Exposing the underbelly of Armstrongism in all of its wacky glory! Nothing you read here is made up. What you read here is the up to date face of Herbert W Armstrong's legacy. It's the gritty and dirty behind the scenes look at Armstrongism as you have never seen it before! With all the new crazy self-appointed Chief Overseers, Apostles, Prophets, Pharisees, legalists, and outright liars leading various Churches of God today, it is important to hold these agents of deception accountable.
Herbert Armstrong's Tangled Web of Corrupt Leaders
- Contact Blog Owner No2HWA:
- Contact Dennis Diehl
- DAVID C PACK: We Are In A Serious Dilemma! EVERYTHING I HAVE WRITTEN IS WRONG!
- Evaluating the Rumors about Herbert Armstrong and Incest
- Apostolic Treasures: The Treasures Of Herbert W Armstrong
- Bob Thiel: The Remarkable Story of The Mysterious ThD and Subtle Deceptions of Bob Thiel
- Wacky World of Dave Pack
- David C. Pack's Wacky World 2
- Mulling Things Over With Dennis Page 1
- "Mulling Things Over With Dennis" Page 2
- Mulling Things Over With Dennis Page 3
- Van Robison
- Idiots in the Pulpit
- Herbert Armstrong's Tangled Web
- Armstrongism: Is It The Plain Truth? 8/5
- The Daughter of Babylon: A True History of the Workdwide Church of God
- The Armstrong Error Booklet
- Mr. Confusion 1971
- Book: The Truth Shall Make You Free
- UCG/COGWA Child Molester
- PCG Suicide
- How Fred Dattalo, Cal Culpepper and Gerald Flurry Caused A PCG Suicide
- LCG Pedophiles
- Rod Meredith HATES This Blog!
- Rod McNair Says Elderly Possessed By Demons
- Herbert Armstrong Confesses to Incest!
- Herbert Armstrong's Documented Prophecies By Decad...
- Worldwide Church of God vs. Philadelphia Church of God
- Pasadena Campus in 2019
- Ambassador College Pasadena Campus Demolition and ...
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Just found this site - LOVE IT! Wish I could simply do nothing the rest of the day except read it.
Am a childhood survivor of WWC and now impacted by PCG (brother has returned to the vomit and we are all in the 'no contact' circle).
My sister has gotten involved in the United Church of Christ and I would like to know more about this 'no contact' circle to try to help her children. Our family is basically being shunned since my sister and her crazy husband got involved in the 'cult'.
Ezekiel chapter 4, the whole of the chapter, is the answer here. David Pack is clearly the fat sheep there to supposedly shepherd and protect the skinny sheep who though deceived, only want to do God's will -- but instead is feeding off the sheep, even eating them.
It is up to the thin sheep to read Ezekiel 34, and to realize such shepherds that 'eat the sheep' can only be wolves.
Ezekiel 34:10 . . . . No longer shall the shepherds feed themselves. I will rescue my sheep FROM THEIR MOUTHS, that they may not be food for them.
God himself will search for these thin sheep, and seek them out (v 11), and ultimately King David is to be their shepherd.
David C Pack is neither God, nor is he King David. These thin sheep are drastically in need of rescue from the David C. (wolf) Pack types.
I just found your website. It is amazing. Will be spending a lot of time reading what you have here.
Great work. Keep it coming
I have recently set up a website and posted an article "The Legacy of the Worldwide Church of God." Check it out at biblesafety.com
My website is so small compared to yours. I think you might find some articles interesting. After spending 10 years in the WCG and about 10 years in CGI, I threw all my beliefs in the trash and started over using only the Bible to guide me.
Just found your site. It is amazing. I will be spending a lot of time reading it.
I spent 10 years in the Worldwide and another 10 years in CG International most of it post GTA.
Finally, took everything I had learned in both organizations and threw it in the trash and started over using only the Bible to guide me.
Recently setup a website.
It is very small compared to this but it has some articles you might find interesting. Like: "The Legacy of the Worldwide CG."
Thank you so much for your hard work in making this website available to thousands who need this wisdom to overcome what Satan has done in the Worldwide CG and it hundreds of evil spin offs.
