Lil'Joel Throws Another Tantrum

Poor misunderstood Joel Meeker.  Poor little guy can't get any respect! First he is booted from UCG and now people accuse him of deception.  Joel is having to defend his self-righteous actions yet again.  While he spends the month traveling around Africa he has sent out a missive detailing his "righteous" actions.  I feel sorry for the little guy. 

Hello again friends,

Several people have asked follow-up question about my original letter explaining why I decided I could no longer continue in the United Church of God. Some of my reasons have been challenged, and I have been asked to give further evidence of what I stated.

I will attempt to sum up the challenges and the requests for further information I have received and respond to them in this letter. If I fail to respond to these requests to the satisfaction of those making them I apologize in advance, this is a good faith effort. I don’t intend to release any more public statements on these issues, I’m not interested in an endless public debate, but people are welcome to contact me privately about any of them.

First a word about the originator of most of the challenges below, a friend of mine named Tom Robinson. Tom is a very committed Christian and an intelligent and talented writer whom I have known and respected for many years. He is also a logical and deep thinker and a good, sharp debater. At the same time, Tom is not an elder and so has not had direct access to or been involved in most, if any, of the key issues involved in the breakup of UCG. Tom works in the media department directly under a Council member who is a trusted friend of his, and who had been intimately involved in many of the problems that have broken trust in UCG. I believe Tom is being fair according to what he has been told by people he trusts. But I reject much of what he has been told. Having been personally involved in many of the matters raised, I know very certainly that Tom has been given incomplete and twisted information, when it was not simply false.

Tom kindly informed me in an e-mail about the message he was sending out in response to my first letter. When I responded to his e-mail and gave further evidence he had requested, he wrote back, indicating that he understood that his paper was based on indirect and possibly incomplete information that was at least at times difficult to accurately interpret. He wrote in part:

“I think that I still don't have enough of the context to be able to ascertain just what particular facts indicate--and certainly most people in the Church don't. In other cases, you've raised serious issues that need to be clarified in the light of day. I will try to find out the truth on these matters--though I suspect I will probably still be unable to.”

This is recognition that in his position it’s difficult if not impossible to understand everything that’s gone on, and he apparently believes he probably won’t be able to do so fully in the future. That is a very honest admission of the kind I would expect from Tom. He has only second or third-hand information, and is basing his questions or conclusions either on statements of mine for which he doesn’t have all the background or on what others have told him, and some of those “others” are far from unbiased, in fact they are at the very heart of the problems of unethical behavior and misrepresentation of facts. Conclusions can only be as good as the information on which they are based.

Also the challenges to my letter came out on a Friday before the Sunday morning on which I left for a month-long pastoral trip to Africa, a trip in which I am still engaged. On these trips I’m busy from morning to night, and it has therefore taken a bit of time for me to prepare this response. The time taken should not be construed as evidence, as some have claimed, that I was stymied and had no answers to give.

1. Challenge: I and others only provided our opinions; therefore there are not 2 or 3 witnesses as required in 1 Timothy 5:19 to receive an accusation against an elder.

2. Challenge: “Testimony” has been heard that I attempted to break the French association away from UCG; I was not simply being “open” with them, as I claimed. I verbally proposed an amendment to the French association that would have removed the stipulation that the president of UCG France be an elder in good standing of UCG ia. I told Dennis Luker that the elder in France who reported this had misunderstood, therefore I was practicing subterfuge. I called a meeting, asking for a vote to dissolve the French association so I could “take the church assets with me”, and that I would suggest an alternate affiliation.

3. Challenge: When I have been asked about specific examples of wrong-doing on the part of the Council, I have been speechless and unable to answer, which gives the impression I don’t have any real evidence. The three documents (What are the real issues?, What really happened in Latin America? and What were the Real Efforts at Reconciliation?) don’t really contain any proof of any wrong-doing. 

4. Challenge: I have not given any specifics of how Council members broke ethical laws or God’s law. Even if there were such specifics, a few examples of bad behavior are not sufficient reason to “split the church.”

5. Challenge: I implied there was a specific list of evidence of wrong doing had been presented to the Council. If that’s so, where is it? The Council has the right to interpret the Bylaws, so we need to just accept their interpretation of what they did.

6. Challenge: I stated that the Rules of Association have been completely junked. Where’s the proof? "

7. Challenge: I stated that we don’t have a government of men directly under God, but in reality we do. Mr. Armstrong as pastor General didn’t have unlimited authority, and the Council doesn’t either. I wrongly claimed that Dennis Luker equated respectful dissent with rebellion against God.

8. Challenge: I stated that the current Council members worked against former GCE and Council decisions and criticized them, but they now consider that rebellion. But really they never criticized former Council members other than privately. The process on the vote to move to Texas was based on the dissemination of “wrong information” anyway so trying to overturn it was OK.

