The Foolishness of Preaching: "When we flee.........

Gerald Waterhouse raised the concept of saving yourself in the flesh and protection from all the end time events as he perceived them to an art form.  He also raised it to a level of foolishness causing endless questions and fears among the members after they had to endure his marathon 4 hour rants.  

I told Gerald Waterhouse on his last visit to my area I ever had to endure that he raised more questions and caused more anxiety among church members than he solved. (I got kicked under the table) .  All he said was "Really?"   Later that evening  I asked him what he would say and think when (NOT IF)  HWA died.  I had it in my mind that old people died for some reason and life went on.  He said,  "I'll believe it after three days and three nights."   I knew it was over for me personally. 

What's all the fuss about saving themselves physically?  Who cares if you went to a Place of Safety for "Final Training" and lasted a few more years in the flesh?  Why worry about if  whoever said it was "Time to flee." wasn't just nuts and delusional and another Jim Jones and Jonestown looming?  Why agonize over family, friends and the family pets?  Why try to figure out where to land the "Wings of Eagles" to be provided by the US government in the form of 747's they'd provide just to get rid of the righteous?  Just hide me in the grave for Pete's, or my, sake.

I have never heard anyone in positions of knowing the mind of the gods to just be content with being hidden in the grave, as the OT notes, "until thy wrath be passed."  Guess you can't control the dead or scare the tithes out of them with warnings of what it takes to be chosen, special, called and a royal priesthood who only was worthy of saving in the flesh if they prayed, payed, obeyed and stayed. 

 Dave Pack has made it very clear that the resources of his members are useless because they won't need it when they flee....so send it in.   

"Paul spent his short ministry preaching  the "we who alive and remain" approach as well with a smattering of "we shall not all die" (they did) as well.  Then he realized he was wrong and went the way off all flesh just as today's  "When we flee..." and "We shall be changed" promoters will in time. 

"There has to be some kind of prior signal to the church to get ready to be in Judea in 1290 ...that occurs at the 1335. What is the signal? I'm going to tell you on the authority of God this is what it is: It is an internal signal given to the church and nobody else, and we won't know it until we're given the signal, because if it were to be known before, it would be in the Scriptures. It's given to the church and that's why it's not listed in the Bible and only the people in God's Church— you understand all the sequence of prophecy, the people who understand, the "wise," will hear the signal and heed the signal because they're in the right place to get— to receive— the signal. It's an internal signal. It has to be— similar to when the Christians fled when Jerusalem was about to be destroyed by the Romans in 69-70 A.D., and so they fled and they heard a noise out of the sky, a voice "Get you hence!" Thunder came right out of the sky...and they literally marched, history said, they marched right out of Jerusalem and the Roman army sort of stood back aghast as they went to Pella and escaped."

 [Speaking of Home Equity Lines] 

"The worst that can happen, and I'm prepared for this— is that you run it all the way up, and then you have to amortize it in a term loan after 10 or 20 years. It requires some faith, but not a lot. Now you just have a second mortgage instead of an Equity Line. It's converted into a term loan, paid over a period of 10 or 20 years, starting in 10 or 20 years. It's what I've done. I'm prepared to do it. And then, frankly, we flee before most of it ever comes due. That's just the way it is."

Dave Pack

The Clarion Call

http://www.exitsupportnetwork.com/artcls/clarion.htm

"Good News"

 "But consider now the special time of this prophecy about protection in a mysterious wilderness. Notice exactly which period in the history of God's Church the escape shall occur. Turn to Revelation 3:7-13. This is addressed to the Philadelphia Era of God's Church — the Church before whom Christ opens the door to preach His gospel around the world (verse 8). Because this Church has kept Gods word, Jesus promises: "I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation" — the time of trial — "which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth' (verse 10). Here is a world-wide terror to come upon all nations. This is not for the slow-moving past. It is a prophecy for the pulsating present the last days of human history — just before God intervenes to set up His Kingdom to bring peace at last. 
   Here is a prophecy for this generation — at the very time God's Church is preaching and publishing the Gospel of the Kingdom of God world-wide. This prophecy is about us! 
   But how will Jesus keep us from the coming trial and persecution? We just read the answer from Revelation 12! There is a place of safety, in a wilderness, for the people of God. 
   But where is that wilderness? 

Hermann Hoeh 

Good News Magazine April 1962

"The Bible teaches that a portion of the Christians will be protected in a wilderness area during the Great Tribulation. Might this place be Petra in Jordan? Which places do the Bible show can and cannot be the place of safety? Is the idea of Christians fleeing to an area with caves during the reign of the Beast and Antichrist an old one or a modern invention? Which Christians get this protection and which do not? Will those who do not go be subject to persecution? Do Catholic prophecies warn against this biblical place of protection?

As far as Petra goes there are several clues in the Bible that suggests Petra or a place similar to it. But part of this is based upon where the place of protection is not."

"In terms of its location from Jerusalem, Petra (Sela on some Bible maps) is mainly south and slightly east of Jerusalem. 

Now it is also possible that the actual place could simply be just be near Petra or perhaps the location will be far from it. 

Philadelphians and the Wilderness 

In the New Testament, while not all Christians are promised physical protection, the Philadelphians are promised to be protected from the Great Tribulation and this place is in the wilderness according the the Book of Revelation:"

"Places, such as Petra, are in the wilderness and in a biblically possible location.
Now, because of the fact that Petra is such an important tourist site for Jordan, and because of archaeological considerations, it may not be the place. But it could be or even near the place.

