Dave Pack: Jesus Is Returning Multiple Times

The creature that Dave Pack calls "jesus" apparently is going come back multiple times in the next few years.  I guess each of Dave's split personalities has do dream up a separate "jesus" for his latest incarnation of the creature he has invented.

Lacking knowledge of Christ’s multiple comings, many assert He comes and immediately vanquishes all enemies, establishing His Kingdom. Revelation appears to say this, but consider I Corinthians 15:25, which shows something entirely different, saying Christ “must reign, till He has put all enemies under His feet.” Those who would suggest He arrives, reigns for a split second, then annihilates all enemies are simply ignoring this verse, with many others.

But the problem gets even bigger.

The gospel writer Luke records a curious exchange between Jesus and the Pharisees: “When He was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, He answered…The kingdom of God comes not with observation: neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you” (17:20-21). “Within you” is correctly translated “in your midst”—so Christ meant that just His presence can signal the Kingdom’s presence. He was not saying God’s Kingdom was within leaders He called hypocrites, serpents and fools! The Pharisees demanded knowledge of the Kingdom’s arrival because they anticipated a Messiah who would sweep the Romans away and set up a world government—with themselves administering it! It is evident that Jesus had nothing like that in mind. Notice the Kingdom was to arrive “without observation.” The meaning of the Greek is without “inspection” or “ocular evidence.” Ocular relates to the eyes. So Christ said God’s Kingdom arrives in some unseen way.

This coming is distinct from both Haggai and Revelation, which plainly describe all nations looking for—and AT!—Christ’s appearing. Jesus was not confused about His own coming, and would have to make sure we were not either. He does this.

Understand. Christ’s initial coming has nothing to do with the false Protestant belief that Christ secretly “raptures” His servants to heaven. Nowhere does God’s Word say Jesus takes Christians back to heaven with Him. (Many verses prove this.) You will see plain passages showing He establishes God’s Kingdom on Earth, using servants that are here. This will become clear.

Bob Thiel, Chief Hypocrite and Self Appointed Cult Leader Attacks Gavin Rumney

Earlier today Gavin Rumney made an announcement that he was discontinuing the Ambassador Watch blog, that he has faithfully run for many years documenting the dissolution of the Church of God into hundreds and hundreds of irrelevant little splinter personality groups.

A Farewell to Arms

This is likely, highly likely, to be the final Ambassador Watch or Otagosh posting. Those who know me as more than a cantankerous blogger also know that I've been fighting, without great success, a serious health situation. In the time I have left there are clearly other priorities, and I commend Gary's blog as a great place to keep "in the loop".

I guess I want to say that there's very little I regret. If I've horribly offended anyone unjustly, I apologize. There are a lot of good people in the COGs, battling on, as we all do, according to our best insights. The blogs will stay up, for what they're worth, even if only curiosity value.

Special thanks to everyone who has engaged in creative conversation here.

Gavin.

It did not take long before Almost Arrested Doubly Cursed Elisha Elijah Joshua Amos Bob Thiel of the improperly named "continuing" Church of God, had to start running off at the mouth.  Almost Arrested Thiel is not happy that Gavin is leaving his blog up for archival purposes.  Ambassador Watch documented the rapid decline of the Worldwide Church of God into hundreds and hundreds of irrelevant and meaningless little personality cults.

Gavin was particularly disturbed by the outright lies and deception of Bob Thiel and his self justification of his self appointment to be a splinter cult leader, with fake diploma mill Phd's and all.  If Thiel had been forthright and honest about what his degrees are in, the name of the granting "university" and his theological education, then maybe Gavin and the rest of us would have cut him some slack.  Thiel however does not care.  It is easier to deceive 1,997 Africans than it is to be honest, forthright and accountable.

The self-appointed false minister Thiel writes:

Gavin Rumney, the webmaster at the Ambassador Watch site (an anti-Church of God website), has once again decided to quit his site:

It is too bad that his blog will stay up. As far as Gary’s blog, that is a reference to the anti-COG site Banned by HWA.

Anyway, Gavin, in my view, had a lot more integrity years ago. But after he broke a promise he had made to me, and I called him out on it, he turned more towards hate. His promotion of the Banned by HWAsite is a further example of that.

Anyway, Gavin Rumney has posted enough untrue comments/innuendoes about me and various others that he should pull down what he has. 

Thiel is a liar.  Gavin has posted nothing untrue about the self-appointed false prophet.  That is a bitter pill for the apostate liar to handle.

Bitter Bob then slings this zinger:

Gavin Rumney as well as others running anti-COG sites have hated true Christians without cause.

I can state as 100% fact that Bob Thiel is NOT a "true" Christian.  He is NOT ordained by God, was never set apart by God to start a church, did not receive visions of God in a dream and is a professional Judizer, just like James Malm.

True Christians in any church are never bothered by accusations or questions about their beliefs or faith.  Only self appointed little men who set themselves up as grandiose men of authority or as dictators of their little groups get perturbed and angry when others question their motives and teachings.

Bob Thiel rejects everything about what Jesus did and accomplished.  He would rather bastardize and worship the law more than follow Jesus. Regardless of  how much Thiel may write or say the name Jesus or Christ, the man does not know him at all!  That is a FACT!

Thiel continues with this broad lying accusation:

I wish those who support the anti-COG websites would realize that those truly in the Church of God are not treating them improperly.  Yet, they hate us.

NO ONE on ANY of the anti-COG sites hates the members in the various groups.  What we do HATE are the lairs and graceless pissants that make the lives of their members a living hell.  These men, like YOU Bob Thiel, preach hearsay, promote false doctrines, and have self appointed themselves are church "leaders."  No matter now much you wave your thick Bible in front of your crooked bookcases or flowery curtains, it does not make you a man of God.  Your message is one of enslavement and not of grace.  Any message without Jesus is worthless and thusly your message is worthless and dangerous to honest seekers.

Almost Arrested Elijah Thiel then writes:

The Bible warns against being an accuser of the brethren (Revelation 12:10), and bearers of false witness (Exodus 20:16).

You are NOT "brethren" to any that are followers of Jesus.  You are exactly what Jesus warned his followers  about:

Matthew 7:15-20The Message (MSG)

15-20 “Be wary of false preachers who smile a lot, dripping with practiced sincerity. Chances are they are out to rip you off some way or other. Don’t be impressed with charisma; look for character. Who preachers are is the main thing, not what they say. A genuine leader will never exploit your emotions or your pocketbook. These diseased trees with their bad apples are going to be chopped down and burned. 

Even more damning are these words of Jesus:

Matthew 24:4-8The Message (MSG)

4-8 Jesus said, “Watch out for doomsday deceivers. Many leaders are going to show up with forged identities, claiming, ‘I am Christ, the Messiah.’ They will deceive a lot of people. When reports come in of wars and rumored wars, keep your head and don’t panic. This is routine history; this is no sign of the end. Nation will fight nation and ruler fight ruler, over and over. Famines and earthquakes will occur in various places. This is nothing compared to what is coming. 

Preaching endless drivel about end time prophecy, Petra , Mayans, Catholic myths and other outright lies makes you one of the "doomsday deceivers."

Then Thiel makes another false accusation:

Sadly, because many involved with the anti-COG websites do not have a real love of the truth, they do not seem to care about their false assertions and conclusions.

Actually we do have a love for the truth, but NOT for the lies of Armstrongism and its many different bastardizations.  Truth cannot be found in the improperly named "continuing" Church of God.

Elisha Elijah Thiel ends with this:

The anti-COG websites often cause offense to ones getting interested in the truth.  Jesus said:

6 Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to sin, it would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were drowned in the depth of the sea. 7 Woe to the world because of offenses! For offenses must come, but woe to that man by whom the offense comes! (Matthew 18:6-7)

Gavin Rumney and several others at the anti-COG websites remain in my prayers.

Hallelujah that those that might be interested in a COG splinter cult might actually be turned away by our blogs and web sites!  If so, then we have actually served a purpose!  One life saved is one less life immersed in the quagmire of pharisaical legalistic bullshit that make up the current harlots daughters of the mother church.

Please see the following sites that expose the lies of Bob Thiel and the other false ministers of the Church of God:

As Bereans Did
Ambassador Watch
Ambassador Files
The Painful Truth
Exit and Support
False Prophet Ron Weinland
The Plain Truth About Malachi's Message and That Prophet 
Roderick C Meredith Crimes
Washed in Grace
Living Armstrongism

Pack's Rants: Going Along to Get Along?

What Will Be the Cost of Silence on Dave's Rants?

"15) Next, for those who will see the value of how to pursue spiritual matters, there is this: After fervently seeking God about it, not one reason the prophecy is off this year ever emerged in the minds of even one of our 16 Headquarters ministers! I (we) have NEVER prayed about, studied over, meditated on, fasted about and counseled with other ministers regarding a subject more than this one—in fact no other subject is even close!"

Dave Pack

Why Unification Now  (2013)

Dave Pack and Gomosexuals

Worldly things will carry over into the kingdom.  How does an RCG member deal with heroin addicts, smokers and gomosexuals?  Gomosexuals?

But you have all kinds of problems.…He’s been an addict…What about gluttons? Porn addicts? Smokers? Sex perverts? What are you going to do with whole LGBTQ crowd? Lesbians…They spell…h with a g…homosexual. Strangely, they spell “gomosexual,” like “gay.” I don’t know how they get “gay, maybe it’s…I’m kidding…The LHBTQ…I will not call them “gay,” they lead miserablelives…bisexual and transsexual people.

What the hell is wrong with Dave Pack?

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Dave Pack: RCG Members Don't Have to Listen To The Opinions of Angels

Dave gives his members encouragement that there will be lots of "public servants" in the kingdom to help them...angels.  Since angels are highly intelligent and have opinions, it is up to the RCG members to decide if they want to listen to them or reject their opinions.

One encouraging thing is you have a huge number of public servants, who are angels…but hey, you’re judging them, they’re not judging you. That doesn’t mean they couldn’t have an opinion, if God has built into their minds the ability to offer one, and they can certainly carry out things. You don’t have to carry them out. So you’re not standing alone, and maybe it depends on how much character you brought to the table. Because, remember, skills and experience are not transferable. Character—to God—holy, righteous, perfect character—including how much you serve—is absolutely transferable. That is the one thing He cannot give you…but knowledge of how to do everything that you need to do, you cannot possibly bring to Him…or wisdom or these other gifts.

Dave Pack: RCG Members Will Throw Grenades and Blow Up Everything At Start of Kingdom

Dave's plan is to destroy everything at the start of the kingdom.  All cities, houses, businesses, etc will be wiped off the earth.  People will apparently live under their fig trees till they rebuild their homes in the design Dave approves.

Oh, and every so often I need to remember to say this, don’t I? Day 1, there better be a plan, because…You go in and just blow up everything man does…You just stand back and throw the biggest hand grenade you can…it is going to blow it all up. They’ll be ready to follow you, but what are you going to do—right now—on all of this at the same time?

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Dave Pack on Language, City Sizes, Food, Distribution and Agriculture in His Kingdom to Come

Superfantabulous Dave has the answer to everything.  Never mind the fact he can't control his church, employees or members.  It is one troubling event after another and he expects to know how to do things right in the kingdom to come.  Heaven help us all!  Oh wait, we won't be there as he will have gleefully exterminated us all.

How will language barriers be addressed, if they exist? My guess is they won’t exist—that Zephaniah 3:9 is really a picture of restoring the world to one language in the kingdom, starting at Zion. But boy, if you have language barriers…let me just sit down and talk about all of this, because you have to do it in hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of languages. There are 850 languages…900 languages in some single African nations…And most of us probably didn’t know, unless we studied the subject, there are that many languages on Earth…where they can’t understand each other in a single country, or it’s as different as somebody who speaks Spanish trying to understand someone who speak English—who comes here, when neither can speak the other.