9. Challenge: I claim that checks and balances were not respected, but they don’t have to be respected. Checks and balances work on their own and need no help. There is an Elder Expulsion Appeal Committee (EEAC) to overrule wrong expulsions. The General Conference of Elders could have removed Council members next May; everyone should have waited until then. Some men refused to follow our appeal process out to its end, so it’s their own fault for leaving.

10. Challenge: I said the Council mislead people (lied) about the Alternative Internet Forum after its investigation. But why would they even investigate at all if they were guilty? It was shut down before it could affect the voting anyway. I said they violated the 9th commandment because they gave the impressions of impartiality, but no wrong behavior was ever proven about the alternative forum. On the other hand Leon Walker did try to affect voting with his e-mail to Latin American Elders, and he also must have lied because he said in one place he answered to the president and at another time we said he never answered to the president. I also told someone “I can’t defend Leon Walker’s behavior” implying I knew he did something wrong.

11. Challenge: I knowingly leaked confidential information taken from a Council retreat about Paul Kieffer running his LIFE internet forum. My punishment was ridiculous but it was worked out by Clyde Kilough to save my employment. It was OK for the Council not to lift my punishment as promised because I was unrepentant and still maintained I was right to make the information public

12. Challenge: I said the Council was lying about Leon Walker and that it was the spirit of murder to try to destroy his reputation, but 1 Timothy 5:20 says if an elder sins, he is to be corrected before all, so the 30+ pages written about Mr. Walker were perfectly Christian.

13. Challenge: I said the Council took direct action against the members and ministry in Latin America, but really the Council and administration didn’t exclude anyone except for the cases forced on them by Mr. Walker and other ministers who wouldn’t even talk with UCG unless Mr. Walker were reinstated.

14. Challenge: I mischaracterized what happened to Jack Hendren, therefore I lied. He was never told he had to support the Council in what they had done to Mr. Walker. Actually he told the administration he no longer recognized their spiritual authority, so that’s why they fired him and were right to do so.

15. Challenge: The white papers never claimed to be official positions of UCG. The paper never said that the family didn’t violate the Sabbath by having their employees work on the Sabbath. No doctrinal review was really necessary since they were only letters, so it’s wrong to say any policy was violated by bypassing the doctrine committee 

16. Challenge: The fasting paper did not substantially change our teaching on fasting; therefore I was wrong to say it did.

17. Challenge: I misrepresented what happened to Larry Salyer by leaving out “important information,” therefore I lied. Mr. Salyer really did wrong things and it’s no surprise he was fired; nothing abusive happened.

18. Challenge: I claim the Council excluded some of its members from discussions. What are the details and where’s the proof? 

19. Challenge: I said it was wrong for the Council to withdraw the resolution to create a governance review task force put forward by all three officers. But it was really an “end-run” around Council authority. It probably also violated the Bylaws, and the Church lawyer and one outside lawyer said so. So nothing wrong really happened.

20. Challenge: I said there have been violations of God’s law and man’s law. Where is the list of these violations? The three documents (What are the real issues?, What really happened in Latin America? and What were the Real Efforts at Reconciliation?) don’t really contain any proof of wrong-doing in them.

21. Challenge: I concluded the present Council and administration are practicing lawlessness. This is “outrageous”; I have not given any proof of that. Eight men on the Council would never participate together in lies and sinful behavior.

You can read his responses here: Meeker Letter 1 and here Meeker Letter 2

              

When you read Lil' Joel's latest screed you will get to see the great dance he does to get around the accusations.  Joel seems to think he is with no fault and was one of the greatest assets UCG ever had.  Ho hum. 

Bill Swanson Forced Out of UCG

How Finding 'Grace' Sent Malm Into Fits of Rage Today

Interesting things have been going on over on James Malm's 'Glowering Darkness' blog today.  He seems to be going into meltdown mode.  . He is posting things that are getting crazier and crazier every day.  Conspiracy theories, demons, Russian witches, Judaizing, UCG accusations, and theological ignorant ramblings.The entire world is a conspiracy and a tool of Satan to keep us from keeping the law and doing 'works.'


Malm is going ballistic over Bible translations that he claims are 'new age' and are products of demonism inspired by Russian witch Madam Blavatski.  Malm says Thomas Edison was one of Madam Blavatski's acolytes and got many of his inventions from demons.   Since Satan is an angel of light, he inspired Edison to create the light bulb........ He also claims Hitler was one of her acolytes as well as Henry Ford.


Malm says President Roosevelt never made a decision without first consulting spirits in seances and that Chruchilll was a druid who worked with demons. And that the Anglo Saxon world is rotting away because of demons, Theosophy and Madam Blavatski.


So what stirred up this conspiracy theory lunacy?  It was something that you would never have guessed.


An ex-UCG member who spent time studing his bible without any HWA, UCG, related booklets and articles and discovered GRACE!  That simple little word that turns rabid Armstrongite's into frothing at the mouth rage!