While Petra may not be the place, it is a place to be considered."

Robert Thiel

Might Petra be the Place of Safety?

You.Tube


All of this is truly an example of the foolishness and the dangers  of preaching  and what most members I knew found  more disturbing  than encouraging and hoped wasn't really true 

Living Church of God's Deep Obsession With This Blog

Within minutes of posting the previous post about Rod Meredith, Charlotte came alive with countless hits coming through.  The boys at HQ are constantly monitoring us.  It is actually quit hilarious!

Rod Meredith: Did Christ Actually Start Both Of His Churches?

Lots of empty seats for God's greatest COG leader

Rod Meredith is making the claim that Jesus Christ is the one that started both of his splinter group personality cults.  Did Jesus Christ actually do that?

As I have previously explained, Christ did raise up the Global Church of God in early 1993, through me—just a very few months after the blasphemous, “God Is...” booklet came out, along with other heretical changes in doctrine. But many were not aware of Christ raising up this Church—or had been poisoned against us by vicious rumors and accusations. So, instead of zealously searching out and proving to themselves where Christ was continuing His Work, many just stayed put or even dropped away from the Truth altogether.

Did Jesus Christ start Global?  The answer to that is a bold NO!  Try a child molester and some of his rich friends.  It was a group of employees and church members who connived and plotted behind the scenes while the Worldwide Church of God was defending Meredith's loud mouth in court.   Once Meredith lost the lawsuit and WCG had to pay damages, Meredith and his little crew of weasels began plotting his new church.  Then after Global quickly realized what a tyrant Meredith was, they tried to remove him.  Meredith and his conniving group of ne'er-do-well's  then took all of Global's money and started a new church, another one that Jesus Christ had nothing to do with.

But—mark this!—the living Christ did give people in early 1993 a “way out”—He did raise up a Church with a trained, dedicated ministry of long standing who preached the full Truth and who quickly—within weeks—went on the radio, published literature and began to revive the Work. So Jesus Christ did not “desert” you or anyone else. He is still the living Head of the Church. He is alert, active and powerfully in charge of His Church and His Work! And in His great wisdom, He is now “testing” His people to see what is really in their hearts.

Why is the god of Armstrongism always "testing" its followers?  For eight decades now it is obvious that the members have never measured up.  They have missed the mark.  The god of Armstrongism is still displeased.  Its anger can never be vanquished.  It is eternally pissed

Has the splintering of God’s people been a trial? Of course it has. But God specifically reveals that He allows trials for our good and “tests” us through them. Notice these words of the Apostle Peter: “In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while, if need be, you have been grieved by various trials, that the genuineness of your faith, being much more precious than gold that perishes, though it is tested by fire, may be found to praise, honor, and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ” (1 Peter 1:6–7). The Apostle James was also inspired to tell us the same thing: “My brethren, count it all joy when you fall into various trials, knowing that the testing of your faith produces patience” (James 1:2–3).

The splintering of the church over the decades has been the direct result of self-serving men setting themselves up as know-it-all's with their new churches focus entirely upon their personalities.   Money flow has always been the top priority in the starting of the various splinter groups.  The ministers and leaders need that money stream coming in.  That was Meredith's prime issue when starting Global.  Huge amounts of money needed to be collected BEFORE he jumped ship.  He had no faith to step out on his own.  He let his flunkies do it for him. If he truly was a man of conviction and principle then he would have required no money and no followers but stepped out in faith.

Meredith claims his group is the ONE church that is doing the real gospel and exemplifying the real form of true godly government.  That real government is supposedly a foretaste of what the government will be like in Petra and the world tomorrow.  It that is true, then the church and the world is screwed!  Government in the COG has always been a joke.  If they actually practiced what they preached, then not a single one of them would have started their own groups.  There is nothing godly about the form of government that many of the COG's pretend to use.

Meredith continues:

Christ is alive! He has not gone off and left His Church! He is not the author of confusion (1 Corinthians 14:33).

If that statment is true, then WHY is the current Churches of God in one of the most confused messes in Adventist/sabbatarian history?  Hundreds and hundreds of personality cults run by their own special guru's stealing tithe money of their own benefit.   The COG can no longer mock the hundreds of Christian denominations any more.  The Church of God is a complete and utter fractured mess.

Additionally, remember Jesus’ powerful promise in Mark 11:23–24: “For assuredly, I say to you, whoever says to this mountain, ‘Be removed and be cast into the sea,’ and does not doubt in his heart, but believes that those things he says will be done, he will have whatever he says. Therefore I say to you, whatever things you ask when you pray, believe that you receive them, and you will have them.” 

Brethren, if we in the Living Church of God “feed” on these and related scriptures, then we certainly will begin to build “an atmosphere of faith.” Also, obviously, we cannot just “work up faith.” Each of us must do his or her part in fervently studying the Word, meditating on the examples of faith in the Bible and on the things we see God do even in His Church and Work today. Then, we must CRY OUT to God in heartfelt prayer and fasting that our heavenly Father would give us the “gift” of faith through His Holy Spirit (1 Corinthians 12:7–9).

Meredith can "feed" on scriptures all he wants.  Because he ultimately denies the one he claims to follow.  All of that scripture feeding will be of no benefit to him or the church.  As long as legalism runs amok the church it cannot be a follower of Jesus.  Plus, fasting in order to appease that eternally pissed off god is not in scripture and is not a new covenant requirement. Therefore it is a waste of time and ultimately does nothing more than create hundreds of grumbling stomachs.

Next Meredith resorts to his usual doom and fear mongering.  Tough and violent times are ahead...in a very few years, of course.  That eternally pissed off god is getting ready to spank LCG members.  After being part of three different COG movements, they STILL cannot get things right.  Of course it is always the members fault and never the corrupt leaders.

Remember, God’s Word tells us, “But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him” (Hebrews 11:6). Building an atmosphere of faith within God’s Church today is absolutely vital. We cannot even fully imagine the trials, tests, persecutions and difficulties that will come upon His people during the next several years. We will all need living faith in God. And to do the Work which God really wants us to do, we will have to walk with God, commune with God and wrap our minds around some of the direct statements of Jesus Christ, such as John 14:11–12: “Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in Me, or else believe Me for the sake of the works themselves. Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father.”

The scripture that COG members need to find assurance in is this:

Matthew 11:28-30

28 “Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. 

29 Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 

30 For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.”

 

Gone is the burden of having to worry if your have "made it" or if you have been "fighting the good fight."  There is no need to worry about those things.  Grace and justification abound, legalism and the law destroy.

From Editorial: Living Faith

Doug Winnail (LCG) Does Not Like LCG Being Accused of "Prediction Addiction"

Doug Winnail has a short little piece up about how important prophecy watching is to the Living Church of God, while ignoring the fact that every prophetic utterance that has come out of Rod Meredith and Herbert Armstrong's mouth has failed to come to pass.  He is especially suffered major butthurt over LCG and its leaders being accused of suffering from "prediction addiction."

Jesus told His disciples to stay alert and watch for the fulfillment of specific prophecies that will mark the approaching end of this age (Matthew 24). Jesus also warned in the parable of the foolish virgins that many will be caught napping by the surge of events that will precede His return to this earth (Matthew 25:1-13). God has given His Church a “more sure word of prophecy” (2 Peter 1:19, KJV) so His Church can act as a watchman to warn about the prophetic significance of both current and impending world events (Ezekiel 3 and 33; Proverbs 24:11-12). Yet over the years, misguided teachers and preachers have ridiculed the Church’s understanding of prophecy and accused anyone watching Bible prophecy of suffering from “prediction addiction.” However, as we see world events fitting into the end-time scenario that is outlined in Scripture, we need to make sure we are building a closer relationship with God and that we are learning to live by every word of God—as we continue to pay attention to prophecy.

Have a profitable Sabbath,

Douglas S. Winnail

What really irradiates LCG and Winnail is that the "prediction addiction" phrase came from Grace Communion International who finally woke up to the fact that the decades of prophecies that the church and Herbert Armstrong uttered were nothing more than speculation.  There was nothing prophetic about any of the predictions.

Here is what happens. You conclude from your study of prophecy and its chronological calculations that we are in the “end times,” and that a catastrophe of “biblical proportions” is going to befall us in “just a few short years” (they are always “short” years, it seems). You then “watch and pray,” anxiously (or perhaps eagerly), fitting the events and news of the day into your predetermined framework. You watch with growing anticipation as the evidence piles up.

The problem is that the pile of evidence starts to get very shaky, and the “short years” stretch into decades. Although the pattern of major world events may not fit neatly into your prophetic scenarios, you can still find enough catastrophes to stay in the game, while you hastily recalibrate your prophetic timetable. GCI UPDATE: Prediction Addiction

Armstrongite ministers have always had to "recalculate" their predictions, or if you want a more accurate word...LIES.

Gavin Rumney had this up on his blog in 2013:

Our Roots of Prediction Addiction 

Some of us have learnt over the years to view "Bible Prophecy" with a jaundiced eye. The attempt to turn the complex texts of the Old and New Testaments into a coherent road map for the near future is doomed to failure from the outset. Ancient writings simply can't be read that way with any integrity. It's not just bad theology and rotten exegesis, it's a display of dull and incompetent basic reading skills. 

Where did we pick up the bad habit? When did the peculiar blend of Bible-quoting, fear-saturated fantasies we are familiar with first take recognizable shape? Doomsdayers have of course been with us from the earliest days of Christianity - with deep roots in Jewish apocalyptic. If we are honest about it, we can probably trace the trail even further back to the influence of dualistic religions like Zoroastrianism. 

But the version we're most familiar with owes a great deal to the Adventist "Midnight Cry." Stepping back into the nineteenth century we find the seeds of our particular prediction addiction. The various churches that have historic ties to William Miller (and, on the other side of the Atlantic, the equally disturbed John Nelson Darby) are still largely in thrall to bizarre and naive biblical misinterpretations, and the delusion that they have some kind of special "inside knowledge" about the future.  Our Roots Of Prediction Addiction

The extreme lengths we go to in the Church of God's is all due to our Adventist roots in William Miller and Ellen G White.   These two set the stage for HWA, Meredith, Thiel, Malm, Waterhouse and others.

Don Solin had an excellent article in The Hufffington Post about "prediction addiction."

Do You Have “Prediction Addiction”?

