Saturday, January 21, 2017

Dave Pack Quotables

 "I want to make a statement, if I became deceived, I will never tell you what I'm going to tell you now...I am telling you  if I go off into strange ideas,  misconduct, rebellion, you name it, don't follow me. I want to tell you that now, because if I start doing that I'm gonna try to get you to follow me! I'm gonna come to you and tell you it doesn't apply, it doesn't mean me, no, no, no, no, no, no, it's OK to follow me because ABCD and XY and Z. Do you understand what I'm saying? Listen to me now, when I tell you don't follow me if I go off into weird ideas, or if I get off into other things that are total absolutely unscriptural conduct,because if I do I'm gonna paint it with a different face and try to get you to follow me. Do you understand what I'm saying brethren? Please remember that, because I promise you that if I become deceived, I'll forget it, and I'll want you to forget it...And  I hope you'll remember it well enough to quote it right back to me...But I'll tell you what, I'm not going anywhere."
David C Pack

December 12, 1998

"Too late...."


"Let me just summarize it. From the time I was a little boy, under Randall and Jane Pack, and believe me, if you knew them, they were powerful in logic, debate, and analysis. My mother was the Debate Champion for years, brilliant woman. My father was a very intelligent, master salesman. And they taught me the rules of logic and analysis. From the time I was a small boy, my mother would make me look words up. So, uh, understanding the nature of words from the time I was little— very little— when I... , we had about a six or eight-inch thick dictionary, remember those big ones? And my uncle, a Britannica, sent us one time for Christmas one time, and I'd go through it those— I think I'd told you that story... And God says, "Come, let's reason together." And I love to reason and analyze, and whoever had this role at the end of the age would have had to be the one just— who never rests. My mother said from the time I was born, my mind never rested. It just never does. It was always going, all the time. Sometimes I'm going on other things when I'm talking, and that's just the way I am. Someone would have to come along and explain and re-explain prophecy, the Apostasy, hundreds of doctrines, and write them up and points, and all kinds of analysis and logic. So let's just look at some logic. My mother would never let me get away with bad logic ..."
"You know what my suggestion to you is? Don't leave the church! Stay in the church. Stay in the Temple of God. Continue doing the Work; continue under God's government. Don't compromise, don't leave; don't go anywhere. The signal is coming here. It's only the people of God  that go to the place of safety. Why would God tell anybody else?? Why would He send a signal that's broader than the church, when it's something that only involves the church? Why would He put it on a bulletin board with neon signs across the world telling the church to flee? He [Christ] would tell the church— that's who He's working with— He's not working with other people!"
"We get a signal nobody else gets. It can't be any other way. So the official position of the Restored Church of God— the official position is that "You can't know." But the official position is, "It's okay because you're guaranteed to get the signal if you don't leave the church, you don't leave God's government, you remain a living stone, waiting, enduring patiently doing God's Work. You're guaranteed to know! And that's the official position of the church."

 "How do you know whether a miracle is from Satan or a miracle is from God? Well, the only true miracles occur within the Body of Christ where the gift of miracles has occurred...[stutters] is given. If the miracle is "true" it will happen in the Restored Church of GodAll other miracles occurring anywhere on earth will be false"

...We're not talking about a special offering here...This is different...This is in faith— making the decision with you and your wife on your knees with your Bible open, asking for faith and strength, the faith to liquidate certain existing assets and give them to the Work! We are ready to trumpet now! Will you copy my wife? Will you be followers of her and me?...
 "If you hold those riches, I'm telling you, you trust in them! ...I am charged by God, reading this verse to charge all of you out there in the Work, in the church, who have assets. You have a home that's paid off? Go get a big chunk out of your home and put your money where your mouth is and send it here! And I'm not talking one, two, three thousand either! How about ten, twenty, thirty, fifty, a hundred thousand dollars— Go do it!! Woo hoo, Mr. Pack, you got serious! You haven't heard anything yet— keep listening. "

 "The Work needs the funds now, not when I can maximize personal benefit and help the Work! Now there could be penalties. That's life! It's better that the Work gets 75% or 50% of something, as opposed to waiting 3, 5, 7, 10 years, or never getting it at all— but getting 100% of it— which could be 100% of nothing! One percent of something beats a 100% of nothing, or even getting it too late to do anything. "Well, I'll lose to taxes." Well, if you die, or all kinds of ways you can outlive the time left, waiting to save on taxes. But even if you die a couple of years before dying, there's Probating the Will, and then we haven't time to spend it.  Think big! Don't just squander the money! Or pay penalties as you pull a 401K, or whatever, or other assets— don't squander! Pull big triggers! Think big! A little bit of planning can help."

