Exposing the underbelly of Armstrongism in all of its wacky glory! Nothing you read here is made up. What you read here is the up to date face of Herbert W Armstrong's legacy. It's the gritty and dirty behind the scenes look at Armstrongism as you have never seen it before!
With all the new crazy self-appointed Chief Overseers, Apostles, Prophets, Pharisees, legalists, and outright liars leading various Churches of God today, it is important to hold these agents of deception accountable.
Herbert Armstrong's Tangled Web of Corrupt Leaders
Recent and Upcoming Tomorrow’s World Presentations Last week, we held three Tomorrow’s World Presentations—one initial presentation in Morristown, Tennessee; and two follow-ups, in London, England; and Fredericton, New Brunswick, Canada. These presentations had a combined total of 44 guests. This weekend we have three initial presentations, in Little Rock, Arkansas; Milwaukee, Wisconsin; and Peoria, Illinois;and one follow-up in Morristown, Tennessee. Thank you all for your continued prayers for these presentations.
The work of God marches forward in amazing power and glory! 44 people's lives have been touched by the amazing ministry of the LCG, mind you this is 44 people out of a potential field white for the harvest of 14,346.069 million people! Woo Hoo and pass the offering plate! Never have we seen such amazing work that is touching the lives of so many!
Doug Winnail exhorts members to value the word of older and wiser people, i.e., the current leadership of the church. After all, these are the wisest men on earth who are filled with the knowledge of God and by listening to them you will become more like Jesus!
The Value of Wisdom: We live in an increasingly secular and materialistic world where people strive to gain many physical things—money, homes, cars, and fame. Yet Solomon wrote that of all we acquire in life, “wisdom is the principal thing” and it is worth more that gold (Proverbs 4:7; 16:16). Jesus stressed the importance of wisdom, and we are told that as He grew up, “Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and men” (Luke 2:52). The Apostle Paul urged Christians to use wisdom in dealing with others (Colossians 4:5). The Bible reveals that the key to gaining wisdom is learning to fear God and live by every word of God (Proverbs 1:7; 9:10). We are told to ask God for wisdom (James 1:5) and to seek wisdom by studying the Scriptures (Deuteronomy 4:1–10; 2 Timothy 3:15), and to listen to older and wiser people (Proverbs10:1; 15:7; 18:15). If we follow these instructions, we can become more like Jesus Christ and the wise God whom we worship (Romans 16:27; Philippians 2:5). Have a profitable Sabbath, Douglas S. Winnail
The sun has set in Jerusalem as of 12:30 P.M. Eastern time which means I have thus far survived David C. Pack’s Av 7 preamble to the “not-really-a-50-day-count to Trumpets” epic craptacular.
I wonder if Dave went to bed feeling “uncomfortable” again last night. Oh, wait, yes he did. Part 387 is being delivered TODAY.
Boy oh boy. And here I thought “Tammuz” was going to be the biggest display at the Lima, Ohio, “David C. Pack Craptacular Hall of Failure.” Dave is the busy beaver making sure that “Av” greets people as they walk in the door.
I listened to Parts 385 and 386 and have to admit, I'm still unclear as to the "Elijahn period" and how that is counted since I thought Dave went searching for a missing "4 days" that would make his 50-day math work. But Daniel 12 does say, “…none of the wicked shall understand.”
No one needs to fully understand Dave. Just smile and nod your head, “Clear and powerful, sir,” if he ever asks you in the hallway.
The last article was ridiculously long. If you reached the end, then bless your heart. Dave rambled for 103 minutes and it was so “nonsense rich” that there is more to report on.
I have a few more notable quotes from “The Greatest Unending Story! (Part 386)” delivered this past Tuesday.
@ 1:42:52 I’m committed absolutely to this year. Or we’ve had an enormous coincidence. I figured this out right on Av 5. I just lucked out. Man, I just I won the lottery without buying a ticket. I figured this out right on time. What do you know? What a coincidence. You believe that? I can’t believe that. So, truly this time, time alone, the schedule, and dates, and your church calendar alone tell you this is the end of the series.
coincidence
a remarkable concurrence of events or circumstances without apparent causal connection
Dave imagines a connection to dates in the Bible. He uses all his Precise Speculation skills to build a case of smoke and mirrors that "prove" his Nothing-burger. He throws his thought menagerie hastily at the membership, then gives them two options: 1) either; 2) or.
Either God is behind it all. Or it is simply a coincidence.
The invisible third option is that Dave is making it all up. It is not of God. It is not even a real event, so coincidence cannot apply here.
One of his “metrics” for this week was found in the book of Amos.
