Glynn Washington On Racism And Life In The Worldwide Church of God Culture

End-time prophecies? 

Memorizing the bible? 

Required church vacations your family can't afford? 

Snap Judgment host and creator Glynn Washington shares his experiences 

growing up in the apocalyptic religion the Worldwide Church of God. 

He tells the girls about believing the end of the world was imminent, 

the white supremacist roots of the group 

and how he was forbidden from dating outside of his race, 

and the book that began to change his thinking. 

If you have your own story about cults, high-control groups, manipulation, or abuse of power, 

leave us a voicemail at 513-900-2955, OR shoot us an email at trustmepod@gmail.com. 

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OR TWITTER: @trustmecultpod @ohlalola

Listen here: #39: Glynn Washington - The Worldwide Church of God

Former WCG Member On Being Black and Jewish

On being Black and Jewish

June 28, 2020

SAN DIEGO — Being of mixed racial background and also Jewish often feels like no matter what group you are with, you are perceived as the “other,” sometimes prompting doubts if there is any group with which you truly belong. Such was the thrust of comments made by Jessica Lemoine and Jenni Asher during an Internet forum on Sunday sponsored by the San Diego Outreach Synagogue and moderated by Rabbi/ Cantor Cheri Weiss and her husband Dan Weiss.

Asher, a musician with a degree from the Royal Academy of Music in London, is now studying for the cantorate at the Academy of Jewish Religion in California, the same institution at which Rabbi/Cantor Weiss was ordained. Married to a Jew whose family fled Egypt, Asher decided to convert to Judaism first in a Conservative ceremony and later in an Orthodox one. When her 2-year-old daughter grows up, she explained, should she want to marry a religious Jew, she doesn’t want anyone to question the authenticity of her mother’s conversion.

Prior to Asher’s decision to become a Jew by choice, she had been a member of the fundamentalist Worldwide Church of God, whose members often styled themselves as inheritors of Biblical Judaism. She said she decided to search out “real Jews” and began attending synagogue in London, then continued her exploration of Judaism and eventual conversion in the United States. At first, she said, she welcomed explanations of synagogue rituals from members of the congregations she attended, but after she learned her way through the rituals, she was bothered that people still assumed that she had to be instructed — that because of her skin color, she must not be Jewish. “To be seen as the other, comes as a surprise, when you don’t think of yourself as the other,” she said.

Asher recalled playing violin at a Friday night service, and being asked afterwards by a female congregant, who was White, whether it was true that she was Jewish. The mother explained that her daughter is half-Mexican and considers herself to be, like Asher, a “Jew of Color.” Asher said anyone who looked at the girl would consider her to be White, no matter her Mexican heritage. “I had to grapple with my feelings: ‘This girl passes, what problems does she have?’ At that point, Asher added, “I realized that I’m as racist as anyone else.” Difficult conversations among people of different race are needed “to recognize these feelings exist.”

Asked if she had ever experienced anti-Semitism, she said she had been challenged by people of her former church, but that the opposition she felt was “different” from the kind of negativity she experiences as a Black person.

Read the rest of the article here:  On being Black and Jewish

Charles Hunting 1919-2011

CHARLES FREEMAN HUNTING (1919 – 2011)

Charles Freeman Hunting (commonly known as “CFH”), a figure well known in Worldwide Church of God (WCG) circles and its offshoots, died at a hospice in Sarasota, Florida, on 11th of November, 2011 – Veterans Day (or Remembrance / Armistice Day). He was just short of his 93rd birthday.

CFH was a strong and colorful personality, handsome in appearance and very persuasive in vocal delivery. Friends and opponents alike considered him a person of charm and warmth, with a mischievous streak. Charles could be insensitive and overly candid in expressing his opinions, although he had a reputation for being honest. He was a gifted speaker who could both inspire and instill fear. At the height of his career in the WCG, he was one of the top five executives, and met dignitaries, presidents and royalty in many countries, including Emperor Haile Selassie, Golda Meir, Yigal Yadin, Gideon Hausner, King Leopold, and the presidents of Lebanon and Egypt. His life can be conveniently segmented into three stages – the roughly 35 years before joining the WCG, the 20 years as part of that organization, and the 35 plus years of a relatively quiet life after separation from the group. 

Charles Hunting was the second and last child of Charles and Esther Hunting, born on 11th January 1919 in Santa Monica, California. He attended Redlands High School, then 3 years at San Bernardino College and one year at UCLA. Shortly thereafter WWII started and he volunteered for the Navy as a trainee pilot, received 6 or so weeks of flight training for combat fighters, and was dispatched on an aircraft carrier to the Pacific theatre. During the battle of Guadalcanal in late 1942 he was shot down by “friendly fire”, wanted to bail out, but his parachute was riddled with machine gun fire and full of blood. The plane crashed into the ocean, he survived and was rescued by locals paddling out on canoes. CFH continued to fly fighter and dive bombing combat missions from carriers till the end of the war, and was awarded the Distinguished Flying Cross and the Purple Heart.

During the war CFH met Miss Veryle Cheney who served in the navy’s Medical Corp. After the war romance blossomed and in 1946 they apparently eloped across the border to Mexico where they were married. The coupled settled in Long Beach, California and had three children. CFH started a business refitting and refurbishing electrical transformers, having learnt the basics for the trade from a relative. It became very successful. Charles remained in the Navy Reserves and was training on jet planes when he abruptly resigned in 1956, just six months before he was to qualify for a Navy pension. He was a Lieutenant Commander when he retired. This unusual action was triggered by Charles’s decision to dedicate his life to the WCG church, which had been founded in the 1930’s by Herbert W Armstrong (HWA), and was a pacifist organization.