While his comments are geared more towards the stock market, it is applicable to "prediction addiction" in the Churches of God.  He writes:

This addiction is a particularly bad one. Not only are our brains hard-wired to believe we can predict the future and make sense out of random acts, it rewards us for doing so. The brain of someone engaged in this activity experiences the same kind of pleasure that drug addicts get from cocaine or gamblers experience when they enter a casino.

When predicting the unpredictable goes south, as it inevitably will, the neurons in the brain start misfiring, causing panic and anxiety.

Anything less than total confidence in our predictions implies that we have lost control. The brain resists this conclusion. Random events are perceived as the enemy.

In Armstrongism everything seems to be the enemy.  Some of its leaders find no joy in anything.  They need the world and church members to be just as miserable as they are.  Just look at the mindless rankings of James Malm and Bob Thiel.  Has the church ever seen two such unhappy men?

Living Church of God also blames Jesus for this addiction.  Note what John Wheeler had to say:

Allegedly, Jesus Himself set His followers up for "prediction addiction" in Matthew 24:3-7 when He warned of religious deception in His name, "wars and rumors of wars," famines, pestilences and earthquakes. "These things have always been around since Jesus' day," scoffers say (cf. 2 Peter 3:3–4). But they overlook the real significance of Matthew 23:8: "All these are the beginning of birth pangs" (literal Greek). When a woman is in labor, her birth pangs come in cycles, but they come more quickly and more strongly over time—leading to the "crisis" of childbirth itself. So it would be in the "latter days." During the space of a generation (Matthew 24:32–35), first broadly relevant events would occur with increasing frequency and intensity. Then, very specific events would occur with little or no warning in a very short time (cf. vv. 4–31). And all that is what students of biblical prophecy need to be watching for! No need to try to predict the day or the hour of Christ's return; that cannot be done (vv. 36–44). It is enough to be ready, no matter when all these events take place (vv. 45–51).  Tomorrow's World: Prediction Addiction 

If all of these people were actually followers of the Jesus Christ they claim to follow then they would not need to be in a constant state of worry and fret over events in the world.  World events happen as they happen, some may fit some imagined timeline, most will not.  Resting in the one you are supposed to be following is far more rewarding than following crackpots like Malm, Thiel, Meredith and others who make outlandish claims about world events.  These liars have no idea about "end time" events any more than your cat or dog does.

Matthew 11:28-30The Message (MSG)

28-30 “Are you tired? Worn out? Burned out on religion? Come to me. Get away with me and you’ll recover your life. I’ll show you how to take a real rest. Walk with me and work with me—watch how I do it. Learn the unforced rhythms of grace. I won’t lay anything heavy or ill-fitting on you. Keep company with me and you’ll learn to live freely and lightly.”

There Is A New Prophet In Our Midst Who Also Has Had A Dream Setting Him Apart

Almost Arrested, Elisha, Elijah, Amos, Joshua, Doubly Blessed Prophet/Apostle, Second Witless Witnsess and Future Martyr Bob Thiel has been working over time in trying to convince everyone that just because he had some nightmares after some bad Chinese food that he is now a true prophet of God.  He dreamed a dream and that proves it! We are expected to take his word for it.  Its all true!

Thiel has now been usurped by E W King.  Prophet King had a dream recently there he was named a true prophet of God.  If Almost Arrested Thiel can claim that his dream was legitimate, why can't King?  If I were going to pick one of the two, I would pick King as a prophet.  He seems kinder and gentler than the attention seeking narcissist Thiel.  Both men are just a few steps short of entering the looney-bin.

~Prophet Eric W. King taken December 16th at Land of Mormon Temple - The Alter~

“One of them lifted his right hand and spoke [unto Eric]. He said: “We have come from the celestial kingdom to call you forth as a prophet of God in this seventh church time. Behold, I am Elijah the prophet.” At this pronouncement I fell to the ground shaking madly. Then the other personage spoke: “Behold, I am, John the apostle. You have been working for the kingdom and now you must take on your full responsibility as prophet of the Church of Jesus Christ in this Seventh Church Time. You have rightly studied and discerned the seven church eras thus you have been lead by the Spirit of God and now called to take on the authority and responsibility of speaking with boldness and carrying this message with grace and humility to the church and to the entire world. You must now without any doubt fully trust the Lord.”

~The night of December 12th 2016 Vision~

Because of this fact we also believe that America has been given a record of its own ancient Scripture which we recognize to be what is called “The Book of Mormon”. This record of ancient Scripture was found by the prophet Joseph Smith back on September 22, 1823. 

Please understand that though we recognize this record of Scripture WE ARE NOT MORMONS in the regular sense of the title. After the death of Joseph Smith the church scattered as it always does after the death of a great leader. We do not believe in any other prophets after Joseph Smith accept for Sidney Rigdon and Eric King. We do recognize Brigham Young to be an authentic prophet but not in the same sense as Joseph Smith and it was he who led the group of people which latter on became known as “The Mormon Church” and what is today called “The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints”. So again, though we recognize the Book of Mormon to be an actual scriptural record of ancient America we do not call ourselves Mormons in the regular sense. ~

Dave Pack: Ministers Who Will Soon Be Joining Me Will Come Out Of The Ground

Dave says that many ministers who will be joining his cult will be coming to him out of the ground.