"The worst that can happen, and I'm prepared for this— is that you run it all the way up, and then you have to amortize it in a term loan after 10 or 20 years. It requires some faith, but not a lot. Now you just have a second mortgage instead of an Equity Line. It's converted into a term loan, paid over a period of 10 or 20 years, starting in 10 or 20 years. It's what I've done. I'm prepared to do it. And then, frankly, we flee before most of it ever comes due. That's just the way it is."

Proverbs 20:6. Most men— not all— some will just be faithful...We've had people come and voluntarily promise to send in assets. Some have even said "These assets belong to God" then compared themselves to *Ananias and Sapphira that they didn't get it here. [Uses loud, chastising voice] Wait until they see how they've offended God when they don't do it!! My counsel to them and to all others who've made promises to God, even to God privately, "Go get those assets and get them here!! You're kidding yourself if you think you're going to be in the Kingdom of God!! ...[Uses sarcastic, demeaning voice] "Oh, you can count on me!" and then they're not here. They don't show up...You know if you've opened your mouth and said you're going to give something then you better give it. I know there are different circumstances in different nations, brethren, and I know that. There are certain hoops you have to jump through. Maybe you get taxed for a certain amount you give. And you know what? Jump through the hoops! Don't sit on vast resources we can use now! I'll tell you more about what we want to do in just a moment."

* Opinion: Dave...  The story of Ananias and Sapphira waas a personal slam, the church under Paul , would have gotten, on Peter, who Paul felt was just as bad as Judas.  Judas betrayed Jesus and Peter denied him. No diff.  The parody is that here are two poor folk who promised one thing, to give all, and did another, held back being condemned by the Great Peter, who promised one thing, "I will never leave you Jesus", and did another, ran like hell.  Don't follow Peter. I always had my doubts one could literally kill church members and have no one inquire about "where are my parents?" or "My relatives came to your church and never came home."  I doubt the Romans would have let that pass either. 

 "If you say you're going to do something, do it!! Neither say it was in error.  "I didn't mean to say it!" You know what? You said it! Don't say, "It was an error! I'm sorry! It was a mistake!"  "I'll do this, I'll do that" then you don't do it. Fear your God! You uttered it, do it!! Saying it is not good enough, and that includes what you privately say in prayers!"

"There are others who don't pay third tithe. The church is not obligated to spend third tithe caring for the brethren that we do not receive. You are required— it is a command to you— every third and sixth year in a seven-year cycle, to send third tithe in and care for your brethren..."

"It's all going to be taken away from us anyway, brethren. Do you want to give it up in advance— some of it— while you can have great reward— or do you want to hold on to it, and lose it anyway because thieves are going to get at it unless you don't believe Christ?You aren't going where you think you're going. And that may include the Kingdom of God, by the way."

 "I've talked about using a Home Equity Line that I've used many times. And there are ways to do this. This is not something that's pie in the sky. Home Equity Line is for people who have a lot of equity in their home, or maybe have their home paid off. It's a great way to advance funds to the Work. You can also leave enough in the Equity Line, which could, in affect, for years – make your payment for you – so you literally don't feel it. For instance, you can get 20, 30, 40, 50 thousand dollars— or much more— and never feel a payment for years because you're also making your payments out of the Equity Line. I have done that. It allowed me to give a lot and never feel it. It takes faith..."

" I have no equity essentially in my home. My Home Equity Line is basically maxed. I have a huge payment, [but it] doesn't bother me. I'm in the middle of an appraisal. I literally have no money. I have no debts except that Home Equity Line which is colossal in size."
"I'm left with a great big, many hundreds of dollars a month, coming out of my pocket that I will be stuck with for the rest of my life— no health insurance, just remember, lost my wife's salary same time I had to borrow every dime to bury her. I don't want a dime...I'm not asking for any. I'll be fine."

 " Wives, you can be independent in this. You have half the worth in whatever is there in your house. I'm officially telling all of you, read verses 17, 18, 19 and focus on it. Wives you have an independent voice. Legally you have half the funds. What are you going to do about it?"  

(Unless wifey is not in the church....)