The family moved to Pasadena where in 1958, aged 39, CFH enrolled for a BA in liberal arts at the church’s training institution, Ambassador College (AC). His credits from previous tertiary studies reduced the normal time of four years by one, and thus he was never a sophomore. In his freshman year his first part-time job on the campus was on the garbage collection crew, but his progress within the organization thereafter was rather meteoric. His junior year saw him in charge of “the mail reading division” which handled the thousands of inquiries and requests for church literature, and appointed the lead on a two man team visiting church supporters. Charles was also a sportsman of note. In each of his two years at the Pasadena campus, he was the tennis champion and best hand ball player. In his senior year he was the Student Body President, ordained a minister in the WCG and transferred, with his family, to the Bricket Wood (Hertfordshire, UK) campus in March 1961, three months prior to graduation. In June 1961 he received his BA in the first graduation ceremony for the English campus, and was then given a flurry of responsibilities --- appointed as a lecturer at the English campus, made its bursar, appointed to Business Manager of the WCG’s activities in Europe, ordained a minister of the WCG, and designated the pastor of the Bristol WCG church. In 1962 he was raised to the level of “preaching elder”, and later in the same year ordained as a “pastor” rank minister. In January 1964 he was ordained an “evangelist”, bringing the total number of evangelists in the WCG to 12 at that time. In December 1969 he was appointed as one of the nine Vice Presidents of the WCG. He formed an effective team with the Regional Director for Europe, Raymond McNair.

In the mid-1960’s, HWA began to form personal friendships with a number of powerful figures, particularly in Israel, Germany and Asia. These included kings, dictators, high officials, as well as elected presidents. CFH, as one of HWA’s trusted advisers, was a frequent traveling companion (often along with his wife Veryle) on these trips, which took them across the globe. These travels were undertaken while still performing all his other responsibilities. Unfortunately, Charles’s wife Veryle died of cancer in 1973 and was buried on the campus grounds. Apparently in that year HWA indicated to CFH that he would eventually be elevated to the number two position in the organization, and that he would need to move to Pasadena. However there was considerable opposition to this plan and it never eventuated. Instead in 1974 CFH was appointed the regional director of the entire WCG activities in the UK, Europe and the Middle East, whilst the incumbent in that job, Raymond McNair, was transferred to Pasadena. 

During this time the WCG began to experience a series of crises. Various scandals shook the church, and several senior ministers and internal theologians began to question some of the doctrines. CFH was persuaded that some of the core teachings were in error. He spoke out, and his relationship with the WCG ended in late 1975. He resolved not to take a salary again from a religious organization; however, he never lost his faith in God and Christianity.

CFH threw his still considerable energies into making a living, and became involved in, among other ventures, construction in Dubai and golf courses in Spain. In 1980 he married again. His new wife was Barbara Greville-Smith, an English widow whom he had met in Spain, and whose best friend was Mrs. Yolande Farrell of Sarasota. Yolande and her husband Dick Farrell formed a longstanding close friendship with Charles. The Hunting’s moved to Vero Beach, Florida, where they lived in a duplex that CFH built. He resumed studying biblical doctrines privately and with help from Sir Anthony Buzzard was soon convinced of the Christian non-Trinitarian view of God, and co-wrote a book with him on the subject. He became a supporter of Buzzard’s Restoration Fellowship for many years. 

The year 1997 was traumatic as first his mother died, then both his only sister Frances and her husband Jack Bryan also died, and finally his wife Barbara passed away from cancer. Although Charles, now 78, became a man of considerable means due to his brother-in-law and sister’s estate being left to him, he chose to live his remaining years without flare or extravagance. He briefly moved to Atlanta, Georgia, and shortly thereafter in 1998 bought a modest 2 bedroom stucco semi-detached cottage close by his friends the Farrell’s in Sarasota, where he lived happily until his death. He supported humanitarian projects in the Philippines and Africa, making overseas visits on several occasions there and to relatives and friends in Australia until his health made it impractical. As with many hard-driving, successful men, his great regret was that he was not closer to his immediate family members.

About four years ago his health began to decline and he eventually needed kidney dialysis. CFH outlived his close friend Dick Farrell. Mrs. Yolande Farrell helped care for him in the last years of his life as he became increasingly infirm, although she herself was already in her 80’s. Charles was admitted to hospital in early November, and a few days before he died was moved to a hospice. His youngest son, Paul, daughter Sidni and her husband Dennis, together with Mrs. Farrell, were with him in his final days. His eldest son Chris, in Australia, was unable to travel there. CFH died in his sleep, and was buried in the Department of Veterans Affairs Sarasota National Cemetery.

Charles Freeman Hunting is survived by his three children, Chris, Sidni and Paul, as well as nine grandchildren and eleven great-grandchildren. Chris Hunting suggests the following should be his epitaph:

“A unique individual who achieved much. Respected and admired by most, 
feared by many; a truly larger than life character, but not without human flaws”

[Obituary prepared by Dr. Garry de Jager, Robert Gerringer and Chris Hunting]

Good Night WCG-Gracie/A Few Final Thoughts

Good Night WCG-Gracie/A Few Final Thoughts

To begin with, this letter is for me and perhaps part of my own life experience and healing after a 26 year run as a Pastor in the Worldwide Church of God. I came to the Church philosophically at the age of 16, having grown up Presbyterian in a very stable and loving family. The teachings of the WCG appealed to me and made more sense if one was to read and take the Bible as a fundamentally true document in all the areas that it claimed to express it's truth. The world of the 60's was chaotic. Presidents were assassinated, politicians were gunned down and civil rights protesters and leaders were being beaten, hung, drawn and shot. The Middle East was on fire as were many American cities. The Bible seemed to say that the end of something was near. I was also young and naive, but with wonderful intentions.

I went to Ambassador College against the wishes of my parents, who simply allowed me to make my own decisions. What a wonderful concept, allowing your kids to make their own religious decisions, even though I recently told my dad, now near 90 and a former elder in WCG, that I wish he had slapped me silly for even thinking of going. Of course, at that time, that would have only proved to me that it was the right thing to do since I was being opposed and at the time, I just knew I had to be there. I had to study and wanted to see the world through the eyes of the Church. It just seemed right to me and any ego loves believing that God himself was doing the calling. I was not drawn by the Armstrong personalities at first. There were many times at college where they annoyed me and I knew that what was spoken so brilliantly and with charisma, was in fact, not actually true, or simply speculation about the times in which were living. The information is what caught my attention. I was a very serious thinker at a very young age. There are reasons for that that I now understand completely, but I spare you.


And so I went to Ambassador. I wanted to be a pastor and even though I heard that God had to call you and, of course, the administration had to choose you, I studied as if it was all up to me. I had a 3.96 grade average. I enjoyed studying the Bible. I simply wanted to know "the truth". I got corrected for hair too long and not enough attendance at basketball games. I didn't care about basketball, but to make me show up, they made me be a flag something-or-other in a white coat and I felt like an idiot. I should have said no, but complied. I complied a lot over the next 26 years over more serious topics, though teaching and encouraging the congregation was more important to me than enforcing silly or reckless rules about various topics.
After graduation I went into "the field". Five states, 14 congregations and 26 years later, in a five minute phone call at 9:30 in the evening, I was terminated. Strangely enough, it was the anniversary of my baptism at 19 years old.


Now is the moment I have to be honest about me if I am to continue. I currently am a skeptic as to the origins and history of the Christian Church. That is my business and the result of my own study and perspectives. The WCG experience caused me to really look deeply into origins and I personally found I was not told near the truth about the matter. They didn't know near as much as they pretended to know. I was coming to some of these conclusions during the last few years as a pastor. I can hear some of this skepticism in some of my last Festival sermons. I felt that if a whole church administration can publicly flip an entire organization's belief system and expect compliance, I can certainly entertain the doubts and contradictions I have seen in the Bible quietly by myself. I could have easily walked off with most of the local congregation if I wanted to have years of local politics and doing what Christian Churches do best... argue, judge and fight, but I was done. I will never lose my interest in theology. I still want to know the truth even if it is not the one I set out to understand. I simply will not join another church again. From my perspective the Old and the New WCG was and is ill informed as is all literalist, evangelical and fundamentalist Christianity. That may not be true for you, but it is true for me. My favorite observation is that most Christians are piously convicted but marginally informed. That is true to me.


Most pastoring years were personally rewarding. I did not have to work in large cities playing games with other pastors who had empires to rule and egos to feed. I simply did my job, love those I met, laughed with them, cried with them, married and buried spouses, children and relatives, along with growing churches. I drove approximately one million miles (really) visiting, being a friend and believing I was doing the right thing.

There were lots of guys and families like mine. It's the narcissists that got all the bad press and still do. Towards the end, when every visit turned into a slug fest over what the Tkach's were doing in the Church, any capacity was a burden and not a joy. It was a miserable experience. Your friend one day became your lost friend the next. On top of that, I was in the American Southeast where being judgmental and critical of others not like you has been raised to an art form. Around here, every third male thinks that if he can read and tell a few stories, he is a Pastor. It's one of the few professions where one with no education or meaningful credentials can claim ultimate authority from God, and be someone.


By analogy, I came to a hockey game and at half time, someone came out, melted the ice, put up hoops and demanded I not only play, but coach Basketball, which if you remember...I don't like. Suffering a personal depression and a lot of regret over having given my youth and energy to the ever-changing truth, I made some mistakes that would be considered unacceptable as a pastor. Outside of the ministry and its neurotic demand to "become perfect, even as your Father in heaven is perfect," it would just be what it was and a common, oft told tale and theme of what I would help many a member with and through. But as a pastor, I could be criticized and I accept that. No one can live the life, feel the feelings or have the thoughts of another. Not in a real world.


At any rate, I stayed to encourage the local congregation. It did not work. The assault on what we must now think and do was relentless and those who did not participate simply had to go. If you were a minister, you simply lost everything and had to reinvent your life after being "uncalled" if being "recalled" and retrofitted did not make you a good little evangelical, hand waving, "cross" eyed, freak. YOU, not I managed to reduce my local congregation from just under 400 very sincere and faithful people to around 25 now meeting in some hokey storefront giving out Halloween candy with scriptures on the wrappers! Oh barf (it was a printable story on spreading the Gospel in the WN) ...winning converts with Scriptural Halloween candy!! It is simply pathetic to see a congregation and a MINISTER reduced to that nonsense. YOU, not I managed to reduce all my previous congregations by 90%+ Nice work.


Anyway...It simply came down to that five minute call one evening out of the blue informing me that I was done in the ministry and that I could call personnel for the details of the severance package. It was six months pay to get a new life and signing off on any future retirement, unless WCG, which means Bernie Schnippert, deems you loyal enough to support. Of course, I was not so that's quite a savings right there.... Perhaps one can imagine the position that puts one in when in my youth, the church had all ministers sign off on Social Security with the promise that "we will take care of you". Well actually you have taken care of me... but good.


My dad worked for Eastman Kodak, has been retired for years and you know, he once bought Fuji film, and Kodak still gives him retirement. Retirement is not based on loyalty. It is based on years of service.


You can't ask people to be loyal to something that was pushed upon them and with which they had little agreement. Most of the people in WCG came FROM where you wanted to go. You can't ask people to change their minds, hopes and faith just because YOU think they should agree with you. Life, much less the human mind does not work that way. Frankly, those of you who "administer" the church, should have left long ago and asked Benny Hinn, TBN , and the Harvest Crock Church to take you in as spiritual refugees. I realize you could not continue to grant yourselves lifetime income and security by doing this, but it is what YOU should have done and left the Church, whose perspective you scorned, alone. If it was wrong for YOU, then leave it, don't destroy it and drive most to despair, skepticism and in some few cases literal suicide. Instead, you made everyone else leave. Now that's power...stupid, self-serving and egocentric power. Benny Hinn has a rule that he does not want people looking him in the eyes. He makes it a rule wherever he goes. He does it as part of his holy farce, fake and failed prophecies ministry because he believes he is more special than others. Perhaps a similar rule would save you all from seeing the pain, hurt and spiritual confusion in the eyes of countless good people, including former ministers who gave just as much and more in some areas a congregant could not appreciate.


You need to remember that the monies you realized in the sale of the campus which you will now "invest" into an almost non existent "worldwide church" and give yourselves and as few others as possible a lifetime income, is labor from the 1950's, 60's 70's 80's and 90's. I'd say you should calculate how much real giving YOU inspired. Real giving, from the heart during your Sheepling of the Sheep and not the efforts of others, whether you agreed with them or not. And you can't count the guilt or habitual giving types. You can only count the purely evangelical fundamentalist "New and Improved Church of God" giving. That's your money to work with. That's the fruit of your labor in "Him" as some say. I'd also like to ask that when you go to eat out, or take a cruise in the fall to not keep an archaic, and Jesus embarrassing non-festival. Or when you pay a mortgage or get a new car or have your health needs taken care of, and do whatever your good Christian Evangelical heart wan ts, you might remember what others might be struggling with just to keep up. I know my own father was able to survive because Kodak had a plan,


I am not so sure about myself at this moment in my life. By others, I include former members also, but mean former pastors with whom I also have had great experience. Please remember when you are tempted to judge or put people in categories of worthy or not worthy, that you're coming to "know" Jesus and reinventing the wheel of truth, and discovering the "old old story", which is older than you can possibly imagine, has cost others a lot. It cost some who were unable to distinguish between the emotional death of their hope and faith and literal death, their lives. That is not a judgment. That is just the way it has been for some.


Being a hard wired sensitive human being (ENFP-let him who reads understand); I understand that feeling and shock. The depression I have wrestled with is really internalized anger, and the sarcasm I am capable of is simply that anger turned sideways. Neither you nor the previous administration were particularly easy people to reason with or explain things to. You are always right it seems, and to date, a rather emotionally cold and calculated group outside your circle and towards those that have reacted to your administration. I have always said when the common folk simply have had enough and say "NO" to childish posturing and the phony authority ministerial administrative types put on, all of a sudden, God inspires a new and better understanding. But in fact, it is simply realizing one can't dismiss the common sense perspectives of educated people and survive.


We get depressed because people don't listen and we lose our bearings with little or no genuine support. You all need to understand that. Personally, I am still amazed that since that one fateful personal call that my career was over, no one ever contacted me again...ever. This is what I mean by cold. I encouraged the local church in my last sermon to continue to support you. I have since regretted the content and misplaced loyalty of my last sermon. I believe that was back when I had just been assured that "we will not be changing" this or that, and it all changed that month.


The emotions that people direct towards the collective "you" for reckless change and indifference to the spiritual and physical sacrifices made by thousands and which now result in your having more money than you need to "do the work", is quite normal. I suspect, as do others, you knew what your losses would be, but did not care, and still don't. Maybe even you don't know why you do and did what you did. Perhaps that would take a professional to sort out.


I don't know the games you played with your Evangelical supporters behind the scenes but I do know that "the Bible Answer Man" and others you have embraced also show a pattern of financial gain through religious manipulation and theological ignorance. Hank Hanegraaf's perspective on evolution and literal human origins is simply ignorant. He is not qualified to write on such topics as if he knew. His mistake as well as that of the Fundamentalist and Evangelical mind-set is to take the text as literally and historically true from the start without question, but that is another whole topic. I can't tell you how many Evangelical type ministers I have met in my other life now that have said, "I know you are right, but I can't teach that, I'd lose my job." Grab a copy of Rescuing the Bible from Fundamentalism, by John Spong and then try to say the Bible is all harmonious and literally true. It's a very simple read and with your backgrounds, you should be very capable of grasping it's message. The same is to be said of many of the theological articles you now write. Pious conviction with marginal information.


Finally, and I know I will always be able to think of more to say, I wanted to comment on your "Ministry of Reconciliation." While I am all for Black/White reconciliation, it is majoring in the minors at this point. I know how difficult it is to communicate with those you have offended. Or maybe I am only seeing this topic through my own eyes and for you it is not difficult at all. I don't know. I do know that reconciling with races is not your main problem. It is the inability to reconcile with people that has been your undoing.