Amos 3:7
Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.
@ 1:39:35 It’s possible that revealing it to me now is God sort of saying, “You get this after all these years. You get this now. You get it and you told everybody.” I’m revealing it to you and maybe I’m supposed to realize it’s the beginning of being this prophet. I’m not sure, but it does say, “Who can but prophesy?” So, it’s been revealed to me and He does reveal it to prophets.Whether I am or I’m not now, “Who can but prophesy?” would suggest it’s close.
But you do not “get it,” Dave. I am certain I will be able to quote this in another article. Prepare to be tweaked in the future.
I never understood why he cannot read that verse and see that all we need to know to prepare for the Kingdom of God is right there in the scriptures. God revealed His plan ALREADY to everyone inside the pages of the Bible. That verse does not apply to a future-tense fulfillment for David “Passover” Pack.
Talk about over-reading. Sheesh.
One of the “epic” points to the message was found in Daniel 12:4, “…knowledge shall be increased.” Would you like to know what that really means? Ready?
More people hear will hear this knowledge when it all happens! More people = increase.
Boy, that was certainly worth waiting 77 minutes to hear. Dave could have saved a lot of time by just opening a dictionary.
increase
become or make greater in size, amount, intensity, or degree
Dave read Isaiah 41:2, “Who raised up the righteous from the east…” and repeats that is him functioning as Elijah.
Does Isaiah 41 mention Elijah by name? No.
How does Dave conclude that “the righteous from the east” is Elijah? Because he says so.
How does Dave know he is that Elijah? Because he says so.
This is what Dave does. This is how The Restored Church of God operates.
This is a true, factual statement: "Nowhere in the Bible does God command anyone to count 50 days before The Feast of Trumpets." Dave spotted something in the Bible but did not realize it was just a fly that landed on the page.
This is a true, factual statement: “David C. Pack never found 4 days in the scriptures.” He had to round up from “time, times, and an half” by taking cotton balls and duct tape to pad the triangle so it would fit nicely inside the circle.
Both of those are pure imagination.
Brad, Ed, Jaco, Ryan, Ken, Tim, Carl, Jim, Andy, Salasi, Frank: You did not create the monster, but you play a role in feeding it kidnapped virgins. The monster only has power because you LET it. Maybe you can sleep at night because you wash the blood off your conscience as Pilate did.
Your continual enabling is not helping God’s people.
Every single one of you knows there is no “50-day count to Trumpets” and he never found “4 days” to even make the math work.
Please explain how that is "inspired preaching" and NOT lying.
Please explain how that is "God revealing to His servant" and NOT lying.
Please explain how that is "Bible truth" and NOT lying.
Write me. Call me. I want to know from any one of you. Help me to understand.
The Av 7 deadline has passed. By the time this is posted, Part 387 will already be underway.
Will you all continue “to agree with Mr. Pack” when he declares whatever else the next thing that “God led him to see?”
Please note that Mr. Pack plans to deliver a Bible Study tomorrow, Thursday, August 4 in the afternoon. There’s a SLIGHT change to what we learned in Part 386 that will be explained in a short message tomorrow. ALL IS WELL! We will let you know once the message is available in Member Services.
Guess who set a new “all or nothing” date for tomorrow, August 4, 2022, which is Av 7? It either happens or everyone waits a year. By the time some read this, it will already be too late. Ponder that.
David C. Pack is the most desperate I have ever heard him be.
I have been listening to him preach since 2010 and I was on staff starting in December of 2012. I have heard him say things that never left the room. I also heard him speak frankly (and sometimes brutally) during the Ministerial Conferences. With all that background, understand: David C. Pack has never been this desperate to prove something that is not there.
We all seem to be watching a downward spiral in action. Where it leads…I have no idea.
David C. Pack tells you everything you need to hear to make a judgment call if he is true or not.
On Tuesday, August 2nd, he pulled the staff away from being productive so they could marvel at the sound of his voice for another 1 hour and 43 minutes but called it, “The Greatest Unending Story! (Part 386).” He opened with one of his favorite topics: About how right he is.
@ 00:27 By the way, I knew almost immediately that we would be here today. And that’s why I said it the other day. I doubted seriously this morning would be the start of things.
Look who gets a cookie for disbelieving a Dave Pack theory. If I actually ate a cookie every time I disbelieved Dave, I would look like an adult Cartman about now.
If he “doubted seriously,” then why say it in the first place? BECAUSE he was covering his bases. Just in case the Kingdom of God / Kingdom to Israel / Jesus Christ / The Father arrived on Tuesday morning, he could then tell everyone walking by for the rest of eternity how RIGHT he was about the date.