I know you, I once met you way back in 1994 and things did not seem right about you back then. At that time you were part of the WCG, a minister in that organization. But God was stirring me away from the WCG because they had become apostate 20 years before and change the teachings that God put into His church for lies of Satan the Devil and Satan and those that are his were working in that group until they are now nothing more then a Protestant church like the rest of the deceived so called churches of this world. Churches they once preached against they have become just like them.
I am now a proud member of Church of God, the Eternal, and if you are going to put down this group, at least get the name right.
I for one follow no man other then myself, by that I meaning that the only man I love more than God is myself and God knows what I mean by that.
Back when Mr. Armstrong first started his misintry God gave him the truth but he let his love for his son and the things of this world lead him away from what God had revealed to him. But what the COGE taught me is very simple to understand and it is based primarily on that as to why I believe that the teachings that were given in the beginning are THE TRUTH. TRUTH does not change and God do not lead one into error but into truth.
Why do all these groups think that God would have given the the wrong day to keep Pentecost (Pentecost is on a MONDAY not on Sunday) or that the teachings on D&R was wrong and had to be changed. God can not and do not lie. Marriage is for life. When one is legally in God's eyes married to someone that is lawfully married. By this I mean if two people never married before and fraud is not involve agree to marry that marriage is for life and not from spouse to spouse. Saying that one can have another spouse while the first one is still alive is like saying that God will have more than one wife when He return to be King of kings and Lord of lords. That is adultery and those that practice such things will not inherit the Kingdom of God, or those that teach it is okay and alright to have a second or third or so on spouse while the first and legit spouse is alive. Yes you can divorce be one is not free to remarry while the first and lawful spouse is alive. To do such is ADULTERY and such a person practicing such behavior will not enter God's Kingdom. How can anyone that can't handle the pressure of living alone because they have a living spouse ever hope to be married for eternity to the all powerful living God? They can not and God will not have such a person in His kingdom.
I just hope that you have not gone so far off the deep end that you now believe that God will some how honor and respect the marriage of two people of the same sex/gender. Do you not consider that an abomination in the eyes of God.? All of these other splinter groups believe in a Sunday Pentecost because they feel that Mr. Armstrong had the ability to change laws of God but not even the Apostile Paul believed he had that right. Gal 1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
Gal 1:7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
Gal 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
Gal 1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed. Paul was a true servant of God up til the very end of his life. But all you Armstrong followers believe that he had more power than God that created Him. When he changed the laws of God for a lie 99 % of the members of the Church went right along with the changes. Pentecost or should I say the changing of the day Pentecost is to be kept is the one (Holy Day) that swept you and them away. Mal 2:3 Behold, I will corrupt your seed, and spread dung upon your faces, even the dung of your solemn feasts; and one shall take you away with it. God does not honor all of these groups convocation because they all have rejected God and God have rejected them. But there is ONE group that God honor because they are thriving their best to honor God. You and others need to find that group and worship God with those that have held on to THE TRUTH.
Thank you for taking the time to comment Bob. I appreciate your sincerity and we simply can agree to disagree on who and what God is and what on earth He/She/It might be doing. I'm glad you are the only man you love more than you love God and that God understands...whatever that means. If I had met you back in 1994 I may also have thought there was something not right with you as well. Who knows. Like most zealots for their version of the truth, you are very judgmental towards others who have taken a different path or drawn different conclusions in their own experiences than your own. Your quotes of Paul in Galatians are interesting to me because of how much they prove he was no team player, got none of his "Gospel" from any earthly Jesus or disciples and was willing to curse those who didn't believe things as he did. Keep reading and you will see that Paul had NO use for Peter , James or John either who he labeled "apostles so called" and then went on to note who they were made no difference to him and that he learned NOTHING from them. Paul didn't even teach or believe what Peter, James and John did and they were supposedly there with the real Jesus or at least Gospel Jesus, whom of course, no Paul ever heard anything about. It comes as a shock to learn the Jesus of Paul was hallucinatory and in the heavens and never was any Jesus on the earth. Gnosticism at its best. Big topic but don't be too quick to quote Paul if you wish to keep your current beliefs intact.