What size cities exist? How does the world get to the size cities that exist? How does God feel about cities? There are cities in the Bible. In 1776, five percent of all Americans lived in cities; 95 percent were rural. By the time James Garfield was president in 1881, it was 50/50. One hundred and five years passed—50/50. By 1976, it was flipped from 1776. Ninety-five percent of all people lived in cities, five percent outside. Then how will you relocate them? Anybody getting a migraine? Now relax and just realize…it is on you. [laughter] Get it right! Move fast and knock them all out at once, and then everything will be fine.

All these decisions…

FOOD…Local, regional or mass distribution? And what about its quality—and quality right away? Are water battles just to be thrown at people, and Cheetos and whatever else just to keep them satisfied? “I’m overwhelmed!…Here, have some Pringles”…[laughter] you know…“I’ll get to you tomorrow. I don’t care.” “Here’s ice cream for you”…“Here’s spinach for you…Sorry. [laughter] You didn’t pray this morning.” “But it is not even organic spinach.” You see? What happens to people who are desperate for food right now?

What other distribution systems will be used? Which leads you to energy, as well, but we will come to that. And shipping…the number of ships plying the ocean is tens of thousands of ships are moving through the oceans at any given moment in time—many tens of thousands of ships. How will shipping be handled? What kind of ships? And hygiene, and who works on them, and all kinds of other stuff. What stays within a nation? What needs to be moved to other nations? Which leads you to trading.

How is agriculture going to be carried out? Let’s just stay with a real simple plan—animals or machines? And if you are going back to 95/5 [country/city]…I don’t know that God will…then how are you going to get 90 percent of that 95 back into the country? Where are the houses waiting for them and so forth?

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Dave Pack: Was Ambassador College a blueprint for education in the kingdom?

God have mercy upon the people in the kindgom to come if the educational system is patterned after Ambassador College and Imperials Schools.  Just send everyone to the lake of fire and get it all over with!

Dave Pack writes:

Education…When would the new system start? When do kids go to school? Do they go to school? How is education carried out? All the questions that you might have about that subject…Four-year-olds? Five-year-olds?…Is there college? What kind of college? Is there post-graduate work? By the way, where is that in the Old Testament? And if it is not in the Old Testament, does that mean you cannot do it? Wouldn’t happen. Is Ambassador College a blueprint for now, or now and later after some fashion?

Dave Pack: Atheists Will Be Long Gone When We Get To My Zion

Dave and his crew will be the most educated eternal beings ever to exist.  Due to Dave's superfantabulous "work" he is doing in Wadsworth, there will be no atheists when his "zion" arrives.  They will be long gone because Dave and his crew will either exterminate them or convert them to the ways of Dave.

What about education, at all levels? We have already introduced that in a certain way—all levels. Good-bye evolution! WHAM—day 1. Of course, you really won’t have to worry about it too much in one regard, because the God of the Bible is here, and everybody who is an atheist will have figured out there is a God. Now, did He allow things to evolve or not, is a secondary question…but there is a God. As soon as this Great Work continues…this awesome, powerful Work continues in a big way…and I explained it last week…it will not be long before there will not be one atheist on Earth—waythis side of Zion. All you have to do is look at the things that are scheduled to happen to God’s Church, very soon, and you know the atheists are probably long gone by the time we are on Zion.

Dave Pack: "Wow! This is Great!" You will be "judges" and "pastors"

Dave Pack has discovered his ultimate wet dream.   Being a judge and a pastor in the kingdom!  Oh wait, he does that now!  Dave tells his members that as a pastor they will be able to exterminate those those that are "not fit to live."

Who carries out enforcement of everything? What about the prison system? Okay, we found out certain kings are going to prison. Who else? Where are the prisons? Who builds the prisons? What kinds of prisons? How long do you stay in prison? Is it only for the kings?…But all the other things that are related to that.

Oh…While you are doing the judging, who is doing the pastoring? For that matter, is there a difference? If you are a priest and a minister, a godlike judge, are you all those things? Because now you have people coming along and want to be converted. Wow! This is great. You have other people that are compliant, and you have some other people that are not fit to live.

