Atonement: The notion that Satan’s rebellion caused God to go to “plan B” is purely a figment of Herbert Armstrong's overactive imagination!

Church of God International Affirms HWA’s Understanding of Atonement

 

In his booklet, Pagan Holidays – or God’s Holy Days, Herbert Armstrong insisted that one goat represented Christ and the other goat represented Satan in the ritualistic observance of the Day of Atonement recorded in the sixteenth chapter of Leviticus. Even so, many of Armstrong’s critics have pointed out that the ninth and tenth chapters of the book of Hebrews make plain that the high priest was symbolic of Christ, and that the two goats represented different aspects of the high priest’s work to make atonement for the sins of the people (one providing the blood, and the other representing the removal of our sins – the very things that have separated us from God).

In Herbie’s theology, the assignment of the scapegoat as being representative of Satan was an essential component of a more complex theology elaborated in The Incredible Human Potential and Mystery of the Ages. The premise being that Satan ruined God’s original plan for the angels to inhabit this earth and complete God’s creation which in turn necessitated the creation of man (because angels were supposed to be immortal and indestructible). Moreover, Armstrong reasoned that, because Satan was the ultimate author of human sin, justice demanded that all of our sins be placed on the head of Satan. Thus, Satan would ultimately be sent away by the hand of another angel into the bottomless pit, and we would finally be reconciled to God.

Never mind that Scripture makes plain that it was God’s plan from the very beginning to create humankind, place the earth in their care and make them His children. The notion that Satan’s rebellion caused God to go to “plan B” is purely a figment of Herbie’s overactive imagination! Scripture also refutes the notion that any of the lifeforms which God has created (including angels) have immortal life (Paul tells us that immortality is a God quality). Finally, there are a great many scriptures which suggest that we are all personally responsible for our own sins, and that it is those sins which have alienated us from God.

Nevertheless, in his most recent sermon regarding the meaning of the symbolism surrounding the Day of Atonement, CGI Pastor Wynn Skelton continued to insist that HWA’s understanding of that symbolism was correct! After clearly linking the first goat to Christ’s sacrifice for our sins, he said: 

“The other represents - now, don’t get mad at me <for> this – represents our enemy…it represents the devil…Now I’ve had debates about this and there have been papers in the Church of God International saying that both goats are for Christ…What we officially teach is this: one goat for Christ – one goat for Satan.”

He continues:  

“I am not trying to create division or animosity, but I will point out for those who think that both goats are for Christ then…what would be the difference between the Day of Atonement and Passover?...How in the world are we going to have peace and harmony and at-one-ment if you don’t remove the enemy?” see Atonement by Wynn Skelton

Has Pastor Skelton forgotten what Paul wrote to the saints at Rome? Paul said: “For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.” – Romans 5:10 Hence, it is clear that Paul thought that we were reconciled to God by Christ’s death, and I’m assuming that Satan was still around when Paul penned this! In other words, Satan’s removal wasn’t necessary for that reconciliation to happen. Likewise, Paul wrote to the saints at Corinth that God “hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ.” – II Corinthians 5:18 And, finally, Paul wrote to the Colossians that “having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven. And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight…” – Colossians 1:20-22

For Paul, at least, the presence of Satan the devil represented no obstacle to our reconciliation with God! The fact is that Scripture clearly contradicts Herbert Armstrong’s teachings about the meaning of the Day of Atonement. According to Scripture, Jesus Christ is the vehicle for our salvation – something that Satan plays NO role in whatsoever! Moreover, Scripture makes plain that the ultimate fate of Satan will be just and force him to pay the penalty for his many sins. Ezekiel wrote about him: “Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee. All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.” – Ezekiel 28:18-19 And this is certainly consistent with what we read in the book of Revelation: “And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone…” – Revelation 20:10 And, finally, the context makes plain that this lake of fire is representative of eternal death.