At any rate, not to worry. I am fine.
Only thing I will say to you is that GOD rebuke you, you are surely on the path to the Lake of Fire if you ever believed that truth at all. May God lead you back to the truth and have extreme mercy on you. Or do you want that. I feel sorry for you when you"sleep" because for you there will be absolutely no excuse. May God lead you to full repentance. Please do not reply to this message, because there is no need in debating you about things you should know better than a lay person.
May God bless you for His sake.
Thank you Bob....
"God rebuke you" and God bless you"
Well....if I have to choose....
"God rebuke you" and God bless you"
Well....if I have to choose....
I don't know why you do this blog, you obviously still believe in God. Don't you fear that you may be fighting against Him. The Devils believe in God, and tremble. Have they deceived you to believe that you are going to be okay. I do hope you are deceived,for your sake because God is very forgiving and merciful. He forgave Ahab and what he did eclipses this blog. If you once knew God and have turned away, then you may feel comfortable with no concern about how God views this. (Even in that He is merciful}. Still I feel sad for you, and I hope that repentance is still available to you. I won't defend anyone you have disrespected here, God takes care of His own, but also we rejoice when persecuted by others. It strengthens us. We will be okay.I hope you will be okay. I will mention you in my prayers though, and pray that you have not sinned a sin that leads to death. Take care.
I don't know why you do this blog, you obviously believe in God. Don't you fear that you may well be fighting against Him. The Devil believe in God, and tremble. I don't mean to be rude, but are you too simple minded to tremble? Have they deceived you to believe that you are going to be ok. I do hope you are deceived,for your sake because God is very forgiving and merciful. He forgave Ahab and what he did eclipses this blog. If you once knew God and have turned away, then you may feel comfortable with no concern about how God views this. (Even in that He is merciful}. Still I feel sad for you, and I hope that repentance is still available to you. I won't defend anyone you have disrespected here, God takes care of His own, but also we rejoice when persecuted by others. It strengthens us. We will be ok. I will mention you in my prayers though and pray that you have not sinned a sin that leads to death. Take care.
What do you think about RCG, and it's announcement of a first dominion? This completely changes what was ever taught by Mr. Armstrong about the millennium and Christ's 1000 year rule on earth. Mr. Pack is saying that the Church (RCG) will rule before the tribulation.
there's seems to be a new cog, called the british israel cog by peter salemi. what's the story on this?
Hi Dennis, just wondered if you ever get tired of all the self-righteous bullshit people just feel compelled to speak?
The topic of Isaiah 28:9-11 came up after the death of Herbert W. Armstrong in 1986 and the total apostasy of the Tkaches in 1995. HWA had used these verses to explain how to study the Bible. Others now claimed that these verses were just talking about the babbling of drunks, and those who hated HWA immediately believed that theory and quickly exclaimed that HWA had been “wrong yet again.”
Notice that the major Bible translations like the KJV from four hundred years ago and the more modern NIV translate these verses the way they do. The NIV does have a footnote that says, “(possibly meaningless sounds; perhaps a mimicking of the prophet's words)”.
HWA had taught that, “The full explanation or truth of any one subject is seldom made complete and clear in any one passage. Other portions, factors, or phases of the subject are usually contained in one or several other passages in other parts of the Bible either in the Old or New Testament. A true and full understanding of this subject is profitable only when these perhaps several other passages, scattered throughout the Bible, are put together.” HWA wrote, “I learned that the Bible is like a jigsaw puzzle--thousands of pieces that need putting together--and the pieces will fit together in only one way.” (See Mystery of the Ages by HWA, page xi).
I still remember that someone who had been thinking about the matter turned to me in his swivel chair and said the following as I entered his office one day:
“Even if Herbert Armstrong was wrong--and I am not saying that he was--and these verses are just talking about the babbling of drunks, rather than 'here a little, and there a little,' nevertheless, that is how the Bible is written. It is written 'here a little, and there a little.'”