"Husbands, your wife,  "Well, my wife isn't in the church. She doesn't want me to do it." You know what?  Tell her, "You don't have a voice, woman." She might say, "Well, I disagree" and she might fight ya, but, well then, that's what happens..."

" Now some would say, "Well, I have to leave everything to my husband or my wife." Again, my question is, "Why?" Leave enough so that they're cared for, whether in or out of the faith? "Well I just feel that I should leave my Lutheran wife everything," somebody might say.  Why??? Get over that feeling!!! That's what Satan wants you to do!!! He would absolutely agree with your decision. God wouldn't agree with it. "Well my wife's in the faith. I'll just leave it to her and trust her." Well, wait a minute! She'd be the first to tell you to "Give it now— don't leave anymore than what I need." If she doesn't say that, then she's not in the faith, she's just sitting here warming a seat. The wife, in the faith, will say, "Give everything we can. Leave just enough for me."

"Now let's talk about Wills. Naming the Restored Church of God in your Will sometimes might cause an individual to think they're doing the right thing. That's good, that's wonderful. But they feel comfortable that they've done their part. Think about it. How much faith does that require? The Church gets everything when you die and you don't need it anymore? Where did you sacrifice anything?? Now again, that's a nice thought. But all you're saying is since you're dead you don't need anymore financial security. No faith. Get it now— When it requires faith. When you're dead you don't need it. We have people who have hundreds upon hundreds of thousands of dollars— some even millions— they're telling us they're going to give us in Wills. We're kind of put in a funny position when you think this through. Do we pray that people die so we can get it? We can't do that! I'm going to get an inheritance from my uncle some day. I don't pray that he dies— I can't do that...Don't put God in the position where you have to die, where He must say "I need that money" and you won't turn loose of it now. If you named us in your Will, it could take months or years, particularly if there's litigation before we have it. Think it through... "
"We live in a strange, different, final generation—final generation. Don't look for excuses to hold on to your treasure! We don't have the luxury of waiting years...Today, leaving everything in your Will doesn't work!"

" If God boomed from heaven to go the place of safety—"You must do this!" —meaning, "empty your assets!" there would be no test of faith! The test is whether you believe the human servant, or servants, His Headquarters, that God is using. That's the way God always works. God works through flesh and hence the test of faith."
"If you send funds, or a great deal is sent collectively around the world, let's be careful that we don't grow a voice suddenly in how it should be spent...When you give, it belongs to God. It's like tithes. You don't come after you give and tell God and His servants how to spend it. The church has to be the judge of how to do that."


Anonymous said...

Cutess facepalm ever

Anonymous said...

she died 48 years ago!

Byker Bob said...

There are some people who just don't get the fact that things they say or write in our current electronic times are forever, and they can be fact-checked based on referring back to these things.

Let me explain, using a non-ACOG example.
Tonight, I was watching a program on which Bob Dylan's "Shelter From the Storm" was used as one of the musical interludes. I remembered having seen him perform this on a TV special many years ago, only I recalled him having used slide guitar. So, I googled "Dylan, Shelter From the Storm, 1976". It came up on Youtube. It was part of an NBC special of his Rolling Thunder Review, and there he was, with a white towel over his head, singing, and playing the slide parts on a vintage National Resoglass electric guitar, the ones that were shaped roughly like the North American continent. I also recalled being moved by his rendition of Woody Guthrie's "Deportees" on that same special, and found him doing a duet of it with Joan Baez. That song was moving to me because I worked every day with some undocumented aliens named Jesus and Maria, just like in that song, and they were at one point deported, and gone for several months.

The point for Dave is this: The predictions he made just 3-4 years ago, whether he deleted them from his own website or not, are still around. We who participate in the blogs often learn, and our opinions change. But a minister who expects people to base their lives on his interpretations of prophecy is different. He surely must know that these people who, for the time, believe that God is speaking through him are going to remember what he says. If it doesn't come to pass, or something completely different happens, they will naturally lose all confidence in what he has to say. This isn't the 1950s during which HWA could prophesy a cataclysm for 1972-75, knowing that there was no way his listeners could check back into the 1940s, and learn that in a prior mistake, he was calling Hitler the Beast, and predicting that WW II would end in Armageddon.


Anonymous said...

From memory, his wife died from cancer. This isn't a sacrifice. A sacrifice involves a choice. It's not as if his wife sold her body organs to give money to the work. How about Pack setting a example by selling his house, giving this money to the work, then go live in a tent. After you Mr Pack.