Many of the ministers that are coming to do the Work and enter the Kingdom are coming out of the ground, brethren. I am telling you, a lot of them wrote their record—they have built their character—they’ve served other people—they were faithful, in some cases, for decades before Mr. Armstrong died, and then they went wherever they went. But they are taken away because they’re settled, and they’ll come up at Christ’s Coming. 

Others are dying, and they just died. They might have been tares. They might have fallen away completely, in the past. That’s why we don’t want to judge. Don’t decide that they were evil—and don’t decide that they were righteous. Just be aware of the process that, in many cases, God takes righteous men away from an evil I’m going to explain next week—that all of you know nothing of. The time has come to explain it. It just got particularly personal this week with a group of people I knew and helped come into the Global Church of God, and I wanted to explain that.

Many Church of God Ministers and Members Ask...Critical What?????

Thousands sit and wonder...

(or should)

"That doesn't sound right to me"

Critical Thinking-Does It Matter?

The Latest Issue of The Journal (Issue190)

The latest issue of The Journal is out with a nice article about Gavin Rumney.

There is also an article by John Robinson detailing Ken Westby's take on the 1974 "rebellion" of some on the East Coast.  I remember this time in the church.  Westby called it a "reform movement."

Mr. Westby was also known as the leader of a movement from within the Worldwide Church of God in the 1970s sometimes referred to as the 1974 East Coast Rebellion. However, Mr. Westby said it wasn’t a rebellion. He called it a reform movement. 

The article then goes on to talk about how they estimate that up to 10,000 members left the church during this time.  I know in the Dayton church we lost quite a few members from this.

Living Church of God has another ad up for their "university."   They don't like their members associating with other COG's but they think it is appropriate to poach youth from other COG's. Something is wrong with that picture.

Don Billingsley is back with  another one of his outlandish articles about his vision of end time prophecy in action.  As usually his goal is to get you to read The Mystery of the Ages along side your Bible, since it is the most important book ever written.

Time is Running Out—Based on what is made known by the news media, coupled with the end-time proph- ecies, it should be real- ized the handwriting is on the wall for this na- tion, and the end of it is now very close as it was for Belshazzar King of Babylon (Daniel 5:1-31)! Prophecy reveals super- power America will be conquered by the Revived Holy Roman Empire as was the impregnable Babylonian Empire by the Medio- Persian Empire. 

MYSTERY OF THE AGES—Study your Bible together with the last book Mr. Herbert W. Armstrong wrote: the unedited MYSTERY OF THE AGES, ISBN 0-396-08773-6, and believe it. This could save your life from the worsen- ing troublesome times before us. R emember— Mr. Armstrong was the man Jesus Christ used to teach all of us His truth (II T imothy 3:13-14) 

Marie Casale has an ad up telling COG members to leave their spouses if they have remarried after divorce.

We are told to flee from fornication (1 Cor 6:18). This means that members who have unlawfully married or remarried should flee from those marriages. It also means that prospective church members who are in an adulterous second marriage while their first spouse still lives should flee from that marriage before they are baptized. Why? Because baptism does not change the definition of an adulterous marriage, nor does it forgive adultery that people are still going to continue living in.

We are also told not to company with fornicators (1 Cor 5:9-11). This means that we should separate from and stop having a one-flesh relationship with our spouse if he or she is an adulterer. If we don’t, we will defile our temple of the Lord. This is why divorce is allowed for fornication and why the Lord’s example was to divorce Israel for her fornication. 

You can read issue 190 of The Journal here.

SaveSave

Dave Pack: My Church Members Are So Electrified By My Sermons That NONE Are Leaving The Church

Superfantabulous Dave,

the most electrifying COG minister ever!

Well Dave should have kept his mouth shut.  He has lost many member since stating this, including family members.

I learned the truth that Ambassador College. It was fairly well established by the mid-1960’s God called me, as I often say 50 years ago now this month. Next week 50 years since I began to learn the truth. We heard things ahead of the brethren—but it’s been a difficult thing for our ministers. We’re learning so much, so fast, and I know everybody has riveted. I ought to just tell you, it’s been weeks, quite a number of weeks since even one person, anywhere in the world has left the Church. That tells me that the reports I’m getting that people are just riveted, and electrified are real (if you will), and there’s going to be much, much more again, including today (of course).

Dave Pack: Gleeful at all of the ministers dying in LCG and other COG's. Calls all those COG's "The Widow's Convention"

Dave thinks that the recent deaths of COG ministers are a sure sign that his god is displeased with all of the COG's.   The god of Armstrongism has always been a magical god, ready to wreck vengeance upon all the ministers and COG's that certain leaders disagree with.

I wanted to talk a little bit about something that relates to prophecy in a way that we would not normally talk about or think of. If a certain verse came to mind…that I’m going to show you in a moment…that, again, is another one of those that nobody ever understood, you certainly wouldn’t think of what I’m going to tell you. I’m just going to pass on something that is not pleasant, but, in a way, it can be, once I explain the whole picture.

For a number of days now, maybe a couple weeks, in a large splinter…One of the large groups; the one I was in when it was called Global…one person after another, one minister after another, has died in an unbelievably tragic way. It’s just unprecedented. For a long time, in some ways before we even got to the things that I’m going to mention, I often thought of that group as a place of death and tragedy in some ways.

Now, you might say that’s awfully strong…but there’s so much. There’s been murder. There’s been a vastness of the ministers that have died; been incapacitated. I’ve often called the group a widows’ convention…and there are a great many.