Hence, in officially perpetuating Herbert Armstrong’s errors with regard to the Day of Atonement, the Church of God International makes clear that they have not moved beyond the founder of the movement. In continuing to promulgate an understanding that is clearly flawed, CGI has rendered itself just another irrelevant splinter of a failed theology.

n  Miller Jones/Lonnie Hendrix

Stupid things Dave Pack has said...

from a reader: 

- people's arms and eyes will shrivel by some seance or spell

- a mountain will float out of space and land on Israel and it will be tall enough to reach into space

- Carpenter angel will destroy and rebuild Israel in a day

- all who ever lived in Israel's history will be resurrected in one day

- God's people will have new bodies like christ but it won't be eternal

- These bodies will allow people to walk thru walls, escape mobs, never hunger, never get sick

- Be able to command legions of angels to kill antichrists and evil governments

- Be able to ride chariots pulled by angels and travel at the speed of thought

- demons will come out of the ground and out of space and people will believe it to be an alien invasion.

- lots of death

- lots of resurrections

- mansions of gold where people will abode but will not have to sleep because they are godlike but not yet saved?

- glow or have some sort of permanent resplendence like daniel had and Moses had

- be able to read peoples thoughts

- have global fame and unprecedented knowledge of prophecy 

Dave Pack In Damage Control Mode

 

from the comments:

Dave Pack is looking forward to all the ministers who left RCG over the last 20 years to be put to death, either burned alive or being cut in half with a sword. 

He has been fixated on killing people who leave his group now for at least 2 years. 

The quotes below are taken from a sermon given before Atonement. The comments are pretty clear to me. He associates anyone not “with him” as an antichrist and worthy of death. (They signed their death warrant and orphaned their children, pretty screwed up stuff here) First however their right eye and arm will be crippled. The timeline he gives is just before, or after the Feast. 

Maybe the former RCG ministers can sound off after the Feast to let us know they are ok! 

Quotes from Dave Pack - "A Non Prophecy Sermon"

Dave Pack - (36:32) 

"Here's what he said. Now you're going to have to decide what an antichrist is. We read what John said. Let's see what Christ said about antichrists. "He, that is not with me is against me. And he, that gathers not with me, scatters abroad." If you're not with him [ministers who left] in gathering you're you're against him in scattering. That means you're against Christ. That means you're an antichrist, which means you don't have the Holy spirit. 

That's the definition of an antichrist against Christ. Now, therefore, another Jesus. And none of them will say I'm against Christ. So you're going to have to believe him, not them. Now we have a lot of wonderful faithful ministers and in no way, no way have our faithful ministers been, come into question in my mind. I'm just telling you if a minister leaves, now you need to have the background." 

Dave Pack - (~43:02) 

If you watch some minister, leave the church, that man, you said, well, he was never converted. He has sinned unto death. He signed his death warrant and he's orphaned his children. He will not live! Christ said he burns corrupt trees. And before that, I'm going to tell you exactly when it is. They're going to lose an eye on an arm. A lot of things are clear. It almost becomes its own indicator that we're running out of time. We had a burst of antichrists. It's wonderful because we're not paying thieves anymore. One of them didn't want to go to his feast assignment. He's worried about getting the COVID. And so when we told him, "No, you gotta go to where your feast is." He quit! I wasn't there when he stamped his feet. I just know he did. I know the man. And I know he did. Do not pray for these people. You're supposed to know when somebody sins a sin unto death. I've wrestled for decades and other ministers have too well. How would you know that? Well, if they're scattering against Christ, they're blaspheming, the Holy Spirit, they're Corrupt Trees. They're going to be burned, period. End of story. It's not a mystery. So when you see that don't ever pray for that minister. You're praying for an enemy of God who doesn't have the Holy spirit, who isn't going to repent. Why? Because he's a thief and they only come to steal, murder and destroy or kill and destroy.

Dave Pack - (48:10) 

 

“And there are people leave us and beat us. They begin to beat us. Some of them don't get very far. My Lord delays. His coming ...This is something people who leave us would say, and they beat us and people still don't go. And they begin to smite their fellow servants to eat and drink with the drunken. I've watched them. You never hear the follow up. These guys go out and they literally go back to the world. 

 

...The Lord of that servant will come a day when he's not looking for him in an hour, that he's not aware. They blew off what they were taught here and cut them in two. That's what it says, cut them in two. And they're going to weep and gnashing their teeth. They're going to wait a little while, with one eye and one arm. But that's what it says. They know God's plan. Well, this can't be the dead. The dead aren't doing those things. The dead aren't saying “my Lord delays his coming,” It can’t be Laodicea. They don't know they're blind. They're not looking for Christ. It has to be people who left us and Christ calls them evil, wicked kickoffs, worthless servants. Well, they were only worth they have is that they eventually left and they stopped being paid and people under them aren't anymore.” 

 

Dave Pack - (1:22:25)

Now we could go all the way past the Feast. It seems hard to imagine, but you know, all these verses, he won't tarry won't tarry won't tarry, but wait, wait, wait, wait. And you have a need to be patient. I don't know. Maybe we'll go after the feast. It's gotta be when people are at work. So it won't be during the 10 days of the Feast. But it could be tonight too. Can't be on Atonement. Can't be today. Today's almost over, but terrible, terrible, terrible things are happening.  

It is so convenient that before this sermon, Pack has already began instructing the entire church how to deal with ministers/people who leave. 

 

He says ministers who leave are hoping that "you [the church] are stupid and dumb enough to follow them". 

 

Pack has been heard before by many minister calling the brethren idiots. As a former employee i have sat in staff meetings where he would call us stupid. 

 

RCG is in extreme damage control mode, telling all their members not to read any posts, letters, emails or engage with former members. 

 

He says it's a sin if you do. This is one masterful way to block people from seeing the other side that is not so often spoken about. 

 

He is a very dangerous man who uses the bible so and his eloquence so well to manipulate the scriptures into serving his purpose. 

 

His purpose: cover up the reason 40 plus ministers have left, instruct the membership not to go around perusing on why they left, paint all those ministers as thieves and wolves by telling a select few stories of some actual rotten ministers, and then go on to inform the entire church that Christ is coming at the end of 2020 Feast of Tabernacles. And if not this year then next year. Bait them some more. 

 

Pack is the wolf. But he is using the tactic of telling him members that others are out to get them and their money to shift the very idea that it is in fact him who is stealing their money and treating them like their stupid idiots. 

 

Many people in RCG who sit there are secretly coming to this blog and other sources and communicating more openly with former members and expressing concern with the failed date after date of christ supposed return that Pack keeps changing. 

 

Pack has predicted Christs return over 20 times since the failed elul prophecy in 2013.

Reading the Book of the Law At The Feast. Does God Require It Or Is It A Silly Demand Of Certain Self Appointed COG Leaders?

 

Over the last decade or so, various self-righteously zealous COG splinter cults have made a requirement of their few followers that they read and hear the entire book of the law during the Feast. Now that James Malm's demands have ended up in the grave it is time for the self-appointed and illegitimately ordained Bob Thiel to demand that his followers read the entire Book of Deuteronomy during his sad Feast. Instead of looking forward to the reign of Christ in the world to come and a time of joy, Thiel and certain splinter cults of the church look backwards at the law that was never meant to be a standard for Christians. The laws were a set of rules specific to the Jewish people to set them apart from those around them. It was for them only, not for any other tribe or group of people anywhere on the face of the earth.

The Feast of Tabernacles for 2020 is almost upon us. Services are to begin the evening of October 2nd and continue until the Last Great Day which is October 10th. It is a time we can meet as brethren each Fall as well as learn and exhort one another.

