennis Diehl...formerly called "Mr."  :)

DenniscDiehl@aol.com