Thanks for the comment. The nature of the Bible, 66 books by different authors all claiming some insight into the truth of God, Jesus and eternity would have to be "here a little there a little . The point is that one cannot use Isaiah 28 to say that the way to study the Bible and arrive at it's meanings is described by this scripture. It is not. The context is indeed about the talk and sound, to God , of the drunken priests teachings as that of a child etc and basically "blah, blah blah" to which "God" reacts to give them a dose of their own medicine.
Crackpots come in all sorts of shapes, sizes and a mentally delusional fruitcake state, for personal agendas; which mold do you belong to?? please go back on your meds.
ps. This is the first time i saw your site on a friends computer. So don,t pat yoursef on the back.
Hello Dennis! I enjoy reading your posts on the New Testament authors, and your perspectives on church history, religion/God in general. You have humor, intelligence, and experience with a number of the grand poobahs who run their version of the one and only one true church. Keep posting! Look forward to reading more of your work.
In response to the person inquiring about Dave Pack and his teachings please post
the link to this new video with some new info regarding the false prophet Dave Pack
I was not exactly sure if this was the right place to contact for offering up what might be considered as a new post on the blog.
For some time, I have been biting my tongue over a little-known splinter group located out in Eugene, Oregon that goes by the name of "Church Of God, The Eternal"; the name you are no doubt familiar with. I noticed one of their members attempting to lambaste you back in 2015.
I spent extensive time in this group (dozens of years), and found myself on the outside because I was pushed out by the current director pastor. A story so long, I do not have the desire to write it all down here.
Anyways, back to the subject at hand. This group for a number of years has been increasing in their legalistic views, so much now that it has reached a fever pitch. The latest offering of many, was on the subject of their dress code. To say the least, the two monthly letters written on the subject (why it took 2 I don't know), are horrific. Clearly they have gotten away from the spiritual matters and intents of the heart. I will post links to the two letters here. I think it would make a good showing on this blog, to see just how far away from God these off shoots have gone. Personally in my opinion, COGTE has gotten far worse than any of the Packs or others that have been written about on this blog. You decide.
I cannot believe I stumbled across this blog! I can 'sort of' say I'm a Philadelphia Church Survivor. But in order to escape the grips, I've lost my youngest son. He's only a few years from being 18, and I pray daily when he's of age then he will choose to walk away as I have. This 'church' is nothing more than a cult. Myself and my ex MIL were the rare few spouses that weren't a part of the church by choice.... But I did attend some services and 'Holy Days' while they tried to reel me in. Oh my, the stories I can tell you. My ex FIL had been around since the early days with Armstrong. My ex husband was raised in the church, left as a teen... And when our son was born- he suddenly 'felt the calling'. My 15 year old son is brainwashed. I just want to seriously pour my heart out right here. This 'church' destroyed my life. Oh.. The things they do! It is unbelievable. I've watched people die because their preachers told them not to see doctors because God would heal them if it was his will. I've seen families destroyed, including my own. I've seen members physically and mentally abused. This is NOT a church. This is a religious cult.
if you ever want to tell your story or write here just let us know.
NO2HWA - I would like to write here. SHT's recent post gave me inspiration for a modern version of the good Samaritan. Plus I would like to address some of the NT the cogs ignore which the non cog groups do so well like letting your good works shine, public group prayer, worship in church services, etc.
It could be that your son is seeking to individuate.... to be different from you to feel worth something on his own. It could be he is motivated by fear. Maybe join the Church of God (Seventh Day), which is almost totally about Jesus, and invite him along. You may have to attend his service from time to time as part of a deal (assuming you are even allowed in).
Where is this campus? I never heard of Herbert W. Armstrong College. I attended Ambassador College in Pasadena, CA in the early 1970s, and I have visited the campuses of Ambassador College at Big Sandy Texas and Bricket Wood, Herts, UK. But unless the Herbert W. Armstrong College was founded sometime after my grandfather's death, I'm inclined to call this a hoax. Haven'y you got enough evil to complain about from Ambassador College and HEWA himself without adding a phony photo and history?
And you, you are pure ignorance. I know my son, you don't. Go spread your ignorance elsewhere.
