COGWA on determining what is a counterfeit church

A rational person would think that Church of God groups would be really cautious about writing articles on how to determine what is a counterfeit church, especially considering how fractured the Church of God movement is, with every single one of the groups preaching a different message.  But no, they have not learned to keep their mouths shut.  Every single one of them, in their self-righteous glory, think they have the inside track and everyone else is wrong, even other COG's.

The latest entry in the "one true church" schtick is Church of God a Worldwide Association (COGWA).  Clyde Kilough has an article in the latest Discern magazine, How to Spot a Counterfeit Church.

What would you do, how would you feel, if you discovered your religion was counterfeit? Most of us have been “given” our religion by our parents, or maybe we “shopped” for one we liked. Is it possible that, in all innocence, we possess a fake belief?

According to Jesus, it is!

When asked about signs of His coming and “the end of the age,” the first thing He said was, “Take heed that no one deceives you. For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many” (Matthew 24:3-5).

Watch out, He warned—there are a lot of religious scammers!

Actually, it was already happening in His day, and several times He took religious leaders to task for leading people astray. How did it happen? By substituting fraudulent traditions for the truth of God!

Matthew 15:6-9 records Jesus’ hot words for them: “Thus you have made the commandment of God of no effect by your tradition. Hypocrites! Well did Isaiah prophesy about you, saying: ‘These people draw near to Me with their mouth, and honor Me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me. And in vain they worship Me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’”

The Pharisees’ tactics are still common practice—because they still work!

We see this at work today in the likes of James Malm and his Wiccan sidekick Constance who envisions herself as a discerner of the Word, in Dave Pack, Bob Thiel, Gerald Flurry, and most of the other church leaders in the Church of God today.  Pharisaical laws, damaging legalism and outright lies make these leaders the epitome of the Pharisaical tactics mentioned above.

The apostle Paul stood amazed at how fast it happened. “I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel, which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ” (Galatians 1:6-7).

How serious was this? He twice repeated this in verses 8-9: “But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed.”

Paul further cautioned, “The time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables” (2 Timothy 4:3-4).

And in perhaps the strongest words possible, Paul warned, “For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into apostles of Christ. And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works” (2 Corinthians 11:13-15).

For well over 80 years now, the Church of God has been filled with deceitful workers and hundreds of false apostles and prophets.  Every single one of them liars and deceivers of the brethren.  The sad part is that they all put on the air of righteousness and members fall for their vile schtick and get wrapped up in their lies.  Look at the followers of Thiel, Malm, Pack, Flurry and the others.  Given the track record of upstart false prophets in the  COG, these men should never have a single follower, but they do.  They try to transform themselves into workers of righteousness, yet they are agents of darkness.   This includes Clyde Kilough and his fellow workers of darkness. He and his team of men threw a tantrum and split off from United Church of God, preaching their own version of what they claim is the truth. They imagined themselves as teachers and holders of the keys to the kingdom, so much so that they formed their own group and yet they preach a different message than any of the other COG's.

Kilough then writes this:

Look at the thousands of denominations in the world today representing differing interpretations of what Christ did and said. Isn’t that a problem? Why doesn’t that raise red flags and make people question the authenticity of their beliefs?

Look at the hundreds and hundreds of Churches of God in the world today, representing differing interpretations of what Christ did and said when they decide to mention him. Yet, the majority of COG members do not see this as a problem.  Somehow they all see themselves as unified by some illogical thread. They never stop to examine the authenticity of what they claim to believe.

Some say all roads lead to heaven, and we’ll end up in the same place. True or false? This was the same Jesus who promised, “I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it” (Matthew 16:18). If you believe that, it raises some hard questions:

• If He promised it would never die, then wouldn’t the Church Jesus built be out there somewhere today? Is there a true Church?

Most Church of God leaders and members have never really studied church history.  The only version of it they know is what their respective church leader has spoon feed them as the "authentic" version. Any real student of church history knows the fascinating story of the growth of Christianity and the church through the centuries.  It has never died out nor did it need to be restored after being lost by an impotent god for 1,900 years.

• He didn’t say, “I will build My churches” (plural). Would Christ claim that they are all His, when the Bible says, “For God is not the author of confusion” (1 Corinthians 14:33)?

If Kilough and other church members truly believe that "God is not the author of confusion" then why are there 500-700 different splinter Churches of God?  Why did they contribute to the mess by starting yet another group? Is that not confusion?

• Many have said, “All these churches can’t be wrong!” But can they all be right?

Surely all of the Churches of God cannot be wrong?  Which one is right?  Every single one of them picks and chooses which teachings they want to keep and thus setting them apart from the next COG.

• If there are counterfeit churches, ministers and teachings, how can one know which is genuine?

Which COG leader is right? Thiel?  Malm? Pack? Kubik? FLurry?  Are they genuine or are they liars and deceivers of the brethren?

A search for truth leads us directly to another key issue of discerning counterfeit doctrines.

Toward the end of the first century the apostle John was waging a battle for the truth against forces that were intent on changing the doctrines and practices of the Church. Enemies were not trying to create a new religion. They were trying to change the Church Christ had built into something else.

Every time a Church of God splits off this is exactly what has happened.They pick and choose which doctrines they want to keep and reshape the church into what they want it to be.

John clearly identified one of their main targets—the commandments. “Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. He who says, ‘I know Him,’ and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him” (1 John 2:3-4). In verse 6 he continued, “He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.”

No Church of God leader or member has ever kept the 10 Commandments or any other other commandments.  It is an impossibility.  To say they do is to deliberately lie.  They cannot be humanly all kept.  The Jesus they all claim to follow has said over and over that they cannot do it and won't do it.

How did He walk? He kept the 10 Commandments, which have been in effect since the creation of man! John was confirming Christ’s teaching, “If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love. … You are My friends if you do whatever I command you” (John 15:10, 14).

Kilough, Malm, Thiel and all the others have never kept the commandments.  When they deny the one they claim to follow and place the law above that ever so inconvenient dude they are not "abiding in My love."

People can say they “abide in Christ,” but do they keep the commandments? That’s the test, isn’t it? If you are looking for the Church Jesus built, start looking for those who are striving to walk as He walked. Sad to say, “commandment-keeping” immediately crosses a huge number off the list.

Seriously? Are we to look at the hundreds and hundreds of self-appointed prophets and leaders as followers of a "Jesus" they know nothing about?  The 10 commandments are no more a "test" than the Sabbath is. Because these men all deny the Christ they claim to follow, they are immediately crossed off the list.

What is the truth? Are the many nonbiblical doctrines and practices we see today—indisputably and easily proven to have been brought into Christianity long after Christ established it—a sign of genuine or counterfeit Christianity?

What is the truth in the COG? Every group has hundreds and hundreds of nonbiblical doctrines and practices. The Philadelphia Church of God is different than United Church of God, which is different than the Restored Church of God, which is different than Church of God International, which is different than Intercontential Church of God, which is different than COGWA, which is different than "continuing" Church of God.

Where does truth reside now? The Churches of God love to mock the different divisions in Christianity and even call them "so-called" Christians, yet their own church is so fractured now that it is irrelevant with none of them doing any worthwhile work that is changing lives.

Where are the fruits of the spirit?  Where are the good works? Where is Jesus?

Ron Weinland Struggling to Keep His Rapidly Dwindling Flock Submissive

Ever since Ron Weinland's epic 2008 prophetic failure, he has been unable to keep his flock together.  Then while Weinland spent 3 1/2 years in prison it imploded even faster with his loony wife and daughter masquerading as evangelists.  Members refused to submit to the bumbling duo. Now, in 2017 after being released from prison, the failed prophet is having to deal with even more widespread issues in his little group.

So I marvel there are still people out there cheating in tithing, cheating God, lying to God, who don't send in holy day offerings. It's not about the money coming in; it's about the fact that we don't obey God. I hope we have the picture! Slowly but surely all those are being brought to the surface, saying sayonara, auf wiedersehen, dos vedanya, because you do not belong here. If you can lie to God like that you do not belong here. Then how many other things are hidden, that people think are hidden that are not really hidden? God knows and sees everything in our lives and either we are repenting of sin and fighting every day of our lives and placing things where they need to be in the sense of value and appreciation of what God is offering us or we're not. 

Apparently, his god is striking down his members who don't tithe, cheat his god, lie to his god and don't send in their holy day offerings.  The magical god of Armstrongism strikes again!

And God knows. God will bring every, every single one of those things to the surface. No one will get by. Even if it just means death. See, I may not know and learn all of them, but God will take care of it, of those that aren't brought to the surface and aren't dealt with. You just die, not live into the Millennium. It's as simple as that.

Weinerdude also has to deal with his member's bickering and grumbling at each other and at the ministry.

You know, I'm amazed at why people can't get along in God's Church! And this goes on and on and on from area to area to area – it just pops up too often. What excuse do we have that we can't swallow our pride and call it what it is and just shut our mouths if we have to and don't worry about how we think we're treated by someone else? Just swallow the pride and get along! That's the most important thing. We don't have to have things our way! Because that's where conflict comes from. It's when we want things to be our way. "And when it's not my way I get my feelings hurt! Boo hoo hoo, someone isn't treating me fair!" I'm sorry, but I'm sick of this stuff in God's Church. I am sick, sick, sick of it! Because that isn't in God's Church! That isn't the mind of God that He's given to us. That's not the spirit of God that reacts to people in that way. 

I'll just tell you, almost every area of the Church of God right now that we travel to there's friction. Sometimes under the surface a little bit here and there, but there's still friction where people are struggling to get along. And I think, why? Who is it I can't get along with? Who is it that can't get along with me? I'm a nice guy. I'm kidding! Well, I try to be. I try to be just. I try to be right before God. I try to treat people fairly and when correction is needed I give the correction, too, with the hope and desire that people will change. It’s shepherding, loving God's people. Why can't we love God's people? Who of God's people do we not really love? Because if we're not treating them right we don't love them. Do we get the picture? If we're not treating somebody right in God's Church we don't love them, if we want them to do certain things a certain way to make us happier. 

People have been leaving his cult in droves and a lot of it was over his ordaining his loony wife and money laundering daughter to the rank of evangelist and for promoting his wife to a "two witnesses" status.  Can you imagine these two crackpots preaching in the streets of Jerusalem?

They think it's because of women being ordained. I think of one that just comes to mind because some got upset. I think of some in Cincinnati, some leadership at the Church even at that particular time became jealous of specific individuals that were ordained, and those who were being worked with more and more. Jealousy because they didn't love them like they should have in the first place that began to bring something to the surface. It wasn't that they could say, "Oh, I don't think women should be ordained" and be righteous, and they're going to leave God's Church now because “such and such” shouldn't have been ordained and women shouldn't be ordained and whatever it might be. Something will come along to try people. That's the way it's always been in God's Church. Amazing! 

"We Shall Not All Die" , But So Far We All Have and Most Likely Will.

It's very difficult for humans to say the words "He/she/they died." What a marvelous number of euphemisms for death we have. We pass on, croak, kick the bucket, go home, expire, succumb, leave, meet our maker, go to our reward, get wasted, check out, eternally rest, are a goner, end, bite the dust, get liquidated, terminated and annihilated. We give up the ghost, make the change, transition, get mertilized, go to to the other side, fall asleep, get taken, rubbed and snuffed out. We depart, transcend and buy the farm. We are feeling no pain, lose the race, cash in, cross Jordan and go with the angels. We get done in, translate into glory, return to the dust, wither away, give up, take the long sleep and a dirt bath. It can be curtains, a dropped body, six feet under and out of our misery. We find everlasting peace, new lives the great beyond, ride into the sunset and that's all we wrote. But in plain fact, we are dead.

I was told when I got glasses "you are deteriorating at the appropriate rate Dennis."  Great....

All of religion is predicated on the fact that we have to go somewhere after death. "We" being everything from our spirit and energy to our mind and ethereal body. We like it better if there is a good place for the nice ones of us and a bad one for the jerks. Although the idea of reincarnation lends itself to allowing everyone their spot after having learned lessons along the way many times over.

Western Churches spend your lifetime convincing you that their understanding is THE only understanding of what happens when we die and usually provide you with a program whereby you can leave your worldly goods, you know the ones they told you in sermons not to store up on, to them. I have seen many a family outside the particular denomination of the one who "went home" have to face the fact that all the goodies went to their church and not their family.

Let's make a rule that if a person gives a church their stuff after they die, and sons or daughters protest, the Church has to give it back to the family. This will help the church to practice what they preach and give that which actually belongs to a family to the family it actually belongs to. Beware of Churches who have a program for you to "honor God with your death," or "Your will, a way for you to continue giving after you die," program. The money given to the Church will be mis-spent and it would be more satisfying to have your kids mis-spend it than your church. Amen

It's funny how if you ask someone about quantum physics or how life works, it's such an unknowable mystery in the final analysis, at least for now. But ask a religious person about what happens after death, and pfffft...that's easy. We go to heaven, they go to hell, we get reincarnated often, we are deader than dead, we wait in the grave until Jesus returns, we rise in a physical body, we rise in a spiritual "body", we this and that as if they knew and the truth is that they don't. Westerners would never question the Bible as knowing what happens after death even though one can find all of the above mentioned in one form or another in the pages of the Bible.

Quantum physics now speculates we all simply live in a simulation for only supreme programmer knows why.

Like Humans, the Biblical understanding of death evolved into what we see in the Evangelical Christian Church today.

The Catholic Church has gotten good at adding new places the dead go, such as unsaved babies, or the unborn or the not quite saved types, but it's all a crap shoot. Because we can come up with questions like "well what kind of God would throw an innocent child in hell for not knowing.....", we have to figure out new holding pens for such categories of people. They are not real mind you, but they help us cope.

Missionaries rush to save the lost before they die while admitting, in some circles that if they left them ignorant, a loving God would automatically translate them into heaven upon death. I mean, they can't help it they were born in New Guinea or the Great Plains.

 Geronimo was asked by the General who hunted him down and imprisoned him in Florida if he wanted to go to heaven when he died? Geronimo asked if the General was also going to be there? "Why of course," came the response met by as simple "Then no" by Geronimo. Hell would indeed be for many having to spend eternity with those that drove them nuts in this life!

I mean, do you really want to spend eternity closer than ever to all the people in your church, including the same pastor day and night forever! I think not! Heaven just might seem like one big endless potluck of boring people who are still pretending to be what they never were back on earth. It would be an eternal obligatory Thanksgiving or Christmas with the relatives that most never wanted to attend anyway!

Nope, if I get to go to heaven, please God, let there be quiet places where no one can find me and those I want to be around. You know, kinda like we can do down here if we choose.

I saw a lot of death as a minister. Sometimes it was after the fact long enough to just bury somone in a nice funeral service in a nice setting. Sometimes I found myself standing at the edge of a river while they searched for a lost one or taken to a morgue to roll the dead body of a child or friend out of a drawer for a private family look. I Even dug a grave once on a farm while we waited for family to arrive for a quick same day funeral and burial. I've picked up the cemains, ugh what a word, of people I had just talked to a few days earlier, now reduced to about 10 lbs. of gray sand. I have transported the neatly wrapped body of a newborn to another city in the backseat of my car, as the couple could not afford for the funeral home to do it.

Once I had visited a mother, just socially, who spent much of the visit recounting the talents, skills, and beauty of daughter, which is normal when a parent is well pleased. I specifically remember thinking on the way home "how would she cope if she lost that daughter, who was the center of all the mom lived for? When I got home, the phone was ringing and I was returning to the hospital where this young woman had just been brought fatally run down at 18 miscrossing a street. Tough stuff. I lost a nephew to a train that could not get his attention while he was wearing his walkman. I lost my two brother in laws suddenly in life.

The point seems to live in the moment, staying both out of the past of our lives, where we tend to store our anger and hurt, and also the future, where we store our anxiety and all that is unknowable. No one knows what happens at death. Just to say that is to stir the pot of religious surety. I know, no one but YOU knows  because you read it somewhere.

There are some great stories of past lives recalled by some with uncanny detail. Hmmm, could be.

Even the Bible gives the account of the blind man who caused the disciples to ask if the man's blindness was the fault of his parents or HIS own sin, "that he was BORN blind." We at least have to admit there is room there to question that if one is born blind due to sin, the sin must have taken place in a previous life. No other explanation is possible. Some in the early church believed in reincarnation. General George Patton was famous for his knowing where he had fought as a Roman Soldier in a previous life, while fighting again during WWII in Europe. He wasn't kidding and no one made fun of him either.

There are stories of those who have left their bodies in near death experiences only to return and recount the experience in detail that only a, well "Ghost" could give. They got recalled to finish their lives evidently and everyone who experiences such a thing never again fears death. Well worth the experience if only for that little peace of mind, I'd say.

Stories abound of those who were given organ transplants donated by those who have died, only to mysteriously acquire the deceased's taste in foods, books or familiarity with topics never studied in their own lives. This would give credence to the idea tha cellular memory can be passed on. Whoa..pretty inspiring stuff and not just a little bit spooky.

Crass religions make big bucks off the masses who need to purchase their places in the Kingdom of God. I remember once shoveling a drive buried in feet of snow for a woman who then paid me in Catholic indulgences. They gave me a full 90 days less in Purgatory. I told her I was Presbyterian. She smiled and closed the door. I almost shoved the snow back into the drive.

I'm glad that so many can be so sure they know what happens at death. Some just know because they read it in the Bible never thinking that even that book is just another attempt by humans to figure this out. Some just know it's true because it's "true for me." Some feel that it just has to be true or what's the point. One cannot just die for nothing after learning all this stuff in life and having all these experiences.

When one of "our own" i.e. Church related person, dies, devil or demon, we hardly know what to say. We tend to say nice things about those we somewhat agree with or at least did not hurt us or others along the way, such as Mr. Ian Boyne recently. We always know what to say when those we revile for their narcissism and pain inflicted pass.  Mostly we say nothing and let others handle that publically. But quietly, we mostly just wonder what will it be like when we get to that time or how that person might have felt in their final realizations that it was over.

It is the search that is interesting in life, not the finding.  Those who think they have found it all , neatly packaged and easy to understand if they are "called" or "chosen" are cruising on pious convictions with marginal information at best.  Nothing is as easy as or clear as Church of God types make it seem....

Grumpy COG False Prophet Upset Over Philadelphia PA's Mummers Parade

Bobby Downer is back with his prophetic bloomers all in a twist today over the New Years Day Mummers Parade in Philadelphia PA. Bitter Bob Thiel says all of the men. women and children who dress in costumes to have fun on a cold winter day are all worshippers of Saturnalia.  I'm pretty sure Almost-ordained Bob imagines them sacrificing those children on fires afterwards.

Of course, those who have looked into the whole ‘Christmas/New Years’ season realize that Jesus was not born on December 25th and that the dates and many observances were modifications from pagan practices. Mummers parades seem to be an offshoot of that. 

Those who have looked into the Bible realize that neither Saturnalia, Mummers, Mithras, or Christmas observances are biblical. Because of their connections to paganism and distortions to God’s plan as revealed in His Holy Days, they should not be kept by Christians. 

Early Christians did not even celebrate birthdays of any type, and certainly none to honor sun-gods or other pagan deities.

Almost-arrested Bob also had this to say about Christmas the Church of God Feast of Tabernacles:

In ancient Babylon, the feast of the Son of Isis (Goddess of Nature) was celebrated on December 25. Raucous partying, gluttonous eating and drinking, and gift-giving were traditions of this feast.

I have seen more raucous partying, gluttonous eating and drinking and gift giving at the Feast of Tabernacles than I have ever seen people in my neighborhood or at church do.  Having worked ministerial dining rooms in Pasadena and other Feast sites I can testify that the COG ministry LOVES its alcohol! 

Elijah Amos Thiel needs to get this own house in order before he starts condemning others for perceived imperfections.  Lying that God has set him apart from all other COG's to start a new church that has the only inside track to salvation or Petra, is far worse than some playful fun on New Years Day.

Jamaica Gleaner: The Miracle of Ian Boyne

Ian and his family

See: Ian Boyne...30 Years of Profile

"Boyne was excited to share the discovery that ‘Profile’ may possibly have the distinction of being the second longest programme with a single host in the world."

"With ‘Profile’, Boyne emphasises that especially in today’s crazy and chaotic society where selfishness and self serving individuals are almost the norm, people need an outlet where they can see the other side. Where they can witness stories of individuals who are philanthropic; who beat their demons; who rise about their circumstance and are winners in their own right and chosen field of endeavour. This is why after three decades, ‘Profile” still has such immense appeal."

Editorial | The Miracle Of Ian Boyne

Published:Tuesday | December 19, 2017 | 12:02 AM

A week ago, having emerged from an induced coma and appearing to be on the mend from a heart attack, Ian Boyne, a man of deep religious faith, declared himself to be a miracle. It was for the fact that he was alive and looking forward to return to his job as a journalist.

Mr Boyne, 60, died yesterday. Some people might claim that he spoke prematurely. But from the perspective of a secularist, he may, indeed, have been a miracle - in the sense of being a man of deep and varied intellectual interests, with a capacity for sustained and concentrated effort which, for more than 40 years, he shared with Jamaicans through his journalism.

There were two critical elements to Ian Boyne's journalism, especially in the columns he wrote for The Sunday Gleaner and the discussion programmes he hosted on television: he was laden with facts and, generally, was open to debate. He may have been intellectually vain, as some will no doubt argue, but his larger aim was to stimulate discourse, hoping it would redound to the benefit of Jamaica.

Ian Boyne was not partisan, but ideological, in the sense that he brought to his journalism a specific, and, in many respects, a distinct perspective. At one level, he is a product of the times in which he came of age: the ideological period of the 1970s, when the Left and the Right contended for primacy.

Of a fashion, he was of the Left. His pronouncements were empathetic to a state that intervened on behalf of its most vulnerable citizens, and against the notion that the market had all the best answers to the organisation of an economy. So, in recent years, he often inveighed against the Washington Consensus.

But his was an ideology that wasn't the outcome merely of rational, secular empiricism. Mr Boyne, too, was a Christian scholar and pastor who ran a church. His viewpoints were shaped as much by the Bible as by the writings of the philosophers, humanists, ethicists, foreign-policy analysts, and others he so readily imbibed and often quoted in his columns, which often elicited playful ribbing from follow columnist Gordon Robinson, who conferred on his the sobriquet, 'Booklist Boyne'.

Further down in the article this was said:

...he, for 30 years, produced a weekly television programme in which he interviewed Jamaicans who had mostly risen from poverty or other adversity to positions of prominence and power. Critics will perhaps claim that some of these interviews were filled with saccharine sentimentality, but there can be little doubt that they were mostly uplifting and offered hope.

As a theologian whose entry in biblical disquisition started in Herbert Armstrong's Worldwide Church of God and the fragmentations therefrom, Ian Boyne was willing to debate the worth and value of Christianity - and other religions - in a secular world and to put these on show in his television, programme, 'Religious Hardtalk'.

Mr Boyne had a passion for Jamaican music of the 1960s and '70s and could hold erudite arguments about the artistes of the day, even as he vehemently decried the nihilism of the lyrics of many of today's dancehall performers, who, he believed, contributed to the coarsening of Jamaican society.

Another side of Ian Boyne is that he was mostly self-taught. He would have been a fine subject of one his 'Profile' interviews, to explore the basis of his catholic interests and from whence the will, or miracle, for their achievement.

It is a rare thing for a follower of a person with ties to Armstrongism to receive such public praise.  No minister or church leader has ever been "willing to debate the worth of and value of Christianity - and other religions..."   I wish I had been able to have more contact with Ian than I did.

Ian Boyne Dies!

The shocking news from Jamaica is that Ian has died.  Ian was the only COG minister who had the integrity to talk across the aisle with those he disagreed with and also had the wherewithal to acknowledge that Armstrongism was fatally flawed and needed to be reinvented it is to survive.  He knew firsthand how Thiel, Flurry, Pack, Malm and others were ripping members lives apart with their legalism and outright lies.

I had several discussions with Ian over the last couple of years and we were both surprised at the things we agreed upon.  Many times he said he was almost getting to the point of being borderline agnostic at times.  Eh was widely read in his interests in books which included books on atheism, evolution, cults and other issues.

RJRNews had this to say:

Ian Boyne is dead

Veteran Journalist Ian Boyne is dead.

Mr. Boyne died this morning at the University Hospital of West Indies in St. Andrew.

Mr. Boyne was hospitalised earlier this month and was released shortly after.

He was host of Profile and Religious Hardtalk, aired on our sister station Television Jamaica (TVJ), as well as a columnist for the Sunday Gleaner.

In his early years, Ian Boyne worked with the Jamaica Information Service (JIS), then known as the Agency for Public Information (API) in the seventies.

He also worked for various public sector agencies, serving the Government of Jamaica in the area of public information. 

He returned to the JIS at the turn of the century and at the time of his death was the agency's Deputy Executive Director. There, he hosted the agency's interview programme, Issues and Answers.

Ian Boyne was perhaps best known as host of Television Jamaica's long running  interview show, Profile, which started in the early 80s on the predecessor station, JBC TV, and for his weekly column in the Sunday Gleaner.

His interview with eight time Olympic Gold Medalist Usain Bolt is one of his most memorable on Profile. 

A decade and a half ago, he was asked to host Religious Hardtalk, a new programme on RJR94 FM. 

Shock And Grief ... Social Media Reactions To Ian Boyne's Passing

There has been an outpouring of shock and grief on social media following the passing of veteran journalist Ian Boyne.‎Boyne passed away in hospital this morning after a brief illness. 

He had only recently suffered a series of heart attacks and was at home recovering but had to be readmitted on the weekend. 

Here are some of the comments posted on Twitter: 

@AndrewHolnessJM: It is with deep sadness that I acknowledge the death of veteran journalist and a true friend Ian Boyne. This is a shock to me. I will make a statement soon. 

@karendmadden: Even Jamaica's dancehall referenced Ian Boyne. Man crossed every walk of life. 

Cordel Green: "He held a neutral space in a polarised environment. He leaves a legacy which will serve as a solid guidance and foundation of reliable quality and substance."
@VicMelhadoDaley: A phenomenal journalist and legend has passed but has left a great legacy behind; may his soul RIP. #Condolences to his family.  

@kryticalmind: Waking up to such disheartening news about Mr. Boyne. He fed families with inspiration through the profiles of Jamaican and Black Excellence. Immeasurable impact on the psyche and aspirations of many, including my own. A life well spent and well lived, Ian.  

@yaneekpage: I can’t even process the magnitude of this loss for Jamaica. Devastated. Rest well Ian Boyne  More here: Jamaica Gleaner

David C Pack's Coffee Con Game

For many years now we have heard from former Restored Church of God members and from Dave Pack himself on how everything is "in common" because as God's only true representative on earth, he and he alone is the rightful heir to all money, property, retirement income and anything else he can con people out of.

Thanks to the constant flow of money into his compound he lives rent-free in a church-owned home, drives a church-owned car (on the rare occasions he says he drives off the compound) and receives a large salary.  With all of the money flowing in he has been able to build the most superfantabulous campus the world has ever laid eyes on.  The place reeks of money, but don't tell that to the employees though.

Most corporations, churches, and small businesses provide coffee, tea, and snacks for the employees as a thank-you for services well done.  Dave Pack takes this one step further though, he does provide coffee for the employees BUT charges EVERYONE $15.00 a month to partake.  With 20 employees that would take in over $300.00 a month in coffee taxes.  20 people do NOT drink that much coffee and tea or use that many sugars, cream, stirrers, napkins, etc.  Even if you don't drink his coffee you still required to pay the coffee tax.

Can Dave Pack truly be this big of a cheapskate?

I'm just glad I don't have to WASTE 15 dollars a month on the RCG mandatory coffee fund anymore. That alone was one of the things that made me realize these people were money hungry. Every single employee was forced to pay 15 dollars a month whether they were a drinker of coffee or not for this fund that most likely always had excess cash left. 

The coffee tastes burnt and you got basic cream, honey, and coffee. At my current Job, they offer more than seven varieties of coffee and even more varieties of creams, sweeteners, and toppings. They are constantly boosting employees moral by allowing us to matter, and express our ideas on how to make the company more efficient, they celebrate us, give bonuses as they are able, pay into our health. Guess what, employees add value to this company. 

At RCG, people pay 1st tithe, 2nd tithe, 3rd tithe, tithe of tithe, excess second tithe must be returned after FOT, offerings, coffee fund (Employees only), spokesman club fees, members are exhorted to pay into the funds for socials, must participate in fundraising which is never to the outside world but between congregations and on and on and on. This is all truly exacerbated when you work directly at rcg and are expected to wear, suits, ties, oxford shoes, maintain a clean haircut look, shave, have crisp ironed dressed shirts and shined shoes, eat healthily, maintain a decent vehicle and clean home, host for visiting members, all WHILE MAKING MINIMUM WAGE OR VERY CLOSE TO IT. 

Then employees are spoken down to and made small in staff meetings and no one likes to raise their hand and offer suggestions or express concerns because the "baby face" "golden boys" "yes men" who do nothing but gossip about each others counsel sessions with members will pounce on you and correct you for appearing to cause "DIVISION". 

I CANT HELP BUT POUR OUT MY HEART WHEN I SEE THESE POSTS. THIS PLACE IS THE TRUE SWAMP THAT NEEDS TO BE CLEANED UP. 

I feel pain for the good people still there being tossed to and from like chaff in the wind. 

SaveSave

LCG Doug Winnail: LCG possesses the "True Truth" while all others reject truth in varying degrees

Isn't it awesome to have the inside track to "the truth" and to be able to say that everyone else only knows it to varying degrees?  Of course every single COG group out there claims to possess the only real version of the truth while they label all other groups to be rejectors of truth. 

I think after the horrendous track record the Church of God has had in claiming possession of "the truth" and the damage it has left in its wake, that the various COG groups would be careful in making such proclamations, especially considering their version of truth has led to the hundreds and hundreds of splits.  Truth is a rare commodity in all of the splinter groups in 2018

Hold On to The Truth: The Apostle Paul admonished Christians to “Prove all things: hold fast that which is good [right and true]” (1 Thessalonians 5:21, KJV). David wrote “Your law is truth” and “all Your commandments are truth” (Psalm 119:142, 151). The apostles warned that people would leave the truth, resist the truth, turn their ears away from the truth and speak evil of the truth (2 Timothy 2:18; 3:8; 4:4; 2 Peter 2:2) because they did not love the truth (2 Thessalonians 2:10). The history of the early Church shows how this happened as the truth of the gospel was lost and replaced by pagan ideas and practices. However, these same practices are being repeated today. I recently visited the East Texas community of Big Sandy that was once the home of Ambassador College and a Church congregation of over 1,000 members. Today, the college is gone, and in this small town of 1,300 people, there are about a half dozen little congregations that once met together on the campus of Ambassador College. These congregations have either retained or rejected the truth in various degrees—just as Jesus prophesied (Matthew 24:4-5). To avoid being deceived and led astray, we need to follow Paul’s admonition and “continue in the things which you have learned and been assured of, knowing from whom you have learned them” (2 Timothy 3:13-14). Brethren, let’s prove and hold on to the Truth!
Have a profitable Sabbath,
Douglas S. Winnail

Dave Pack His Dirty Secret

More Upheaval In the COG: Pastor Resigns Over Use of "Amen" at End of Prayers

It looks like another Church of God group is getting ready to split after it's pastor resigns over a controversy over the use of "amen" at the end of prayers.

Ron Harmon of The House of God located in Texas, is of the belief that using "amen" after a prayer is acknowledging the sun-god "Aman-Ra" from ancient Egypt.

If these men focused even half of their energy on Jesus instead of silliness like this then they might actually accomplish something.  But no, they cannot and will not.

July 16th 2017

Hello Mike:

Please take the following with brotherly intent.
In Reply to your letter on the term amen, I feel you have misunderstood my stance on this issue. 

I did one sermon on this and in that sermon, I told everyone it wasn't a doctrine or a edict of the church; they were free to use amen or any other phrase to end a pray, or none at all. I recommended folks doing their own study on the subject, just as I do most other things I speak about.

As far as Frank was concerned, he took it to a level where I would never have, but that was Frank.

IT"S NOT A DOCTRINE of this church. It's not written anywhere and it isn't even on the website because the old archives are listed as of now.

I agreed for your sake I wouldn't push this any further, but you seem to be insistent when there isn't any others bringing the subject up.

It leads me to ask, what do you want done?

If you want me to publicly proclaim I was wrong and Frank was wrong, that isn't going to happen, I will resign and leave the church before that happens.

As far as I'm concerned on a personal bases, I will never use the phrase amen and I will spell out to why.

It is a reaffirmation of a prayer or a sermon or statement. The ancient Egyptians used it in the exact same manner but to their sun god amen-ra, aman-ra or amun-ra, however you want to spell it, all are correct.

1. You keep referring to Revelation 3:14 as your sticking point on this.

There are at least three other bible translations that don't use the word amen.

TLB (Living Bible)

“Write this letter to the leader of the church in Laodicea: “This message is from the one who stands firm, the faithful and true Witness of all that is or was or evermore shall be,* the primeval source of God’s creation:

NLV (New Living Translation)

“Write this to the angel of the church in the city of Laodicea: ‘The One Who says, Let it be so, the One Who is faithful, the One Who tells what is true, the One Who made everything in God’s world, says this:

WE, (World English)

`Write this to the angel of the church people in Laodicea: Here are the words of the one whose name is Truth. What he says can be trusted. He is the one who began all that God made.

I don't believe for one second amen is one of Jesus names, nor is God or any other name we use and amen won't be used in His kingdom.

It is not credible that God would invoke the name of an Egyptian god when he regarded himself as the only true God and his own name as above all names. “I am the LORD; that is my name; my glory I give to no other...” (Isaiah 42:8).

Even the name Lord here is improper, should actually say Yahweh.

But I don't make folks adhere to the true translations either, I even try and not say the word lord, instead I use Eternal if I remember.

In John chapter one He is called the logo's (word) and that is a correct interpretation as well.

But scriptures have been manipulated in so many areas of the bible, its really a matter of where one draws the line.

The word wasn't used before Israel went into captivity, while in captivity there is no evidence they kept their complete language pure or unbroken, it wouldn't even be practical to believe so.

It also isn't practical to assume they worshiped only the God of Israel, they didn't.

It is the reason why the true God did what He did when He brought Israel out of Egypt.

I don't want to go word for word on this with you, all I need to know is what is your solution?

I'm fine with leaving the issue as it is and not bringing it up, but if you want it expunged from Austin's lexicon and Franks archives, you'll have to address the whole Austin congregation about it.

One last thing, I don't in any way consider it blasphemous to our true Father or Christ to limit ones words he uses, especially when affirming another's prayers or statements.

Mathew 5:33 “Again you have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not swear falsely, but shall perform your oaths to the Lord.’ 34 But I say to you, do not swear at all: neither by heaven, for it is God’s throne; 35 nor by the earth, for it is His footstool; nor by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King. 36 Nor shall you swear by your head, because you cannot make one hair white or black. 37 But let your ‘Yes’ be ‘Yes,’ and your ‘No,’ ‘No.’ For whatever is more than these is from the evil one.

Mike if you feel so strongly about my stance on this, then I gladly step down and you can chart the way of the church for the future. I'm not so wrapped up in this position it would bother me to step aside at this time.

Until then, I'm glad to let those that want to use amen use it, and those that don't, not do so.

This has been my stance on the use of sacred names, and any other thing someone wants to believe.

It's my desire we can get this issue behind us and we can stay friends and fellow workers for Christ but I won't be forced to do something I don't believe in, and I wouldn't expect you or any other person to do so either.

God Bless.

Church of God News had this:

House of God 

This is pastor Ron Harmon’s letter of resignation from the House of God in Texas: 

“To The Wonderful People of the House of God: 

Unknown to most of you there has been a spiritual struggle occurring within our congregations. It was a battle not of my choosing, but it caused much tension in our home. This last Sunday at our annual meeting of the consul and ministers of the House of God, it all came to a conclusion. 

This spiritual battle has been raging behind the scenes for many years bringing me to a final conclusion. I can’t work effectively when others I work with are so consumed by my different beliefs on ending prayers, not allowing camaraderie to exist. 

As of Sunday (12th December 2017), Virginia and I are no longer members of the House of God. I won’t get into the specifics for the sake of the church, only to say the following. I cannot go against my convictions and how I see the scriptures. There are some in the leadership of the church who seem to believe my salvation is lost because of what I believe on one issue. I can only say this, you might be careful how you judge others and their salvation. 

I will be continuing the work in the ways I can from my home. I’m not sure at this time how that will manifest itself, but the fact is, I can’t stop serving God. 

I wish everyone well and God’s blessings. I’ve always tried to help make everyone’s lives a little better at the House of God and we hope you remember us fondly. Virginia and I are deeply saddened by what has transpired over the last few months. We are saddened to not be a part of your lives any longer, but we no longer feel welcomed, and we don’t go where we’re not welcomed. 

God Bless you all: Ron Harmon.” 

Gerald Weston on Yoga

Video update to the yoga comments instead of the entire mind numbing sermon

"This is something the church should not legislate on..."   but...

God Weston makes it quite clear on what LCG members should do concerning Yoga.  While he does not explicitly say what to do, the implications are very clear.

Revelatory Fun: "As Above...So Below"

Revelation 4:

The Throne in Heaven

4 "After this I looked, and there before me was a door standing open in heaven. And the voice I had first heard speaking to me like a trumpet said, “Come up here, and I will show you what must take place after this.” ² At once I was in the Spirit, and there before me was a throne in heaven with someone sitting on it".

Casseiopia the Throne in the North

^{3 "}And the one who sat there had the appearance of jasper and ruby. A rainbow that shone like an emerald encircled the throne. ⁴ Surrounding the throne were twenty-four other thrones, and seated on them were twenty-four elders. They were dressed in white and had crowns of gold on their heads. ⁵ From the throne came flashes of lightning, rumblings and peals of thunder."

The Throne (Casseopia) is on the sides of the North with a rainbow around it (The Milky Way)  The 24 Elders are the 24 hours in the day as divided by the longitudinal grid emanating from the North Pole. The Bear (Dipper), i.e. the Seven Spirits of God are close to the center in this view

In front of the throne, seven lamps were blazing. These are the seven spirits^[a] of God

Ursa Major-The Big Dipper-The Seven Spirits of God

Opposite the Throne Casseopia

. ⁶ Also in front of the throne there was what looked like a sea of glass, clear as crystal.

The Sea of Glass clear as crystal (The Milky Way) in front of the Throne Casseopia between it and The Seven Spirits of God (The Bear/Dipper)

"In the center, around the throne, were four living creatures, and they were covered with eyes, in front and in back. ⁷ The first living creature was like a lion, the second was like an ox, the third had a face like a man, the fourth was like a flying eagle. ⁸ Each of the four living creatures had six wings and was covered with eyes all around, even under its wings. Day and night they never stop saying:"

The four living creatures are made up from the Constellations of the Four Seasons, in this case, Summer-Leo the Lion...and three months earlier, Spring- Taurus the Ox...and three months earlier, Winter-Aquarius the Waterman...and three months earlier, Fall-Aquila the Eagle.  Their combined wings again are the 24 hours in the day (4x6) and "covered with eyes" are the night sky stars one can see all around them.  

These creatures, representing Spring, Summer, Winter and Fall are also found in Ezekiel's visions. 

Or it's a big coincidence they match the seasonal constellations

Let me know if you'd like to hear about Revelation 12:4?

Revelation 12:4 ⁴Its tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth. The dragon stood in front of the woman who was about to give birth, so that it might devour her child the moment he was born."

Hint:

Phew--close call!

Virgo, the Virgin, (upper left) slips the birth of the Sun past Serpens and Satan and is given the Wings of a Great Eagle, (Aquila the Eagle to the left) to flee to her place.

(This is also the current just before Christmas morning sky)

Or again...just an amazing coincidence

"As above...so below"

Sexual harassment and the women of "me too"

Sexual harassment and the women of "me too" 

by Greg Doudna

This is from the ACPasadenareunion site and is used by permission of Gregory Doudna.  Besides being an authority on the Dead Sea Scrolls, he is the author of the excellent book published in 2006,  "Showdown at Big Sandy: Youthful Creativity Confronts Bureaucratic Inertia at an Unconventional Bible College in East Texas"

Before our eyes there is a sea change, a threshold, seemingly a quantum level, a tipping or turning point in America, on sexual harassment, with powerful men falling right and left, with a new reality that behavior formerly often considered a joke but which caused real pain to women, no longer beyond the reach of accountability. Is this what a national repentance looks like?

In retrospect, how would WCG history and our own AC experience have been different if the unspeakable allegation concerning HWA had been known?

"Unspeakable" because it is literally unspoken, like the family secret that is never named, including in my own book "Showdown at Big Sandy", even though I knew of it and believed it was true. I have never heard it even mentioned on this forum, perhaps for similar reasons as why I simply could not bring myself to do so when I wrote my book. When I first heard the allegation long ago I felt like throwing up, a feellng which lasted for days. That it was apparently true seemed indicated on a number of grounds brought out in past issues of Ambassador Report, with a long track record of consistently highly accurate reporting. Yet I could not bring myself to name it, it was so sickening to me.

There is a European tradition that politicians can have mistresses or infidelities and no one cares so long as they are competent at their job. That is not what the current issues in America, the "me-too" stories coming out like a tsunami, seem to be about. It is rather about issues of abuses of power, and nonconsensual violation of body.

In late 1973, just as the dissident outbreak of Shreveport and then the larger regional directors of 1974 was breaking, I among a thousand others heard GTA in a sermon at Big Sandy say that there had been an early allegation of adultery against his father, HWA, back in the early days in Oregon. GTA did not say the allegation was true. In fact everyone hearing it would have assumed it was not true, a false allegation, in GTA's telling, though to the best of my memory GTA did not directly say it was false either, even though that was the default assumption. But what was that all about? I had never heard of such an allegation before regarding HWA. Barely two or three months later, Ronald Dart (resident deputy chancellor at Big Sandy) in a sermon or a student forum (I forget which it was but I was present and wrote in real-time notes the exact wording), said with emphasis: that in all of the criticisms of HWA that were being voiced by dissidents one thing that was not being raised or questioned was the content of HWA's character. "His (HWA's) character is as pure as the driven snow" said Mr. Dart with great rhetorical impact and force. I interpret that as that by early 1974 Mr. Dart had literally not yet heard the allegation.

Yet the allegation did later become known, based on GTA's telling a few people and the word was out, GTA having learned it firsthand confidentially from the victim. The allegation was never denied by HWA or the victim, and as reported by Ambassador Report, both the victim and her husband had been receiving church payments for decades, even though not employed. As the story was being voiced privately among people in contact with GTA but before it was yet publicly reported or known to church members, I remember a co-worker letter of HWA in which HWA spoke of some undefined supreme, master stroke of Satan, some utterly devastating master blow against the church which may be coming which would exceed anything the members could imagine. I wondered what was that all about? Of course HWA spoke in hyperbole in nearly every co-worker letter, so it was easy to read and dismiss that as more of the same, i.e. nothing specific. But in retrospect that comes across in a different light, like a man fearing a horrible skeleton becoming exposed. The spectre of how effective that master attack of Satan (as HWA put it) would be in HWA's telling--how many brethren HWA believed would fall away as a result--reads like a fear of the effect of a devastating, true allegation.

That is past history now. But what should--should--have been the proper response, when this allegation became known? What should ministers and members do, if it occurred today? Should HWA have been forced to resign? But, the way it was set up, HWA alone decided who should be forced to resign at his level, and everyone else should trust in God who was responsible for guiding HWA in his decisions, and God had not led HWA to decide that HWA should resign. This was believed to be God's government in operation.