Dave Pack: You Will Forget About Your Spouses, Children and Relatives

Dave wants his few remaining followers to understand that if their unconverted spouses, kids, relatives and friends are wicked they will be destroyed.  Then Dave's encourages his followers that they will have their minds wiped clear of who those people were.  They will forever forget about them.  They will forget about their family and friends just like they will be required to forget about the sins of those who are under their rod's of iron.  What a wonderful world this will be!

For instance, the destruction of the wicked. We have always talked about it—you’re not going to want to think about your children or your parents or your husband or your wife or your relatives if God had to destroy them. So you probably will have the ability over knowledge, even to eject from your mind…We have always believed and understood this…Remember God’s ability to forget sin. We will have to forget, certainly, our own sins; the sins of others if need be. You’re going to have to be able to forget other people’s sins once they have repented, and you will probably be able to forget the loss of loved ones who are not in the kingdom of God.

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Dave Pack: As Soon As You Become God You Will Receive "Awesome" Knowledge!

When Dave's followers become God they will receive instantaneous knowledge that will far exceed the wisdom of Solomon.  They will have so much knowledge that they will "blow" Solomon away with their wisdom.  Church of God members have always been a special lot.

Immediately when Solomon was given wisdom, he could make a decision based on facts in front of him. That’s different. It’s as different as the gift of wisdom, the word of wisdom, which is interesting, and the word of knowledge, as opposed to the gift of wisdom and the gift of knowledge. So it is a gift that involves the word. Logos, by the way. It’s the exact same word, no pun intended. It’s the exact same word in the Greek…of what Christ is called. So it’s the “word”—the logos of knowledge, gnōsis. In effect, you will be given immediately an awesome—an awesome—amount of knowledge on the spot, or you won’t get one hour into your first day…No matter how godlike your power, no matter what miracles you have, no matter your decision-making where you have wisdom that blowsSolomon away, you can turn and heal somebody here, or turn and resurrect somebody over there, but if you don’t have the gift of the word of knowledge, you will get nowhere as a judge.

Dave Pack: Church members will be second class "eternal" beings

Dave just might been for a surprise!

Dave expects his group will become eternal beings, though his members will be second rate eternal beings.  They never will be like God, though they are Gods.  Gods who are eternal beings who will live for infinity, but they are second class eternals.  All except for Dave of course.  Since he gets to personally shake the hand lo Jesus as he enters the new temple onto Temple mount in a few years, he will be in a special class of chosen people who will sit at the right hand of Jesus.  Jesus needs Dave.  How would Jesus rule without Dave at his side?  Dave is filled with such superfantabulous knowledge that he is needed to help JC run the world.

First of all, understand, the moment you are born into the Family of God, that is when you entered the Family of God…but what are you made of? You are made of eternal Holy Spirit. God changes the Spirit of God that is in you; changes your body, and you are made…we’ll use this term…you are made of eternal “stuff.” You’re not made of immortal stuff; you are made of a different kind of spirit than angels. You’re composed of something that is eternal. It has no beginning and no end, even though you did. Paul is telling the Romans…In a way, you are immortal, because you started like angels, but you immediately went to a spirit that is eternal. What does that mean? Why is that important? What does it have to do with a word of knowledge? Well…just about everything.

Once you are born into the family of God, you, literally, tap into eternal knowledge. Eternal knowledge—all that God has ever been. In other words, when you are changed, you’re not given…from a warehouse shelf…a spirit body, either similar to angels or just some other kind of spirit, to replace the physical one you have. The Holy Spirit in you is a down payment, an earnest, of a full body made of the Holy Spirit, which is eternal and brings with it everything that God is.

We won’t have the same authority that He does, but we will be children, like Him…As we have often explained; Mr. Armstrong used to say this in his own words…as much as your children are like you. They are not exactly you and they will never exceed you while you are still alive. They will always have to honor you; you will not honor them, as you are their parents. But they go on to be people who look pretty much like you, at least a combination of the parents, and so forth. You understand that. So we will be a little different in that way.

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