Ignorance Larry. No, my son is very happy with his life these days as am I ...
We really don't need your suggestions.
Ooohhhh I actually see what this is. This was YEARS AGO. Um, NO .... NONE of my family want to be involved with this CULT. I lived it folks. This is beyond Scientology. I remember a 'member' stapling a woman's dress because SHE felt it wasn't right. It hit her ANKLES and had a knee length slit. I can recite ALL their names.
If ANYONE ever wants the truth, just email me at email@example.com just message me. I can answer any questions.
No Larry. That is pure ignorance. This church, it is 110% pure cult. Just as it's leaders were found guilty in the 70's they are still guilty TODAY
Why would I want to JOIN a 7th Day Adventist? No. Your church is so full of hatred and lies. We have an ENTIRE BOOK exposing it. From 'the spouses that walked'. We walked away. We have plenty of evidence. Texts. Emails..FB messages. We saved it all. Not saying it is coming today or tomorrow, but it IS coming.
Why do you keep deleting what I say? I'll screen shot from here on out.
Hi Dennis, An investigative journalist and Sabbath and holy day keeper in Alaska, Daniel Lee, is investigating the Satanic pedophila in Ohio especially, and he is wondering in vue of the incest among top leaders in WCG if there was this Satanic pedophilia among the leadership. As a former WCG pastor, I never saw anything like that and no one I talked to of former WCGers has either. Do you have any knowledge of child sex trafficking and ritual abuse in any of the splinter groups? He is digging to try to find out. I personally would doubt it, but will relay your comments to him. Thank you. Senior Pastor Robert Scott, Edmonton, Alberta, Assemblies of the Father' Love.
Thanks for being in touch. No, I have never remotely heard of such things going on in WCG at any level. Anything is possible but this I would have great doubt about myself.
This will be short and sweet for those who actually believed Jesus Christ, and what He spoke as the "PURE TRUTH" HIMSELF in John 3:19, 20, John 4:23, 24, John 14:6, and Matthew 15:13, 14!!!! It was very easy for Jesus Christ to prove to those with eyes to "perceive" what even a
teacher of Saul spoke that was recorded in the scriptures, and understood by so "FEW" in Act 5:11. 29, 36-38, at least for those who had already been allowed to "see" what Herbert Armstrong admitted in his own co~worker letters, on June 24, 1985, and September 16, 1985 since what "apparently" only one man in the Bible understood in Job 34:26, 29, 30 was revealed by Jesus Christ Himself, to those who already understood Job 38:2, 15 and Job 40:8, since Christ has proven already how easy it was for Him to prevent "tares" from entering into God the Father's presence long, LONG ago, in John 10:1, 12, 13!!! PERIOD!!! How? Revelation 21:8, 27!!!!
Why would someone actually being led by Jesus Christ Himself personally not be able to identify a "foolish virgin" (Matthew 25:9) like those already dealt with by Jesus Christ Himself personally, in Revelation 21:8, 27? John 10:1, 12, 13
Why would men who presume in their own hearts and minds they are as wise as Eliphaz, Zophar and Bildad condemn someone like Job, when "they" can't even explain, "Job chapters 38-42" even while "choosing" to ignore Job 36:17, 18 and verse 21? Yes, this was proven in 1985, by those "FEW" already given eyes to "perceive" the PURE TRUTH in John 3:19, 20, Matthew 23:8-10, John 4:23, 24, and John 14:6!!!!!!!!
However, it certainly does not appear a single man claiming to be as wise as Peter in these places full of men like those in Acts 5:36-38, are wise enough to "confess" what Peter already knew about liars who "wrest" Paul's writings and the other scriptures to their own destruction, while continuing to ignore II Peter 3:14-16, 17, 18 and Romans 1:23, Romans 2:1-4, 6, 11, 13 to this very day? Revelation 21:8, 27
Why else would so many "hypocrites" who had been overheard condemning Job for their own choice to do what he was guilty of himself in Job 38:2, if "they" were aware of the pure truth, even Job was led to "see" in Job 42:2, unless they were guilty of trying to claim so many "flattering titles" in Christ's hearing He knew "they" were never worthy of while preaching right the opposite of what Ezekiel already had himself in Ezekiel 14:14 long ago?
