Dave wants his few remaining followers to understand that if their unconverted spouses, kids, relatives and friends are wicked they will be destroyed. Then Dave's encourages his followers that they will have their minds wiped clear of who those people were. They will forever forget about them. They will forget about their family and friends just like they will be required to forget about the sins of those who are under their rod's of iron. What a wonderful world this will be!
For instance, the destruction of the wicked. We have always talked about it—you’re not going to want to think about your children or your parents or your husband or your wife or your relatives if God had to destroy them. So you probably will have the ability over knowledge, even to eject from your mind…We have always believed and understood this…Remember God’s ability to forget sin. We will have to forget, certainly, our own sins; the sins of others if need be. You’re going to have to be able to forget other people’s sins once they have repented, and you will probably be able to forget the loss of loved ones who are not in the kingdom of God.SaveSave
Nothing of a religious nature can be proven in the real world. All religious notions are taken on faith and faith is defined in Hebrews 11 even as the assurance that what we hope for is actually so and it based on absolutely no evidence. NOTHING Dave has said in all these screeds is provable or true. Not one bit of it. It is something to be taken on faith as explained by Dave, who is full of himself and it.
In time, the facts always overcome faith . "Faith" is nothing to be proud of. It is the great motivator and guilt trip provider of the uncritically thinking, unbalanced and emotionally deficient person who has not the inner strength to think their own thoughts, come to their own conclusions and live their own lives without the fear, guilt and shame heaped upon them by religiously deluded charlatans like Dave Pack.
No Christ or Jesus is about to return. No Dominions are about to be set up or trombones and trumpets about to be blown. Sitting in Dave's church will soon prove to have been an incredible waste of life time and resources for those who still do it. Dave is going to run out of explanations and his fantastic BS sooner or later. The downward spiral will play out very badly for all concerned.
Dennis, what you label faith is in fact mysticism. Whilst definitions differ some what, generally, mysticism is a combination of magic thinking and a belief that the world is (micro) controlled by the various gods.
I think the both of you are self-deluded into thinking there is no God. Perhaps you just like sinning and don't want to strive with God's help to overcome.
9.23 PM. If you are referring to my 8.59PM comment, you have jumped to the wrong conclusion. All I said is that Dennis and the worlds definition of faith is incorrect. My bible says 'prove all things,' and 'you shall know them by their fruits (the scientific method).' So faith cannot be believing in what cannot be proved. Dennis's 'come to their own conclusions' is in harmony with 'prove all things.' The slivers disagree, claiming members should blindly believe their ministers instead, which they deceitfully label 'obeying God,' or submitting to Gods government.' Putting nice sounding labels on things, doesn't change the reality.
Life is intellectual independence. Subcontracting this to others is self annihilation. And yes, I believe in God, British-Israelis and the tribulation.
Not everyone who disagrees with the gangster ministers is a atheist/tare/etc.
I can't believe Dave has actually released his sermon transcripts for the sane to read. Of course, he believes that once people read this they will run to him and RCG. And, if they don't, they have been warned and will be put to death by him.
I realize now Dennis the only reason you are here is to push your Athiestic beliefs and trying so hard to justify them but without any success. You say the same things over and over again, and at times in great length as you try so hard to tell others there is no God or that there will be no return of Jesus the Christ, and all without any proof. All I can say is I hope your rejection of God is not the kind that will keep you out of his kingdom, and that one day you will come to see the real truth that you are blind to at this time.
Anon Nov. 27, at 2:06 AM, you mention that Dennis expounds his positions "without any proof." If so, the best way to counter his arguments is to provide proof of your your own.
2.06 AM you seem to imply death bed repentance. There is no such thing. God gives us only so much time on this planet to qualify for eternal life, by building the mind of God. Come deathbed time, it is far too late. The opportunity has come and gone. Into the lake of fire you go. If you play, you pay!
Those are the rules of the game. Like the laws of physics and chemistry, they cannot be changed. Yes, I know that people with their wet dream and wishful thinking, will disagree. But they are wrong. What God has created, He has created.
"Death bed repentance" certainly does work. What do you think happened with the thief on the cross? COG members have listened to the lies of church ministers for so long that they will believe anything. They want an angry god who will punish those that did not "repent" as much as they have to. That is why Jesus used the example of the employer paying those that arrived early in the day the same as those that came to work for the last hour. Armstrongites need a pissy god to make them real elite and special.
Nov. 27 anons at 2:06 AM and at 7:41 AM: How can we know which one of you is right? Could both of you be wrong? Help us figure this out. Show us some evidence that can be recognized by any rational person.
"...What do you think happened with the thief on the cross?"
he will be in the 2nd resurrection, which is paradise....
the 2nd resurrection is for people like him, and Dennis....
and Dave Pack....
8.02 AM Dream on.
Luke_13:24 "Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall NOT BE ABLE." No deathbed repentance here. Join Dennis in the inferno.
8.10 AM the comma is put in the wrong place in the translation. It should read "I tell you (the comma should not be here) today, you will be in paradise with me." Even if the thief fails to qualify for the kingdom, God could give him a taste of the kingdom, before throwing him into the lake of fire. Promise fulfilled.
People should not be bible cherry picking here, but looking at all the relevant scriptures.
Dave is really good about getting his followers to forget about their spouses! Especially when they don't agree with his insanity!
DD:"Sitting in Dave's church will soon prove to have been an incredible waste of life time and resources for those who still do it."
Amen, to that!
DCP:"They will forget about their family and friends just like they will be required to forget about the sins of those who are under their rod's of iron. What a wonderful world this will be!"
How does God remember when to forgive!
Easy, Dave. You start talking about my family, and I'm going to have to fart!
Retired Prof 7:02... The proof has been available for centuries, you either accept it or reject it, to some it is as plain as day, to those who reject it are blind to it and have to make things up to try and justify their blindness but they fail miserably.
Nov. 28 at 1:53 AM, I hope you don't treat the optically blind the way you treat the spiritually blind. Here's how it might go.
Person Blind from Birth: "You say there's an aurora borealis tonight? Tell me about it."
1:53 AM: "The aurora has been appearing sporadically at this latitude for centuries. You either accept it or reject it. To sighted people it is as plain as day. People like you who reject it are blind to it and have to make things up to try and justify their blindness, but they fail miserably."
However true it may be that nobody can adequately explain to a person blind from birth what an aurora looks like, it is unseemly to denigrate the person's limitations. You could show consideration by accepting that someone without sight navigates the world and interacts with it in a different way from the way you do.
There is an important difference, though. A large majority of people on earth possess optical vision and could understand a description of an aurora even if they had never seen one. In the spiritual realm by contrast, you are in the minority. The overwhelming majority of earthlings are spiritually blind to the proofs of your god. They have no idea what you're talking about when you coyly proclaim "The proof has been available for centuries" and would have no insight into it and no reason to accept it even if you were gracious enough to tell them what it was.
The subject of how difficult it is to explain certain things to the blind--either spiritually or optically--reminds me of an anecdote about Albert Einstein. The following version comes from *Science Lens*, https://sciencelens.co.nz/2012/09/25/math-storytelling-day/.
Apparently, shortly after his appointment at Princeton, Einstein was invited to a tea in his honour. At the event, the excited hostess introduced the great man and asked if he could perhaps, in a few words, explain to the guests the theory of relativity.
Not missing a beat, he rose to his feet and shared the story of a walk he had with a blind friend. It was a warm day, so at one point Einstein said to his friend, “I could really do with a glass of milk!”
His blind friend asked, “I know what a glass is, but what is milk?”, to which Einstein replied, “Why, milk is a white fluid.”
“Now I know what fluid is,” the blind man responded, “but what is white?”
“Oh, white is the colour of a swan’s feathers.”
“Feathers, I know what they are, but what is a swan?”
“A swan is a bird with a crooked neck.”
“I know what a neck is, but what do you mean by crooked?”
Einstein realised the discussion could go on for a while, so instead he seized his blind friend’s arm, straightened it, and said “There, now your arm is straight.” He then bent his friend’s arm at the elbow, and said, “And now, your arm is crooked.”
To which his blind friend happily exclaimed, “Ah! Now I understand what milk is!”
At this point, Einstein politely smiled at his audience, and sat down.
That was a good one Retired Prof! Synesthesia and the mapping across of the sensory modalities. How else do you think we discovered radar, microwaves, and the entire electromagnetic spectrum. Prayer?
Anonymous, I think you forgot about Hellen Keller.
"2.06 AM you seem to imply death bed repentance. There is no such thing. God gives us only so much time on this planet to qualify for eternal life, by building the mind of God. Come deathbed time, it is far too late. The opportunity has come and gone. Into the lake of fire you go. If you play, you pay!"
Uhh... What about the thief on the cross?
"God gives us only so much time on this planet to qualify for eternal life"
So much for 'not of works, lest any man should boast'.
Rocco, not by works means that there is no law in the universe that says you can earn eternal life by your deeds. Rather eternal life is a gift from God. But He will not give you this gift unless you have built a minimum level of character since He has a policy of NO MORE DEMONS or SATANS in his coming kingdom. Capish?
Nov. 29 at 7:14 AM, what you're saying is, salvation is a "free gift." That's the term merchandisers use to sweeten the deal so potential buyers will pay for their products.
To receive a gift you do not have to pay anything. To receive something free, you do not have to pay anything. But nobody is going to hand over a "free gift" unless you give them some money.
The way you describe the deal, (you have to build "a minimum level of character") implies that a person must qualify by meeting entrance requirements--licensure, certification, something like that. Such a requirement is reasonable for membership in a profession or an exclusive club, but even if there is no entry fee, such a membership is only technically free.
For many religious sects, including especially the COGs, the deal is actually pretty crass. "Give up only one day a week of your time plus ten percent or more of your gross income, you get salvation COMPLETELY FREE!"
In fact, the more I think about it, the crasser the deal looks. It's not a mercantile transaction, it's extortion. After all, what is salvation? It means your god is going to relent and not incinerate you.
Douglas Becker is onto something with his "Mafia" epithet for Armstrong's daughter churches. Like a don in La Cosa Nostra, Armstrong's god is giving human beings, the pinnacle of his creation, an offer they can't refuse. They must do what the ministers claim their god says or his enforcers will set their feet in a tub of concrete and drop them into the bay/lake of fire.
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