He will be insufferable during the millennium.
Dave donned his Chicken Little Halloween mask and then commented about the news.
@ 00:56 Nancy Pelosi, kind of a semi-senile old lady who wants to have her legacy remembered has put America on the edge of a nuclear war by deciding to go to Taiwan.
This is the type of comment during my tenure that was stricken from the record and not distributed to the church. Wiser thinking of times gone by was that if a quote was “leaked out,” it could potentially get back to that politician that Dave was ridiculing them. But since RCG is so close to the return of Jesus Christ, who cares who Dave pisses off?
Psychological Projection
In its malignant forms, it is a defense mechanism in which the ego defends itself against disowned and highly negative parts of the self by denying their existence in themselves and attributing them to others, breeding misunderstanding and causing untold interpersonal damage.
Wikipedia – Sigmund Freud, Case Histories II (PFL 9) p. 132
@ 02:40 We will gain knowledge today. That simple statement will grow to epic proportion by sermon’s end.
Dave’s epic craptacular begins.
@ 03:27 If there were 4 days before the 45 days that are bad in a period called “The Kingdom to Israel” that start the 49 days, would those 4 days count against the 10 [days of the Tribulation]?”
This one comment summarizes why David C. Pack fascinates me. I was no mathlete in high school but I now appreciate the significance of the number 4.
This is the type of statement that drives me to continue the exrcg.org website. This is what motivates me to do a 5thinterview with Dawn Blue. This is the technique that makes me angry at the weak, cowardly enablers at Headquarters who sold their spines for a bowl of beans.
Dave never explained where the “4 days” were in the Bible during Part 385. He spent 8 minutes talking about 4 days but NEVER PROVED IT. This was his hallmark verse:
Luke 12:49
I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled?
For the next hour and eighteen minutes of Part 386, he mentions the “4 days” over and over again as if it were a previously proven fact. It is a foregone conclusion, just like how God commands His people to count 50 days before Trumpets. Those are both no-brainers to him.
This is what Dave does. This is how they do things in The Restored Church of God now.
Dave will talk and talk and talk and talk and talk. He fills your ears with words until your cup runneth over and it becomes white noise. Like when the leaf blower outside your window for 45 minutes suddenly goes quiet. You breathe a sigh of relief.
When Dave stops talking, everyone in the Main Hall breathes a sigh of relief.
David C. Pack made “4 days” out of thin air on the Sabbath. He pulled it out of his hat. He had it hidden up his sleeve. He bought it off the Dark Web. He slipped, hit his head on the toilet rim, and when he woke up he had a vision, a picture in his head. The 4 days. But unlike Doc Brown, this vision will never be a reality.
I suppose I should not be surprised as he has been making things up and calling it doctrine for years.
I’m Elijah. Elijah is That Prophet. That is not the ancient David. The days of my voice. I’m rushing to call it out.
Fabrication. Imagination. Biblical sleight of hand. Prophetic nonsense. Fraud. Wickedness.
@ 03:44 Now, if so and they do and that will be clear. If so, then the Kingdom of God, the First Kingdom of God, would not be 35 days followed by 10 days of Tribulation, but rather 39 days, 4 days longer, and followed by 6 days of Tribulation.
If you think hearing it is easier than reading it, I invite you to listen to the longer version.
Kingdom to Israel
@ 04:32 Here’s another point that proves we’re absolutely on track. In effect, as the old saying goes, “We’ve got this!”
He went on to thoroughly not prove that at all.
Dave coined a new adjective that I had to play back at ½ speed three times to confirm. He added “n” to the end of “Elijah.” Depending on how in love he is with the term “Elijahn period,” we may never hear it again or he will repeat it until we start accidentally incorporating it into our daily vocabulary.
@ 13:22 “I’m gonna show you the smoking gun after I prove to you there is an Elijahn period because we walked outta here, I wasn’t sure. I’m gonna absolutely prove there is an Elijahn period and I’m gonna tell you exactly how long it is so you’ll be able to know when it comes. Because we have to see Christ by next Sunday.
This is a strange quote to revisit after hearing the entire message. Dave later places all the chips on Thursday, August 4. That’s Av 7. That’s tomorrow. If tomorrow does not happen, then Sunday is moot. Maybe he figured this out over the next 90 minutes while at the TammuzCooking Table.
As a non-prophet/non-psychic, I declare as fact that Jesus Christ will not return by Sunday, August 7th. He will not return on Thursday, August 4th, either.
Which one of us is God going to back up, Dave?