Therefore, since those who accused others of being "self-righteous" like Job (Job 38:2) were already guilty of trying to force others to deny Christ as their ONLY SAVIOR, (Job 42:7) due to their own "folly" of being unable to discern between good and evil, why would anyone choose to join themselves to men like those Christ's anger was poured out upon like we read in Job 42:7? (John 10:1, 12, 13, Acts 5:3, 9, 11, 29, 36-38, Revelation 3:9, Revelation 12:9, 17, Revelation 21:8, 27)
Those who "presumed" themselves to be as wise as Christ in Numbers 20:12, obviously still cannot "perceive" what Job already had himself in Job 13:4, 7-9, 10, and Job 42:2, 7, 8?
Proof? John 10:1, 12, 13, Revelation 21:8, 27
Just got Pecks book~The Awesome Potential of Man~Pg9Para5 Utterly floored me;"The world has believed a false gospel for 2,000yrs. It has generally supposed that Jesus Christ IS the gospel rather than the Messenger of it.The Message~the centerpiece~~ of the Gospel is NOT Christ.(WHAT?!)
By focusing on Him~the Messenger~religious deceivers (speaking of yourself!) have been able to successfully suppress and cover up the Message that He brought!!!"
I call BS! Everything points us to Jesus. Even the substructure and hidden codes & messages ALL POINT TO HIM.
Im glad they showed the true colours on the opening pg.
Your site blocks 1/2 pg is dark green
I believe I met you at the Feast in Australia with LCG maybe 2002? I agree with your assessments as I have rejected the offshoots of WCG. However, I am not sure what you personally believe these days. Please enlighten me! John Dickerson
I think you should post this.
The gall of Gerald Flurry accusing a first-century saint of PLAGIARISM! In PCG's recent Royal Vision page 4 under the section JUDE'S PLAGIARISM he wrote:
"Just a few months after Peter wrote his second epistle, he was martyred. Then Jude wrote his book, which he practically plagiarized from 2 Peter 2. Jude simply emphasized what Peter wrote."
Following this flawed logic and stupid thinking, we can assume then that one of the three - Matthew, Mark, Luke - also plagiarized one another as their gospels are very similar.
We can see what he's obviously doing here. He's trying to minimize the negative effects of plagiarism and trying to normalize it in a way so that he can excuse what he himself is guilty of -- doing one over Jules Dervaes' work 'Letter to Laodicea.' This is his act of trying to alleviate his conscience then.
What a shameless accusation of Jude. He ought to be treated as a dissident himself as he hurls accusation against a member of the body. He is spreading distrust and disunity and therefore must be cut off as he had cut off others.
That is exactly what I did! I read the Bible, [no middle-man] to interpret it, just God and Jesus Christ our Savior to help us in this mad world we are in!
Dear @Bob (defender of 'Church of God, the Eternal'),
The opening line of your website is: "Recognizing a person, a concept, an organization, or whatever, is at anytime important. Yet, during times of distress, confusion, or bewilderment such recognition is imperative."
There is no biblical truth backing your important and imperative claim. In fact, quite the opposite. Looking to a man (or group) is how deception comes. False prophets, Diotrophes, lying apostles, deceivers, man coming in the name of Christ...etc. Need I go on?
This reeks of just another group claiming to be the "one true church" riding on HWA nostalgia. You give yourselves credit at being immune from deception, yet you are near identical to a litany of other splinters who cannot critically look at HWA. Men who are builders without the chief cornerstone, competing to be the most Armstong-ite.
Can we all ring our hands at Ron Weinland and his wife having to go to Hawaii next week to see the brethren (maybe there will be 10) such sacrifice who knows the bounds these 2 will go through, 2 hr sermon, than a wk of sun and fun, tough life, but you know the brethren will have it so, I think most if not all of the tithes support him and the family,That''s what happens seems a lot of ministers are a law unto themselves well if they go near the water perhaps a visitor or two will show up to welcome them to there feast..
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