About two weeks ago, maybe just a little over two weeks ago, a senior minister—a man who was ordained an evangelist over there in Australia—died suddenly. A massive stroke—dead—and left Australia rudderless. They put his son in charge because all the other ministers in Australia have grave health problems, and they can’t put any of them in charge. I know these men, because I’ve been to Australia for the Feast 20 years ago. I helped this man come into Global. I remember meeting him back in 1973. He was a faithful man in many regards. Love him dearly, and suddenly—gone.

Another minister—this week—killed himself, and I knew him very well. The name is very personal to me. He was my first wife’s dear friend, beginning in 1960. She was in Milwaukee at age 14, and he was in the teenage group from Chicago, age 15. She would have graduated from college in’ 67; he in’ 66. Her childhood friend…I’m glad my wife is not here to learn how he took his own life.

When I got to meet him, it was a joy, because I’d heard so much about him, and how, when my first wife’s grandmother, who was from Germany, came to services one day in Chicago for a Holy Day, this man’s father…very German family…also from Germany, walked up to the two Germans, on a Holy Day at, I believe it was McCormick Place in Chicago in the early’ 60s, and said, Oh, are you a member of the Church? She said no, and he goes, Ahh, du bist ein Heide. In other words, “You’re a heathen.” [laughter] I’ve never forgotten that story. And I kidded this man about his father, and it was a fun story. There are many wonderful memories I have of this man.

I also helped him…even though he was older than I was by about four-, four-and-a-half years; five years ahead of me in college…I helped him come into the Global Church of God. Now, they’re both suddenly gone.

Another pastor, in the Philippines, dropped dead this week. Just dropped dead, in the same group—heart attack, massive heart attack—longtime pastor.

A member in this splinter was on the plane that went down—Egypt Air. A member in France left a grieving husband and son…and she’s never to be found. A terrorist act or not…I don’t know…but they were coming in…If you know the story, about two-and-a-half weeks ago. That’s a sad situation.

So, there’s four, right there, and I wanted to just to cover this. I don’t “speak to” every one of those people. I’m not about to say that, if you take your life…That’s why I don’t want to get into his name…that you’re just going to come up in the Kingdom. Because very difficult things are going to happen, and to suggest to people—who, really, in the end, don’t endure to the end—that’s all right, you can die this way or that……But, that’s okay. You take your life, even though you didn’t endure to the end, you can be in the Kingdom. Because you suggest, to other people, that if the going gets tough—check out, and you’ll be in the Kingdom.

There is a horrible, horrible message being portrayed about this…I hope the man, who was a friend of mine, was never converted; then maybe he could be someday. It’s a confusing time. One other thing that makes this man personal to me, and I guess I choose to share it with you, this particular minister took the Real Truth magazine for many years, right till his death. His name is still on our subscription list. He used my book on the trinity to help people in the splinters. The fact that the Worldwide Church of God introduced the trinity at a point was a big, big problem, in a particular way to this particular man, and he saw the book that I had written…and he’d studied the subject a lot…and he asked if he could have copies of the book.

There was certainly a very interested and zealous side of this man, and none of you would have ever known he was on the Real Truth list, but now that he is gone, I will make you aware of that. But one of the concerns that we have, brethren—and I’ve seen this—where we sort of judge in more than one way. We have to be very careful we do not judge that people don’t make it into the Kingdom. You have to be very careful. And I’m not doing that. But when you declare that someone is in the Kingdom, you have also overruled God in a different way. You have judged for Him.

We can understand sin. We can know people by their fruits, but when it comes to such matters, at the end of the day, where they do or don’t go, we stay out of it. I just bring that up, because there are so many different elements of the tragedy like this in an organization that’s full of tragedy, where sometimes that tragedy can personally touch us. And in this case, I’m very personally touched. I’m just glad my wife, again, is not here to know how her dear friend, from the early 1950s, ended.

It’s a very confusing time with some of these people. The person who went down in that plane…Is it random? It’s kind of like the tower of Siloam fell on certain ones, you recall Christ’s account—except you repent you shall all likewise perish. These were not chief sinners, Christ said. There are tragic things that happen in a world. Why does God let a woman like that go down in that plane, leaving a grieving husband, and son? It also happens in other splinter groups where a lot of people are dying, not just ministers. I listed both there. 

 

Dave Pack: HWA Being Resurrected So He Can Come Back and Flatten Jerusalem So Christ Can Build The New Jerusalem

Things are getting crazier and crazier in Wadsworth as Dave Pack sinks further into mental delusions. With over 8 decades of absolute absurdities uttered by Gerald Waterhouse, Rod Meredith, Gerald Flurry, Bob Thiel, James Malm and Herbert Armstrong; Dave Pack is putting them all to shame.  Decades of false prophecies and outright lies have resulted in the delusional mind of Dave Pack.

In a previous post I quoted Dave where he said Herbert Armstrong was going to be resurrected first, above almost all people in human history.  There is a reason for that.  Herb is coming back early so he can destroy Jerusalem who is the Great Whore of Revelation...according to Dave.  HWA's power will be so incredible that the will wipe Jerusalem and all of its inhabitants off the face of the earth so that the New Jerusalem can replace it...with Dave walking up the steps of the new temple to greet Jesus.  Of course this all happens after Dave and his members go to Jerusalem several years earlier and save it and its inhabitants from the wrath of Satan.   Sound crazy?  It only gets worse.