For those inside The Restored Church of God, when you get ready for work next Monday morning, reflect on the reality that God’s Apostle—David C. Pack (who is here “in the spirit and power of Elijah”) was wrong and that a deceived antichrist serpent was right. Again. Twice in one week.
I am not saying God is behind what I am doing. I do not dare to put God’s fingerprints on my actions or motivations, but it should give anyone still buying Dave’s fraud some pause when it is “business as usual” all the way to Monday, August 8th.
The “4 days” is there because Dave NEEDS them to be there. One of the weapons in Dave’s Precise Speculation arsenal is Inductive Reasoning. It has served him well over the years and he continues to hone his craft.
A deductive argument is an argument that is intended…to provide a guarantee of the truth of the conclusion provided that the argument’s premises are true.
An inductive argumentis an argument that is intended…to be strong enough that, if the premises were to be true, then it would be unlikely that the conclusion is false. So, an inductive argument’s success or strength is a matter of degree, unlike with deductive arguments.
Think of “deductive” as presenting fact and “inductive” as presenting theory.
It is quite a surreal experience to listen to the entire message from beginning to end and see how clearly he is making it all up. The 50-count to Trumpets and the “4 days” are made up. A deluge of words that eat time. There is no substance. No foundation. No biblical proof. Only speculation.
This has to be one of the single-greatest craptacular ideas David C. Pack has ever come up with.
The more he quotes the Bible, the more he shows he has nothing in his hands. I have never seen Dave so desperate. The man is desperate. It cannot be any type of party to be around him these days.
The members of The Restored Church of God must be so prophetically numb, they must just be hearing a leaf blower when Dave opens his mouth. It is all white noise and they are grateful when it stops.
@ 56:56 “Know this first, that no prophesy of the scriptures of any private interpretation.” ‘Member when Elijah is raised, That Prophet’s raised, false prophets are gonna come and false teachers are gonna push back. So, the emphasis is “Don’t believe people who are bringing different ideas” in verses [2 Peter 1] 20 and 21. A man has to be led of God’s Spirit. Don’t listen to anything else.
Psychological Projection. ‘Nuff said.
@ 1:00:44 One of the questions is: When did the Two Witnesses function? If they are not Moses and Elijah, you oughta at least ask the question. I’ve come to wonder if they are or aren’t. Now that I understand this period more than ever, I wonder, "Are Moses and Elijah brought back to talk to Laodicea?" Hmm. Or do we maybe not quite get that right?
You better hide from Ed and Dr. Vijoen or they will snatch your notes from your lap. Did Brad march upstairs and scrub Part 381 from Member Services? Somebody should check that.
We all need to give Herbert W. Armstrong a little more credit than we have in the past. The man ran a church for 50 years and knew to not create a new doctrine or prophetic framework that would then hamstring the previous doctrine or framework. Dave says how close he was to HWA, but he clearly never learned this lesson.
Dave creates a new web of understanding by stringing together verses that do not actually fit. He spends hour upon hour studying so he can then spend hour upon hour teaching. The problem becomes that when you build such a heavy, complicated structure out of candy glass, bumping into it or moving it a little causes disaster.
Dave keeps breaking his own theories. Theory B cracks Theory A. Theory C breaks Theory B. Theory D takes Theory A-B-C and chucks them out the window. A year later, he goes dumpster diving and finds Theory A again, presenting it as “something the church never saw.” If only someone recorded these things…
@ 1:05:06 If this went another year, brethren, I can just tell you, a year from now, we’re not gonna be any bigger. We’d continue to “lie waste” for one or three or ten more years. That’s just biblical.
So all you unmarried members in RCG that are looking forward to the Feast so you can find a fresh, single face…forget it. Even Dave admits the pool will not be getting any deeper.
He finishes reading Revelation 10:7.
@ 1:10:08 The whole plan of God, there it is…And that is absolutely the way it is. On God’s authority, that is not wrong. Or math is wrong. So, that Mystery is ended. But that’s talking about a period right before Christ gets here where “the days of his voice” are involved and “He’s about to sound”…
Revelation 10 Plan of God
It turns out to be that Daniel 12 is the big deal he teased at the beginning of the message. The one chapter that explains the whole plan of God.
Eventually, Dave gets to his unicorn. The desperately-needed “4 days” is found in Daniel 12:7 by stating, “a time, times, and an half” means 3 ½ days, not 3 ½ years as Herbert W. Armstrong so foolishly believed his entire ministry.
Dave puts the kibosh on “the day for a year rule” that even he followed for decades.