Notice also the following:

10 …”At the end of every seven years, at the appointed time in the year of release, at the Feast of Tabernacles, 11 when all Israel comes to appear before the Lord your God in the place which He chooses, you shall read this law before all Israel in their hearing. 12 Gather the people together, men and women and little ones, and the stranger who is within your gates, that they may hear and that they may learn to fear the Lord your God and carefully observe all the words of this law, 13 and that their children, who have not known it, may hear and learn to fear the Lord your God as long as you live in the land which you cross the Jordan to possess.” (Deuteronomy 31:10-13). 

Notice that this reading of the book of the law was to happen every seven years. Although this has been overlooked by most COG groups, in the CCOG we did this in 2013, and thus are intending to do it seven years later, which is this year, in 2020. ...

Different Sites, Different Recommendations

While ALL CCOG sites need to cover the Book of the Law in 2020, there are different ways this is expected to be done.

Sites with live sermon speaker (USA, Serbia, Africa, and India) are to have sermons that will, by the end of the Feast of Tabernacles, have covered the entire Book of Deuteronomy.

Those sites that do not have sufficient internet connections (such as the Philippines and parts of Africa) should watch the sermon DVDs that were sent a couple of weeks ago. In some cases, those sermons should be translated live into local languages. If the DVDs do not arrive (and they had not arrived in Ethiopia when I last heard), please at least have someone read the entire Book of Deuteronomy in the local language during the Feast of Tabernacles.

Various zealots in COG leadership have turned a once joyous time of the year into a time of drudgery. Is it any wonder why they cannot keep members?

Is How You Dress At The Feast A Salvation Issue?

 

The Feast of Tabernacles is underway for the faithful of the Churches of God. This has turned out to be a difficult year for most COG groups as Satan has actively thwarted some of their plans for certain Feast sites. Numerous sites had to be shut down this year due to COVID. Plus, no chruch members were able to transfer to any foreign country this year. In spite of all of this, many COG members were still looking forward to their annual fall vacation to resorts and interesting locations.

A select few COG groups set certain standards for their members on how to dress at the Feast. Apparently, LCG members still are too stupid or outright rebellious in what they choose to wear to services or at the resorts that they must be reminded AGAIN on what is appropriate to wear. Living Church of God has sent out their commands once again this year for their women to not dress slutty at church by wearing their belly exposing tops. As usual, women get bet up the most, men not so much.

Basic Principles of Dress for Sabbath and Feast Services and Activities
As we prepare to be “lights to the world” at the Feast, it’s good to review some basic principles about our outward decorum and dress. Jesus stated in a parable that some invited to the wedding supper will be turned away because they are not dressed appropriately (Matthew 22:8–14). We have taught for decades that when we come to Church services, we are coming before the God of the universe, and we should dress in the best we have, to show proper respect to God. In most Western cultures, coats, collared shirts, ties, and nice slacks are considered appropriate attire for men on special occasions. Jeans, T-shirts, tennis shoes, or other sportswear are simply not in good taste at special occasions or at Church services. This may vary in tropical climates, yet, in all climates there is a distinction between what is appropriate and what is not. 1 Timothy 2:9–10explains that ladies should dress “in modest apparel, with propriety and moderation.” This does not condone the trendy and immodest apparel that is commonplace for many women in our society today: short, tight, form-fitting dresses, necklines displaying cleavage, bare shoulders, backless dresses, belly-baring tops, etc. We come to services to worship God, not to display our bodies. If women dress in a manner that attracts attention to their bodies, they become a distraction to others from the real reasons for being at services. Our challenge as Christian men and women is to come out of this world (2 Corinthians 6:17) and recapture true values (Matthew 17:11) so we can be lights to a world that has lost its way (Matthew 5:14–15). This is especially true as we gather to celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles—picturing Christ’s glorious reign on earth!

Why does the Living Church of God still treat their members as infants or as being too stupid to know what to wear to services? When Jesus returns he will not give a rats ass about what people are wearing to church. That subject is of no significance to the grand scheme of things and should not be an issue today in the COG.