Exposing the underbelly of Armstrongism in all of its wacky glory! Nothing you read here is made up. What you read here is the up to date face of Herbert W Armstrong's legacy. It's the gritty and dirty behind the scenes look at Armstrongism as you have never seen it before!
With all the new crazy self-appointed Chief Overseers, Apostles, Prophets, Pharisees, legalists, and outright liars leading various Churches of God today, it is important to hold these agents of deception accountable.
Herbert Armstrong's Tangled Web of Corrupt Leaders
This guy makes more sense than anything Dave Myers speaks!
This is the couple Dave Myers kicked out of COGWA recently and blamed for causing "division".
Note comments from former COGWA members:
"I love this message! Following Jesus who, as you rightly show, came to cause division. It is what truth does. When presented, truth necessitates a listener to either accept or reject it, hence a division may occur. The problem within most of the COG's is they will not tolerate thinking and communicating members, unless what you think and communicate is totally in line with what they think and communicate and, of course, you must get their permission before you communicate it. This stems from the huge amount of insecurity shrinking membership roles have caused the corporate churches. This causes tighter controls on inter-corporate member fraternization, which in turn causes greater membership shrinkage. It's a vicious cycle which is accelerated by the abuses the ever popular but Biblically questionable, hierarchical government model provides. This sad story is only possible because of two vitamin deficiencies every COG seems plagued by. Vitamin "H" and Vitamin "J". These are the two most important ingredients in any successful church! Can you guess what they are? Yup, you guessed it! Humility and Jesus. :)"
"Honestly this is why we left the cogs .. because I’m not sure they will ever be able to get over the arrogance of what they think is right… long enough to allow someone’s walk to be even remotely unique and reflect their own personal walk with God. They are threatened by the idea of anyone having a different stance on anything. Your intentions are good … but the freedom and peace that has come from moving on to other atmospheres has allowed growth I only wished for. We can pray and hope for unity but it’s definitely a bumpy road to true humility and re learning without the ego on what it means to walk with God."
I find this fascinating that here is a young man and his wife who dare to think for themselves and encourage others to do the same. I may not agree with all he has to say, but this is refreshing that he is doing this. The current corporate Church of God's are fossilized relics still trying to live in the past, The younger members, thanks to the internet, have overturned that broken-down apple cart and are forging ahead.
Corporate COG leaders cannot handle regular members gathering on their own to study the Bible, wrestle with what they read and talk about it WITHOUT a minister present. 99% of the time the conclusions and understanding these people will arrive at are BETTER than anything a corporate COG minister will tell them.
The notion that the congregation should have any input when it comes to choosing their leaders is a completely foreign concept among the COGs, as well as many other Christian denominations that have adopted a strict hierarchical organizational structure. Any suggestion of those within the hierarchy being held accountable by the congregation in any way will naturally be met with strong resistance, and the "authority" of those in leadership positions will be hammered. Those who disagree or question the status quo are viewed as causing division or undermining the authority of those "God" has placed over them.
Exodus 18:13-26 is often freely quoted to back up the idea of this strict hierarchical structure, as well as certain selective passages within the New Testament, such as Paul telling Titus to "appoint elders in every town..." Titus 1:5.
The problem with only going to the above scriptures, however, is that they don't present a complete picture of how leaders or those given certain responsibilities within the congregation were chosen and "appointed" either by Moses in the Old Testament, or among the New Testament congregations. For example, to have a complete picture of how Moses went about the job of appointing leaders among the Israelites, we need to read Deuteronomy 1:9-18.
In carefully reading this passage we see that Moses actually instructed the people to “Choose for yourselves wise, understanding, and respected men from each of your tribes, and I will appoint them as your leaders." (vs.13) We further see that the people openly agreed to having their disputes handled in this way. (vs.14) So, though there was a structure put in place, the people had input in who should be placed within that structure.
We can see the above process echoed in Acts 6:1-7 when the seven were chosen to care for the Greek widows within the congregation in Jerusalem. In reading this passage, we see that all the disciples in the area were gathered to discuss the issue at hand, (vs.2) and they were instructed by the apostles to choose the seven, with the apostles laying out specific qualities they should keep in mind when making their choices. "Therefore, brethren, seek out from among you seven men of good reputation, full of the Holy Spirit and wisdom, whom we may appoint over this business..." (vs.3) We also see that the people were happy with this proposal. (vs.5)
As a side note, we also can see from reading further in Acts that those who were chosen to serve in the above capacity were not limited to only serving in that way, with some notably going on to perform miracles and preach the gospel, and Stephen even taking on the Sanhedrin (The Jewish equivalent to a Council of Elders), and unfortunately becoming a martyr as a result. These men served in the ways and capacities they were led by God to serve through the Holy Spirit. This might have ruffled some feathers, but the apostles clearly didn't have any issue with them overstepping their bounds or undermining their "authority." Nor does it say anywhere that the apostles questioned or overruled the choices made by the congregation. The congregation chose the men, and the apostles appointed those who had been chosen, as did Moses.
We could also cite Acts 15: 22-28, where we see that the “whole church” (ekklesia; congregation, assembly) was involved in selecting those who would accompany Paul and Barnabas to Antioch.
“Then the apostles and elders, with the whole church, decided to select men from among them to send to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas. They chose Judas called Barsabbas and Silas, two leaders among the brothers…” (vs.22)
As far as the current issue with Dave Meyers post is concerned, I was able to read some of the comments before the post was deleted, as well as some of the comments made on the page of the couple who were put out.
Some of the comments drew attention to the fact that the COGs, in general, do not follow the Biblical procedure as outlined in Matthew 18: 15-17, when handling disputes within the church. Others pointed out passages such as Proverbs 18:17, where we see that it is important to hear both sides of a matter when making a judgment.
The complaint was made that ministers routinely put people out for trivial issues or differences of opinion, rather than for grievous sins, and much of the time these people just disappear with no explanation whatsoever being given to the rest of the congregation, or they are “marked” and the congregation is expected to shun them with no further reasons being given by the ministry, other than they left or were put out, and were “causing division.”
These were no doubt the types of comments Mr. Meyers didn’t like, and why he ended up deleting his original post.
In reading Matthew 18:15-17, we can see that Jesus outlined a specific procedure for handling disputes among brethren within the ekklesia.
1. Go to the person privately and discuss the matter. (vs.15) 2. If that doesn’t resolve the issue, take one or two others along. (vs.16) 3. If that doesn’t work, take it to the church. (ekklesia, or ecclesia)
The problem here is that we have been told that when Jesus says to “take it to the church” He meant to “take it to the minister” and that is how these verses are applied, if they are applied at all. However, if that had truly been what Jesus meant to say, He would have used other words, such as “take it to the presbyteros” (elders) or “take it to the diakonos” (rendered deacon, servant, minister). Instead, He specifically said, “take it to the ekklesia” which is the word He used to delineate the called-out believers who would follow Him, and would include those in leadership positions, but not to the exclusion of the rest of the congregation or body of believers.
It is interesting to note that in ancient culture the term ekklesia didn’t always carry an overtly religious meaning. For instance, the citizens of ancient Greek city-states were called together to form an ekklesia, and this general assembly of citizens performed certain responsibilities within that society.
“The Ekklesia of ancient Athens is particularly well-known. It was the popular assembly, open to all male citizens as soon as they qualified for citizenship.[1] In 594 BC, Solon allowed all Athenian citizens to participate, regardless of class. The assembly was responsible for declaring war, military strategy and electing the strategoi and other officials. It was responsible for nominating and electing magistrates (árchontes), thus indirectly electing the members of the Areopagus. It had the final say on legislation and the right to call magistrates to account after their year of office…” Ecclesia (ancient Greece)
We could surmise then, that the Greeks as well as the Jewish establishment of Jesus’ day would have been familiar with this term in a different context, and Jesus would have no doubt known this when He specifically used this term to describe the “ekklesia” He would build. (Matthew 16:18), or when He outlined the procedure for handling issues that would arise within His body of believers.
Cherry-picking scriptures to the exclusion of others on this issue or imposing a meaning that is foreign to the text itself in order to maintain the status quo, has resulted in an imbalance of governance within the COGs, and has led to an abuse of authority within these groups, as well as others. While we see that there is organization and structure within the body of believers, we can also see that it isn’t without certain checks and balances, when all the scriptures are considered.
David C. Pack of The Restored Church of God passed a major hurdle this week. Ask yourself if it could possibly be just a coincidence.
Consider the odds of The Restored Church of God having a 24th Anniversary on Wednesday and that this self-described “important milestone” occurred in the 390th week of the Series, which also experienced a full moon, a moed, a chag, the writers’ strike, two second Passovers (one real, one imaginary), Cinco de Mayo, the release of Guardians of the Galaxy Volume 3, a weekly Sabbath, King Charles III being crowned, the unsealing of Daniel, and Part 440 ending the Series unless we are still here. Could all of that just be a coincidence?
Time to shock you. No. It was not a coincidence.
It was less than a coincidence. It is a list of random items occurring in the same week that have nothing to do with each other and in no way point to a greater significance because only schizophrenics would think otherwise. No combination of variables will ever help make David C. Pack right.
“The Greatest Unending Story!” Series allegedly ended this week with Parts 439 and 440. If you believe that, I have a bridge in Brooklyn for sale.
But Dave sounded pretty confident. Most of the time.
Part 439 – May 2, 2023
@ 00:46 Daniel is now unsealed. Mostly because we found the Sixth Head.A lot of Daniel is about it. Chapters 10, 11, and 12 focus on it. And that had been throwing us off. And until you found this great first head, you certainly couldn’t say the Book of Daniel was unsealed.
According to the Bible, the unsealing of Daniel would be a sign of the end. But the visible shivers from the Main Hall audience were due to the frigid temperature, not the shock of prophetic fulfillment.
Flashback Part 211 – October 24, 2019
@ 1:05:27 Now, for a truly astounding discovery in one verse. Wow, this one will close out all questions about what this Fire is about…So today and not before today…is Daniel fully unsealed.
Flashback Part 273 – December 12, 2020
@ 3:00:33 One thing, time is running out…Daniel was unsealed. I finally understood every element of Daniel this week.
Flashback Part 278 – January 7, 2021
@ 53:42 It’s inarguable...That is truly the last jot and tittle of Daniel being unsealed.
Flashback Part 284 – January 28, 2021
@ 2:08:00 Anybody who thinks we’re gonna go another thirteen months in this needs to find some other book to study ‘cause there’s no way. There’s no way. So, as of Monday night, the best I can see, Daniel was unsealed…You think it’s a coincidence mid-Shevat? That vision? Jeremiah saw that vision on the middle day of Shevat. It’s today. Unbelievable. The Series ends today.
Part 396 – October 1, 2022
@ 1:48:04 We are not seeking the 1335. A hundred billion people will be…And until that’s clear, Daniel isn’t completely unsealed. You gotta get that straight.
David C. Pack Unseals Daniel™
Five-Years Running
2019 202020212022 2023
Only fools believe David C. Pack and do so to their own shame.
Revisiting the recent past helps frame the present to anticipate the future.
Flashback Part 438 – April 27, 2023
@ 1:07:23 If your relatives are dead, thank God every day that your relatives are dead…everybody who’s shot and killed in this world right now…drop to your knees and thank God they were killed.
Listening to and believing David C. Pack is now a requirement for salvation. That puts pressure on the brethren. This means at least some in RCG followed his command. We could all hope that none did, but since critical thinking and rational thought are fled away, the best outcome would be very few took him seriously. But even one is too many.
Those same people who thanked God for murder must have been mortified and ashamed when they learned five days later during Part 439 that this was a “misunderstood” element of God’s plan.
As it turns out, 5.2 billion people, including unconverted family and friends, will no longer die the second death in August. This was just another understandable mistake from the Pastor General.
This is a profoundly substantial change that affects the brethren directly. In David C. Pack’s typical cowardly fashion, he chose not to lead with this nor make it too plain. He let members stew on that understanding for another forty minutes until he was ready to draw out piecemeal excuses.
The villainy of David C. Pack is not from what he taught from the Bible or how he taught it. The indifferent wickedness comes from the injection of personal attitudes that do not originate from the Holy Spirit or the examples of Jesus Christ. Being thankful for murder is not of God. Satan is thankful for murder.
How many RCG mothers lost sleep worrying about their unbelieving children during the five nights before this message? How many brethren watched their spouse quietly tormented over the idea of them being slaughtered in the next four months?
Dave is guilty, and he knows he is guilty. The meandering roundabout is filled with his “tells.” It would be fascinating for a mental clinician to analyze him.
Dave spends 42 minutes in Part 439 dismantling Part 438. Half of the entire Series is just Dave reversing the other half. This is a prime example.
Part 439 – May 2, 2023
@ 40:12 One of the greatest things I discovered in the last few days because there was some things that just bothered me terribly about the outcome for some people here [shot glass]. I had to start looking. And I foundthat vastly more people enter the Family of God under the God who says, "I'm not willing that any should perish, and I would have all men to be saved.” I learned more about that Godin the last few days than maybe in the time God called me. The numbers who make it are way bigger than WE thought. And I wanna correct that today.
Tell: “bothered me terribly”
The uncomfortable feeling is back. He is just like the brethren because he was equally disturbed by what they heard. He is on their side. This is psychological manipulation. He endears himself to them to soften the blame to come.
Tell: “I had to start looking”
The facts were so hard to hear that he went above and beyond by getting clarification to prove all things.
Tell: “I learned more about God”
He is learning alongside the brethren and is not to blame. There is a bright side to falsely proclaiming the final death of 5.2 billion people because Dave better understood God. “All things work for good,” as some like to misquote.
Tell: “than WE thought”
He is along for the ride on the same bus the brethren are. Dave does not conjure these ideas on his own. The entire Headquarters ministry shares the responsibility for what is fed to the sheep.
Tell: “I wanna correct”
He did not get it wrong. He is simply correcting a teaching that bothered him, so he went investigating. In doing so, it brought him closer to God because the church collectively misunderstood what is now understood as God always intended. As the leader of the church, he wants to fix it.
Flashback Part 438 – April 27, 2023
@ 1:04:11 So, let’s just say this plainly…two-thirds of eight billion people alive today will be destroyed forever. They will be burned in the second death…there’s no arguing with that.
David C. Pack argues that during Part 439, for half of the duration. He begins with a winding road of statistics and verses about children that tugs on the heartstrings to soften the audience.
Part 439 – May 2, 2023
@ 45:30 Half made it. There’s no other math. It’s half made it of this generation. That’s the first piece of wonderful good news here [shot glass]. Half made it. The children weren’t in play.
Five days earlier, Dave taught about a god that kills billions of children too young to be baptized but old enough to be destroyed forever. That flip-flop sounds a little more grand than “something we missed.”
@ 46:50 But now we gotta find out (in a minute) whether or not the people who died here [shot glass] really did get wiped out the way so many verses seemed to say.
Tell: “verses seemed to say”
When it suits his need, “the Bible is hard” excuse comes into play. God's word tricked him. This is the problem with non-spirit-led inspired preaching. Private interpretation runs amuck.
@ 47:00 Right up until I found key verses, I had never seen.
I laughed out loud. Verses he had never seen? Yet, he found them? Are you kidding, Dave?
Flashback Part 402 – October 25, 2022
@ 1:29:01 But, I know the Bible pretty well…I can practically recite the Book of Revelation and whole swaths of the prophets in my sleep. But I don't even have to be awake, and I know them. I can just do that.
Flashback Part 3 – November 28, 2015
@ 48:40 I’ve been studying God’s word for almost 50 years. And I’ve studied prophecy (I know this) like no man who’s ever lived.
Flashback Part 180 – June 16, 2019
@ 1:17:17 These are mysteries. Nobody understood any of this…I mean, I feel like I could write a new King James Bible better…
It is hard to believe this is the same guy. Oh, how the mighty have fallen.
Tell “verses I had never seen”
It is hard to know whether this is a self-insulating delusion or an intentional lie. You cannot be sure with Dave. If pets were allowed at Headquarters, he could claim the dog ate that page of his Bible.
Tell “I found key verses”
Look at how his efforts pay off. WE thought, but I found. He was not concerned with giving God any credit for the discovery that changed everything about the Kingdom plan that spared 5.2 billion people from eternal death. The work of one man did that.
How exactly did he find the key verses? The naked Bible elves snuck into Dave’s bedroom in the middle of the night to leave new shoes on the bench and then sprinkled a few new verses into his Bible on the way out the window.
While in the midst of reversing his grievous error, Dave could not help but get defensive about anticipated enemies throwing rotten cabbage at his face.
@ 47:10 Now, the mockers might say, “This is taking too long.” And dudn’t look like it ends well for them. Permanently. There are people who fall and never rise again. They’re cut through to the head. They’re just committed idolaters...they die root and branch. You know that. Haters of the Lord.
David C. Pack is warning the members of RCG here. He ties it into prophecy a sentence later, but his original target is everyone looking right at him. His point is loud and clear:
Mock me, and you will die forever.
This is a self-preservation kneejerk reaction he cannot contain. How prickly does one have to be to remind people about eternal damnation while defending himself against potential critics?
David C. Pack:
Supremely Arrogant. Supremely Insecure.™
As with many things Dave, “taking too long” is not the issue. “Getting it right” is. Which he cannot seem to do. Nor will he ever be able to do. The man is permanently disqualified.
@ 50:50 Now, I’ve wrestled terribly. Terribly. I mean, I'm a shepherd. The hardest thing I had to deal with, and I ‘pologize (in a way) because I’ve been gone different places that there’re so many verses that talk about God’s wrath on certain people. They fall and never rise again.
Tell: “I ‘pologize in a way”
Therapists and body language experts would have a better analysis when someone cannot say an entire word as a defense mechanism. The fact Dave could not bring himself to clearly say “apologize” is significant when you compound it with the defusing qualifier “in a way.”
There is also a notable pause between “I” and “’pologize” as if to subconsciously create separation. The looking down. The fiddling. The quiet hesitation. This indicates that this is neither a sincere apology nor even considered a complete one from the mouth that spoke it.
After teaching members of RCG wrongly that 5.2 billion people will die forever in August and their own family and friends may fall victim to this, this is as remorseful as the man can be. I hope the brethren still attending The Restored Church of God noticed this.
David C. Pack shows people who and what he is.
This ‘pology with excuses is followed by a quick reminder of who should be feared.
@ 51:08 Acts 3:23, you know. Those who refuse to obey {me} Elijah are destroyed from among the people. They’re destroyed…it looks conclusive. And for some, it is.
Refuse to obey David C. Pack, and you will be destroyed forever. It is a point worth making twice.
Dave manages to squeak out another admission.
@ 1:12:34 So, I had that wrong.
This is a big step out into the light for him. “I,” not “we.” “Wrong,” not “misunderstood.” This is the bare minimum unworthy of a gold star on his chart.
It is unwise to present drastic, sweeping changes as drastic, sweeping changes. Nudge. Sprinkle. Meander. Drop a hint. Nudge. Sprinkle. Meander. Drop a hint. After a half-hour of warm-up, he was limber enough to cut loose.
@ 1:13:20 If your children hafta go through certain in things, well then, then they do. But they're not out of God's great salvation game.If you wanna put it that way.
Finally. 33 minutes into his doctrinal reconstruction, Dave acknowledges that the brethren have a personal stake in this understanding. The only thing I can think of as to why he did not lead with that 73 minutes ago is that it would have made him look bad. He had to ease the brethren into reversing his errors they had believed five days before.
During Part 439, David C. Pack eventually defused the panic some members had over losing their loved ones to eternal death in a few months. Showing what kind of heart this shepherd has, he humbled himself in front of the whole church.
I ‘pologize in a way. So, I had that wrong.
That is the extent of his contrition.
David C. Pack, the Pastor General of The Restored Church of God, is uninterested and incapable of coming close to perceiving this concept:
Brethren, I am so very sorry for putting some of you through an emotional rollercoaster the past five days. I over-read and misapplied verses to mean what they never said. I needlessly troubled you, and I apologize. I can understand that it must have been a sore trial as you considered the horrific fate of your family. I deeply regret the heartache and turmoil I am directly responsible for. Please forgive me for filtering God’s pure word through my corrupted lens of private interpretation. Once again, my arrogance has gotten the better of me. And it hurt you in the process. That is all on me.
Please also forgive me for instructing you to get on your knees before God to thank Him for the murder of others. That is far removed from what the Bible and our Savior Jesus Christ instruct. I am deeply ashamed of the foolish words I spoke, disregarding how they may affect you. And a very special "I'm sorry" to those in RCG who have recently lost someone close. I did not consider for a single moment how my ignorant ranting might compound your grief by telling you to be thankful for their passing.
To think I said all of these things while speaking on God’s authority and in His Name fills me with such a tremendous shame that I cannot bear to look any of you in the eye.
I will never do any of that ever again. You have my solemn promise as a man. I hope that as your Pastor General if I ever violate any of my promises to you before God, I will be held accountable for every word that falls from my mouth. The men around me have a duty to address this because God is their ultimate authority, not me. As brethren, God also empowers you to take action against false teachers in your midst.
If I have lost your confidence in me and proven myself to be a blaspheming liar, all of you have a biblical responsibility to treat me as such. I am sorry. Please forgive me.
David C. Pack will never utter such words. It is not in his nature to have empathy. It is not in his nature to humble himself before others. He is incapable of admitting fault in any sincere way without doubling up on excuses, deflection, and blame.
That is the Pastor General of The Restored Church of God.
It is now okay to go back to not being thankful for death and murder.