First, let me tell you what it is and why Mr. Armstrong is tied to it. That “mountain” is the seventh resurrection of the Holy Roman Empire that Jesus Christ comes and throws down, ultimately destroys. Remember, we go to Jerusalem and we save Jerusalem from all nations of the world gathered against it.

Now…I have to bring Daniel and Jeremiah and Ezekiel and more of Isaiah, coming in a sermon in four weeks, but that great mountain, which, in his life time, was probably more like the State of California going against him…It isn’t America…It isn’t any other country…But apparently, the man to whom God revealed the sixth resurrection of the Holy Roman Empire is going to be the one who personally deals with the seventh one. I know of no other way to explain it. He apparently is going to flatten it…and using others, no doubt, and angels. If there’s some other way to take it, I don’t know.

And then he’s going to bring forth the Headstone, as the Chief Administrator. I believe Elijah’s task…As I’ve explained…he does a different thing before and after. He works with the nations of Israel. I understand that. But he will then introduce—to the entire world—Jesus Christ. That’s why three verses after saving Judah, and I believe Mr. Armstrong…You can understand why he would have to come back well in advance—get back into context. And you can understand why, at the end of the book of Haggai—you’ve been chosen for a time when I shake the heavens and the earth—at the time Christ comes back to His Temple—and “I’m going to throw down the kingdoms, the thrones and the armies—the strengths of the heathen—and I have chosen you” in that context. It’s impossible to misunderstand.

And this becomes…By the way, now that you understand, there’s another great world government…not world government…we’ll call it European…but, the Vatican reaches all nations of the world with Catholics and others so that Mr. Armstrong…someone…is going to have to deal with and throw down and flatten. A great mountain that gets flattened.

It’s interesting. When you look at the description of Mr. Armstrong, there in the end of Haggai, and the time that God is bringing him back to take down…among many other things, to take down the seventh resurrection, you think of Isaiah 2 and Micah 4. What’s the biggest thing on God’s mind when He sets up His government? He’s going to teach the nations to learn no more war. They’re notgoing to learn war any more. He’s got to stop it. 

This week, the Russians announced a new missile called “The Son of Satan.” The whole world is trembling as they read about this weapon. One single missile can carry ten warheads. Each of those warheads over 1,300 times more powerful than what hit Hiroshima. And it can independently target…With a single missile, it said, we can wipe out France…Wednesday and Thursday, we can wipe out the entirety of Texas, one missile.

Each warhead—ten warheads—750 kilotons. Hiroshima was hit with 15…Multiply that times ten. 7,500 kilotons in a single missile and they think they can get it up to 20,000 in one missile that flies so fast you can’t track it or stop it…And Hiroshima was 15. So divide 15 into 7,500 kilotons and you get 1,333. The article I read said they think they can, eventually, get 20,000 kilotons on each of the ten warheads—not the missile. So, they can get 200,000 kilotons on one missile that will split ten ways. They’ll erase all life on Earth…That’s just this week.…And they have super systems. So, in Poland and Romania on Thursday and Friday…And the Russians are upset a missile defense system goes up. Shock of shocks…

But, there’s coming a world war of spectacular proportion. Whether nukes are ever allowed to be used, we’ll have to see. It will be church and state. Europe is going to have to respond. I will show you so much more. I know much more of the detail than I have time to tell you.

Dave claims that HWA is going to lead the armies of Dave's god as he destroys the kingdoms of the earth.  HWA should like this since he always thought he was something special and powerful.

Suffice to say, Christ knows “Before I get anywhere, we’re going to disarm” and Mr. Armstrong will be the one…As near as I can read and understand it, Mr. Armstrong will be the one that leads the way as God throws down all of the kingdoms, the thrones of the kingdoms and the strengths of the kingdoms of the heathen and disarms the world before the kingdom of God goes on to all that it will be in the first phases of the Kingdom.

There’s much more to cover. In weeks to come, I will show you more about how Mr. Armstrong was, in fact, right on several things we thought might be wrong, merely because the timing was wrong. Zerubbabel…You know…That he was Zerubbabel is just one example of things we have seen that were right. But if you don’t know about a resurrection of the dead…I mean, brethren, how am I going to know he was Zerubbabel? But, finally, God breaks the code like with so many other things.

We are in a very evil time—and I mean, a terrible time—and I don’t think we have long. That’s a different discussion. But, maybe you’ll enjoy thinking about that “three years” business. I will have a lot more to say in three weeks. 

Only Philadelphia Christians In Falsely Named Continuing Church of God To Be Protected In Tribulation

While Almost Arrested, Elisha, Elijah, Joshua, Amos, Doubly Blessed, Mayan Authority, Dreamweaver, Apostle, Prophet, Witness Bob Thiel was gallivanting around Serbia for his "feast" he was posting various topics of doom and gloom.  One day he was discussing how "scared" people are to walk around in the dark, of cyber-theft and public speaking. 

California-based Chapman University questioned 1,500 people from across the United States to reach its conclusions. The survey found that the top five things that scare Americans the most are: walking alone at night, becoming the victim of identity theft, Internet safety, being the victim of a mass/random shooting, and public speaking.

