Are We
the Scoffers of I Peter 3 and Are We In Big Trouble?
Every church pastor I have ever met or heard on the radio pulls
out the "Scoffer Card" when times get tough. The local Baptist
churches around Greenville must be experiencing a lot flack these days from the
youth and from people who come and go through their congregations because they
all are giving sermons on this scoffing and persecution for their
views. They deserve it as they refuse to update themselves and think it's
1945. I think these guys meet every Monday morning and pick the theme on
radio of the week because they all speak of it using the same scriptures all
week long. Scoffing at religion and religious leaders was not
invented by WCG and the splinter explosion that came from
it. They did perfect it however providing endless reasons for scoffers
to scoff.
Most theologians now feel that I and
ll Peter were not written by the Gospel Peter and in fact, each book was
probably written by two different men 70-90 and as late as 112 AD. These
are books written in the name of Peter but in excellent Greek using the Greek
OT which most feel any real Galilean Peter would never do nor could he.
He was just a fisherman after all. It is pseudopigrapha or a false
writing written to address the great disappointment of still no show
Jesus.
In the WCG/Splinter experience, we have been given an never ending
parade of self appointed prophets, priests, witnesses, messengers,
watchers and Apostles that make their living off the concept of
"soon," "just around the corner," "by Feast
time," "by Pentecost" , "By 2016" and of course,
the New Testament gives them all the terminology they need to promote the soon
of the Second Coming. However the modern day splinters and all of
fundamentalist Christianity are having exactly the same problems today with the
no show Jesus as the early churches did back when those scriptures actually
applied to them. It is humorous to me that 2000 years later, a minister
can still quote the ancient texts as if they were just written for today and no
one questions this.
In reality, NONE of the NT soon and shortly statements are for us.
It was for them and it failed to deliver. Duality and types were invented
to solve this problem and keep it all going low these thousands of years later.
Of course early Christians scoffed at the ministry . They
were the ones telling everyone "things which must SHORTLY come
to pass." That "the hour NOW IS!" That "the day
is FAR SPENT" and "Little Children, it is the LAST HOUR."
Of course it wasn't. The Apostle Paul spent his thirty year career
telling everyone that he would be among the "we who are alive and
remain." He fully expected Jesus to return in his time and only near
the end when he got old did he wake up and smell the coffee.. Of course he had
also taught others to not marry, not date and send it in so he brewed his own
scoffers as did they all. Paul exited the scene in classic
"I" "me" and "my" style with his "I
have fought the good fight, I have kept the faith..therefore there is laid up
for ME......which I shall receive." Etc. I'm not sure Paul
actually kept the faith. He kept his faith and his version of that faith
but it seems "All those in Asia have turned aside from me..." had
another version in mind. I bet Paul called them scoffers.
It is not scoffing to notice something does not happen as
presented. Ron Weinland was never subtle in his views of who he thought
he was and the message he thought he had to bring. Dave Pack is not
subtle in this either nor is Gerald Flurry. They'd draw the scoffer out
of most critically thinking human beings. What they say is simply
foolishness and fantasy made up in their heads. Flurry sees himself in
Malachi, Pack in Haggai and Weinland in Revelation . Ron
evidently still doesn't see himself in prison but I am sure he thinks this is
the time for his prison epistles just like the Apostle Paul whose teachings he
rarely taught or even understands.
II Peter was written by someone to address the now 2000 year old
problem of "where is this Second Coming that YOU say is
SOON?" How soon is soon to you guys. What kinda
soon are we talking about here because I am actually giving a lot to you
guys for "a short work," as you quote to us often and have put
relationships on hold because of your "3-5 years, maybe 10, 15 at
the most, 25 max..." carrot dangling.
Let's take a quick look at II Peter and see whose right.
Scoffers or Apostles? Let's also notice that there is truly nothing
new under the sun when it comes to making an apologetic for the obvious.
The write of II Peter is going to sound awfully familiar to the WCG experience.
II Peter 3:1 This is now, beloved, the second letter I am writing to you in which I am stirring up your sincere mind by way of reminder, 2 that you should remember the words spoken beforehand by the holy prophets and the commandment of the Lord and Savior spoken by your apostles.
In other words, you still should listen to us on these matters.
The author does not bother to tell them which commandment "of the
Lord" he is thinking of but whatever it was it was really their local
Apostles who will interpret for them. It sounds to me like a little too
much critical and not so cooperative thinking was going on and there had to be
a lid slammed down on it before the pot boiled over.
3 Know this first of all, that in the last days mockers will come with their mocking, following after their own lusts, 4 and saying, “Where is the promise of His coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all continues just as it was from the beginning of creation.”
This is the first time mockers and scoffers make their way onto
the scenes . Too much time had passed since Jesus ascended and promised
to come back. A good 50 years at least. John Kennedy died 50
years ago to give you some context. Now this "Peter" connects
the idea of scoffing and mocking to lust. Isn't that always the
case. "The reason you want to mock and scoff or believe in good
science done well is because you want to disobey God and do what you want to
do." Noooooo... there is no connection between these two
concepts but it's nice to assign some devious motive to their simple
observation that soon does not really seem to be soon. It makes the
Apostle feel better probably to not think they are just making a correct
observation. The comment in verse 4 is a 100% true statement.
People were dying who were sold on the idea that they would only be changed in
a moment and a twinkling of an eye and not see death as other men. It was
messing them up. Whatever signs that generation used to prove to
themselves they were in the last times were just going on and on. The
Romans wouldn't get lost, seemed more powerful than ever and you can't even get
near Jerusalem anymore if you're a Jew.
5 For when they maintain this, it escapes their notice that by the word of God the heavens existed long ago and the earth was formed out of water and by water, 6 through which the world at that time was destroyed, being flooded with water. 7 But the present heavens and earth by His word are being reserved for fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.
When and Apostle says "they maintain" he really
means "they stubbornly hold on to this observation..."
This shows he was up against some deadly serious observations and criticism for
all the soon and shortly stuff of the past few decades. And of
course, anyone with a clear mind and eyes to see would too. Whatever
"soon" and "shortly" meant to the scoffers, it was
obviously not the same kind of "soon" and "shortly' of the
ministry, as we shall see. Sound familiar?
God is giving us more time
The wisdom of man is
foolishness with God
There is a way
that seeeeeeems right to a man....but it ends in death
My ways are not your
ways....
and in this case...
God does not count time
like you do and days are not really days stupid...
Frankly, I don't understand the writers point in what he says
"escapes their notice..." His water/fire story
leads nowhere that I can tell. Of course the earth was not born out of
water in reality. Water came later in the birth of the earth but that's
science and not theology. Since in the Noah story God promises no more
big water events, he goes on to say it will be by fire but again, is not any
answer to the question of "my Lord delays his coming."
I can't resist saying to this one day is as a thousand years and a
thousand years as a day defense. And you know this? Is this just
what you make up when the Apostle also knows the coming is delayed but he can't
admit it? Did he ever season his previous time is short and Jesus is
coming soon statements with this little bit of made up apologetic. No he
did not because he didn't need it then when he thought soon was still soon in
real time. But now we go into spirit time and magical thinking.
Next comes the double speak that "the Lord is not slow in the way humans
think of slow," when in fact this is classic slow and not soon or shortly
either. I suppose he could have said that "Soon is not soon as you
think of it as soon and shortly is a longer shortly than men come up
with." No matter, the Deity can't lose so the apologetic has to be
woven for the brethren. We have seen Ron Weinland do a lot of re weaving
of predictions along the way when it was obvious he was wrong wrong
wrong.. I can still hear him chiding the church for
misunderstanding what he said and they did not listen. It was
"spiiiiirrrrritual !...stupid." Actually this is what the
author of Peter is doing as well. Same ploy and same inability to just
say that he was wrong. But he will trade "soon" and
"shortly" for another word that is just as good as motivator to not
scoff or mock.
We also see the author of Peter uses the same "God is giving
us more time," excuse and again something that was never brought up about
God wanting all to be saved etc...until he had to make an excuse for God and
the slowness of soon and shortly. I'm surprised the author did not say
that God was giving "you brethren" more time to get your wicked act
together and "make it into the kingdom."
10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and its works will be burned up.
So now the Second Coming is not soon or shortly, it is going to be
sneaky and you better watch out, you better not cry, you better not pout ,
I'm telling you why....Jesus Christ is coming suddenly. The thief might
come neither soon or shortly, but he comes sneaky and suddenly. Brilliant
move! Suddenly is like soon or shortly but unknowable. Great
compromise of the error! Members and those who notice that none of
what the ministry predicts comes true are turned into scoffers and
mockers and the ministry gets to reset and redefine the clock.
Alas the heavens have not passed in 2000 years nor the elements
destroyed with intense heat. All these people are dust and the beat goes
on.
So, those who notice that neither Church , Pastor or even Bible
predictions came true in any sense humans would think they would is not
scoffing or mocking. It is noticing the obvious and speaking up.
Ministers and churches get scoffed at and mocked when they keep up the charade,
change the rules as they go and blame the listeners for not listening. We
scoff at those who take offices and titles unending to themselves and preach
themselves way too much.
The author of Peter simply could not bring himself to say "I
don't know," or "We were wrong." Modern day seers
would choke on those words I expect. He had to mystify and redefine the
words and then blame those who noticed calling them scoffers and
mockers. And so it still is today.
No....those who notice what the ministers, apostles, witnesses ,
watchers and non prophets say which is either silly, stupid or insane are not
in one bit of trouble with the Deity. They don't scoff or mock. Ok
well they do but it is the church and the leaders that provide the ammo.
We just notice it....I suppose it could be viewed as actively working out one's
own salvation and not being snookered.
contact Dennis at: denniscdiehl@AOL.com