I cannot imagine that I, or my father before me in Akron, Ohio, would have come into the church in the first place with a leader credibly having the nature of the allegation against HWA. It would have changed everything for me, or my father. But, when the allegation did become known, it did not change everything, in fact, outwardly and seemingly, it changed not much of anything. How could people like Meredith and other old-timers with similar mindsets, for example, still have continued to uphold HWA without addressing that? Did they think the allegation was actually fabricated? Did they think that it was irrelevant?

Toward the end of my time at AC and afterward, I discovered and read what to me were riveting writings of John Howard Yoder, a Mennonite theologian, books like "The Original Revolution", "Nevertheless", and "The Politics of Jesus". Yoder argued with great intelligence, insight, and humility the anabaptist case for Jesus as a "revolutionary pacifist", who was nonviolently upsetting the political order, that the point of Jesus was changing history by means of the church being a witness and an example in history of doing things in better ways, demonstrating more peaceful social relations internally, witnessing against war, civil disobedience like refusing to pay war taxes, standing for the poor of the world, living the sermon on the mount, returning good for evil, proclaiming Jesus's message of a biblical Jubilee of economic relations, the followers of Jesus being the mechanism for at some point bringing about the possibility of the kingdom of God on earth. It was enormously inspiring to me, my transition stage to Quakers. It was so inspiring--something real about the Gospel and the sermon on the mount read in ways I had not heard before, and the history of anabaptists, that I thought: this is real, this is so different from the barrenness of wcg spiritual culture (despite some genuinely good people). The anabaptists of the 1600s had talked the talk and walked the walk, suffering martyrdoms in large numbers for nonviolent attempts to live out the sermon on the mount of Jesus. I learned some of the anabaptists had even been sabbatarians. Anabaptists, the forerunners of today's Amish and Mennonites, Hutterites and Church of the Brethren, pacifist honorable peoples all, at the time were the radical left wing of the Protestant Reformation, hounded and killed and massacred at the behest of Reformers like Luther, Zwingli, and Calvin, all for having shockingly subversive views of equality of human beings and rejection of authority of nobles and priests and state apparatuses of such.

I applied to the Associated Mennonite Biblical Studies seminary in Goshen, Indiana, in order to study under Yoder, with a vision in my mind of truly living for God in a way that I had not found at AC. My application was rejected on the grounds that I had not completed my undergraduate degree at AC, which in any case was considered skeptically due to the lack of accreditation issue. I went on to find my roots and home among the Friends (Quakers), which were my ancestral roots which anabaptists from Germany were not. I spoke several times to Yoder personally, including at conferences where I would see him.

But in later years Mennonites have grappled with a wrenching and distressing problem involving much collective soul-searching: all the time of Yoder's brilliance at making the anabaptist case for the pacifist Jesus to the wider world, and inspiring a generation of committed pacifist Christian activists in the name of a literal interpretation of the ethics of the sermon on the mount, Yoder had been a serial assaulter of women. Not in a full-rape sense, but in repeated unwanted and disturbing physical interactions, unwanted graphic language, serially over many years despite many behind-the-scenes pleadings and appeals from administrators to stop. Meanwhile, the stories of women piled up. Eventually Yoder was disciplined and fired, but still the reasons were covered up until the point came when they no longer were covered up. Yoder died in 1997. Today, the Mennonites--good people, honest people--have sought to come to terms with Yoder's legacy, find out why this could have gone on so long, what kind of cultural changes and institutional mechanisms can protect women going forward. This is a drama I was spared by having been turned down for study for the ministry at the seminary at Goshen, Ind., where Yoder had taught.

The Mennonites had this discussion, hard as it was for those involved. It was wide-ranging, participatory, thoughtful, the women were listened to, there was repentance and there were outcomes. Have the WCG or any of the lettered successor Church of God groups had this discussion? No. Is there any mechanism by which such a discussion could even occur? It is hard to imagine. Are Church of God people better off for this "see no evil, hear no evil" practice toward iconic founder figures?  

Does the Bible matter?

This is from the ACPasadenareunion site and is used by permission of Gregory Doudna.  Besides being an authority on the Dead Sea Scrolls, he is the author of the excellent book published in 2006,  "Showdown at Big Sandy: Youthful Creativity Confronts Bureaucratic Inertia at an Unconventional Bible College in East Texas"

Does the Bible matter 

AC was based on an interpretation of the Bible. Post-AC this continues for many in various forms, while some reinterpret and others repudiate, the Bible as a basis for moral or social authority. Some find spiritual solace and meaning in passages of the Bible, others find such talk "triggering". Everyone here, no less than the first Christians, are atheists--in the classical sense of not believing in the Greek and Roman gods. No one here suffers existential angst or distress wondering whether Zeus maybe really exists and what if he will be wrathful in the afterlife for our lack of belief in him. But, Yahweh and Christ are live issues to many. 

70% of Americans self-identify as Christian. 25% of Americans are evangelical Christians (versus 15% mainstream Protestant and 20% Catholic). Evangelicals--a quarter of America--are the main voter base of the Republican Party and responsible for the Trump Presidency and several recent presidencies, for better or worse, domestically and for the world. Polls show evangelical Christian self-identification correlates with increased support for state torture (Pew Research Center). 65% of evangelical Christians reject the existence of macro-evolution as a scientific fact. This is compared to 30% of all Americans and ca. <1 and="" biochemists.="" biologists="" geologists="" nbsp="" of="" s="" span="" the="" world="">

We know cult-like thinking and how it operated, in our own past bubble experience. America, right now, is a bigger version of cult thinking. But this time it is not a church whose only barrier to exit are social and psychological ties.  

Unlike the old WCG, this modern cult environment is based on war worldwide. The cost of just the wars in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Pakistan alone, none of which involved defense of territorial United States, begun by a President who believed God had guided him to do so, is calculated at $4.4 trillion (Brown U. study, just published). These wars have killed 250,000 in direct killings, half of which are civilians, and displaced 7.8 million people from their homes. American Special Operations forces are active in 130 nations, 70% of the world's nations. American combat operations are ongoing in at least a dozen nations right now.   

The WCG did not exercise civil power. But imagine Gerald Waterhouse, Roderick Meredith, or HWA or GTA types in control of the world's biggest military power in history, guided by the Word of God, the foundation of knowledge. Imagine? Maybe we don't have to imagine. Is it already here? 

I wonder if there are lessons that can be learned from our AC/WCG experience which could shed insight on actual causes and solutions to issues of war and peace, as distinguished from the bromides in the Plain Truth magazine and invocation of supernatural or extraterrestrial interventions.