It may take a few more years, but this lack will leave WCG dead and buried in just about any form. Only a small group of people will have a lot of money. I imagine you can afford to dabble in just about any Evangelical fantasy you choose. You can associate with whoever is the most emotionally satisfying regardless of how anyone left in WCG feels about it and whether it represents their hopes and dreams. I also feel that the new owners of the property are another religious scandal waiting to happen. Men with that much emotion, power, influence and ridiculous religious showmanship wear many masks and cannot maintain all of them all the time. Truly spiritual people don't need others to define them, but Sheeple remember, need Shepherds. I will say that if I hear or see any of you standing with Benny Hinn in the Rededication of the Ambassador Auditorium, to a new and improved God from the last time it was dedicated, I will vomit. It will however prove that the unchangeable God changes often depending on who gets to write the script. It would be a great symbol of everything that is wrong with all those various denominations that know the one true mind of God. God is so often in the image of the men who speak for Him. At any rate, put some thought into who you really might need to reconcile with and see what you come up with. I won't hold my breath.


I thank any and all for listening to me open up and express these things. I realize I can be sarcastic. I realize that I still have anger I don't wish to have and regrets about not speaking up in times past I can only remedy by speaking up now. I also realize I have nothing to loose, which even Janis Joplin defined as true freedom.
I wanted to be a pastor from a very young age. The reasons were probably rather hokey, but they were sincere. The WCG seemed right at the time. I had to be there. I accept responsibility for being there and also for being here now. I simply ask you to reconsider your perspectives and responsibilities. You might be able to dismiss it because " we weren't responsible for the past." I will simply say. I am not talking about the past. That is over and done with. If you can't take some responsibility for the past, then you can't control the money you have now gotten from the sale of the past. It's that simple. I don't expect you take responsibility for the past administration's way of being and doing. But your way of being and doing in the recent past is more than enough for you to take responsibility for and do whatever you really think your new Jesus would do.
Warm regards and thanks for listening,

Dennis C. Diehl
DenniscDiehl@aol.com

A Lesson for the Churches of God

A Lesson for the Churches of God

(and all humans)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10084L3Pqsc

Was there ever a time in your past when you wondered what would be going on in the year 2011?  If you speculating as someone then immersed in the 50's or 60's or 70's it would have seemed like a million years away.  If you were a member of the Worldwide Church of God, and could know, the following truths now revealed by then would be as follows.

Surely by then...Jesus will have returned

The Kingdom will be here

I'd be ruling over others  (this one never appealed to me. I wanted to go fishing and be left alone for a few thousand years)

The deaf would hear, the blind would see and the lame man leap as a hart

The Lion and the Lamb would be best buddies

Everyone would going to the Feast and I mean everybody....or else.

Sermons would be given by the real Apostles when God and Jesus were away on business

We would be proven to have been right about everything

Well, maybe not Mr. Waterhouse.....

However and Actually...................................

Jesus did not return

The world grinds on

Herbert Armstrong would be dead for 25 years

Garner Ted Armstrong would be dead

Hermann Hoeh would be dead

Dean Blackwell would be dead

Dibar Apartian would be dead

Stan Radar would be dead

Gerald Waterhouse would be dead

All the youthful Evangelists and ministers would be very old

Your local church will be gone

Ambassador would be gone

Ambassador would be sold to Evangelical Sunday keeping, Christmas Keeping, Easter Celebrating Pagans

The Worldwide Church of God would be keeping Sunday, Christmas, Easter and wallowing in the mysteries of the Trinity

The Worldwide Church of God would have broken up into 700 splinter and sliver churches each being the true one. 

Mr. and Mrs. Ron Weinland would be the Two Witnesses

Twenty one other men would also be the Two Witnesses

Dave Pack would be the only true Apostle heading the only true remnant of the only true church.

Gerald Flurry will have recreated a hologram of Ambassador College and continue to be the reincarnation of HWA, but Dave Pack would be upset about that wanting his own hologram of HWA, WCG and Ambassador College

You would still be sending it in to someone if still unconscious. 

The United Church of God would divide again and again.

The Brotherly Love Church of God will forbid you to talk to your brothers unless they belong to said church.  This is commonly known as Influrryating.

The Living Church of God is dying.

60 years later we'll still be waiting "3-5, no more than 10-15, 20 tops years to go brethren, and I mean it."  

The Big Sandy Egrets will have flown to Oklahoma along with HWA's prayer rock

Few will have ever heard of the Plain Truth

Few will have heard of The Philadelphia  Trumpet

Few will have heard about the Grace Whatever Church of God, formerly known as Prince

Whew, and there is a whole lot more where that all comes from.  

Life, in all it's constructs, hopes, dreams, speculations, mess ups and insanity is one big Mandala.  Crafted over time only to be brushed away to return to it's source as if it never existed.   Or rather, it takes on a different form, rejoins the universe and goes on to be part of the much bigger picture.

And now we know....

DenniscDiehl@aol.com  

Is It a Sin to Notice Prayer Doesn't Work as Advertised?

Is It a Sin to Notice Prayer Doesn't Work as Advertised?

This is a tough one.  The faithful will get defensive on the outside but know what I'm asking is true on the inside.  Apologetics will follow along "But God still knows what's best for us,"  "The wisdom of man is foolishness with God,"  "My ways are not your ways,"  "There is a way that SEEMS right unto a man, but...."  "The wisdom of man is foolishness with God," and so on.  God always wins.

But is so bad to simply ask based on experience and observation, what do these promises mean if there is a God behind them with the power to do as stated?

"Dear God,  I need rent money.... "

"No"

"Dear God, bless our Church and help the work to grow."

"No"

Dear God,  please heal my cancer, my condition, my life, my heart, my soul, my illness."

"No"

"Dear God, Please let my child live..."
"No"

 

I think we get the point.

 Matthew 7:7   "Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. 8 For everyone who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened.

 

 Matthew 17:20  He replied, “Because you have so little faith. Truly I tell you, if you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, ‘Move from here to there,’ and it will move. Nothing will be impossible for you.”

 

 Matthew 21:21  Jesus replied, “Truly I tell you, if you have faith and do not doubt, not only can you do what was done to the fig tree, but also you can say to this mountain, ‘Go, throw yourself into the sea,’ and it will be done.

 

 Mark 11:24  Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours.

 

 John 14:12-14  Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. ¹³ And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. ¹⁴ You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it.

 

, Matthew 18:19 Again, truly I tell you that if two of you on earth agree about anything they ask for, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven.  

 James 5:1-16  Is anyone among you sick? Let them call the elders of the church to pray over them and anoint them with oil in the name of the Lord. ¹⁵ And the prayer offered in faith will make the sick person well; the Lord will raise them up. If they have sinned, they will be forgiven. ¹⁶ Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person is powerful and effective. 

So here we go.  

"Dear Heavenly Father.  Thank you for my life and for calling me into the truth.  Please bless the work of God. Please watch over Mr. Armstrong and bless the college.  Thank you for your mercy and bringing me here to learn more about your word.  Help me to be a good student and to learn all that is taught to me of your truth. Please use me in you're work because that is why I have come these 3000 miles against my family's wishes for.  I promise to teach faithfully and with a humble spirit. . Thank you that you have allowed them not to question the wisdom of this choice.  Please use me someday in your work.  I came here to study your word and learn your ways. I do wish to help your people as a minister.

Please watch over all the children whose Angels do watch over them.  Protect them and love them so they can also come into your truth.  Bless Mr. Armstrong and all the ministry with wisdom and true love for the brethren.  Protect your work from those that would harm it.  Help me to inspire and teach your people correctly 
and to be patient with those who don't understand.  

Thank you so much that I have found the truth and a church that is united in hope and doctrine and one in charity and love. " 

I think we get the point here. Just make up your own or remember the ones you offered up.  We all know how well those requests all went.  The Church tanked, the truth changed, New errors were added to or replaced older ones. Mr. Armstrong was not a man to listen to advice and council.  The college tanked along with all congregations for the most part. Unity and Harmony was a joke.  Children whose Angels do watch over them were killed for inattention, mistakes in where they swam or how not to look at a gun.  Many died not seeing that car or forgetting to pay attention to driving when driving.  Oh yes, don't forget falling under a hedge hog mower or those crushed under the weight of farm machinery.  And when all else failed, remember those surviving parents who were not comforted by "You'll see them again in the kingdom,"  "At least you have other children,"  "God won't give you more than you can handle,"  or "God's ways are not YOUR ways."

Have you ever asked for something, even something that was good and right and would be of great encouragement and deeply appreciated, and gotten it?

Have you asked Go

Do you think it would be wise if whenever anyone asked for anything, they got it?  

Do you wonder why when it says you will, you never did or don't?

If the Bible is seriously true and tells the real truth about how life can work for those called according to his purpose, something is seriously wrong here.

Has your faith ever moved a mountain?  Does this mean that the best faith I ever had was not even as big as a mustard seed so it's all our fault anyhow?  If nothing is impossible for me, does the impossible ever really happen when I ask, seek and endeavor to find?  Of course not.  

I remember sitting in a feast audience as the minister of the day was raving about how God intervened and saved a congregant's child from a terrible auto wreck.  He went on and on quoting all the right scriptures and I cringed.  I had just buried the teen killed in a wreck of people sitting a few rows over from me.  I imagine in an audience of a few thousand, scores are sitting there feeling faithless and cursed because "in my house it was not so."   At the noon ministerial luncheon I talked to him about it.  While I understood what he meant, I asked him if he realized there are dozens of parents now unable to eat their lunch because God did nothing of what he promised to their children.  I asked him if he realized the pain he caused to many more than just the good spoken of for one.  I asked him to think about the wisdom of that and maybe he needed to be more careful in the future. He just looked at me like I was nuts. 

 It reminds me of David saying,  "I have been young and now I am old and I have NEVER seen a righteous man beg bread."  Really David?  Did you ever get out of the Palace much?  I've seen that a lot.

I have laid hands on hundreds and hundreds of very sick people.  Let's see.  How many were healed of death dealing illness such as cancer?  How many of the blind did I restore or deaf came to hear again?  In my youthful ministry and the week after I was ordained a local elder I had my first opportunity to anoint someone.  I have never told this story that I remember and know my family does not know this.  I anointed my own brother who is literally blind, deaf and cannot speak.  Birth defects and trauma.  We sat on the bed upstairs in the home of my youth. I layed hands on his head and he made his typical noises wondering what I was doing but took it all rather patiently.  I said something like....

Dear Heavenly Father,  I come to you for the first time in my life as a minister in your church.  I can now follow James 5:14-16 and anoint your people who you promised to hear if they called upon you. ( I know, my brother didn't ask me to do this, but he couldn't remember?! )  I ask you to restore my brother's sight. I know this sounds impossible but please restore his missing eye that he lost to glaucoma when he was 12.  Please restore his hearing and in your mercy, please restore his speech.  How impressed and grateful my parents would be!  We know your word and what you say about this. Please hear me and thank you for placing me in the ministry...In Jesus name....amen.

Well, I meant well.  Of course he is still blind and deaf and can't speak.  Actually he's on Social Security now, lives in a huge group home and has someone who advocates for him because he can't.  I have to say he has done better than I have to this point.  Maybe it's a joke on me.  Yeah that's it!  I would be better of in life after WCG promised for years "we will take care of you," (boy did they) by poking my eyes out, cutting out my vocal cords and pouring superglue in my ears.  The Kingdoms of this world at least would have helped me out a bit.  

"Ask anything," "I will do it,"  "Anyone,"  "Whatever you ask,"  "...will raise the sick,"   are very big promises.  They also are not true.  

Oh I know, "Dennis, you don't have any faith."But God still knows what's best for us,"  "The wisdom of man is foolishness with God,"  "My ways are not your ways,"  "There is a way that SEEMS right unto a man, but...."  "The wisdom of man is foolishness with God," and so on.  God always wins.  The requester is always wrong and has totally missed the true intent of what God meant.  "Let all men be found liars..." or something like that.

"Where two or three are gathered together in my name, there I am in the midst of them."  Really?  Where is this going on?  My experience is that where two or three are gathered together in your name, one declares themselves in charge, one gets to follow and one get's to clean up after the first two. I guess I missed something in my experience.

Remember, these are not just philosophers pontificating in their Ivory Towers.  This is what JESUS said.  Nothing could be more clear if it wasn't so iffy and untrue.  I expect if we gathered thousands of really true Christians and they all strictly went by these teachings of JESUS, and we all prayed for all war to stop, all disease to end, all hate to become love and for all God's children who are red and yellow, black and white and are precious in his sight to go to bed fed and loved from now on, we'd know how it would go.  

It's still going that way.

Don't tell me this will all be fixed in the Kingdom.  Don't tell me God just hasn't answered yet or that "sometimes the answer is no."  I can deal with sometimes, but not never since these are the clear teachings of Jesus and the really true Apostles. 

A word from the pagan, uncalled, uninspired, unfaithful, unchristian Epicurus, know for his epicurean paradox.

"Either God wants to abolish evil, and cannot; or he can, but does not want to. If he wants to, but cannot, he is impotent. If he can, but does not want to, he is wicked. If God can abolish evil, and God really wants to do it, why is there evil in the world?" — Epicurus, as quoted in 2000 Years of Disbelief
I could not have said it better myself.  Am I the only one who notices this or dares to speak it?  Did Jesus lie or not mean what we think he meant?  Does healing not mean healing or given not mean given?  Is the Bible speaking in some kind of code we can't figure out or just being plain wrong and lying about how it all is? 
"Grandfather...is this some kind of joke?"

Warm regards on these hot topics...

Dennis Diehl...formerly called "Mr."  :)

DenniscDiehl@aol.com 
 

"Why do you bother with the past? Forget about it."

"Why Do You Bother?  Forget About It!

It is not uncommon for someone to tell me "Why do you bother with the past?  Forget about it."  I'd sometimes wonder that myself and know many who seem to be long gone from the WCG experience and yet still stuck or spinning within it.  

We keep up with the splinters and the antics of their ministers.  We, or at least I, listen to their sermons, not for edification, but to confirm that I am happy not to be a part of such foolishness.  I shake my head and chuckle when one such as David Pack, Apostle of the Restored Church of God, uses so many personal pronouns in sermons and begins many with "I don't think I ever given a sermon quit like the one you are going to hear today."  That would be a major hint to me it is all being made up as we go. 

Nothing is more humorous than listening to one of the very two true witnesses of Revelation get angry over people who throw paper on the floor or say the word "amazing" about a zillion times in every sermon usually in wonder at how stupid everyone else besides he and the 12 people in the room are. 

From "That Prophet" to "And yes brethren, I am an Apostle," I find it all rather fascinating now that I don't have soak in it or lay awake at night wondering what else is going to happen to shatter my idealistic belief that it once was to me the True Church of God and I had been called by the Deity to be both member and minister.  I really believed that and I think there in lies the key to the ongoing fascination.

Those who are the most sincere, in my experience, suffer the most when they learn their sincere seeking was misplaced. It accounts for our anger, sarcasm, keeping up and ongoing interest in that which proved to be less than encouraging. I think we subconsciously or very consciously wish to be some kind of vehicle for helping others through the process and coming out better and not worse for the whole experience.

Sadly, some literally ended their lives due to the instability all the upheaval produced in the place they sought solace and safety for their own mind and spirit. I know several ministers who died either deliberately or through the abuse of alcohol so often used to mask the pain, perhaps not realizing just how much it would actually magnify it.  I started down that path for a time out of the pain of separation from that which I loved and at times to mask the pain over the loss of those I love, but got off that train.  For every moment of "forgetting" there were a thousand of depressing recall that just made matters worse.  It is a treadmill one needs to pay very close attention to and just say no to.

There is more truth than the truth we know.  The God many think they know is not all the God there is.  It is the glory of a King to search out a matter, not just accept the ideas of others.  All these things are true.  And while it is incomprehensible for most Bible readers to grasp, there is more truth in life to explore than whatever truth is perceived to be contained in the pages of the Bible.  The Bible is not inerrant, was not written literally by any literal Deity, is not the "best book ever written," and does not tell us where we either really came from nor why exclusively.  

In the Churches of God, neither splinter nor sliver, their pious conviction coupled with their marginal information, training and education is not enough to qualify to tell everyone else what the Deity wants, demands, requires or thinks about us all. 

A few things I have come to know now that I wish someone had taught me back then when thinking I was "called" to be a minister.

Genesis 1-11 are purely mythological stories, mostly borrowed from Sumerian myths and given a Hebrew spin.

"Moses" did not write the Pentateuch but rather is a compilation of different authors mostly Priests during the Captivity of the 5th century BC.

There is no evidence that the dramatic events of the Exodus ever literally happened in history and that most of the OT is designed to give an insignificant cultic people an amazing pedigree.

Characters such as Abraham, Moses, David and Solomon may or may not have literally existed in history. 

Clearly, God "evolves" from a polytheistic Deity to a monotheistic one over a very long time and the people of Israel held on to many gods throughout history.  The Canaanite God "EL" of Genesis was talking to his Council of the gods, when he is quoted as saying "Let US make man in OUR image..."  He was not talking to a future incarnation of himself called Jesus.  When God said, "you shall not bring any other gods into my presence (what the words in Exodus really say,) He wasn't saying there were no other gods. He was saying don't bring them around me as I am a jealous God.  I don't like their competition.  Clearly, polytheisim was the norm. 

Concerning the NT, I wish I had understood that Paul's writings preceded the Gospels which is why he never quotes an earthly Jesus, tells of his life, healings, teachings, miracles or birth circumstances. Those tales had not yet been written in his lifetime.  Paul's Jesus was cosmic and hallucinatory and not any real Jesus he ever knew or met.  I also have doubts about just how much the Jewish Church under James felt Paul was anything but a charlatan.  Luke's rendition of Paul's life and calling is not the one Paul himself speaks of in his real writings.  Not all the books attributed to Paul were actually written by Paul.

The Gospel accounts are not coherent or harmonious. 

Jesus birth narratives in Matthew and Luke are two different stories

Mark never heard the birth stories of Jesus nor did John and Paul said he was merely born of a woman. 

The resurrection accounts are muddled and contradictory in major ways. They can't all be right and are not four different ways of describing a car wreck.

The Book of Revelation is a failed prophecy written just prior to the fall of Jerusalem under the Romans.  It is not a book for today and its expectations of the Kingdom of God to route the Romans failed.  

The story of Jesus is the same story as Mithras and Osiris and is astrotheological in nature.  All Sun Gods are born on the Winter Solstice and all take away the sins and darkness of the world which they overcome at Easter in the Spring. 

Christian apologetics get down right silly at times

Life is short....and lots more stuff like that.

So why bother keeping up?  Because it's fascinating and I have always loved the study of origins.  From where humans really come from (common hominid ancestors) to the origins of mythologies and ideas that spring from them, its all amazing.  I want to know what may be worth believing and what may be just plain silly or even harmful.  Much of what religion, not true spirituality, teaches or demands sucks the soul out people and is harmful in the long run.  Religion keeps you the same yesterday, today and forever.  There can be no progress when you know it all.  It is no coincidence the Dark Ages arose when the Church did.  

I may regret my WCG experience but I can't undo it.  Next time around...if, I want to be a Paleontologist.   You can't unring a bell.  So I may as well use it to learn from.  And perhaps if I can help just one person step out of the box and take a bigger look around, it will be worth it.  It is for me a challenge and fascination though the price of this education has been and will continue to be high.

To not accept what is, is insane.  To not use the experience to help others  grow through is a wasted experience. 

Namaste....

DenniscDiehl@aol.com 

A Personal Note From Dennis Diehl

First of all I would like to thank the many kind and supportive comments sent along by those who find my articles and insights with my own experience as a minister in WCG helpful.  I have to say it gives me a bit more sense of purpose in this life than just having to figure out what to do with the rest of my life now that the "wonder years" are long past.

I would like you all to know that writing is how I have processed my own experience as a man who really really wanted to be a part of the right church and teach the true Bible truth.  I had been accepted to a Methodist Seminary at the same time I was accepted at AC and obviously made the "wrong" choice.  I have no illusions about the fact that I believe that no matter where I had ended up learning someone's denominational truth,  I would have had just about the same kind of crisis there too.

It is not my purpose to anger to challenge anyone's beliefs.  Perhaps I just wish to open up our minds to the fact that there are bigger boxes to be looked in that when we first believed.  Having been a WCG pastor, I know how we were "trained" and it was not well.  You cannot understand origins and the history of the Bible by reading booklets written by in house wondermen or just by reading the text and commenting on what it seems to mean.  An educated Pastor has a formidable education in the right place and often cannot bring all he "knows" to a congregation being about 50 years ahead of their ability to  understand it.  It is why pastors who fall out of favor with the company line usually end up teaching it if they have the initial credentials to keep on.  In the WCG a minister did not and is why I now rub people the right way along with helping them with anything from headaches to injuries.  I always had a medical side to me.

I have made some rather large mistakes since having to move on from those days.  Actually I made some large ones during those days too.  I have had to wrestle with the anxiety of separation from everything familiar and I caused it in some cases.  My tone in some writings is a bit cheeky because it is my anger turned sideways which seems to be the definition of sarcasm.  As a pastor in WCG one never expressed anger or that was it for you.  I also grew up where "we don't say that," was a mantra to be obeyed.  Thus one ends up a bit repressed an unable to express one's self when needed for good mental health.

I have had to find counselors through out this post WCG time and actually I had a few in the midst of it all.  It is the sign of a wise person who has a counselor in this nutso world so I don't apologize for it.  I am suspicious of having a "disorder" that briefly came up once in counseling as a possible explanation of feelings, thoughts and behaviors along the way that were  and still are annoying, but I spare you.  It's kinda like when I teach pathology for massage students.  After awhile, if not careful, one begins to feel they have all the symptoms of all those diseases!!!  So I'll do some homework on the disorder as it helps me but try not to buy into it too much.  I have to say, I do have most of the symptoms so it can be a bit of a relief to at least know I didn't invent it.

Thank you for your support.  I only wish to share so that we see the actions and reactions are normal for such life experiences as losing faith or at least having to move on to better perspectives.  Most do, some struggle and a few have been lost in the shuffle along the way.

Be kind to each other.  Be patient with yourself and remember...."How do we know the experience we are having is the experience we are supposed to be having? ........Because you are having it!"  .....or so they say.
Amen