Fear is the main thing that keeps the Almost Arrested Doubly Blessed Apostle in business.   He tells his followers to be prudent and be alert because all kinds of hell will soon be happening.  If you are not awake and following him works for word then you will be unaware and you will suffer.  It then is apparently YOUR fault!

Of course, natural and other disasters are coming and it is wise to take physical and spiritual steps to deal with them. Yet, many with fears and worries take few, if any, effect steps to deal with such matters. 

As far as taking proper preparation goes, the Bible teaches the following:

3 A prudent man forsees evil and hides himself, But the simple pass on and are punished. (Proverbs 22:3) 

That does not mean that there will be no difficulties, but that proper steps should be taken. Jesus said:

43 But know this, that if the master of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched and not allowed his house to be broken into. 44 Therefore you also be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect. (Matthew 24:43-44).

So brethren, listen to the Almost Arrested Prophet and his wise words, follow him and you WILL be protected!

People need to take proper spiritual steps now.

Trials and tribulations are coming, but those who will heed the call to be Philadelphian Christians in this age can be protected from the coming hour of trial that will come upon the earth 

Please consider your spiritual state, no matter where you may live. Just because you profess Jesus Christ and may keep the commandments does NOT mean that you will be protected. Only the Philadelphian Christians are promised protection and they have a different focus on truly doing the work (Matthew 24:14; 28:19-20) in these end times.

Rod Meredith Suffered Great Trauma When He Was 12 Years Old...All Thanks To His Mother

Meredith's deep seated aversion to sexuality had to have been formed prior to this incident when he was 12 years old.  His mind was already looking at sex as perverse.

I had dance classes all through elementary school and at no time was it sexualized with panting boys lusting after girls.  Even dance classes at Ambassador did not lead to coeds fornicating in the Student Center mail room or the Frontier Room.

"Even back in the 1940s, my mother and her friends - no doubt like millions of mothers all across the United States - had pushed me and dozens of my classmates to attend "dancing school" - where we were taught to dance face to face and chest to chest with young girls barely entering puberty. We were just little children who wanted to play baseball and "kick the can." God does not forbid dancing, of course, but He does command us to "flee sexual immorality" (1 Corinthians 6:18). Why did our mothers push us into the kind of semi-romantic, semi-sexual behavior involved in that kind of dancing when we were only twelve years old?"

Uh...

"We were so embarrassed at holding these girls in our arms that we simply took off running - not knowing what else to do with ourselves. It would be several years before we were truly ready for such "romantic" involvements even in an innocent way. Why were our mothers pressuring us into this kind of precocious behavior?"

Uh...

Rod's childhood was traumatised by dancing lessons at age twelve? Rod - now a septuagenarian - still has unresolved issues with his mother?

As they say, "who'd have thunk it?"

Memories from the old Alumni Discussion board

Refuting Dave Pack's Irrefutable Fallacies: : Epilogue

David C Pack: "Everyone who has challenged me has either died, been seriously injured or has been eliminated from the work."

The following appeared in the 1985 issue of the Ambassador Report. Thirty some years later and Dave Pack still has not changed.

David Pack's Reign of Terror 

On the night of Roxanne Elliott's death, one of the last people - probably the very last one - Lois Elliott phoned before the tragedy was WCG minister David Pack, pastor of the Buffalo (North), New York congregation.. Exactly what was said, we don't know. At least not yet. That information may well come out should Lois Elliott ever recover sufficiently to stand trial. What is remarkable, however, is how often Pack's name seems to appear in conjunction with tragedies in the WCG. For a number of years now, no WCG minister's name has appeared more often in letters written to the Report complaining of ministerial abuse. 

Pack, a burly 6-foot, 5-inch Ambassador College graduate known locally for his authoritarian style, has so incensed some in his flock that a group have circulated an open letter detailing his abuses and have called for his removal. The letter describes Pack's ministerial leadership as a "Reign of Terror." On the cover page, addressed to WCG headquarters leaders, they wrote: "David's power-crazed quest to totally dominate the mind, body, and spirit of church members has not been done in a corner and has been done clearly in view of all to see at headquarters in Pasadena." 

On the following 13 pages of their letter the allegations about Pack read like a horror story. The authors contend that Pack constantly intimidates members, uses threats and mind-control methods, is given to extreme emotional outbursts, is highly political, believes in winning at all cost, has disfellowshipped members for trivial faults, prescribes diets while "playing M.D.," insists on being addressed as Mr. Pack, enjoys wearing skimpy, skin-tight shorts to sporting events, has actually worn a wolf costume to church socials, enjoys putting down women, and told one married woman with children, "It would be better for you to shack up one night with a man than wear makeup." 

The letter quotes Pack as having said, "Everyone who has challenged me has either died, been seriously injured or has been eliminated from the work." And, "God backs me even if I am wrong." 

On page 7 the authors made this statement to Pack (emphasis ours):

Doesn't it bother you that while you were in charge of the Rochester and Syracuse area there were three suicides? One can only wonder why they chose to kill themselves while you were their main advisor in the area. Perhaps you suggested to one or more of them that they would in no way make it into the Kingdom of God.... A statement such as, "You are no longer in the body of Christ," could have caused one to give up and kill himself.

The above quote was written well before the Elliott family tragedy. Some who knew little Roxanne and her mother Lois Elliott wonder if it might have been a prophecy.

Ambassador Report, June 1985