If you believe in God's grace you are a damnable heretic committing all kinds of  wantonness because being grace filled means you are an unrepentant, sodomizing, adulterous sinner.  Oy!  The lies Armstrongites love to tell in order to keep people enslaved to the law!

This is the false religion of license to sin, through the grace of God; which was prophesied to come in the last days.  This denies Christ even though it purports to emphasize Christ.

This false permissive “love” removes the AUTHORITY of Jesus Christ and the need to recognize that authority and to obey him and his Father.  This deceitful insidious evil, preempts obedience by producing the attitude that it really does not matter because we shall all be forgiven anyway.  The law is then  pictured as something Pharisaical and an unnecessary heavy burden; when in fact the law delivers us from the burden of sin.

Here is what set Malm off the deep end today: Grace may be entering the UCG (FINALLY!!!!)

This is what happened in the WCG with the Tkach era and it is what is now happening in the UCG.  In May there will be another Conference and election: WATCH the direction that is taken after that.  The fruits should become clear by the fall Feast.

I received a message from a man in the UCG, who is now taking a sabbatical to write a book on Law and Grace in preparation for the coming changes. His Blog is an excellent placce to see the subtlty of the new take on the Covenants, and Law and Grace; that are slowly being inserted into the UCG.

Michael Mynard’s Blog  will put right before  your eyes in a  nutshell; what will be done subtly over many months in the UCG. His web site is now under construction.  By all means look through this Blog and its pages to see the subtle errors. See how he says that the sons of the King are “above the law” subtly twisting a scripture on the temple tax to somehow include all the law.  Be sure to notice how many “New Age” quotes and translations he uses.

Read through this Blog and then take a listen to the New Covenant series of audios by Robin Webber.  Look for the subtlities, the inferences, the allusions and the little twists, as he uses a six or seven part series to put over the new UCG agenda and bury it in a multitude of words.  “Church family is to love one another; we obey God because we love him and for no other reason because we no longer have to obey,

Double speak to confuse and distract as the subliminal message of “love trumps law” is entrenched in this phsycologiocal warfare of the spirit. Teaching us that we should just wink at and tolerate sin; and compromise with God’s law anytime the going gets difficult.

Teaching that “love” is the “easy way” and that when the going gets tough we should just push the “easy butten” and compromise with God’s law because he is love and will understand and forgive.

One reader who mistakenly thinks Malm is endorsing Michael Maynard's blog sends Malm into meltdown with his response.  Careful Bro!  You are going to pop a blood vessel!

I AM NOT ENDORSING HIS BLOG! I AM PRESENTING IT AS AN EXAMPLE OF THE EVIL THAT WOULD BE THE ULTIMATE RESULT OF THIS “LOVE TRUMPS LAW” GARBAGE; SLOWLY BEING SEEPED INTO UCG.
Michael’s blog is the anithesis of sound doctrione and true reliogion; his positions are an abomination and utterly disgusting to me!!! James

Malm also has this to say about "'love is the fulfillment of the law' hype"

It destroys faith and without faith we cannot please God. It also destroys “works” and there can be no faith without works for only the “doers of the law will be justified”. A terrible and most subtle evil is seeping into the organization. The whole concept that UCG is now following is to focus people inward at serving each other and loving each other and the organization. The problem is that the focus is being changed from God to US; the focus is being changed from serving God and achieving unity through our unity with God to unity by and through ourselves

Michael's blog is here The True Doctrine of Christ
and here  Unraveling Armstrong's Doctrinal Errors
Here are some interesting quotes from Maynard's blog that I am SURE that set Malm off today:

I told  Dave Treybig, the Tampa United Church of God's former pastor, by email this past July, I was taking a sabbatical to write a book on a biblical topic. My topic had to do with investigating the UCG’s doctrines that teach a blend of Old Testament Laws including Holy Days, Tithing, and Circumcision, with New Testament theology that can never be fully reconciled from scripture.  This area of UCG theology has always caused me, and many others I know, internal conflict because it obviously contradicted the new testament aspect of Salvation through Grace.  This caused me to attempt to ignore this conflict between Bible truth and  UCG (Armstrong) doctrine. But sooner or later I knew I would be forced to face this seeming “paradox.” On what level I did not know until now.

The general membership of the UCG and other churches that adhere to Armstrongism  know that  observing all of the Old Testament "annual sabbaths" or holy days is a doctrinal requirement for church members. Further it is reasoned that is  the only way the church could fully understand God’s plan of salvation. However based upon the writings of the Apostle Paul, this doctrine is clearly anything but Christian and not supported by any New Testament scripture. The first era Church of God never observed these days. Not one instance of observing the Feast pf Tabernacles, or other Feast Day Observance is recorded after the first Pentecost where the Holy Spirit was given thus beginning the New Covenant Church of Christ.

Salvation  is offered by God by Faith through Grace alone,  the Gentiles knew nothing about the Laws of Moses. They were never bound to observe the law of Moses by the apostles of Christ. 

 

 There was no salvation, no eternal life obtainable under the Old Covenant.

According to All  New Testament Teachings          ..especially those of Paul...Herbert W. Armstrong taught a theology that CUT HIS DISCIPLES OFF FROM CHRIST and LEFT THEM FALLEN FROM GRACE! CUT OFF FROM SALVATION! 

RIGHT NOW, ALL WHO FOLLOW

ARMSTRONGISM ARE LOST!

(as Paul writes in Galatians 5)

FOR INSTANCE, BY KEEPING THE FEAST OF TABERNACLES THIS YEAR YOU HAVE CAUSED THE LOSS OF YOUR SALVATION!

Michael Maynard has discovered many of the things a lot  of us discovered years ago.   Being free from Armstrongism is such a great thing!

UCG Ghana Resigns En Masse

A Lesson for the Churches of God

A Lesson for the Churches of God

(and all humans)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10084L3Pqsc

Was there ever a time in your past when you wondered what would be going on in the year 2011?  If you speculating as someone then immersed in the 50's or 60's or 70's it would have seemed like a million years away.  If you were a member of the Worldwide Church of God, and could know, the following truths now revealed by then would be as follows.

Surely by then...Jesus will have returned

The Kingdom will be here

I'd be ruling over others  (this one never appealed to me. I wanted to go fishing and be left alone for a few thousand years)

The deaf would hear, the blind would see and the lame man leap as a hart

The Lion and the Lamb would be best buddies

Everyone would going to the Feast and I mean everybody....or else.

Sermons would be given by the real Apostles when God and Jesus were away on business

We would be proven to have been right about everything

Well, maybe not Mr. Waterhouse.....

However and Actually...................................

Jesus did not return

The world grinds on

Herbert Armstrong would be dead for 25 years

Garner Ted Armstrong would be dead

Hermann Hoeh would be dead

Dean Blackwell would be dead

Dibar Apartian would be dead

Stan Radar would be dead

Gerald Waterhouse would be dead

All the youthful Evangelists and ministers would be very old

Your local church will be gone

Ambassador would be gone

Ambassador would be sold to Evangelical Sunday keeping, Christmas Keeping, Easter Celebrating Pagans

The Worldwide Church of God would be keeping Sunday, Christmas, Easter and wallowing in the mysteries of the Trinity

The Worldwide Church of God would have broken up into 700 splinter and sliver churches each being the true one. 

Mr. and Mrs. Ron Weinland would be the Two Witnesses

Twenty one other men would also be the Two Witnesses

Dave Pack would be the only true Apostle heading the only true remnant of the only true church.

Gerald Flurry will have recreated a hologram of Ambassador College and continue to be the reincarnation of HWA, but Dave Pack would be upset about that wanting his own hologram of HWA, WCG and Ambassador College

You would still be sending it in to someone if still unconscious. 

The United Church of God would divide again and again.

The Brotherly Love Church of God will forbid you to talk to your brothers unless they belong to said church.  This is commonly known as Influrryating.

The Living Church of God is dying.

60 years later we'll still be waiting "3-5, no more than 10-15, 20 tops years to go brethren, and I mean it."  

The Big Sandy Egrets will have flown to Oklahoma along with HWA's prayer rock

Few will have ever heard of the Plain Truth

Few will have heard of The Philadelphia  Trumpet

Few will have heard about the Grace Whatever Church of God, formerly known as Prince

Whew, and there is a whole lot more where that all comes from.  

Life, in all it's constructs, hopes, dreams, speculations, mess ups and insanity is one big Mandala.  Crafted over time only to be brushed away to return to it's source as if it never existed.   Or rather, it takes on a different form, rejoins the universe and goes on to be part of the much bigger picture.

And now we know....

DenniscDiehl@aol.com  

Poor Lil' Joel Meeker Get's Raked Over The Coals For Deception

Lil' Joel has been called on the  carpet for his recent letter where he gave his reasons for leaving UCG.  It looks like Lil' Joel was not as forthright in his letter as he claimed:

Joel was fired not for “being open with members of the French association, and warning them...of remaining with UCG” (the latter of which is problematic enough), but over evidence that he was actively attempting to break the French association away from UCGIA. I had at first heard this from only one person on the Council but was able to hear further testimony on the matter at the UCG ministerial conference. At the suggestion of other Council and administration members, I spoke to people who were directly involved with the situation in France, who gave me a detailed account of recent events. In early December 2010, Joel was still a UCGIA employee and president of EDU-France (i.e., the UCG in France). I was told that at this time he met with with French association members and verbally proposed an amendment to the Rules of Association of EDU-France to remove the requirement that its president be a minister in good standing of UCGIA. This, he is reported to have told them, was to allow him to remain their pastor even if he was no longer employed by UCGIA. The retired elder in France then sent an email to Joel stating that such action would in effect be hijacking EDU-France and that he would have to ask UCGIA president Denny Luker for help in the matter—which he eventually did on December 21. (Such action would have left those in France who wanted to remain with UCGIA cut off without an official organization there, as it’s a hard and lengthy process to incorporate as a religious organization in France due to strict laws against foreign “sects.”) Denny then contacted Joel about the matter, but, as Denny stated to me, Joel said the French elder “misunderstood.” This was apparently subterfuge, because at this time or immediately afterward, again while still a UCGIA employee, Joel wrote a letter to French association members on December 23 seeking a vote to dissolve the French association! He stated that the French work should not go independent, so he would suggest alternate affiliation. Thus, Joel was clearly working against UCGIA while a UCGIA employee. He even stated within the letter that when this action became known he would likely be fired. And he was—after this letter was translated and sent to the UCG administration and to Larry Darden, the church's attorney. I spoke with Larry, and he verified this as well. And by email Larry confirmed to me: “Joel sent the letter to UCG members in France (and other francophone countries served by France) while he was still employed by UCGIA (he was discharged and credentials revoked AFTER the COE saw his letter of December 23). The letter was a ‘smoking gun’ with respect to his intention to leave UCG and try to engineer taking the assets of EDU-France with him using an ‘Extraordinary’ meeting of member[s] of that entity.” I have a copy of the Dec. 23 letter in French and the translation into English and am able to provide these as evidence of what took place. Again, in light of this letter, it is utterly stunning that Joel would merely say he was fired for being open with the French association and giving them a warning. He obviously did a lot more than that.

Read more of the letter here: Lil'Joel

UCG Tonga Resignation

COGaWA (WCG2)Premiers It's Website

WCG2/Church of God a Worldwide Association has its new official web site up.  You can follow along as little Joel talks about his superfantastic trips around the world and Ralphie talks about single life.  Such fun!

 

Church of God a Worldwide Association 

UCG: Everything is all Daffodils and Cute Bunnies

Reading UCG Realtime you would think UCG has had only a minor little hiccup in their organizational structure and everything is phantasmagorically fabulous!  Pretty daffodils and bunnies playing in the fields of the Lord....

Here is their list of hiccups laid out:

For your information, in early 2010, there were 492 credentialed elders in the United Church of God, an International Association. Of that number, 323 (66%) are still with UCG. Of that total, we have retained 62 of 131 salaried field ministers (47%); 15 of 20 elders salaried by the home office (75%); 9 of 14 retired elders (64%); and 237 of 327 non-salaried elders (73%).
In the United States, we have retained 250 of 382 elders (65%). Of that total, we have retained 46 of 100 salaried field ministers and 180 of 248 non-salaried elders (73%).

Peter Hawkins UK Resignation Letter UPDATED 2/10

Monday 7th February, 2011

To UCGia President and Chairman

Re: Resignation from the ministry of United Church of God

Dear Denny and Melvin,

With regret Sonja and I are resigning our part in the ministry of United Church of God as of today. We have appreciated the opportunities to help others come to know the true Gospel and help them towards salvation through God’s grace and the life of Jesus Christ living in true Christians.

This separation from UCG has come about because since sending Denny an email in July 2010 requesting further efforts at reconciliation, we have not only seen no progress but a deterioration in relationships between the Council, the Administration, and a large body of elders and members.

The issues causing this rift have been misrepresented in Q&A sessions to members that we have heard. What was needed was a humble response to private letters of concern last year. Well over the 25% of elders also signed a petition to the Council to reconsider what had happened in Latin America, and instead of being allowed the opportunity to have the matter discussed, threats of expulsion for causing division were issued.

Subsequent events in firing or forcing resignations from faithful and long-standing ministers are well documented. Emotive derogatory descriptions have been used in letters to the membership, on the Elders’ Forum and in other media. And the straw men of Texas and desire for power keep being brought up when they are not the issues.

A forced exit of more than a third of the UCG elders in December 2010 came about because the Council would not allow ministers to question the decisions. Some who would not support the Council without reservation were threatened with expulsion. Yet the member letter of 23 December states “It is being said that we demand personal loyalty to men. This is not true—as we would not even sign a document that required that.”

Perhaps the GCE in May 2011 would have been completely different if the spirit of humility had reigned. After all, what harm would have been done by a review of the events and decisions of 2010 with all parties involved?

Sonja and I respect the offices you have been given, but we cannot walk together any more (Amos 3:3). We pray we will be together in God’s Kingdom in different circumstances after God has purified us all.

Sincerely,

Peter Hawkins

Sonja Hawkins      

======================

With Hawkins resignation the UK and Ireland are left with only 5 ordained elders for both countries.

Latest UCG Resignation Februrary 9, 2011 UPDATED 2/10

With Hawkins resignation the UK and Ireland are left with only 

5 ordained elders for both countries.

Pious Conviction With Marginal Information is NOT Your Friend

I have been watching and reading about the current and ongoing drama in the United Church of God.  Many if not most of the ministers still involved on one side or the other are people I knew as kids thinking we had discovered the one final truth of the Bible and the organization that represented it.  I guess we've all learned a lot since then.

Some believe that if we just get back to what Herbert Armstrong taught, all will be well.  Others, called progressives may realize that all the truth there is was not all the truth Herbert Armstrong had.  Even the word "truth" is somewhat suspect as the vast majority, dare I say all COG ministers, including myself, were not well trained in the history of the Bible, its true origins, the politics involved and its rather errrant condition. I shake my head in wonder when I hear grown "theologians" base their views or examples on what any well trained and taught minister would know were mere mythologies of the day.   

When a grown man, who claims to know his Bible and world history, uses the accounts in Genesis 1-11 as that which "really , really happened,"  it is rather discouraging.  Such a man has no genuine credibility in what he understands as "truth."  Don't get me wrong.  There were genuine reasons for the transmission of the Adam and Eve story and the Fall.  There was a genuine reason for the story of Cain and Able or for the flood mythologies, but to take them literally is laughable in the world of theological , archaelogical and scientific understanding.

For beginners I would ask any COG minister to lay out the simple order of the New Testament.  If you begin with "Matthew...Mark..."  Ehhhhht'..., thank you for playing. Sit down.

 If you think the four Gospels were written by eyewitnesses to Jesus or that the names on the books are the real authors....ehhhhhht...please sit down. 

 If you think there is a harmony in the four Gospels, please sit down. 

 If you think Paul wrote after the Gospels and the literal Jesus came before the Cosmic Christ of Paul, please sit down.  

If you believe the Jesus of the Gospels is the same Christ of Paul or the same Jesus of Revelation, please sit down.  

If you think the birth narratives of Jesus match and are what really really happened, please sit down.  

If you think all the books attributed to Paul were actually written by Paul, please sit down.

  If you think Revelation is a book of prophecy for us today, please sit down.

  If you think Peter and Paul were friends or that James was not refuting Paul's rambling in Romans, please sit down. 

  If you believe that Paul really studied under Gamaliel or knew how to think like a Pharisee, please sit down. 

 If you believe the Gospel accounts of the resurrection of Jesus are harmonious and reflect different ways of looking at the same alleged event, please sit down.

  If you think Paul could not possibly have been struggling with grievous sins or shortcomings which forced him to conclude he could not obey and chose rather to rally around grace, grace grace, please sit down. 

 If you think Jesus said he was God in the flesh, please sit down. 

 If you believe the NT teaches the malarky taught by the new and improved WCG, please sit down. 

 If you believe that Jesus and atonement by execution is the only way or that without the shedding of blood, there is no forgiveness of sins, please sit down. 

 If you understand that in the OT, simple "oh I'm sorry" to God was ok, give yourself ten points. 

 

If you believe humans were made male and female, one of mud and one of rib, please sit down.

If you believe penguins, polar bears and kangaroos were on the Ark, please sit down.

If you haven't done the hard work in study or actual field experience as to human origins, paleontology and Cosmology, please sit down

Or at least shut up.....

 If you only got ten points, resign and go to school before you declare to those under your supervision what they are supposed to be or do and not be or do.  

We've come a long way baby...unless you are an under trained and over confident COG minister.  With all due respect, you simply don't know what you are talking about.  In the small world, yeah very small world of the COG splinters and slivers, you may seem to be somewhat, as Paul noted of Peter, James and John, but "I learned nothing from them..." as Paul also admitted.  One only need examine the real politic behind the rivalries between Peter, James, John and Paul to understand this current distress is a very very old story.

There never was one true church of God in all of history. There is not one portrayed in the pages of your New Testament.  The message of the Gospels and the Gospel Jesus is NOT the same message of the Apostle Paul.  

So while you all fight over government...is there no end of that topic?  While you feel you have to pick a side as to which uninformed organization and clergy to follow or very carefully sift through all the arguments and very carefully be absolutely you make the right God following choice, please remember this...

Pious conviction with marginal information is not your friend.  If you would like a good explanation of what that means then please continue here...

Pious Conviction With Marginal Information is NOT Your Friend

 

Warm regards on these hot topics...

Dennis Diehl...formerly called "Mr."  :)

DenniscDiehl@aol.com 
 

Ralph Levy Tells His Tale of UCG Termination

Circumstances of My Termination from Ambassador Bible Center

Since I have been asked on a number of occasions how events led up to my no longer being employed as an instructor at Ambassador Bible Center, I thought it might be helpful to writ...e a short note on the subject.

In the latter part of the year 2010 it was becoming obvious that a major crisis was erupting in the United Church of God, IA. Disagreement over the secret forum, the proposed/rescinded move to Texas, the proposal of a study group to review the functioning of our governmental system, the removal of virtually all of the Cincinnati administration, beginning in late June, the removal of the regional pastors, and the handling of the Latin American situation, all were leading up to very serious difficulties. Along with others I detested the idea of a split, but was coming to see it might be unavoidable.

During all of this I continued to teach my ABC classes, making virtually no reference to the Church situation in the classroom. Aside from occasional requests to the students that they pray about it, I said nothing from behind the classroom microphone. However, in private I did discuss my views and concerns. I was concerned about what I perceived to be a general move to politicization of the Church, manifested in a long list of matters badly handled by the Council of Elders (or, more accurately, by the CoE majority – how sad that term even has to be used!). The word “Church” and the word “politics” should never be mentioned in the same sentence; yet that was precisely what we had come to.

When Mr. Dennis Luker came into office in early July he asked me to be involved in attempts to resolve the Latin American impasse, acting as a communications conduit for him. I also gave my advice and input on a number of occasions from July till shortly after the Feast. I have known Mr. Luker for many years, and, though I didn’t hold out much hope, felt it was worth doing what I was able to try to bring about some sort of reconciliation for Latin America.

Once the Feast had come and gone and there was no direct invitation to the Latin American pastors to come in to Cincinnati to express themselves and to attempt to resolve the crisis in cooperation with the administration and Council, it was becoming clear there was now little hope. It was and is my view that, in order to speak of genuine attempts at reconciliation, it would have been necessary for all concerned to come and confer, with everything out on the table, and to seek a solution acceptable to all. After all, we had said multiple times “United works by consensus,” though sadly there was no such consensus concerning Latin America.

By early December, we were hearing claims from the Council that there had been “multiple attempts at reconciliation for Latin America.” Much as I dislike to baldly contradict other ministers, that assertion is simply untrue. I was present in the meetings with Mr. Leon Walker on August 11, and with Eduardo Hernandez on September 14. Neither of these was a real attempt at reconciliation. Had there been meaningful follow-up, it would have been possible to speak of attempts at reconciliation; yet there was no such.

About December 10 I let my emotions run away for perhaps the first time. I sat at my computer, and posted the following words on my Facebook wall: “Don’t be deceived. There was no attempt at reconciliation for Latin America.” I stand by those words, which were up for two minutes, before I thought better of it and removed the post. In those two minutes, someone read and took exception to the post and it found its way to the Church president.

On December 13, in the first of three meetings involving Mr. Luker, Mr. Gary Antion and me, I was called in. Mr. Luker read the Facebook post to me and I confirmed I had indeed written it. I also told him it was up for only two minutes. I then asked if he wanted me to resign. He did not demand my resignation at that point. I then raised the question of when my departure from ABC should be: January (semester break) or May (graduation). Mr. Luker thanked me for bringing it up, and told me he would put the question to the management team and get back with me.

The second meeting took place on December 21, again involving Mr. Luker, Mr. Antion and me. It was a short meeting in which he told me the management team had decided I would be leaving the employ of UCGIA in January and not in May. I accepted the decision, and that night wrote a letter acknowledging the decision taken, and resigning as an elder in UCGIA (though not as a minister of Jesus Christ in the Body of Christ). I turned in my letter the following morning, and then began to make the decision known.

Once the students heard of my impending removal, two of the student leaders sought an audience with Mr. Luker, and on December 23 (I think that date is correct) spent some time with him (I was told their meeting lasted some 75 minutes), requesting I might be permitted to remain till graduation in May. Subsequent to this I was informed the decision was to be “reviewed,” and that Mr. Luker wished to talk to me at the Winter Family Weekend in Louisville, Kentucky.

The Louisville event was busy so we never got to talk there. Once back in the office, in the last days of December, I requested another meeting to settle the matter. For everyone’s sake, not least the students’, it had to be decided once and for all.

The third meeting took place on the last day of the year, December 31. Mr. Luker asked me what I thought. For not the first time, I stated I was willing to remain with ABC to teach the students till graduation in May. I would not use the classroom mike to discuss Church matters, but people would know privately where I stood. Mr. Luker then informed me the question had gone to the Council of Elders and they had decided my employment was to end on January 14, 2011.

So, was I fired or did I resign? Since I offered more than once to remain till May, and those offers were declined, I believe it more accurate to say I was fired from my teaching position at Ambassador Bible Center, after 11 ½ years.

On a more positive note, I am certain that education programs in God’s Church have not come to an end. As events unfold, we will see new (and, hopefully, better) education programs for the Church of God. Let’s all keep education in the Church on our prayer list. The best is yet to come!

Ralph Levy

Florida Drops Lawsuit Against COGaWA, Attorneys Going After Complaintant

Someone is going to be in deep doo doo!

From Abigal Cartwright's blog:

Update Regarding False Allegations Against CGWA. Today, the appropriate agency of the State of Florida contacted legal counsel for the Church in writing, and following their review of the Church's February 1, 2011 response to the fraudulent consumer complaint, the matter has been promptly closed, in favor of the Church. The Church will continue with its investigation to identify the harasser and will take appropriate steps to address any and all acts of harassment and defamation. The Church will also cooperate with any investigations by law enforcement to identify the suspect.

UCG Members Still Not Happy With HQ

UCG is currently in the process of holding a private meeting for it's remaining elders and ministers.  They are determining their future as a church and what their focus will be.  UCG members around the country are tired of not getting answers from UCG brass.  Will they be forthright in their answers after the conference?  COG history says ....no.

A sampling of complaints about the non-information flow follows:

After sunset last sabbath, Aaron Dean headed up a Q&A session after services in our hall @ Big Sandy, TX. We were not very many in number, but some in attendance were there just for the session, not the services, so more arrived for the Q&A than actually attended the worship service. And with few exceptions, most of us there had been to COGWA's services earlier that day, but wanted very much to hear from both sides, so we attended both. I hold Mr. Dean in the highest regard, which made it all the more difficult to listen to how the questions were circumvented time and again. He did say vehemently that admin's stance on the sabbath has not changed, but little else was responded to directly. It was quite frustrating for members to ask questions and get lengthy responses on unrelated topics. The questions went on for hours, so people trickled out throughout the meeting feeling no better educated about what was happening than when we arrived. He kept reassuring us that he just wanted to never discuss this subject again (or in the first place) and that we as members should never have been privy to any of it anyhow. I truly do not know if he was just reluctant to answer questions himself or if he was told to talk a lot but not SAY anything. The meeting left so very much to be desired, unfortunately. Aaron Dean seemed to be genuinely heartbroken about all that's transpired and my heart goes out to him as it does for the brethren in our congregation, but hedging the questions was decidedly poor form.At a time when we desperately need leaders to fulfill living transparently, so to speak, we apparently have none capable or willing to do this. And yes, I did say this at the meeting with Aaron Dean. We were quite disillusioned about the lack of information we were getting, which makes it difficult to sift through this mess we are all in now. And for what it's worth, I believe neither camp is blameless and scrupulously sinless in their words and actions. I have chosen (and admitted freely at the meeting) that I refuse to choose a side as God's people, MY people, are in both organizations as of this moment. My allegiance is not to a certain minister or a certain organization, but to a God and His called out ones--you know, the ones who are currently picking up the tab yet again for divisions wrought by others. I didn't cause this, you didn't cause this, but still here we all are.
One thing I do hear everyone saying no matter where they are attending is that they all want to 'move forward' now. I pray that we can, even if not collectively anymore. But one thing I know to be true is that we will keep having these same issues as long as we keep doing the same things. My earnest prayer is for peace as the dust settles, and to have discerning eyes as we watch the fruits of new and existing administrations unfold.

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we had a Q&A in Tampa last Sabbath also. We don't yet know who our new minister will be, as the entire paid ministry in Florida left UCG. The circuits will probably need to be reconfigured; however, a minister most likely will need to reside in the state--somewhere. The Home Office simply doesn't have the logistical answers to some of the areas yet, and that may also be the case with Big Sandy (I don't know.) Several in our sister church in St. Pete are indeed attending both services for awhile without repercussions from UCG. It's a good question, though, and one that would be answered and acted upon according to, as you indicated, personal conviction. Many are confused and blindsided by this whole thing and need time to sort it out. They refuse to take sides until doing so. I just spoke with a member this past week who is doing exactly that.

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Not being there I can't of course characterize how things went down. But I have been to q&a's held by Mr. Rhodes and I can tell you that we are never going to hear fully, publicly, the side of the council or of United Church of God.

Why? Because they have taken the stance that it is more important to absorb the abuse then it is to publicly criticize the individuals who have left. They want to leave the door open when and if those who have left decide to come back. They would rather be thought of as being in the wrong than to become a lighting rod for controversy.

Criminal Complaint Filed in Florida Accusing COGaWA UPDATED 2/1/11

Update:  2/1/2011

The attorney for COGaWA has established that the complainant, Sarah Luther is a fake name.  

Here is one of his comments:

As a former prosecutor, I occasionally had the distinction of interviewing delusional individuals such as this who would fabricate patently ridiculous allegations and then ask me to act upon them. Thus, it is no surprise that the Florida Attorney General sent this individual elsewhere when she took her fish story to them. However, I would be surprised indeed to learn that they asked her to present her pitch to your agency and waste its resources.

If someone in UCG egged this person on to do this, the crap is going to hit the fan once more for United!
Read his entire letter here:  COGaWA Swiftly Responds To Accusations

Malm writes on his blog today:

A criminal complaint against four people associated with the recent split of the UCG has been filed by concerned private persons with the:  Division of Consumer Services Florida Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services.  The complaint has since been assigned to a case manager, Ms. Ben Brown, and assigned Case # 1101-03172.  The complaint alleges embezzlement or theft by deception in possible diverting of money sent to UCG HQ over the past 18 months.