He then tells a story to admit something disturbing. When he preached on the Sabbath, he did not yet “see” the 3 ½ days in Daniel 12. Luke 12:49 was all he had in the storehouse. I knew the cupboard was bare or he would have told everyone. The man preached about “4 days” when he KNEW he had not found them in the Bible.
The 3 ½ days of Daniel 12 “struck him like lightning” on Sunday and Monday. Give anyone a Bible and strong motivation, they will find whatever they need to find. God lets people stumble at His word. Dave is pulling a full-blown Chevy Chase down the stairs with all of this.
The tiny little crack in his candy glass theory is still that he never found “4 days.” If someone were so inclined, they could even poke at the idea in Daniel 12:7 that “time, times, and a half” does not mean 3 ½ anything. If HWA was wrong about it being years, could he also have been wrong about the meaning?
Dave needed 4 days to get to an even 50-count so he can draw a dotted line from Pentecost (as a type) to The Feast of Trumpets. No matter which way you interpret it, Daniel 12 does not get him to “4 days” but to 3 ½. If you are flexible with the interpretation.
“Close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades.”
Forget being "exact" with the scriptures. Also, forget that God NOWHERE commands anyone to count 50 days until Trumpets.
You can watch him explain the plan of God presented in Daniel 12 while at the Tammuz Cooking Table.
@ 1:27:21 I never read correctly Daniel 12:7. God smashes the Splinters… “and swore by Him that lives forever that it shall be for a time, times, and a half and when He,” well, the antecedent is God, “shall have to accomplished to shatter and scatter the power of the holy people.” It’s all over. And then comes Christ. “Time no longer.” Now, that’s a stunning thing to understand.
If you have friends in other churches, you better start making phone calls. They only have a few hours left to freak out before absolutely nothing happens tomorrow morning.
@ 1:31:41 Of course, it does say three shepherds are killed and many get an appointment with God’s vengeance in 4 days when they’re gonna weep and gnash their teeth when the Kingdom of God arrives. So, they’re appointed to death and have “a certain, fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation” at the 1335 that will devour them when the Father comes 4 days after Christ does. Which is 3 ½ days after God raised Elijah.
It is tricky to follow him when he works his way backward. But since his thinking is completely backward, that should be no surprise.
@ 1:37:25 If Sabbath and Tuesday were put together [Part 385 & 386], I promise you that’s the picture. You have the picture. It’s inarguable. You have the picture. It will not change, it cannot change if we wait a hundred years.
Like fish in a barrel.
Part 367 – May 14, 2022
@ 1:42:09 But I’d rather just tell you we’re right on track. It looks to me like it’s tomorrow night or we wait a year.
Part 379 – June 25, 2022
@ 18:23 It’s impossible that God doesn’t start to ‘revive His work’ on Tammuz 1 in the year of His choosing.
Part 380 – July 1, 2022
@ 1:26:38 If for some reason, it’s not this picture, I will not bend it, I’ll tell ya that now.
But that was then, this is now.
@ 1:38:26 There’s no question it starts on the 7th of Av in the year God does it and ends on Trumpets. Over and out. Done. Inarguable. Dynamite couldn’t blow that outta my mind.I hope you either. And every time you get confused, pull out Daniel 12.
Dave’s new math lands us on Thursday morning, August 4th. That is less than 12 hours from now. At 11PM Eastern, it will be Av 7 in Jerusalem, so you will soon be able to disregard that as a factor.
@ 1:40:07 This literally is the last time I could either start or end a message with either of these two things. I still believe this year or we’re still on track. There’s no more time for me to ever say that again this year. It’s this Thursday AM or Wednesday night or into Thursday morning, whenever it is. Or it’s the same time next year or the year after or the year after. I can’t believe that because God would be telling us, “Just be ready that your Lord delays His coming and you’re gonna lay waste another year or more.”
@ 1:41:14 All I can tell you absolutely is, “That is right.” And you should be able to see it by math. I’m a very detailed speaker. Mr. Schleifer described my messages as “information rich.” I can get some things wrong, but I try to be very detailed.
Information rich? True. Speculation rich? True. Word rich? True. Truth rich? Well…
As a non-prophet/non-psychic, I predict Dave will speak either Friday afternoon or on the Sabbath. He will not get to Monday without commenting. However, since I love waffles, too…if he is feeling particularly defeated, he will refuse to get in front of an audience and then feverishly compose a bloated “Prophetic Update” in Member Services.
This is not over. Not by any stretch of Dave’s imagination. What an epic craptacular!
For those keeping score after Parts 385 & 386, remove the following from your online pool list:
